Mass Effect 1 - Thorian (Cult) Wins!

[Ragian]

A non-poster... That's not really offering anything. And then you change your vote to dakky for what?

[Thorthoth]

So I'd say it's fairly safe to assume...

Okay, but in that case you wouldn't know, unless you were in the cult, and if you were in the cult you wouldn't talk about it... though I suppose it could be a slip, or an attempt to act contrary to expectations... or perhaps one's free will fighting against the brainwashing.... (sigh) This whole thing is like being trapped in Plato's cave.

No, I don't know that's the case, but I assume it is, do you disagree? -That this entity from Mass Effect 1, appearing on the planet we're currently on, which exhibits abilities and behaviours that near enough perfectly describe how cults function in mafia games, and canonically is the only reason Saren and the Geth came to Feros (and so by extention Sheperd and the rest of the characters), exists and is a cult leader?

Okay, so the Thorian is source-linked to the planet Feros. I didn't get that before. Maybe it was stated, if so, I'm sorry.
So in Mass effects the Feros storyline is a distinct element that involves the Thorians. Okay, then maybe assuming that there is a Thorian cult in this game isn't so far-fetched.
If there is how will we ever know about it? How would either the town or the mafia know to target this Thorian before it takes over everybody? The link somebody provided earlier said that these third-party cults are often powerful enough to unbalance the game dynamics...

[lord voldemort]

Third party cults can be balanced. They are very much a personal preference. A fair few players dont enjoy games with cult in them. makes it a touch more difficult.

Pika's reasoning is very sound.

I am sure Caff will claim if it gets close to it. I dont particularly want the pressure put on him to claim if he is telling the truth of being a power role and jailed. As stated already I would much rather target a lurker this early in the game than potentially lynch someone who may be of value.

[dakky21]

I am sure Caff will claim if it gets close to it. I dont particularly want the pressure put on him to claim if he is telling the truth of being a power role and jailed. As stated already I would much rather target a lurker this early in the game than potentially lynch someone who may be of value.

While I agree with you, I think the lurker should be replaced instead of lynching him. Lynching lurker doesn't bring any new information so what's the point of it?
Also, if Caff claims he is a doctor or some other role, someone might counter claim.

I'd rather see Caff claim than a lurker lynch, unless replaced.

[iAmCaffeine]

Jailing someone is basically role blocking them, but you can also save them from being killed. There's your explanation dickshit, I love you thanks. I guess my D1 had the intended effect, at least partly.

I'd assume I was targeted because I give off a lot of confidence etc. in general, but those that don't know me very well (most people playing) could read that as the confidence of a power role.

So you deliberately tried to get killed as a town power role? I'm not buying it.

unvote, vote caffeine

What part of "I give off a lot of confidence" don't you understand? Why are there people in this game like benga and DY, who know my standard characteristics, trying to vote me for being myself? I said my D1 had the intended effect, partly. Honestly, I wanted to be saved on N1 because I'm selfish and generally think I'm better than others. I didn't soft anything though because I'm not an idiot. Obviously my intention wasn't to get targeted by mafia, if that's what happened.

Also, maybe I wasn't even targeted by mafia, as I mentioned earlier as a 3rd possibility. I don't think anyone can accurately say what happened on N1 and continued speculation over it isn't helping anyone. I'm kinda getting tired of repeating myself because the same arguments are being brought up.

I'll post again when I've had time to look over D1 posts - which will likely be mostly useless - and figure out who tried to off me.

Obviously this never happened, because scum have no reason to scum-hunt.

It's not even worth responding to this, but I gave my reads and gave explanations for them.

[HotShot53]

So I'd say it's fairly safe to assume...

Okay, but in that case you wouldn't know, unless you were in the cult, and if you were in the cult you wouldn't talk about it... though I suppose it could be a slip, or an attempt to act contrary to expectations... or perhaps one's free will fighting against the brainwashing.... (sigh) This whole thing is like being trapped in Plato's cave.

No, I don't know that's the case, but I assume it is, do you disagree? -That this entity from Mass Effect 1, appearing on the planet we're currently on, which exhibits abilities and behaviours that near enough perfectly describe how cults function in mafia games, and canonically is the only reason Saren and the Geth came to Feros (and so by extention Sheperd and the rest of the characters), exists and is a cult leader?

