INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[BuJaber]

If you find my way suspicious, you can side with BuJ who always thinks I'm suspicious.

Hey now that shading is uncalled for.

How many times have I lynched you correctly vs mislynched is what matters. (I don't actually know the answer).

[blacky365]

I fully agree with comments above re getting a claim on D1.

Vote JFM

Im slightly worried that this leaves only 3 votes for a lynch, if scum have not yet voted then they can quickly lynch before we even get a claim... is that not a worry?

[jfm10]

I am probably the smallest fresh water fish in this game.The last Tokie game didn't have players that could talk with each other at night which makes me believe it was a possible test for this scenario.Players will probably have a personal objective (mine last game was to be on the lynch count of a certain player to be lynched,,which was ragian).

[ZaBeast]

I thought we were past talking flavour but let's dive (bad pun intended) into it if you want
The shadows being "indiscriminate with their killing of those seduced." shows that saltwater fishes can also be prey, as also shown by the death of the sailfish. However, I don't see how knowing this is of any relevance. You said it yourself,

Of course, if pressed by lynch votes, the mafia scum aren't going to admit to being a hammerhead shark, or squid, or even a seal or penguin, all of whom are carnivorous (esp. on fish). But, in an effort to avoid suspicion, if pressed, one of them might choose a freshwater fish that someone else already has as an identity, Then we can act.

It is common sense for scum to do that, unless they are fairly innocuous fishes, which I highly doubt (and regardless of their actual flavour, which I'm not interested in knowing as it would give no information on the setup), and regardless of you pointing it out, we would have known that if someone counter-claims a flavour claim, either of them is scum. Your post is basically useless chatter. Same with your other 2 posts that were only flavour. If there is nothing to gain from discussing flavour, I don't see why you should expect other players to engage with your posts.

I highly disagree with policy lynching for inactivity. We have enough reserves that inactives should be prodded and replaced instead of policy lynching, for which the likely result is town wasting one day phase and getting no information.

I only agreed to a flavour claim because I need to post and did know what to say

Filler posts are bad. You can't go the whole day phase without saying anything. Now there's been plenty discussion on different cases (jfm, Ragian vs Mets, chap), surely you must have an opinion in at least one of them? We need information on who you're siding with to have a better idea of your alignment later on. Beside, at that point you had either the choice between agreeing or disagreeing with him about a flavour claim. Why chose the former?

I fully agree with comments above re getting a claim on D1.

Vote JFM

Im slightly worried that this leaves only 3 votes for a lynch, if scum have not yet voted then they can quickly lynch before we even get a claim... is that not a worry?

pika already explained how that's not an issue. If someone hammers before a claim, he'd better be damn sure because he'll be held accountable for the lynch on the next play phases

Besides, if you want to complain about potentially dubious metagaming then where was your reaction to ZaBeast's this guy is playing like somebody else did one time and they were scum on that occasion...

That was mostly an aside. I had already stated my reasons for voting jfm, and the soft claiming gave me none for retracting it, but I agree I shouldn't have made it look like an argument because it's a pretty bad one.

[aage]

Vote: jfm10
Having mulled it over, and in light of the answers I received, I think we do need the full claim from jfm10.

Why? You didn't receive any answers from jfm - I don't even think you asked him any questions. From what I can tell you're basing your vote on whether or not Ragian was scum in three previous games.

Other than voting JM and giving my reasons why, which no one has reacted to? How dare you sir.


This game would go a lot more quickly if you would all just accept that I am right in all things and lynch jm.

Why? Your main reasoning seems to be (a) "jm had literally no reason to soft claim anything out of the blue like that" - granted, but I get the strong impression that he's a novice, and (b) "scum probably have their own protective role" - that's just a bullshit argument. Why are you trying to get the noob lynched?

I just wanted to get everyone to focus on one person, get them to L-2, and get some more info. Nothing personal. jfm10 seems to be everyone's player of choice, which I am unsure about, but to maintain my actual intent I will join that wagon.

