[OFFICIAL] Lion King Mafia - Town Scarred as Mafia Wins!

[Pikanchion]

Samlen was innocent unfortunately but that's no reason to give up on the other two. DDS has been far more active and I'm not terribly suspicious of him, but DJ does look like is trying to coast through the game. I don't necessarily agree with Flores by voting him just for that, but I will
Vote DJ for that AND from the line of reasoning from Day 2.

"just for that" why do i even bother to put cases together when they only attract animosity and ppl dont even bother to read them, i mean if you had bother to read my posts and not just skim through them for deffend skoff, whom for all i know might be some kind of linked role with you, i went on and on about why i though the VT serial claiming was fishy but whatever, since everyone but mandy doesnt seem to care when i am even called a bitch for pointing the obvious i seriously dont feel like repeating myself anymore, if you want to know in more details why my vote is where it is feel free to actually check it up, i have lost all hope anyway on this underwhelming return to the mafia community getting any better

Well if you want people to consider other points you have made it is helpful to link them (or at least mention them, especially when it comes to voting), as people generally have fairly short memories for who exactly made which point at what time. I sympathise with you on this point but when all you say is

for now ill vote dj because his lack of interest in the game is getting on my nerves, ill switch if a better lead pop up

it is unsurprising that earlier posts such as this or this are forgotten and/or misattributed in others' minds.

[mandalorian2298]

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Your entire theory is hinged on the silly position that the head of the Mafia can't vote until Mufasa dies. Here are the issues:
1. I am already known to be slow to cast votes, people here have actually commented on that in the past. Therefore I am matching my own known style in this case.
2. In essentially anyone other than me, not voting at all would be completely out of place and put them at incredible risk; you are essentially saying that Nag/ga7 put post restrictions on two of their members for funsies and jeopardised the entire team just for theme. Absolutely no way would ga7 allow a game where mafia have so little chance of winning. Ridic

Underlined part: Of course not! That would be absurd!
My theory hinges on a silly position that CULT LEADER can't vote until Mufasa dies.

Something has been stinking to me about this setup ever since we hung Kwan. I didn't explore it further, at the time, because I was so intent on maintaining the Town's momentum and not letting Sam slide of the hook.
12 Townies vs 4 Scumsters (especially with many a power role on the Town side) is a textbook balanced game. So, if Nag (who a great mod) messed with this by weakening Mafia, then he surely had to make additional changes in order to rebalance the game. The setup that I think we are dealing with is:

12 Townies/non-malicious Third Parties (like Survivors and such) (possibly weakened by mechanisms that make it likely that Mufasa, the most powerful role, dies first; possibly with other weaknesses )

3 Hyena Mafia (weakened by Idiot; Banzai (Tracker) and Shenzi (Godfather))

1 Cult Leader (Scar, weakened by a PR)

Don't let your judgement be influenced by the fact that Town has been incredibly efficient during Day 1, this is a hard setup for Town too. Skoff's PR may look like a big weakness, but it took me until the Night 2 to figure out that she even had any, which means that she has, barring any lucky role-blocking, recruited 2 flunkies by now. This in turn means that, even after Skoff's lynch, Cult is still going to outnumber Mafia going into Day 4.

P.S. 1. "Slow to cast votes" is a play style. "Not casting even 1 vote during a 3 weeks long Day 1" is a PR. Again, if this is your "play style" link another game where you cast no votes during the whole Day 1.

2. Nag/Ga7, in their wisdom, put PR weakness on you specifically to make game fairer for Mafia.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Samlen was innocent unfortunately but that's no reason to give up on the other two. DDS has been far more active and I'm not terribly suspicious of him, but DJ does look like is trying to coast through the game. I don't necessarily agree with Flores by voting him just for that, but I will
Vote DJ for that AND from the line of reasoning from Day 2.

"just for that" why do i even bother to put cases together when they only attract animosity and ppl dont even bother to read them, i mean if you had bother to read my posts and not just skim through them for deffend skoff, whom for all i know might be some kind of linked role with you, i went on and on about why i though the VT serial claiming was fishy but whatever, since everyone but mandy doesnt seem to care when i am even called a bitch for pointing the obvious i seriously dont feel like repeating myself anymore, if you want to know in more details why my vote is where it is feel free to actually check it up, i have lost all hope anyway on this underwhelming return to the mafia community getting any better

@Flores - I get your frustration. Really, I do. When you get folks like mitch (sorry), who have been on here longer than myself and is just...Out there, and no one bats an eye because of it, it just makes me a little baffled about the current state of things. Just have to work with what you're given and hope it turns out for the best.

@MM - For what reasons are you not agreeing with Flores? You're just stating that you don't without any substance behind it. Elaborate more, show us why you're in a disagreement instead of making a blank statement.

In any event...My vote is stuck between the Skoffin and DJ argument...Get to that in a moment but for right now, DJ...
It's a 16 player game and thus far we've only had the 3 VT's claim, myself included. One other claim was made (Kwan) who turned out to be a hybrid Jester/Scum. It's not entirely safe to assume that DJ is saying who he is, because he's openly admitted to lurking...And his lack of participation damn well near warrants a replacement...But I think his claim might be legit. Sam's case should be proof enough that there are VT's, again, myself included, so it's not far fetched to think that DJ isn't one either. For right now, I'd rather try and coax out a better lynch candidate.

show

Your entire theory is hinged on the silly position that the head of the Mafia can't vote until Mufasa dies. Here are the issues:
1. I am already known to be slow to cast votes, people here have actually commented on that in the past. Therefore I am matching my own known style in this case.
2. In essentially anyone other than me, not voting at all would be completely out of place and put them at incredible risk; you are essentially saying that Nag/ga7 put post restrictions on two of their members for funsies and jeopardised the entire team just for theme. Absolutely no way would ga7 allow a game where mafia have so little chance of winning. Ridic

Underlined part: Of course not! That would be absurd!
My theory hinges on a silly position that CULT LEADER can't vote until Mufasa dies.