Okay, so the Thorian is source-linked to the planet Feros. I didn't get that before. Maybe it was stated, if so, I'm sorry.
So in Mass effects the Feros storyline is a distinct element that involves the Thorians. Okay, then maybe assuming that there is a Thorian cult in this game isn't so far-fetched.
If there is how will we ever know about it? How would either the town or the mafia know to target this Thorian before it takes over everybody? The link somebody provided earlier said that these third-party cults are often powerful enough to unbalance the game dynamics...

Generally, we find out for sure there is a cult in the game when a recruited member gets lynched or killed, and the mod reveals they were cult. Or if we get really lucky, we kill or lynch the cult recruiter. Sometimes the mods will hint in the day/night scenes about there being an active cult. Pik's reasoning seems pretty logical, so I wouldn't be surprised if there are cult in this game.

For caf, I don't know if he's scum or not. He's almost seeming to get a little too desperate at defending himself now, but that could just be his personality or being frustrated at being a target and getting continual heat on him.

At this point it does seem like Fircoal should be replaced... I don't know why he was posting in other games but not this one though. And as someone mentioned, the kill could have not happened because the scum was absent and didn't submit it. The mod did have to post a reminder in the thread because he hadn't gotten all the actions in. So at this point, I'll leave my vote where it is.

[Fircoal]

I should warn you guys I've won trophies playing online mafia before.

Oh what would you know. So have i!

I'm reading through the thread atm. Hopefully iLL be finished and be posting soon.

[Fircoal]

WEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!! Time for an actual post!

Ok first off FOS: Everyone who voted for me on Day 2.

I understand Day 1. At that point I was a more scummy level of inactivity. Well first let me explain something. Yes scumarining is bad. Because it denies two things. 1) The chance for the scumariner to dig themselves into a hole because they're not saying anything! 2) The chance for more information to be discussed. As we all know scum love it when nothing is told. (Unless the town blows the game like in Lion King.) However the trade off is if someone scumarines too hard or doesn't contribute it makes them an obvious target for lynch because of that. Thusly scum try to stick to an amount so that they don't get noticed for doing it but still aren't damaging themselves in the process.

When looking at my play on Day 1, that might have seemed like a likely happening. As I did post in other threads (more on that later.) Not to mention the idea of just lynching anyone instead of going for a no lynch is not a bad idea. However once Day 2 rolled around and still no posts happened it should have been completely obviously that for whatever reason I had for not posting in the thread, it was not alignment indicative. Do you really think a scum member would lurk and read through getting all of those votes and stay quiet? Do you think a town member would do that either? No of course not. The ideal scummariner still wants to read the game so they don't get thrown into holes like these. They also usually post after the mods tell them too instead of delaying it even further. The fact that I got prodded and still took a while to post should make it clear that I haven't been in this thread since my last post.

And that's pretty much how it went. I didn't even know I got voted until just now. Now going back to those other games, look at the positioning of them. One of them was late in the day on a day where there were only 6 players. that means 4 to lynch. That means 4 out of 5 players. That means if two people slack town is kill. So I had to go in there at least somewhat so that a lynch would happen. As for One Night I had KEY information that needed to be let out before the day ended. Which was soon. And I still almost went over that deadline if it weren't for Skoffin. And I posted it in the wrong thread and didn't notice. Honestly if there was any sign that inactivity was afoot that should have been in. Sloppiness is the calling card of inactivity.

And as for the idea that made the scum missed their kill. There are multiple mafia members and if there weren't I don't think DDS would be so leneit on having the one mafia member be AWOL. So even if a mafia member was inactive it very much likely at least one mafia member was active, and they would have sent in the kill.

So in short, at this point it should be painfully obvious that I was inactive. So anyone voting for me despite that has not thought it through enough or is scum wanting this easy town lynch. Furthermore it's not close to the deadline and there is information. There is no reason to be voting for me. Maybe if this was 2 days left I'd get it but we have 10. We have time.