UNVOTE
VOTE jfm10

Why? Is your only goal to pressure someone, anyone, into a claim on D1, it doesn't matter who it is? Can't you pick someone who is... I dunno, scummy? The dude already soft-claimed.

I fully agree with comments above re getting a claim on D1.

Vote JFM

Why? Which comments are those? The ones about salt and fresh water fish?

I don't know if jfm is scum or town, and I'll probably join you on lynching him if other miniwagons keep getting ignored, but this whole wagon is scummy as f*ck, and the likelihood that he is scum is no higher than anyone else's imo. What valuable information will you learn that will help us going forward by solely pressuring the guy who softclaimed "protective role"? This is a serious question. What are you expecting to gain here, apart from an easy lynch on a guy who is unlikely to defend himself well?

I would also like to voice my concerns about the flavor discussions. In my humble opinion, you guys are accomplishing nothing, just filling posts with words.

FP by Zab
Agreed on the policy lynch, get Strike into this game. Other than that... pretty empty post.

[Tobikera]

I think I've said more than once, that I expect the types of marine life who are scum to be top predators, not most of the fish species (carnivores or not) in the sea. A sailfish, as I indicated, is not a top predator...more a primary predator.

I am disappointed by jfm10's reply to pressure. He really didn't say anything...."probably the smallest fish in the game." Name your fish and quit pussy-footing around. We can't get a second claim on the same fish if you don't name it. Are you a darter, a sculpin, a shiner, ..what???
I find this scummy. I suggest you tell us a little more specifics, jfm10, short of your town/scum role.

I'm sorry if some of you are put off by my previous posts. I am a former university professor. I've designed and laid-out three large books on elasmobranchs (sharks, rays, and skates), and published numerous other books. I am a freshwater (not marine or saltwater) biologist, and I take the opportunity to educate whenever possible. Obviously, some of you know more than I anticipated. The only mafia game I have hosted was about Hemiptera, or True Bugs, and there was an educational vignette for each player about their true bug species. I believe pershy and Ragian were in that game. Obviously, this is not appreciated with this group, so I will leave you to your own devices.

[aage]

I think I've said more than once, that I expect the types of marine life who are scum to be top predators, not most of the fish species (carnivores or not) in the sea. A sailfish, as I indicated, is not a top predator...more a primary predator.

I am disappointed by jfm10's reply to pressure. He really didn't say anything...."probably the smallest fish in the game." Name your fish and quit pussy-footing around. We can't get a second claim on the same fish if you don't name it. Are you a darter, a sculpin, a shiner, ..what???
I find this scummy. I suggest you tell us a little more specifics, jfm10, short of your town/scum role.

I'm sorry if some of you are put off by my previous posts. I am a former university professor. I've designed and laid-out three large books on elasmobranchs (sharks, rays, and skates), and published numerous other books. I am a freshwater (not marine or saltwater) biologist, and I take the opportunity to educate whenever possible. Obviously, some of you know more than I anticipated. The only mafia game I have hosted was about Hemiptera, or True Bugs, and there was an educational vignette for each player about their true bug species. I believe pershy and Ragian were in that game. Obviously, this is not appreciated with this group, so I will leave you to your own devices.

I should clarify slightly - I don't mind being educated about the subject, I might even enjoy it, but in this thread I consider it off-topic conversation, and now that a deadline has been set it's important to stay on task. In this thread I'm more interested in playing (and winning) the game than in marine biology. Maybe you could organize a lecture or somesuch after the game is over, that could be fun and all our roles would be revealed for a better spotlight, but during the game I'm sorry to say I consider it noise.

[jfm10]

I think I've said more than once, that I expect the types of marine life who are scum to be top predators, not most of the fish species (carnivores or not) in the sea. A sailfish, as I indicated, is not a top predator...more a primary predator.

I am disappointed by jfm10's reply to pressure. He really didn't say anything...."probably the smallest fish in the game." Name your fish and quit pussy-footing around. We can't get a second claim on the same fish if you don't name it. Are you a darter, a sculpin, a shiner, ..what???
I find this scummy. I suggest you tell us a little more specifics, jfm10, short of your town/scum role.