Something has been stinking to me about this setup ever since we hung Kwan. I didn't explore it further, at the time, because I was so intent on maintaining the Town's momentum and not letting Sam slide of the hook.
12 Townies vs 4 Scumsters (especially with many a power role on the Town side) is a textbook balanced game. So, if Nag (who a great mod) messed with this by weakening Mafia, then he surely had to make additional changes in order to rebalance the game. The setup that I think we are dealing with is:

12 Townies/non-malicious Third Parties (like Survivors and such) (possibly weakened by mechanisms that make it likely that Mufasa, the most powerful role, dies first; possibly with other weaknesses )

3 Hyena Mafia (weakened by Idiot; Banzai (Tracker) and Shenzi (Godfather))

1 Cult Leader (Scar, weakened by a PR)

Don't let your judgement be influenced by the fact that Town has been incredibly efficient during Day 1, this is a hard setup for Town too. Skoff's PR may look like a big weakness, but it took me until the Night 2 to figure out that she even had any, which means that she has, barring any lucky role-blocking, recruited 2 flunkies by now. This in turn means that, even after Skoff's lynch, Cult is still going to outnumber Mafia going into Day 4.

P.S. 1. "Slow to cast votes" is a play style. "Not casting even 1 vote during a 3 weeks long Day 1" is a PR. Again, if this is your "play style" link another game where you cast no votes during the whole Day 1.

2. Nag/Ga7, in their wisdom, put PR weakness on you specifically to make game fairer for Mafia.

Bear in mind, Skoffin was ill during that time I believe. I think that's when Alien was underway, and I believe it was around the same time she got sick. RL takes precedence over this any day of the week.
However, case in point, she didn't mention that at all in arguing with you and saying that she is slow to vote. I'll agree that she tends to vote at last minute causing a massive amount of pressure, but she has ALWAYS voted. Earns my FOS.

As for the theory, it's plausible to have a third party neut, but your theory feels like it is grasping for straws. Anyone who appears the most town tends to be scum, and thus far we've been lead by you to condemn Sam, and now I feel like you're trying to get one more wagon started on Skoff because of what looks like a PR (VR)? These are massive tells in someones gameplay, and I applaud the effort that you did point out Skoffins gameplay, but these past couple game days it's been "Gah! I'm right, you're wrong and if you don't vote for X, I'll FOS/Vote you and hopefully get a wagon!" I can't agree with your line of thinking...Like...Ever.

If someone wants to add more on both of these subjects, by all means, floor is yours.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Hold the phone, I should have delved deeper into Mandy's theory...

Scar as a cult leader...Who works against the Hyenas? The same ones he employs and enforces his rule (essentially)? Wouldn't make sense if were following this theme to a T. And doesn't anyone else find it odd that Mufasa dies day 2? Perhaps Dakky was on a time limit and it was basically a scene kill. We didn't have any other deaths aside from that, so it'd be hard to prove, but I believe a role blocker or a doc save played a part into night 1, and that Mufasa was meant to die either way.
Remember this as well, Scar takes over the pack after Simba escapes. No one in the pride knew he was alive until he returned and forced Scar to reveal the truth (and also blaming the Hyenas, who in turn, kill him for it). Either way, Scar as a cult leader wouldn't make much sense imo. I'm sticking with a 4 mafia set up. Maybe we do have a neut but for Scar to be one...Yeah, no.

I'll give one more example why I don't believe Scar is cult.

"SIMBAAAA HELP ME" he shouted

There was no response

"Anyone? Bueller?"

Instead a cackle was heard.

"Come here, you annoying pest of a bird" growled Scar

Day scenes should be just as important to look at, this is why I think Day 2 was a story kill rather than a scum kill.

[mandalorian2298]

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Underlined part: Of course not! That would be absurd!
My theory hinges on a silly position that CULT LEADER can't vote until Mufasa dies.

Something has been stinking to me about this setup ever since we hung Kwan. I didn't explore it further, at the time, because I was so intent on maintaining the Town's momentum and not letting Sam slide of the hook.
12 Townies vs 4 Scumsters (especially with many a power role on the Town side) is a textbook balanced game. So, if Nag (who a great mod) messed with this by weakening Mafia, then he surely had to make additional changes in order to rebalance the game. The setup that I think we are dealing with is:

12 Townies/non-malicious Third Parties (like Survivors and such) (possibly weakened by mechanisms that make it likely that Mufasa, the most powerful role, dies first; possibly with other weaknesses )

3 Hyena Mafia (weakened by Idiot; Banzai (Tracker) and Shenzi (Godfather))

1 Cult Leader (Scar, weakened by a PR)

Don't let your judgement be influenced by the fact that Town has been incredibly efficient during Day 1, this is a hard setup for Town too. Skoff's PR may look like a big weakness, but it took me until the Night 2 to figure out that she even had any, which means that she has, barring any lucky role-blocking, recruited 2 flunkies by now. This in turn means that, even after Skoff's lynch, Cult is still going to outnumber Mafia going into Day 4.

P.S. 1. "Slow to cast votes" is a play style. "Not casting even 1 vote during a 3 weeks long Day 1" is a PR. Again, if this is your "play style" link another game where you cast no votes during the whole Day 1.

2. Nag/Ga7, in their wisdom, put PR weakness on you specifically to make game fairer for Mafia.

Bear in mind, Skoffin was ill during that time I believe. I think that's when Alien was underway, and I believe it was around the same time she got sick. RL takes precedence over this any day of the week.
However, case in point, she didn't mention that at all in arguing with you and saying that she is slow to vote. I'll agree that she tends to vote at last minute causing a massive amount of pressure, but she has ALWAYS voted. Earns my FOS.

As for the theory, it's plausible to have a third party neut, but your theory feels like it is grasping for straws. Anyone who appears the most town tends to be scum, and thus far we've been lead by you to condemn Sam, and now I feel like you're trying to get one more wagon started on Skoff because of what looks like a PR (VR)? These are massive tells in someones gameplay, and I applaud the effort that you did point out Skoffins gameplay, but these past couple game days it's been "Gah! I'm right, you're wrong and if you don't vote for X, I'll FOS/Vote you and hopefully get a wagon!" I can't agree with your line of thinking...Like...Ever.

If someone wants to add more on both of these subjects, by all means, floor is yours.

Skoffin being ill would account for a lack of posts but, since she is an awesome person, she still managed to post more then most players, she just didn't vote. The reason she didn't mention it here is because it is information that is no one's business, since it didn't interfere with her ability to play the game.

Possible third party neutrals have been included in my theory for the sake of completeness but whether there are any or there is 12 straight up Townies is of little relevance.

On the subject of Sam: We took a shot and we missed. All else being the same, I would have advocated his lynch again. We didn't lynch him for no reason, we lynched him because he was giving of scum tells. Sometimes that's result of player being scum other times it's the result of player playing badly.

We can't know who got which role from Nag, so that we could guarantee result. The only thing we can know is what people post (and don't post) and who dies over Nights and, based on these things that we do know, those of us who are actually playing this game try to infer the complete picture.
This means accepting that there will be times when I make mistakes and times when I look like an idiot. I'm OK with this. I am trying to play well and win, not to look well and be liked by players who don't know what "playing well" means.