Ok, now for my thoughts on the game:

Caff & Benga:

Now this is a weird back and forth between them because I find them both scummy for different reasons. For Caff, the fact that he got jailed on a no kill day is suspcious. While there are other explainations for this it does strike in my mind. Furthermore he sometimes mays statements like:

You mean you're not aware of this, Pika?

Being preseeved as knowing town only information is obviously good. The way that he says it makes me think that he's trying to make himself look like he knows what's up without actually knowing what's up. Which feels like a cheap grab at town credibility without having the substance behind it.

Meanwhile I do think Benga is a jailer but his arguements have been weak. I suspect Caff but all Benga has done is attack him on his play. While he did make a good point about Caff's lack of a defense his own points weren't very good either. It felt a lot like grasping at straws which isn't a very pro-town thing to do.

MM:

I don't often play with (or use when modding) third parties or cults, so I reckon this would be a good stage to speculating exactly what goals they have in mind. If anything a general overview of what they tend to get up to would be of benefit to our newer players.

Interesting that people are still voting for Caffeine when the scum are seen as the lesser threat right now.

I'll hold off on that vote for now, because I have a risky plan in mind. Benga, are ye willing to jail Caffeine again tonight to see if another night kill can be stopped? I don't often see this crop up in mafia, but it's debatable whether a hamstrung anti-town player is more useful than a dead one.

"HURRR DURRR Vote MM for trying to get town to spill night actions"
- Some Pleb potentially a few posts from now

Noo....not asking benga to do anything. Just a penny for his thoughts.

This is an interesting post for a couple of reasons. First off the defeated logic that Caff could be repeatedly blocked and thusly weaken the mafia. While it seemed tempting I think Pika's argument was stronger espeically since the mods want the game to be balenced. I wonder if Masket thought of that when he made the post or not.

What's more conserning is him saying that scum are the lesser threat. While yes scum are less scary than cult at this point, it has to be noted that lynching scum is the name of the game. The scum can lao skill the cult themselves. Keeping around scum just because they're not cult is stupid unless the cult is at the verge of victory. Masket should know very well what the illusion of cult and their powerfulness can do. He was in Lion King as mafia where arguments for a cult diverted the game and wasted a day on a terrible lynch idea. While Caff is not a known scum it is not surprising that some people are looking for who might be the scummiest overall, not just who is cult. To do the opposite I think would be even scummier.

Pika:

I too did notice his activity drop from Day 1 to Day 2. And when he makes posts like these:

I want to hear from both of the players who haven't posted at all this in-game day before I post anything else substantial, allowing them to lurk until a bandwagon has already begun to form is letting them off far too easily, and means we will be going into the third day with virtually no reads on either of them. It's even plausible that there was no night kill because one of them failed to submit a night action.

it's really hard not to see that as suspicious. Just because me and Skoffin haven't posted doesn't meant that you can't. Also you think we've gotten off too easily? Why? As I detailed there wasn't much reason to vote for me. At that point there was only one real option, either wait for me to post or get replaced. Same for Skoffin.

Also this is what I mean by optimal level of scummarining. He's paying attention enough to tend off from any attack against him but not enough to help. He's even pulling out BS reasons so that he doesn't say anything. This is what scummarining looks like, rather than my not posting in 2 weeks inactivity.

A random footnote: I believe Masket and Pika were the clueless ones. It's not uncommon for mods ot cover for mistakes or things that'd make teh scum too easy. It's possible he forgot to give the win conidition to the scum and so to fix that he claimed responsibiility and then send it out to them.

Dakky:

His posts feel a bit weird and I wonder if him defending me is because he is scum and knows I'm town. (Same with mitch). On the other hand what they say is true and I'm useful when active so it also makes sense why a town member would want me to stay alive (and hope that I finally pop up with lengthy posts like these.)

On the idea of Scum helping town:

Of course this happens, it's silly to think it wouldn't. Here's the thing scum can get lots of points by siding themselves iwth the town members, and they have the information to do it because they know who isn't scum. Sure they may mistake a 3rd party member but there's very little risk to buddying up with a town member and trying to help them out. Espeically since it might not do that much. They could get lynched, reveal as town and then the scum looks like a hero who tried to save them. That's a win-win for the scum. While I'm not suggesting that Hotshot did that, I don't think it's unthinkable that a scum Hotshot could have done that.