I'm sorry if some of you are put off by my previous posts. I am a former university professor. I've designed and laid-out three large books on elasmobranchs (sharks, rays, and skates), and published numerous other books. I am a freshwater (not marine or saltwater) biologist, and I take the opportunity to educate whenever possible. Obviously, some of you know more than I anticipated. The only mafia game I have hosted was about Hemiptera, or True Bugs, and there was an educational vignette for each player about their true bug species. I believe pershy and Ragian were in that game. Obviously, this is not appreciated with this group, so I will leave you to your own devices.

Tobikera, after playing the last game and wanting me to name my fish has you on my scummiest list now.I will still not name my fish type however i did swim with Nemo in a dentist office for awhile before we freed him.

vote Tobikera

[blacky365]

Jfm, you haven’t given us very much to go on here...
You say ‘protective role’ and a type of fish we wud find in a nemo aquarium!

_______

I fully agree with comments above re getting a claim on D1.

Vote JFM

Why? Which comments are those? The ones about salt and fresh water fish?

No, the desire to get a full claim... at the moment everything is filler, the disagreements are petty and just about how one individual wants to play over the other... I don’t find either side particularly scummy.
If we get a couple of claims or we see some real action then we will start to see who is making sense and who is looking scummy etc

[jfm10]

Jfm, you haven’t given us very much to go on here...
You say ‘protective role’ and a type of fish we wud find in a nemo aquarium!

_______

I fully agree with comments above re getting a claim on D1.

Vote JFM

Why? Which comments are those? The ones about salt and fresh water fish?

No, the desire to get a full claim... at the moment everything is filler, the disagreements are petty and just about how one individual wants to play over the other... I don’t find either side particularly scummy.
If we get a couple of claims or we see some real action then we will start to see who is making sense and who is looking scummy etc

I may not survive the day but to see another DBD wanting to know fish type should put the rest of the players at there guard and blacky i have MEOY now aswell as Tobi>

[blacky365]

It’s not personal mate... and as I said, I don’t particularly care about the fish type... but if we’re going to make someone claim, then it may as well be someone who has already given us something

[jfm10]

Mass claim day 1 is ridiculous, especially in a game where you have tons of possible creatures so even if people claim their it really won't mean anything. Even if a counter claim happens, we don't know if there are multiple animals of the same species.

Unless... they claim sharks or other predators but who on earth would claim those or even mention them unless they are these or know they are in the game.

Agreed...
and pershy, you should know better!
Its abit suspicious of you to even suggest this given the latest DBD game... do you have something you want to tell the group? if you want to admit being scum I wont stop you...

Thats the closest you came to the "as i said" and that pertained to a mass claim.

It’s not personal mate... and as I said, I don’t particularly care about the fish type... but if we’re going to make someone claim, then it may as well be someone who has already given us something

[Ragian]

If you find my way suspicious, you can side with BuJ who always thinks I'm suspicious.

Hey now that shading is uncalled for.

How many times have I lynched you correctly vs mislynched is what matters. (I don't actually know the answer).

Me neither, brother :shrug: It feels like you've only mislynched me

@blacky, as explained by Pika (I think), we always scrutinise the last people voting for a lynch. Especially if they do not allow for the lynchee to claim first. I.e. if scum were to join and hammer e.g. jmf before he could claim, they'd be done for.

@jmf, tokle was hijacked for this game after having started the other. They are not alike. My bet is that Razor had a rough draft that he wanted an experience (albeit loco) mod to check out and balance (to the extent possible).

Scrolling down, I see that beastie has already replied to this @ZaBeast, Tobi never said that he wanted to lynch an inactive (as far as I read him). Dakky misrepresented him. He said that he wanted a claim and argued that you might as well make an inactive claim. It's nothing to do with a policy lynch.

@aage, how do you suggest that we move forward of you don't want jmf to claim? Whom would you like to hear a claim from? I see you and mets are voting for chapcrap. Care to elaborate or reiterate or anoter ate?

