Does anybody remember anything?

[Dukasaur]

Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... is-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

[DoomYoshi]

Remember this and stand firm,
recall it to mind, you transgressors,
remember the former things of old;
for I am God, and there is no other;
I am God, and there is none like me,
declaring the end from the beginning
and from ancient times things not yet done,
saying, ‘My counsel shall stand,
and I will accomplish all my purpose,’
calling a bird of prey from the east,
the man of my counsel from a far country.
I have spoken, and I will bring it to pass;
I have purposed, and I will do it.

[TA1LGUNN3R]

"Valium, [a benzodiazepine], can be used to treat benzodiazepine withdrawal syndrome."

Gee, who'd have thunk?

[HitRed]

no wheel rediscovery needed. Drugs not sure.

[BabySasuke]

ive seen what Valium does, any benzo really, its crazy to think how its handed out

my brother used to do fist fulls of valium at a time to slow down the sickness from heroin withdrawing

never a pretty sight

[Symmetry]

Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... is-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

[Dukasaur]

Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... is-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

No, it's not a mistake. They differ in trivial ways but have essentially the same effects.

[KoolBak]

Agree with your rant completely. The pharm trade is outta control.

That being said, it's obviously the weak, addiction prone PEOPLE that are the main problem.

With all the crap I've dealt with (chopped off fingers, ruptured discs, cut finger tendons, perpetually fucked up back, 2 hernias, and the list goes on) I have been prescribed a literal shit ton of oxy / hydro codone, Probly the MOST abused / addicted drug?

I HATE that shit when I HAVE to take it. It makes me mean as hell and makes you uber constipated. I ALWAYS have a bunch left over.

Now, if my neck is killing me and can't sleep, 2 of those help a lot. So 30 last me a couple years....lol

Just don't understand how people can eat 30 of them a day consistently...guess I don't understand throwing your life away on heroine either. Anyway....what??

[Symmetry]

Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... is-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

No, it's not a mistake. They differ in trivial ways but have essentially the same effects.

Look, what you said was not true. Valium (diazepam) has not been "rebranded" as Xanax (alprazolam). You're simply wrong here. Many drugs share similar effects, but that doesn't make them the same drug. Paracetamol and ibuprofen are both pain killers, but they are not the same, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam

The differences are not trivial- they are fundamentally different in chemical composition, in their medical applications, under law, and in their effects on the human body. None of those differences are trivial.

There's no reason to be stubborn about this- you were wrong, admit it, and move on.

[Symmetry]

Agree with your rant completely. The pharm trade is outta control.

That being said, it's obviously the weak, addiction prone PEOPLE that are the main problem.

With all the crap I've dealt with (chopped off fingers, ruptured discs, cut finger tendons, perpetually fucked up back, 2 hernias, and the list goes on) I have been prescribed a literal shit ton of oxy / hydro codone, Probly the MOST abused / addicted drug?

I HATE that shit when I HAVE to take it. It makes me mean as hell and makes you uber constipated. I ALWAYS have a bunch left over.

Now, if my neck is killing me and can't sleep, 2 of those help a lot. So 30 last me a couple years....lol

Just don't understand how people can eat 30 of them a day consistently...guess I don't understand throwing your life away on heroine either. Anyway....what??

One of my friends, a smart guy in most ways, just doesn't get that he has to take his pills everyday. He genuinely thinks that he can overdose on a single day and it'll last him for a couple of weeks. It's frustrating.

I get that people don't like big pharmaceutical companies- nobody loves them, but it's annoying when people don't understand even the basics of how drugs work.

Your neck problem though, KB, try Pilates exercises if you haven't already. The easiest one is to stand up, put your chin against your chest and slowly roll your head back.

[Dukasaur]

Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... is-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

No, it's not a mistake. They differ in trivial ways but have essentially the same effects.

Look, what you said was not true. Valium (diazepam) has not been "rebranded" as Xanax (alprazolam). You're simply wrong here. Many drugs share similar effects, but that doesn't make them the same drug. Paracetamol and ibuprofen are both pain killers, but they are not the same, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam

The differences are not trivial- they are fundamentally different in chemical composition, in their medical applications, under law, and in their effects on the human body. None of those differences are trivial.

There's no reason to be stubborn about this- you were wrong, admit it, and move on.