Other players, like you, are unwilling to make this effort.

"Gah! I'm right, you're wrong and if you don't vote for X, I'll FOS/Vote you and hopefully get a wagon!" I can't agree with your line of thinking...Like...Ever.

Firstly, I don't remember saying that I would vote or FOS people solely for disagreeing with any of the bandwagons that I advocated.

Secondly, if my play so far has made you take personal dislike to me, as long as we are not at LYLO and your vote is the tie breaker, I couldn't care less.
I have signed up for a game of Mafia and my first and pretty much only goal is to make every effort to win it. I am aware that, in order to win, many players in this game aim to defeat me and I don't take it personally. Likewise, when I post, I post with the intention of winning and the only emotion that I allow to be reflected in my posts is the will to win.

As for the reason why I have been aggressive (though not in the way in which you presented my posts) is because aggressiveness gets results. It provokes scum and it makes players pay attention to my arguments. I care enough about winning too be aggressive. If not I would stay at the side lines and advocate No Lynches.

[DirtyDishSoap]

1. Skoffin being ill would account for a lack of posts but, since she is an awesome person, she still managed to post more then most players, she just didn't vote. The reason she didn't mention it here is because it is information that is no one's business, since it didn't interfere with her ability to play the game.

2. Possible third party neutrals have been included in my theory for the sake of completeness but whether there are any or there is 12 straight up Townies is of little relevance.

3. On the subject of Sam: We took a shot and we missed. All else being the same, I would have advocated his lynch again. We didn't lynch him for no reason, we lynched him because he was giving of scum tells. Sometimes that's result of player being scum other times it's the result of player playing badly.

4. We can't know who got which role from Nag, so that we could guarantee result. The only thing we can know is what people post (and don't post) and who dies over Nights and, based on these things that we do know, those of us who are actually playing this game try to infer the complete picture.
This means accepting that there will be times when I make mistakes and times when I look like an idiot. I'm OK with this. I am trying to play well and win, not to look well and be liked by players who don't know what "playing well" means.

Other players, like you, are unwilling to make this effort.

5.

"Gah! I'm right, you're wrong and if you don't vote for X, I'll FOS/Vote you and hopefully get a wagon!" I can't agree with your line of thinking...Like...Ever.

Firstly, I don't remember saying that I would vote or FOS people solely for disagreeing with any of the bandwagons that I advocated.

Secondly, if my play so far has made you take personal dislike to me, as long as we are not at LYLO and your vote is the tie breaker, I couldn't care less.
I have signed up for a game of Mafia and my first and pretty much only goal is to make every effort to win it. I am aware that, in order to win, many players in this game aim to defeat me and I don't take it personally. Likewise, when I post, I post with the intention of winning and the only emotion that I allow to be reflected in my posts is the will to win.

As for the reason why I have been aggressive (though not in the way in which you presented my posts) is because aggressiveness gets results. It provokes scum and it makes players pay attention to my arguments. I care enough about winning too be aggressive. If not I would stay at the side lines and advocate No Lynches.

1. Sure, agreed, but it was established nonetheless that she was ill.

2. Yet earlier you're saying your theory hinges on there being a cult leader. So which is of relevance? You're not doing much in helping your theory other than a soft finger at Skoffin for Days 1.

3. Yet there was nothing less to argue of him being a VT, what more did you want him to add? I'll concede that he defended himself poorly but it's hard to construct a defense when the prosecution is "don't care". This is one of the few reasons why I've been against you and your badgering of players for a different playstyle. You didn't want him lynched for scum tells, you wanted him lynched for his playstyle. Don't bullshit a bullshitter, I've mastered this in the military. Lol.

4. Yes, clearly, I haven't been making an effort whatsoever. I should be whimsically running about grabbing a brain fart possible and just run with it. Consider this as me playing.

5. I don't like you personally as a player. You personally attack players and are a hypocrite. You attack myself and Sam for having a different stance because "it's playing badly" and/or "it's really poor play and you're both bad", but you want to soothe Mitches ego, someone who's basically the scum tell of a century? You're as much part of the problem as letting Mitch run around as he has been as anyone else here. I don't have nothing against the guy either, but by your logic, we should be lynching Mitch every. single. game. Until he learns how to actually not appear insane.

Sure you're a decent dude in RL, but you come across as a know-it-all ass on here.

[mandalorian2298]

Missed your second post in the role. I'll address just this part:

Hold the phone, I should have delved deeper into Mandy's theory...

Scar as a cult leader...Who works against the Hyenas? The same ones he employs and enforces his rule (essentially)? Wouldn't make sense if were following this theme to a T.

The same ones that kill him in the end, yes. Scar uses the Hyenas as a mean to gain power but there is no true loyalty between them.

Now back to responding to your latest post:

1. Which in no way helps to explain why she failed to vote even once. People who care about the game and not about where the theory came from would want that explained, especially since it's something that NEVER happens, unless there is a PR or the play is totally inactive to the point of needing replacement.

2. By "Third party neutrals" I am referring to those roles that I have previously labeled
"non-malicious Third Parties". Obviously, Cult Leader is a malicious Third Party.

3. Sam is lynch. I, benga and 5 other people thought that the chances of him being scum are good enough to lynch him. He turned to be Town. Next case.

4. Instead of hunting for scum, you are trying to win an argument with me.

If you want to test the FACTS, that's a fine a productive thing to do. Prove me wrong. Show me another game where a Skoffin was active during Day 1 but failed to cast a vote. She has played in tens of games on CC, so if this is a part of the playing style, I'll unvote her.

If you want to engage in a rhetorical battle just for the sake of making me wrong - I'm a little busy scum hunting right now.

5. You are being too charitable - I am often a know-it-all ass in RL, too.

As for Mitch, I wasn't aware that I had been soothing his ego, save for when I tried to intervene in the fight between him and Flores, because I consider them both to be nice people and I didn't want the game to go toxic for no reason.

Other then that, I consider Mitch's style to be random since he is obviously more interested in the social rather then the competitive element of Mafia. Were this the old days when we had the luxury of picking and choosing the best players for the competitive games, Mitch would not be among the players that I would choose for such a game (no offense meant, just an honest skill/effort assessment). However, the world has moved on and Mitch being a both active and he is generally nice enough guy (save for his attack on Flores, for which he expressed remorse) and this makes him at least average quality player at this time and forum.
Since his goofing off isn't directed towards advocating that other people adopt his unproductive style of play, I consider Mitch a lower priority target, which is the only competitive advantage of his style.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Missed your second post in the role. I'll address just this part:

Hold the phone, I should have delved deeper into Mandy's theory...