FP'ed by jmf.

[Tobikera]

Tobikera, after playing the last game and wanting me to name my fish has you on my scummiest list now.I will still not name my fish type however i did swim with Nemo in a dentist office for awhile before we freed him.

vote Tobikera

Maybe I'm missing something in your response to L-whatever it was. But, when you get pressured to claim, you have to give up something, even if it is a good lie. Just saying I'm a small freshwater fish doesn't qualify. Saying, I'm a rainbow darter, and having already admitted, or said, you have a protective role, wouldn't necessarily tell folks you are the town doctor (or witch doctor). But, if you are lying, and someone else is a Rainbow Darter, because you guessed poorly, then we have you by the short hairs. We already knew you were probably a fish, and if we believed the opening scene and your admission, a freshwater fish. I'm not being scummy demanding what is due when a person is pressed, even if it is a good lie.

[jfm10]

I think I've said more than once, that I expect the types of marine life who are scum to be top predators, not most of the fish species (carnivores or not) in the sea. A sailfish, as I indicated, is not a top predator...more a primary predator.

I am disappointed by jfm10's reply to pressure. He really didn't say anything...."probably the smallest fish in the game." Name your fish and quit pussy-footing around. We can't get a second claim on the same fish if you don't name it. Are you a darter, a sculpin, a shiner, ..what???
I find this scummy. I suggest you tell us a little more specifics, jfm10, short of your town/scum role.

I'm sorry if some of you are put off by my previous posts. I am a former university professor. I've designed and laid-out three large books on elasmobranchs (sharks, rays, and skates), and published numerous other books. I am a freshwater (not marine or saltwater) biologist, and I take the opportunity to educate whenever possible. Obviously, some of you know more than I anticipated. The only mafia game I have hosted was about Hemiptera, or True Bugs, and there was an educational vignette for each player about their true bug species. I believe pershy and Ragian were in that game. Obviously, this is not appreciated with this group, so I will leave you to your own devices.

Maybe I'm missing something in your response to L-whatever it was. But, when you get pressured to claim, you have to give up something, even if it is a good lie. Just saying I'm a small freshwater fish doesn't qualify. Saying, I'm a rainbow darter, and having already admitted, or said, you have a protective role, wouldn't necessarily tell folks you are the town doctor (or witch doctor). But, if you are lying, and someone else is a Rainbow Darter, because you guessed poorly, then we have you by the short hairs. We already knew you were probably a fish, and if we believed the opening scene and your admission, a freshwater fish. I'm not being scummy demanding what is due when a person is pressed, even if it is a good lie.

L3 i am at.Should have taken math Tobi

[BuJaber]

Let's pretend it's L-1.. what are you hoping for jfm voters?

Dude soft claimed unprompted. You either townread that or scumread that. A full claim really doesn't do much except give us a very small chance of a counter claim. A flavor claim tells us absolutely nothing, because a) if the mod is half-decent his actual flavor would not be damning on its own, and b) he has thousands of sea creatures to fake claim with, the odds of a counter flavor claim are microscopic.

Lynch him or not based on his actual posting. So far I haven't seen anything worth scumreading him for. It's a blatant attempt at role fishing. I would guess at least one has to be scum, some are mstakingly thinking that is necessary to progress the game (probably because of lack of experience), and some are gambling a lot on an optimistic counterclaim chance.

Let's lynch one of several people doing nothing via saying nothing.

[blacky365]

Ok, so who do you propose?
Sirius kase, has the fewest posts, so do we go for him?

[Ragian]

That's not what BuJ is saying when he's saying "doing nothing". You're confusing inactivity with posting without content. While Sirius hasn't posted much, there's no way of knowing if he's scummy or not. What we want from him is activity. Maybe a mod prod, Razor? BuJ is suggesting looking at the players posting flavour discussion (that doesn't help town as we have no comparison from any lynch scene or whatever) or commenting on nothing of the ongoing discussions (how trivial they may seem to the untrained eye).