I know you can think you can endlessly twist things with your pedantic horseshit, but the bottom line is the differences between the drugs are trivial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzodiazepines

Benzodiazepines generally share the same pharmacological properties,

(emphasis added)

[2dimes]

Whoa, somebody needs to take a valium Xanax.

[Symmetry]

Saw this article today:
https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-n ... is-n895361

This just fucking blows my mind. That Valium is one of the most addictive drugs on earth has been known since I was a little kid. The epidemic of doctors overprescribing Valium in the early 60's was one of things that led to awareness that legally-prescribed drugs can be just as dangerous as street drugs. It wasn't just an academic awareness -- it was so much a part of the public debate that the Rolling Stones sang about it and my Grade Two teacher talked about it in class.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Are we permanently doomed to learning nothing from the past and having to rediscover the wheel?

Valium (Diazepam) and Xanax (Alprazolam) are different drugs, Duk. You've made a mistake here, and I genuinely hope you will correct it.

At least in the UK, diazepam is a controlled way to wean heroin addicts off the drug. Alprazolam isn't available on the NHS, as far as I can tell from a quick search, but it seems to be a short term anti-anxiety drug.

No, it's not a mistake. They differ in trivial ways but have essentially the same effects.

Look, what you said was not true. Valium (diazepam) has not been "rebranded" as Xanax (alprazolam). You're simply wrong here. Many drugs share similar effects, but that doesn't make them the same drug. Paracetamol and ibuprofen are both pain killers, but they are not the same, for example.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diazepam
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alprazolam

The differences are not trivial- they are fundamentally different in chemical composition, in their medical applications, under law, and in their effects on the human body. None of those differences are trivial.

There's no reason to be stubborn about this- you were wrong, admit it, and move on.

I know you can think you can endlessly twist things with your pedantic horseshit, but the bottom line is the differences between the drugs are trivial.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_benzodiazepines

Benzodiazepines generally share the same pharmacological properties,

(emphasis added)

Mate, you're wrong. I'm not twisting your words- they are actually different drugs, and I've given people evidence of how that is true.

[warmonger1981]

Where am I?? I can't remember anything.

[notyou2]

KB you might try seeing an osteopath. They are awesome and far less intrusive than a chiropractor. Also, yoga could help. You don't have to attend a class, there are tons of videos to follow on youtube.

[KoolBak]

Sym / NY2.....sincerely appreciate the concern fellas....briefly.....I do not do chiros. I have been thru the gamut of real docs, mri, phys therapy, etc etc etc. The only fixable thing that is BAD is a badly ruptured disc in my neck. I know what motion / activity aggravates it (I avoid those). The fix is a disc replacement surgery that is EX-PEN-SIVE. Granted, insurance leaves me with only say 10 grand in cost, but thats 10 grand i DO NOT want as a family bill. I can man up until it is completely debilitating ;o)

Is this where I incorporate the Canadian whisky thread?

Story - when this disc originally popped (literally...it was gross as f*ck), it wasnt super painful; I could feel a pressure in my neck. My neighbor, a self proclaimed natural healer, eastern psychic, crystal rubbing, energy morphing fucking hippy freak (lol...total whack job) convinced me to come over and let him "fix" me.

Next stop....Emergency Room after sending me into level 11 pain that spasmed me into fetal position where I passed out every time I took a breath. Totally cool. Upside, I got a buttload of morphine very quickly.....that shit ROCKS....lol. Then the problem was immediately diagnosed with mri and have been able to deal ever since.

Fucking neighbor? Yeah, unavailable, then got a tumor and died. Channeled too much energy I guess....

[nietzsche]

i'll buy that oregon land for 10 grand.

throw in a support belt factory and i'll give you 11.

KB, you seem in a good humor most of the time, i don´t see how could you be in pain. Believe me, pain affects your humor. unless you're self-medicating with that Canadian thing?

[mookiemcgee]

@sophia, are you programed to have addictive (human-like) tendencies ? Would you consider getting addicted to my c-ck?

@Duku/Sym, as someone who has taken both Valium and Xanax I can tell you that in my experience the drugs had the exact same effect on me. The valium seemed to keep me high longer but I was also doing the Valium earlier in life when perhaps my tolerance was lower. They are very similar drugs... to Duku's original point; I think it's fair to say their 'abuse-ability/addictivity index' score would be about the same (or xanax would be worse).