Scar as a cult leader...Who works against the Hyenas? The same ones he employs and enforces his rule (essentially)? Wouldn't make sense if were following this theme to a T.

The same ones that kill him in the end, yes. Scar uses the Hyenas as a mean to gain power but there is no true loyalty between them.

Now back to responding to your latest post:

1. Which in no way helps to explain why she failed to vote even once. People who care about the game and not about where the theory came from would want that explained, especially since it's something that NEVER happens, unless there is a PR or the play is totally inactive to the point of needing replacement.

2. By "Third party neutrals" I am referring to those roles that I have previously labeled
"non-malicious Third Parties". Obviously, Cult Leader is a malicious Third Party.

3. Sam is lynch. I, benga and 5 other people thought that the chances of him being scum are good enough to lynch him. He turned to be Town. Next case.

4. Instead of hunting for scum, you are trying to win an argument with me.

If you want to test the FACTS, that's a fine a productive thing to do. Prove me wrong. Show me another game where a Skoffin was active during Day 1 but failed to cast a vote. She has played in tens of games on CC, so if this is a part of the playing style, I'll unvote her.

If you want to engage in a rhetorical battle just for the sake of making me wrong - I'm a little busy scum hunting right now.

5. You are being too charitable - I am often a know-it-all ass in RL, too.

As for Mitch, I wasn't aware that I had been soothing his ego, save for when I tried to intervene in the fight between him and Flores, because I consider them both to be nice people and I didn't want the game to go toxic for no reason.

Other then that, I consider Mitch's style to be random since he is obviously more interested in the social rather then the competitive element of Mafia. Were this the old days when we had the luxury of picking and choosing the best players for the competitive games, Mitch would not be among the players that I would choose for such a game (no offense meant, just an honest skill/effort assessment). However, the world has moved on and Mitch being a both active and he is generally nice enough guy (save for his attack on Flores, for which he expressed remorse) and this makes him at least average quality player at this time and forum.
Since his goofing off isn't directed towards advocating that other people adopt his unproductive style of play, I consider Mitch a lower priority target, which is the only competitive advantage of his style.

1. I'm going with the latter because there were incredible lull points to where we nearly wagoned her in the earlier mentioned game. There's a chance she missed the opportunity but I'll concede the point that it is unlike her to not vote. Point 1 for mandy.

2. Misread that, I was reading a full 12 town instead of a 3rd party possibility relevancy. I disagree with the 3rd party theory, or at least Scar being it, mainly because the Hyenas and Scar were closer together almost throughout the entirety of the film. Think of Scar as the Godfather and the hyenas as cronies to be disregarded.

3. K.

4. I also tried arguing with you about the Sam case as well and look where that got us?

That's exactly what I'm trying to do, I want a definitive case, I want to be absolutely certain that I can stand behind it. Thus far we're given a theory that I don't find entirely plausible, and Skoffins PR/VR which is half explained. I can back the Skoffin thing to a degree but I can't find cult in this or Scar leading Cult for that matter.

5. My charity is open, 24/7. Need only apply.

You did sooth his ego in a sense. But Flores raises a good point. Why are we letting someone who basically comes across as just insane? I fell for this Mitch trap my first game with him and basically got him killed for it. My bad, his fault. It's a 100% true statement when people say he hurts town more than he helps. He basically causes confusion, and could potentially be a fatal vote (given how he's voted, he's random). I like Mafia, I like playing it, and apparently, I have a different approach from most, but when we clear one guy for just being "that guy" but we condemn others for ridiculous junk, it just feels like a fucking joke. How is anyone going to take that seriously?
If we're playing this for the social time, sure, I'm down, just let me know. But don't tell me this is meant to be competitive when clearly there's maybe 4 to 5 of us who are actually attempting to play this while the others are just slunking along.

[Skoffin]

@Flores - I get your frustration. Really, I do. When you get folks like mitch (sorry), who have been on here longer than myself and is just...Out there, and no one bats an eye because of it, it just makes me a little baffled about the current state of things. Just have to work with what you're given and hope it turns out for the best.

I can understand where Flores is coming from on some points; I felt similar in how I was treated in Pokemon mafia afterall, but she has seemed a smidge combative herself. But still she's cool beans and I'd like to see more of her rather than less. As for Mitch, ohhhmyyyyy gurl agreed on points. I don't really think he's interested in changing his playstyle or improving and it does get frustrating to see him playing as jester every game and not getting any repercussions for it as it seems he can just sail through as scum that way, which is why I think the only way to get someone to try changing their play is to somehow make a consequence to not adapting. In any case I just won't be joining games he's in for now.

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Your entire theory is hinged on the silly position that the head of the Mafia can't vote until Mufasa dies. Here are the issues:
1. I am already known to be slow to cast votes, people here have actually commented on that in the past. Therefore I am matching my own known style in this case.
2. In essentially anyone other than me, not voting at all would be completely out of place and put them at incredible risk; you are essentially saying that Nag/ga7 put post restrictions on two of their members for funsies and jeopardised the entire team just for theme. Absolutely no way would ga7 allow a game where mafia have so little chance of winning. Ridic

Underlined part: Of course not! That would be absurd!
My theory hinges on a silly position that CULT LEADER can't vote until Mufasa dies.

Something has been stinking to me about this setup ever since we hung Kwan. I didn't explore it further, at the time, because I was so intent on maintaining the Town's momentum and not letting Sam slide of the hook.
12 Townies vs 4 Scumsters (especially with many a power role on the Town side) is a textbook balanced game. So, if Nag (who a great mod) messed with this by weakening Mafia, then he surely had to make additional changes in order to rebalance the game. The setup that I think we are dealing with is:

12 Townies/non-malicious Third Parties (like Survivors and such) (possibly weakened by mechanisms that make it likely that Mufasa, the most powerful role, dies first; possibly with other weaknesses )

3 Hyena Mafia (weakened by Idiot; Banzai (Tracker) and Shenzi (Godfather))

1 Cult Leader (Scar, weakened by a PR)

Don't let your judgement be influenced by the fact that Town has been incredibly efficient during Day 1, this is a hard setup for Town too. Skoff's PR may look like a big weakness, but it took me until the Night 2 to figure out that she even had any, which means that she has, barring any lucky role-blocking, recruited 2 flunkies by now. This in turn means that, even after Skoff's lynch, Cult is still going to outnumber Mafia going into Day 4.