[Tobikera]

Let's pretend it's L-1.. what are you hoping for jfm voters?

Dude soft claimed unprompted. You either townread that or scumread that. A full claim really doesn't do much except give us a very small chance of a counter claim. A flavor claim tells us absolutely nothing, because a) if the mod is half-decent his actual flavor would not be damning on its own, and b) he has thousands of sea creatures to fake claim with, the odds of a counter flavor claim are microscopic.

I was simply arguing on principle. Evidently some here didn't know about pushing someone to L-2 to get a claim. Well, we took jfm10 to L-3 and all he said was he's the smallest freshwater fish on the reef. That's not good enough, whether it is pertinent or not, or whether someone counter claims or not. In principle, you have to say enough, when pressed, to avoid being lynched. For those who did not know about L-2 pressure, that's important to understand, whether it is revealing here or not. jfm10 did not meet that criteria. That was the only point I was making.

@jfm10: Yeah, I was lazy and didn't bother to look. I knew you were somewhere close.

[chapcrap]

@Tobi I enjoy the learning. Don't let aage get you down.

@jfm I agree with Tobi on the claim. Is there a reason to not say your species? It does not make sense to me. Your role (protective) is a lot more potent information than your species and you gave that up like it was a tictac. Are you just waiting for L-2?

[jfm10]

@Tobi I enjoy the learning. Don't let aage get you down.

@jfm I agree with Tobi on the claim. Is there a reason to not say your species? It does not make sense to me. Your role (protective) is a lot more potent information than your species and you gave that up like it was a tictac. Are you just waiting for L-2?

The last game i played was a Tokie game,I had to lynch a person driving a particular car to win.It was a game that had the ability to end after day 1.If this game is designed on that bases then there maybe someone that just has to be apart of the lynch team to get rid of 1 particular fish.

[BuJaber]

Let's pretend it's L-1.. what are you hoping for jfm voters?

Dude soft claimed unprompted. You either townread that or scumread that. A full claim really doesn't do much except give us a very small chance of a counter claim. A flavor claim tells us absolutely nothing, because a) if the mod is half-decent his actual flavor would not be damning on its own, and b) he has thousands of sea creatures to fake claim with, the odds of a counter flavor claim are microscopic.

I was simply arguing on principle. Evidently some here didn't know about pushing someone to L-2 to get a claim. Well, we took jfm10 to L-3 and all he said was he's the smallest freshwater fish on the reef. That's not good enough, whether it is pertinent or not, or whether someone counter claims or not. In principle, you have to say enough, when pressed, to avoid being lynched. For those who did not know about L-2 pressure, that's important to understand, whether it is revealing here or not. jfm10 did not meet that criteria. That was the only point I was making.

@jfm10: Yeah, I was lazy and didn't bother to look. I knew you were somewhere close.

Fine I can understand that to a certain degree but it came after the fact. My problem was that a bunch of people voted for jfm to get him to claim simply because he got softclaimed and because he got a few votes on him. The fact he's holding back now does not come into play to justify the votes, which preceded this.

@jfm - my understanding is the bonus stuff is just extra. I think the normal town and mafia win conditions are in play, anything else is for personal bonus credit. That's what I got from the description in sign ups. I don't think I would have joined if I knew there were alternate or hidden win conditions

[jfm10]

Each role will have a BONUS credit condition, so be careful with what you reveal.. you may be giving someone easy Credits.

[jfm10]

Rather than ending the game , someone maybe looking for a particular species to lynch for extra credits

[Metsfanmax]

@jfm I agree with Tobi on the claim. Is there a reason to not say your species? It does not make sense to me. Your role (protective) is a lot more potent information than your species and you gave that up like it was a tictac. Are you just waiting for L-2?

And I agree with BuJ. Since you've noted that giving up his species doesn't yield much useful information, asking for it anyway appears to be doing something for the appearance of doing something. Or worse, role fishing as scum. If you're going to force him to claim, you'd better be asking for a role claim, or else what is even going on?