Skittles:

While I don't agree with all of Skittle's arguments his behavoir in this game is like what I've seen from other games where he is town. Thusly he's giving me a protown vibe.

Thor:

He's pretty much acting like a typical noob (TM). And while that doesn't necessarly mean that he's town, I'm having a hard time getting any real serious scum tells on him. Nothing about him as been out of the noob ordinary.



And that's about that. My biggest leads right now are Masket, Pika and Caffe. That said I haven't really settled on anyone at this point, as I feel like reading through everyhting in one go is going to give me so many ideas. I need to mull over it more and see it more in real time I imagine. However those two at the top of the list as it currently stands.

[Skoffin]

Sorry my spudlings, I am vaguely dead.

First, Fircoal is scum. yolo.
I have skimmed a bit, but I need to do a proper read through. Caff is looking like our aggressive player of the game, or our mandy 2.0. I'm not comfortable voting someone based purely on lack of NK's, not when we likely have multiple ways of how that could have happened; I am certain we have roleblockers, docs and a few other meddling types. (or chu didn't send in his kill ) I am also of the opinion that we have multiple factions working against each other. As such the best thing for the moment is to analyse caff's response to the accusation and other people's reactions to see where factions might be lining up, I just haven't taken an in depth look at it yet.

[DirtyDishSoap]

(4) iAmCaffeine - Benga, Dakky, Mitch, DY
(2) Fircoal - HotShot, Moldybutt
(3) Dakky - Skittles, Thor, Caff

Please bold green votes and unvotes. I will not be counting it otherwise. Final reminder.

With 17 alive, it takes 10 to lynch

Deadline remains for the 28th, next week.

[lord voldemort]

unvote

thats all I really have for now

[iAmCaffeine]

I'm glad I changed votes. I'm at work and only had a chance to skim through. I need to give Fircoal's post a more thorough read tomorrow.

[iAmCaffeine]

**or later today. The fact I'm being voted for aggressiveness is just reminding me of life on epicmafia.com, which I'd been advised was a lot worse than mafia games here. Seems not.

[Ragian]

I think people are voting you because you were jailed and their was no night kill. That's what they've been saying. In this thread. That you claim others don't read

Anyway, glad to have chu back. I like his breakdown. I'm not sure if I agree on everything he said, but the post seemed thought through. I didn't get where dakky defended chu as such, but took a general stance on lynching inactives. It looked like a post from someone who gives a shit, however.

Skoffin's post, on the other hand, looked like a very desperate attempt at looking active without saying too much. Funny that post came right after chu's breakdown of scumarining She did confess to skimming, though.

LoVo raised an eyebrow here when voting for Chu. It came off, to me, as someone wanting to pile on the pressure on the inactive as people voiced thoughts to the contrary. He quickly removed his vote, too, almost with a sigh. I'm keeping an eye on that.

[Thorthoth]

Do I still need to respond if every new post is just saying the same thing, but in different ways to to make different people look like the bad guys?

[dakky21]

Do I still need to respond if every new post is just saying the same thing, but in different ways to to make different people look like the bad guys?

As I already asked, who do you find scummy and why?

[Thorthoth]

Do I still need to respond if every new post is just saying the same thing, but in different ways to to make different people look like the bad guys?

As I already asked, who do you find scummy and why?

I answered that, I gave a long analytical post yesterday and I came to no firm conclusions. Everybody seems a little scummy...
HOWEVER, I am now finding you (dakky's) hard-sell tactic to make me decide w/o sufficient evidence a bit suspicious...

[iAmCaffeine]

I think people are voting you because you were jailed and their was no night kill. That's what they've been saying. In this thread. That you claim others don't read

Hm, no. I've addressed that point several times. Other people have voted me because of my "confidence". I've read all points made against me and, I believe, responded to them all as well. Like I said, if you read what was posted..

[DoomYoshi]

I think people are voting you because you were jailed and their was no night kill. That's what they've been saying. In this thread. That you claim others don't read

Hm, no. I've addressed that point several times. Other people have voted me because of my "confidence". I've read all points made against me and, I believe, responded to them all as well. Like I said, if you read what was posted..