P.S. 1. "Slow to cast votes" is a play style. "Not casting even 1 vote during a 3 weeks long Day 1" is a PR. Again, if this is your "play style" link another game where you cast no votes during the whole Day 1.

2. Nag/Ga7, in their wisdom, put PR weakness on you specifically to make game fairer for Mafia.

Mandy. Mate. You know very well that I do not drink, so you know full well that I am at a disadvantage here as surely one would need a good dose of alcohol to follow along with this idea of yours.

To cover this and subsequent posts about;
The theory that Scar has a PR of not being able to vote until Mufasa dies is terrible for a multitude of reasons.

* In anyone other than me this PR would be noticed immediately. Imagine if someone like Mitch or even Chu were selected as Scar. Captain Votes Every Minute and Lord Vote Mandy not casting a vote day one would be an instant query on what is going on with them and thus would doom Scar Mafia and certainly Scar cult. For this role idea to work the mod/s would have to purposefully pick who they would give the role to and remove any random generation for it, which is not something they would do. Can you tell me with a straight face that you would NOT be suspicious af if Chu did not vote you instantly D1?
This wouldn't make it fairer for mafia team to weaken the cult team in such a way, it virtually guarantees cult loses depending on who was given the role.

* This theory hinges entirely on Mufasa having a pre-destined time to die, a notion I'm not even entirely on board with as it seems a bit odd to arrange a game where one specific player is doomed to die night one regardless of anything they do. I don't think the mods would create a situation where one player gets screwed over in the game just because of a dice role before the game even starts.

* As it's been brought up; I didn't mention the health stuff again as I prefer not to use outside the game excuses unless I can't explain things in any other way. There was no way to note my absence previously without mentioning RL, whereas in this case I have other reasons to say Mandy's theory is as silly looking as a top hatted giraffe.

Which in no way helps to explain why she failed to vote even once. People who care about the game and not about where the theory came from would want that explained, especially since it's something that NEVER happens, unless there is a PR or the play is totally inactive to the point of needing replacement.

At the time all that was happening I wasn't really that concerned with the game which is my bad, but now I'm ready to rek u scrub.

* As to your 'link a gaaaaame or else!' point, I do believe I didn't vote D1 in civ mafia either.

[mandalorian2298]

My next long ass post shall have to wait, probably until tomorrow. The only thing that can't wait is:

@Skoffin In Civ Mafia you voted for Samlen on Day 1. Also, possibly, Chu, since it wasn't bold I don't know if it was tallied. Nice try though.

BTW, I almost never drink that whole theory came to me naturally.

[Djfireside]

I wont even defend myself again the votes on me cause I have earned them and that is about all I can cover on it. I have been trying to get back and things just have been working against me.

To attempt to get back into things, I would doubt the Cult leader piece of Scar based on lore and scene as Scar was noted as being the killer.

It is an interesting though that mandy has and as strange as it seems it does paint an interesting picture however I have a fear on the mechanics as I would rather believe that their role style would change since now they are the king they get extra power or had a different power to find mufasa but I have trouble believing an imposed mute. I do note what you are saying as I was reading through again and I like the logic and the method that you are taking with it. If true that would be an awesome find but in reading I also noticed that you seem to be seeking out Skoff for one thing or another and I havent been able to put my finger on that either but at least figured id note it in case someone else can.

I thought I had something on DDS and in turn MM but both failed to pan out so I will stop there and go back to the drawing board to try to at least provide one useful thing.

[Minister Masket]

Samlen was innocent unfortunately but that's no reason to give up on the other two. DDS has been far more active and I'm not terribly suspicious of him, but DJ does look like is trying to coast through the game. I don't necessarily agree with Flores by voting him just for that, but I will
Vote DJ for that AND from the line of reasoning from Day 2.

"just for that" why do i even bother to put cases together when they only attract animosity and ppl dont even bother to read them, i mean if you had bother to read my posts and not just skim through them for deffend skoff, whom for all i know might be some kind of linked role with you, i went on and on about why i though the VT serial claiming was fishy but whatever, since everyone but mandy doesnt seem to care when i am even called a bitch for pointing the obvious i seriously dont feel like repeating myself anymore, if you want to know in more details why my vote is where it is feel free to actually check it up, i have lost all hope anyway on this underwhelming return to the mafia community getting any better

Hmm...can't say I was expecting that kind of a response.
For the record, my post was more geared towards providing a reason for following your vote (cause I got stick for following Mandy's vote last day phase). And not sure what "defending Skoff" is about. All I said was that I think her list of town + scum predictions was near to the mark.
Plus she's a big girl, she can handle herself. No need for my 'defence'.

@MM - For what reasons are you not agreeing with Flores? You're just stating that you don't without any substance behind it. Elaborate more, show us why you're in a disagreement instead of making a blank statement.

Make no mistake, I on the surface disagreed with her motivation, but I agreed with her overall post.
I think putting pressure on DJ is the right way to go at this point, but to me it looked like Flores was just doing it as he is AWOL. Honestly last week was kind of a blur due to me covering for my co-worker, so it's a struggle to remember exactly who was on board with what line of reasoning.
Thankfully he's back now so much easier to re-read.

Time to post- OH WAIT

It is an interesting though that mandy has and as strange as it seems it does paint an interesting picture however I have a fear on the mechanics as I would rather believe that their role style would change since now they are the king they get extra power or had a different power to find mufasa but I have trouble believing an imposed mute. I do note what you are saying as I was reading through again and I like the logic and the method that you are taking with it. If true that would be an awesome find but in reading I also noticed that you seem to be seeking out Skoff for one thing or another and I havent been able to put my finger on that either but at least figured id note it in case someone else can.

I thought I had something on DDS and in turn MM but both failed to pan out so I will stop there and go back to the drawing board to try to at least provide one useful thing.

I'm not sure where this "cult" argument is going tbh. Feels like it's more likely to form rifts between townies rather than peg down scum.
I'd much rather you address directly the argument Flores, I, etc have in that we believe one of the 3 (now 2) Vanilla's are probably lying.
Is that the "something" you have on DDS as he's the other Vanilla? And what's the point hiding anything you've managed to dig up on me?