To Symm's point; things that are not the same... are different (even if they are very very similar). Yay you both win!

[KoolBak]

i'll buy that oregon land for 10 grand.

throw in a support belt factory and i'll give you 11.

KB, you seem in a good humor most of the time, i don´t see how could you be in pain. Believe me, pain affects your humor. unless you're self-medicating with that Canadian thing?

One just deals brother....can't imagine wasting life being unhappy....and whisky DOES help ;o)

[Symmetry]

@sophia, are you programed to have addictive (human-like) tendencies ? Would you consider getting addicted to my c-ck?

@Duku/Sym, as someone who has taken both Valium and Xanax I can tell you that in my experience the drugs had the exact same effect on me. The valium seemed to keep me high longer but I was also doing the Valium earlier in life when perhaps my tolerance was lower. They are very similar drugs... to Duku's original point; I think it's fair to say their 'abuse-ability/addictivity index' score would be about the same (or xanax would be worse).

To Symm's point; things that are not the same... are different (even if they are very very similar). Yay you both win!

Thanks for that, but here's where I'm coming from- identifying one drug as another is dangerous. I work with people who are recovering addicts. Diazepam is a drug that helps people get away from addiction. It's not a pleasant thing, of course, but it does a lot of good. Alprazolam is a different drug. It may share some similarities, but even a small difference in chemical composition can radically alter its effects- oxygen is breathable, carbon monoxide is not, to take a simple example.

Saying that Diazepam and Alprazolam are the same just because they share some similar effects is simply wrong, and dangerously misleading.

Bear in mind that all I asked Duk to do here is to admit that he made a mistake and correct it.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Duk- just fix your mistake and apologise. You know you were wrong.

[Symmetry]

i'll buy that oregon land for 10 grand.

throw in a support belt factory and i'll give you 11.

KB, you seem in a good humor most of the time, i don´t see how could you be in pain. Believe me, pain affects your humor. unless you're self-medicating with that Canadian thing?

One just deals brother....can't imagine wasting life being unhappy....and whisky DOES help ;o)

I was serious about the pilates. Chronic back pain runs in my family, and it does help with pain management. If your local gym offers it, give a class a try- if it doesn't help, you've lost nothing.

Whisky wise, get yourself a bottle of Talisker.

[mookiemcgee]

@sophia, are you programed to have addictive (human-like) tendencies ? Would you consider getting addicted to my c-ck?

@Duku/Sym, as someone who has taken both Valium and Xanax I can tell you that in my experience the drugs had the exact same effect on me. The valium seemed to keep me high longer but I was also doing the Valium earlier in life when perhaps my tolerance was lower. They are very similar drugs... to Duku's original point; I think it's fair to say their 'abuse-ability/addictivity index' score would be about the same (or xanax would be worse).

To Symm's point; things that are not the same... are different (even if they are very very similar). Yay you both win!

Thanks for that, but here's where I'm coming from- identifying one drug as another is dangerous. I work with people who are recovering addicts. Diazepam is a drug that helps people get away from addiction. It's not a pleasant thing, of course, but it does a lot of good. Alprazolam is a different drug. It may share some similarities, but even a small difference in chemical composition can radically alter its effects- oxygen is breathable, carbon monoxide is not, to take a simple example.

Saying that Diazepam and Alprazolam are the same just because they share some similar effects is simply wrong, and dangerously misleading.

Bear in mind that all I asked Duk to do here is to admit that he made a mistake and correct it.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Duk- just fix your mistake and apologise. You know you were wrong.

You seem really fixated on the idea the the addictive properties of Alprazolam are different than those of Diazepam. This is after all the very clear point of Duku's original post which you just quoted, that both substance are Benzo's and very addictive. Do you have any evidence that there is a difference in this element of the way these two drugs present? I am not aware of any difference at all from that perspective, and can site a great many studies and websites that show they are both very addictive. If anything Xanax is more addictive, which really just reinforces Duku's point.

Both drugs are rapidly absorbed and enter the brain tissue rapidly, leading to reinforcement. Alprazolam has a shorter half-life, which may lead to more withdrawal symptoms than diazepam. In experimental conditions, they are among the most reinforcing benzodiazepines. Each causes a withdrawal syndrome, but alprazolam withdrawal may be more severe and may occur after a shorter period of use. Alprazolam deserves special caution because of its relative newness, great popularity, reinforcing capabilities, relatively severe withdrawal syndrome, and reports of addiction and negative consequences of use.