You can't win an argument against parsimony though. You will always be the best vote of the day, no matter how you ad hom dakky.

[iAmCaffeine]

You probably shouldn't use words you don't understand in an effort to sound intelligent. Also, if I'm the best vote of the day, why didn't you vote me initially?

[dakky21]

I answered that, I gave a long analytical post yesterday and I came to no firm conclusions. Everybody seems a little scummy...
HOWEVER, I am now finding you (dakky's) hard-sell tactic to make me decide w/o sufficient evidence a bit suspicious...

First of all, you didn't answered the question in that post. You just said who claimed or didn't claim. You didn't say any thoughts of your own. I'm not asking you to decide who is scummy, I'm asking you to share your thoughts who could be scummy and why. Nothing final, just thoughts. So far you're mitch 2.0, just repeating what others said or summarizing the game progress. Just say why you think I'm scum and why you voted for me. That's a game of mafia...

[iAmCaffeine]

I said him and Mitch are similar earlier and was shot down for the comparison.

[Thorthoth]

I answered that, I gave a long analytical post yesterday and I came to no firm conclusions. Everybody seems a little scummy...
HOWEVER, I am now finding you (dakky's) hard-sell tactic to make me decide w/o sufficient evidence a bit suspicious...

First of all, you didn't answered the question in that post. You just said who claimed or didn't claim. You didn't say any thoughts of your own. I'm not asking you to decide who is scummy, I'm asking you to share your thoughts who could be scummy and why. Nothing final, just thoughts. So far you're mitch 2.0, just repeating what others said or summarizing the game progress. Just say why you think I'm scum and why you voted for me. That's a game of mafia...

Most players haven't voted yet. I don't think there are anywhere near 10 votes in total. Your pressure to have me vote may not mean that you're scum, but it may mean you want me to stick my neck out and make some enemies. There are some hunches and theories but very little of the evidence is either confirmed or unequivocal.
Maybe it will be strategic to vote for a lynching in the absence of compelling evidence, but I'm not going to rush into that. I think playing a cautious game is still playing, no?

btw, do I have to go through the thread and add up all the green votes myself in order to know where the lynch vote stands?

Wait, nevermind, I just found DDS' last post.

(4) iAmCaffeine - Benga, Dakky, Mitch, DY
(2) Fircoal - HotShot, Moldybutt
(3) Dakky - Skittles, Thor, Caff

Please bold green votes and unvotes. I will not be counting it otherwise. Final reminder.

With 17 alive, it takes 10 to lynch

Deadline remains for the 28th, next week.

Hold on here, is DDS that saying I'm voting for dakky? I didn't vote for dakky I just questioned his pushiness. I know it's only a vote if it's written in Green.
Hold on again, the deadline for Day 2 is the 28th! That seems like a long time, is that the normal pace for these games.

Agghh! woah, I did vote dakky in Green!? unvote dakky I'm not ready to commit to that yet, especially since I have until the 28th (!) to decide.

And also, my comparison to Mitch, does that just mean I'm being cautious and indecisive, or is there more to that analogy?

And it's okay to edit if I'm still the last post, right?

[dakky21]

So, after Ragian mentioned OMGUS, you don't remember that you voted for me?

I REALLY don't like that newbie card you are playing. I will be switching my vote to you if a bandwagon happens. We need a lynch today and I'll vote you without hesitation although Caff is a better choice.

You still didn't answer the question. Who do you find scummy and why?

BTW: It's not okay to edit anything. What you write at the moment should stay there.

[Thorthoth]

So, after Ragian mentioned OMGUS, you don't remember that you voted for me?

I REALLY don't like that newbie card you are playing. I will be switching my vote to you if a bandwagon happens. We need a lynch today and I'll vote you without hesitation although Caff is a better choice.

You still didn't answer the question. Who do you find scummy and why?

BTW: It's not okay to edit anything. What you write at the moment should stay there.

You keep gunning for me, and it's not an accident. I guess now that they're aren't any real no-shows, we will all need to find other excuses to lynch.
Maybe I should vote for you, and maybe I will, but for now I'll just give you a FOS dakky.

I think it is fine to edit a post while it's still the last one. It's difficult to arrange a complicated post and sometimes one needs to post it in stages, for clarity.