[FloresDelMal]

ok, even though atm the only joy i am getting from this game is going down the drag race memory lane, i will try to make something out of the lemons that mafia life is throwing at me,maybe a mojito, but thanks DDS for the encouragement and understanding, but i do agree with mandy that your time could be better put to use on hunting scum, rather than antagonizing him, because transforming this game in debate club for 2 is proving to be as unproductive as me pointing out mitch's scum tells, and you are next in the list after DJ

Well if you want people to consider other points you have made it is helpful to link them (or at least mention them, especially when it comes to voting), as people generally have fairly short memories for who exactly made which point at what time. I sympathise with you on this point but when all you say is

for now ill vote dj because his lack of interest in the game is getting on my nerves, ill switch if a better lead pop up

it is unsurprising that earlier posts such as this or this are forgotten and/or misattributed in others' minds.

you do have a point, thanks for that, i did let my frustration do the talking, but i don't think i was fundamentally wrong, i just should have mustered the patience to link my quotes

Now to adress mandy's theory, i do think he has something when concerning the PR, but i am not sure that a PR could automatically equal scum, and then i have trouble seeing scar as anything else but a godfather, i have fosed skoff a couple of times already for different reasons, and i do believe she has been fishy more than once, but from there to be 100% certain she is scum, i dont know, i have some lingering doubts, and for the dynamic of the game i could certainly miss her more than DJ, mitch or DDS so when it comes to her i am more weary of a mislynch, i could like if one of our cops could check her out, if she comes out town, then there is no reason to out yourself as a cop, but if she is scum that could be a great catch, because a smart player like her could do a lot of damage as scum, so for the moment once again ill FOS skoff, because to me it doesnt make any sense that even though she expressed that no lynch hurted town more than anything else, and even though she said that town should always lynch when given the chance, she still didn"t put her vote where her arguments where.

[HotShot53]

ok, even though atm the only joy i am getting from this game is going down the drag race memory lane, i will try to make something out of the lemons that mafia life is throwing at me,maybe a mojito, but thanks DDS for the encouragement and understanding, but i do agree with mandy that your time could be better put to use on hunting scum, rather than antagonizing him, because transforming this game in debate club for 2 is proving to be as unproductive as me pointing out mitch's scum tells, and you are next in the list after DJ

The point is, that for mitch playing like mitch, it's not a real scum tell, because that's how he plays as town. I think he does have his own unique scum tells that come out when he plays as scum, which I haven't seen in this game yet, so that's why I don't favor his lynch. I know it take a few games of playing with him to start to learn his tells; when he first started playing here we lynched him early almost every game, because the way he plays doesn't fit the norm, but he was usually town.

As for Mandy's elaborate theory, I would doubt it is that easy. As others have said, based on the night 2 scene, Scar seems to be part of scum. Whether night 1 was pre-ordained, it is possible that was an automatic kill, and scum didn't get a kill until night 2, after Mufasa was dead. But having a post restriction on someone day 1 when we're usually ready to lynch anyone who is slightly different does seem less likely.

[Fircoal]

You know what Mandy and Flores, you two are right. You're wrong oh so wrong but you're right about something.

I had faith in this mafia community. I did. Sure we may not post the most and sometimes there are luls in activity. I myself have done this myself although I try to post sometimes. But I thought that people at least tried when they could. But honestly nevermind on that.

There was no way that Samlen should have been lynched. Even someone that was braindead should have been able to figure out that he had a high chance of being town compared to someone like DJ who has a high chance of being scum. It's literally like people are just waiting to take things out from the sky and when they don't get it they decide to jump on any random case that they see in front of them. But that's not how mafia is played, and that's not how mafia is won. As town players we have to try to figure out who the mafia is and work to actually get something. Yes sometimes players like DJ make it fall right into our laps but that isn't always going to be the case and expecting that only makes the play more shit.

Hrrrr drrrr there are no vanilla townies is not a case, espeically when it is abundantly clear that there are vanilla townies. All it takes is a little usage of the brain and that should be clear.

I don't fault the likes of Benga and Mandy for making a case. I mean they were wrong and it was pretty clear but that's ok. What I'm more annoyed with is the people who didn't even try to look into the cases that were presented nor did they try to bring up any cases themselves. Rather they just saw that Sam was close to a lynch and the deadline was getting closer and voted him. Which to be is the epitome of lazy and terrible play. Come on. We have time. Actually think things out and use your brains. The more cases we get the better. I know that all of you can do this, so please for the interest of the game, try?


Anyway back to the game:

Vote: DJ

I've already mentioned why I thought so on Day 2. If you want to understand more read Sam and DJ's posts.

* In anyone other than me this PR would be noticed immediately. Imagine if someone like Mitch or even Chu were selected as Scar. Captain Votes Every Minute and Lord Vote Mandy not casting a vote day one would be an instant query on what is going on with them and thus would doom Scar Mafia and certainly Scar cult. For this role idea to work the mod/s would have to purposefully pick who they would give the role to and remove any random generation for it, which is not something they would do. Can you tell me with a straight face that you would NOT be suspicious af if Chu did not vote you instantly D1?

Honestly I'd suspect myself if I didn't vote Mandy D1. That's just something I can't not do.

But really I think DDS and Skoffin make good points. As nice of an idea the mute is I don't think it works in practice. There are too many pitfalls and the scenes we've been getting don't support that.

ok, even though atm the only joy i am getting from this game is going down the drag race memory lane, i will try to make something out of the lemons that mafia life is throwing at me,maybe a mojito, but thanks DDS for the encouragement and understanding, but i do agree with mandy that your time could be better put to use on hunting scum, rather than antagonizing him, because transforming this game in debate club for 2 is proving to be as unproductive as me pointing out mitch's scum tells, and you are next in the list after DJ

The point is, that for mitch playing like mitch, it's not a real scum tell, because that's how he plays as town. I think he does have his own unique scum tells that come out when he plays as scum, which I haven't seen in this game yet, so that's why I don't favor his lynch. I know it take a few games of playing with him to start to learn his tells; when he first started playing here we lynched him early almost every game, because the way he plays doesn't fit the norm, but he was usually town.

the problem is he softclaims all the time. So if I see a softclaim he's probably town, and he's certainly done it in this game. I feel like Mitch isn't that hard to tell what's up with him and that's why I rarely vote for him.

[Skittles!]

I have been lurking but not posting. For some reason I don't have much to say this game, maybe I'm not engaged or the arguments that have been put forth just don't cling enough for me to follow them or want to vote the way certain people want.

Concerning a few things though:

1) mitch as scum is very easy to see, and I'm saying this because he had been scum or third party in games I've modded. He is less wish washy, a bit more argumentative, more willing to throw himself off a cliff to get someone voted.

2) I'm willing to vote DJ because he is playing similarly to how he played in another game where he was scum. But he was AWOL in my game too, so idk if irl stuff has come up or not.