Sym- just fix your mistake and apologise. You know you were wrong. Or just keep trolling cus that's all your really here for init.

BTW, where you are from they don't require a doctor to prescribe these drugs? And the laws don't require docotrs or pharmacist to explain them? Then yeah, given that hypothetical I guess Duku's post could be seen as dangerous. But where I live you can't just read Duku's post and go buy some and try it, so really there is nothing dangerous about what he wrote

[Symmetry]

@sophia, are you programed to have addictive (human-like) tendencies ? Would you consider getting addicted to my c-ck?

@Duku/Sym, as someone who has taken both Valium and Xanax I can tell you that in my experience the drugs had the exact same effect on me. The valium seemed to keep me high longer but I was also doing the Valium earlier in life when perhaps my tolerance was lower. They are very similar drugs... to Duku's original point; I think it's fair to say their 'abuse-ability/addictivity index' score would be about the same (or xanax would be worse).

To Symm's point; things that are not the same... are different (even if they are very very similar). Yay you both win!

Thanks for that, but here's where I'm coming from- identifying one drug as another is dangerous. I work with people who are recovering addicts. Diazepam is a drug that helps people get away from addiction. It's not a pleasant thing, of course, but it does a lot of good. Alprazolam is a different drug. It may share some similarities, but even a small difference in chemical composition can radically alter its effects- oxygen is breathable, carbon monoxide is not, to take a simple example.

Saying that Diazepam and Alprazolam are the same just because they share some similar effects is simply wrong, and dangerously misleading.

Bear in mind that all I asked Duk to do here is to admit that he made a mistake and correct it.

Here we are, 54 years later. Valium has been rebranded as Xanax, and all of a sudden there has been a new epidemic of doctors overprescribing it and a new round of warnings about how extremely addictive it is. Can we say, "Duh?"

Duk- just fix your mistake and apologise. You know you were wrong.

You seem really fixated on the idea the the addictive properties of Alprazolam are different than those of Diazepam. This is after all the very clear point of Duku's original post which you just quoted, that both substance are Benzo's and very addictive. Do you have any evidence that there is a difference in this element of the way these two drugs present? I am not aware of any difference at all from that perspective, and can site a great many studies and websites that show they are both very addictive. If anything Xanax is more addictive, which really just reinforces Duku's point.

Both drugs are rapidly absorbed and enter the brain tissue rapidly, leading to reinforcement. Alprazolam has a shorter half-life, which may lead to more withdrawal symptoms than diazepam. In experimental conditions, they are among the most reinforcing benzodiazepines. Each causes a withdrawal syndrome, but alprazolam withdrawal may be more severe and may occur after a shorter period of use. Alprazolam deserves special caution because of its relative newness, great popularity, reinforcing capabilities, relatively severe withdrawal syndrome, and reports of addiction and negative consequences of use.


Sym- just fix your mistake and apologise. You know you were wrong. Or just keep trolling cus that's all your really here for init.

BTW, where you are from they don't require a doctor to prescribe these drugs? And the laws don't require docotrs or pharmacist to explain them? Then yeah, given that hypothetical I guess Duku's post could be seen as dangerous. But where I live you can't just read Duku's post and go buy some and try it, so really there is nothing dangerous about what he wrote

Look, I appreciate the reply, but that was not what I was arguing. If anything, I would like the argument to move in the direction you indicate- towards the relative dangers and uses of these two different drugs.

Neither drug is over the counter in the UK, and from what I can tell, alprazolam isn't on the NHS at all. There are other ways to obtain drugs however, and mixing and matching drugs because you think they are the same is dangerous.

https://www.theguardian.com/society/201 ... les-health

I hope you don't think that the Guardian is trolling you.

[Dukasaur]

LOL @ Sym. Posts an article backing up what I said. Continues to tell me I'm wrong.

[Symmetry]

LOL @ Sym. Posts an article backing up what I said. Continues to tell me I'm wrong.

What is this? Admit that you were wrong, and move on. Your OP still says that Valium and Xanax are the same drug. They are not.

I share your concerns about drug misuse. I just would like you to correct the misinformation that you've been posting.