3) I think we should still follow on the VT claims list - DDS and DJ. At this time DJ is way more scummy to me than DDS.

4) I think it's a bit iffy that Flores has been going after skoffin the whole game, slowly trying to build a case against her. Could this be a lead with something?

5) I'm going to have to reread this game because the whole time it's been going on I've been going through a stressful period IRL so have not been able to gather my thoughts as well as I would like.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I don't think we should be putting DJ up on the firing line at this time until we figure out his activity and if it warrants a replacement. He did claim VT and me being the only other one alive, I'm hard pressed to believe the claim for the moment.

[mandalorian2298]

I'm not quoting since I am replying to the posts from this page and there is no reason to believe that someone who skimmed the original is going to read them just because they are in quote.

@DDS

1. Yay! I getz a point!

2. Np, I used a different expression. As for what makes more sense, I think that, in Nag's games at least, mechanics trump faithfulness to the source. In his Godfather mafia, for example, Don Barzini was NOT the Cult Leader of the Barzini Cult.

4. That's fair. While I stand by my persecution of Samlen, I recognize that, in my zeal, I allowed myself to ignore every thing else that had been going on at the time. The whole "Skoffin = Scar" discussion should have taken place on Day 2.

As for your wish for a definitive case, I already voiced my belief that such case is occurs too rarely in the game of Mafia for the Town to build their play on it. It's like playing an RPG and basing your entire game solely on Critical Hits. Sure, CH is great thing when it happens and increasing their likelihood is a smart thing to do, but usually the wast majority of your hits are going to be of a non-Critical variety and it makes sense to find a strategy even if you don't get a CH.

In the spirit of fairness, I admit that my natural inclination leads me closer to the opposite extreme of being very aggressive even when the evidence is scarce. I believe that this is a better strategy because it puts more people under pressure which increases the chance one of those pressured is going to be scum which increases the chances that one of those scum is going to make a mistake and give himself up. I don't believe in certainty but I also don't believe that victory is something that will come to those who wait. Victory has to be earned, to odds need to be improved.

However, if there are flaws in my logic, I appreciate if someone points them out.

5. So kind of you to offer.

Fair point about Mitch. As I said, I am tolerant towards it since I see it as the sign of times, but you are definitely more right if you don't want to stand for it and seek to elevate the overall quality of CC Mafia.

@Skoffin

Reg. "If anyone other them me..." part - The rules don't state that the roles have been given randomly. This is heavy metagaming, f course, but maybe Nag wanted to see if you could get away with taking your strange play style to its extreme.
Also, you got to recruit two Culties, who as a rule are much harder to find then Mobsters. That seems pretty far from "guaranteed Cult loss".

Reg. "This hinges on Mufasa being predestined to die early..." - Not necessarily. Had you gone Mute the entire game through, there are believable claims that you could have came up with, for instance "Deaf Old Elephant" or "Tiny Mouse" (like the one that Scar wants to eat in his first scene. He could be imagined as being to little to be given a vote).

Reg. "Rek...koala...someotherAussienonsensethatnoonebutyouguysunderstands" part - Just name-claim and you are free to rek away. Scrub.

FOS Masket Yesterday, I noticed Masket hovering over this forum without posting throught my discussion with DDS. Today he posts and pointedly avoids mentioning my theory or voicing his opinion.

@Hotshot Scenes don't necessarily reflect the Night actions. That would be a little too easy.

[DirtyDishSoap]

As for your wish for a definitive case, I already voiced my belief that such case is occurs too rarely in the game of Mafia for the Town to build their play on it. It's like playing an RPG and basing your entire game solely on Critical Hits. Sure, CH is great thing when it happens and increasing their likelihood is a smart thing to do, but usually the wast majority of your hits are going to be of a non-Critical variety and it makes sense to find a strategy even if you don't get a CH.

In the spirit of fairness, I admit that my natural inclination leads me closer to the opposite extreme of being very aggressive even when the evidence is scarce. I believe that this is a better strategy because it puts more people under pressure which increases the chance one of those pressured is going to be scum which increases the chances that one of those scum is going to make a mistake and give himself up. I don't believe in certainty but I also don't believe that victory is something that will come to those who wait. Victory has to be earned, to odds need to be improved.

That's the whole point of debating and trying to poke holes in theories. You can't just say, for example: "Nipple twistings cause cancer". Cool, but where are the facts to back it up? I'm trying to, at least, make others think of different alternatives rather than accept one theory as face value. There are exceptions to this like a cop coming forward and outing a scum, or a roleblocker consistently blocking the correct person and coming forward with that information, etc. Not trying to base my entire gameplay around a "critical hit", it's more like trying to achieve 80-100% accuracy. I like to be correct, I like to back up other people when they claim such and such, because if it makes sense to me, I'll go to bat for them/it.

However, for the sake of argument, and since we don't have any leads other than a loose theory, and what I find odd as well on Skoffins part with the no vote, I'll run with you on it. Not so much on the theory, but just the voting part. Vote Skoffin

As I said earlier in case someone missed this, let's hold off on DJ until we figure out his activity warrants a replacement. I believe his claim since I'm a VT as well, but his lack of involvement isn't helping anyone.

[Minister Masket]

I don't think we should be putting DJ up on the firing line at this time until we figure out his activity and if it warrants a replacement. He did claim VT and me being the only other one alive, I'm hard pressed to believe the claim for the moment.

The fact that it's likely you are the other one is the reason my vote is currently on him. I don't think nag would have three vanillas in the game. Activity levels don't come into it for me.

FOS Masket Yesterday, I noticed Masket hovering over this forum without posting throught my discussion with DDS. Today he posts and pointedly avoids mentioning my theory or voicing his opinion.

FOS Mandy
Aha! Now who's the skimmer!

I'm not sure where this "cult" argument is going tbh. Feels like it's more likely to form rifts between townies rather than peg down scum.

It's an interesting read but honestly I think it's a dead-end argument and I don't believe it will lead anywhere conductive. It feels more like a classic 4-scum set-up from how the game's gone so far.

I can explain the "hovering" though. During the week I often sign into CC straight away while at work but have to minimise the page when my boss comes in (he sits behind me).
I really need to start backing out to the general forum so it doesn't look I'm constantly 'here'.

[mandalorian2298]

My FOS stays on you since 1) that is rather short dismissal of a grand and beautiful theory; 2) I can't believe that you allow your boss to sit behind you.

[Skoffin]

My next long ass post shall have to wait, probably until tomorrow. The only thing that can't wait is:

@Skoffin In Civ Mafia you voted for Samlen on Day 1. Also, possibly, Chu, since it wasn't bold I don't know if it was tallied. Nice try though.

BTW, I almost never drink that whole theory came to me naturally.

Did I? Are you positive? Can you link where I did?

Maybe you are just naturally drunk

@Skoffin

Reg. "If anyone other them me..." part - The rules don't state that the roles have been given randomly. This is heavy metagaming, f course, but maybe Nag wanted to see if you could get away with taking your strange play style to its extreme.
Also, you got to recruit two Culties, who as a rule are much harder to find then Mobsters. That seems pretty far from "guaranteed Cult loss".

Reg. "This hinges on Mufasa being predestined to die early..." - Not necessarily. Had you gone Mute the entire game through, there are believable claims that you could have came up with, for instance "Deaf Old Elephant" or "Tiny Mouse" (like the one that Scar wants to eat in his first scene. He could be imagined as being to little to be given a vote).

Reg. "Rek...koala...someotherAussienonsensethatnoonebutyouguysunderstands" part - Just name-claim and you are free to rek away. Scrub.

FOS Masket Yesterday, I noticed Masket hovering over this forum without posting throught my discussion with DDS. Today he posts and pointedly avoids mentioning my theory or voicing his opinion.

1. So now the suggestion is that the mods DID actively select which players to give roles to? That seems like a bad way for a serious game to roll as it means players can begin 'playing the mod' rather than the game by guessing how they selected which players they gave what role to. This is why we all use a random generator for distributing them. Since you are suggesting Nag CHOSE me specifically, do you in face agree that if chu got the role by random that he/cult would be ruined?
Obviously by 'guarantee cult loss' I am referring to when the mods create the game and balance it, not by what stage we happen to be at now and what you think has transpired. When the mods made the game, if they made this role/PR and randomly gave it out they had the potential to create an auto-lose situation for cult. You might not consider auto-lose situations when making your games ( ) but I'm pretty sure nag/ga7 would.

2. Yes, certainly. Now if there is one thing I can do it's create a fake claim, but I'm not going to do so when I'm not even scum.

3. I'm not going to name claim unless there is an actual valid reason to consider me to be scum, other than "my god, Skoffin didn't vote D1 and might be Scar with a dumb post restriction!". If you can come up with a valid excuse to accuse me then I'll reconsider claiming, but I'm not claiming over this nonsense.

Now to adress mandy's theory, i do think he has something when concerning the PR, but i am not sure that a PR could automatically equal scum, and then i have trouble seeing scar as anything else but a godfather, i have fosed skoff a couple of times already for different reasons, and i do believe she has been fishy more than once, but from there to be 100% certain she is scum, i dont know, i have some lingering doubts, and for the dynamic of the game i could certainly miss her more than DJ, mitch or DDS so when it comes to her i am more weary of a mislynch, i could like if one of our cops could check her out, if she comes out town, then there is no reason to out yourself as a cop, but if she is scum that could be a great catch, because a smart player like her could do a lot of damage as scum, so for the moment once again ill FOS skoff, because to me it doesnt make any sense that even though she expressed that no lynch hurted town more than anything else, and even though she said that town should always lynch when given the chance, she still didn"t put her vote where her arguments where.

To the bold:


To the underlined: I delay voting because I like to see where things are going and give people time to respond and react to things before the day is over; I did allow Kwan more time to say his piece just on the off-chance anything useful could come of it, but I doubt anyone expected him to suddenly vote himself.


I still must agree with this idea that there can only be two vanillas. For starters I don't consider it balanced to give names to every role and have two unnamed as it essentially puts scum in a position where town just has to claim D1 and then lynch anyone that is a double or an oddman out. Either there are more plains around or some names were specifically left open for scum to use. Considering we haven't had a rush of votes yet leads me to believe that there are more vanillas out there who don't want to lynch someone for just being vanilla but don't want to claim because they might just get put up for a lynch too.

Anyway, not to be a cliche, but I suspect Pika.

[Pikanchion]

This entire cult leader with a PR idea is fairly ridiculous; we know there's a scum-sided-non-cult team (mod confirmed by two of their deaths, and before there could possibly have been any recruitments), and we know that Scar, the alleged cult leader, made a kill last night (mod confirmed in the day beginning message). We can basically be sure that Scar exists and is a killing role of some sort, and that the mafia team exists, if they are not one and the same then one or the other failed to kill each night, which seems unlikely. Now, mandalorian2298 also says that

There are only two Lion King roles that could explain this post restriction and, since one of those roles is Scar, my vote stays on you until and unless you name-claim the second role. (on the bright side, if you do claim the second role without a counterclaim, you will be a proven Townie.)

but as Skoffin has not claimed this mysterious other role (by which I'm fairly sure you're referring to Simba) either she isn't and has no idea what you are referring to, or doesn't want to confirm to the scum team that she's this (presumably) powerful town role. Either way your continued pressing of this Scar cult idea (even after DirtyDishSoap demonstrated Scar is a killing role) seems like it's just an attempt to get somebody to claim for an arbitrary reason you came up with during the night phase.

Vote: mandalorian2298

[Pikanchion]

Anyway, not to be a cliche, but I suspect Pika.

oh rly?

[Fircoal]

The Skoffin idea is still just as silly as it was before. I'm not sure why you seem to think that she is Scar because that evidence doesn't mean much especially with what Skoffin said and Scar's mention in the night scene, it just doesn't make sense.

Furthermore, I am suspicious of DDS's play. He seems to be jumping all over the place. He'll argue against something and then suddenly jump onto that lynch which to me makes no sense. It makes even less sense because DJ is so much better of a lynch. It's the same thing about him voting Sam. There was no reason to vote Sam at that point, and we still had time. Same with Skoffin then. Mandy if you want some ammo against Skoffin, why not use the Sam vote because I feel that was pretty suspicious.

Here's the thing.

I'm not voting DJ because he's inactive. Sure he's inactive and I don't like that, but I don't think he's the only one and furthermore, inactivity doesn't make a case good. One can be town and inactive it's very possible.

I am also not voting DJ because of the VT issue. I think it's very possible that there are more VT's out there and I think any idea that relies on there being only two is the pinnacle of rediculousness. I know we don't expect VT's but this isn't one of my games it's very possible for there to be a number of VTs. We have no idea how many VTs there are so it's impossible to say with certainity what the number of them are. It's hard to even be able to guess. And as a case leader it would be really weak.

I am 100% voting for DJ because he said something that is strickly WRONG. I'm not sure how that happened but my guess is that DJ is lying somewhere. And I don't like liars.