INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[TX AG 90]

I guess it's time for me to get off the pot and point my finger at someone. I've been trying to learn and absorb as much as possible and was afraid of making a mistake. I was hoping to wait until Day 2 to really get active, but it looks like we are trying to get someone to L-2 and I'm not convinced jfm is the guy...

Here is my candidate and why:

1. chapcrap

With 16 of us, how many do you think might be scum?

Aren't the ratio's pretty standard and wouldn't chappy already know what they are. This is a small hint that he was trying to contribute something early to throw off suspicion, but nothing of real substance.

How many of us are playing to win the mafia game and how many are attempting to win credits? That could change how the votes are done.

If Chapcrap and his scum friends know who is trying to win and who is just trying to get credits, they'll go after the game winners 1st.

It seems like most of your list are saltwater, but the initial story made me think more of freshwater species learning to survive. Perhaps freshwater are villagers and saltwater are scum? Idk.

Why would he assume saltwater are scum unless he is saltwater and is scum OR he is freshwater and scum and trying to point the finger elsewhere. Just making this kind of speculation seemed "fishy" to me.

While advocating for a mass claim* is somewhat suspect, I find the post that encouraged it far more so. It feels as though either chapcrap was acting in a deliberately divisive manner with that post while covering it up with the throwaway "idk" at the end, or they were merely posting for the sake of posting to look active.

*albeit only flavour, though in this game it's also entirely plausible that flavour information could play a part in bonus objectives which would then have a mechanical effect with regards to bonus ability unlocks and the like...

I agree that the idk at the end was weird ans suspicious.

I'm going to decline to vote during these stages of jocularity. Let's get the serious talks started!

With 16 of us, how many do you think might be scum?

How many of us are playing to win the mafia game and how many are attempting to win credits? That could change how the votes are done.

vote chapcrap

"Let's all speculate on the mafia/town ratio" is about the least interesting thing that one can possibly say that still looks like one is trying to contribute to serious discussion. I read this as a blatant attempt to gain town cred early on.

I totally agree as stated above.

I'm really unsure how my post was divisive at all... Just trying to get out of the unnecessary joke stage. I know it's fun and all and we're all like OMG a real mafia game in the public again! And credits!?! ZOMG!!! But, that's all that post was. Obvi.

Obvi., again, a little throw away "nothing to see here" at the end. First idk and now obvi.

jfm's claim came out of nowhere, IMO. It seems REALLY fishy to me. That being said, I'm not sure if I believe him, but I think if someone is claiming that straight off, we should give them the benefit of the doubt, not lynch him. No one is counterclaiming, so I would believe him at this point.

If jfm is a strong suspect, wouldn't fellow scum be trying to protect him?

You have Ragian listed as voting for two different people. I think his vote is on me.

Another, "look guys, would scum remind the mods that the vote should be on him" response?

While saying nothing about ongoing discussion? Sure, okay.

This is how someone who has an us vs them mentality would reply, not someone who's of the mindset "hey guys, I'm a townie just like you".

Vote Chapcrap

In regards to jfm being hesitant to reveal too much, I see his point. I'm still not sure why he revealed he was a protector early though. Maybe a fear of getting lynched Day 1 and not getting a chance at special credits triggered a bad decision (if he's town).

[chapcrap]

@jfm I agree with Tobi on the claim. Is there a reason to not say your species? It does not make sense to me. Your role (protective) is a lot more potent information than your species and you gave that up like it was a tictac. Are you just waiting for L-2?

And I agree with BuJ. Since you've noted that giving up his species doesn't yield much useful information, asking for it anyway appears to be doing something for the appearance of doing something. Or worse, role fishing as scum. If you're going to force him to claim, you'd better be asking for a role claim, or else what is even going on?

I was asking him what was going on. He answered his reasoning. I don't agree with it. Me saying that it's silly to soft claim your role and not claim your species was not revelatory. I think I can ask whatever I want if someone is getting to a point that they are required to claim.

Fastposted...

@TX - you partially quoted me. Took things out of context and tried to make pretty weak points in general. I mean, you're basic argument to everything was that I was pretending to be good. Acting too good. Maybe that's just because I've good. I've already answered most of what you said, so just go back and get full quotes and read that.

Idk. Obvi.

[Metsfanmax]

@jfm I agree with Tobi on the claim. Is there a reason to not say your species? It does not make sense to me. Your role (protective) is a lot more potent information than your species and you gave that up like it was a tictac. Are you just waiting for L-2?

And I agree with BuJ. Since you've noted that giving up his species doesn't yield much useful information, asking for it anyway appears to be doing something for the appearance of doing something. Or worse, role fishing as scum. If you're going to force him to claim, you'd better be asking for a role claim, or else what is even going on?

I was asking him what was going on. He answered his reasoning. I don't agree with it. Me saying that it's silly to soft claim your role and not claim your species was not revelatory. I think I can ask whatever I want if someone is getting to a point that they are required to claim.

It may or may not be silly on jfm's part to do a soft roleclaim and not a soft flavorclaim. That doesn't explain or justify role fishing on your part, which is exactly what this is doing.

[Ragian]

@Jmf, the tokle game wouldn't necessarily have ended with you managing to lynch me. You would just have met your win condition. In similar fashion, I cannot see the mods make this hullaballoo of a game to have it end D1.

Moreover, who cares if someone gets easy credits?

[TX AG 90]

@Jmf, Moreover, who cares if someone gets easy credits?

This.

However, I think he is more afraid of losing a chance at easy credits.

[TX AG 90]

@TX - you partially quoted me. Took things out of context and tried to make pretty weak points in general. I mean, you're basic argument to everything was that I was pretending to be good. Acting too good. Maybe that's just because I've good. I've already answered most of what you said, so just go back and get full quotes and read that.

I didn't take anything out of context, I just selected quotes individually so I could address them individually.

Also, I never said you were acting too good, just weird. You don't argue like someone who is a townie; you argue like an adversary. If you are one of my town brethren, convince me!

[ZaBeast]

Why? Is your only goal to pressure someone, anyone, into a claim on D1, it doesn't matter who it is? Can't you pick someone who is... I dunno, scummy? The dude already soft-claimed.

I don't see how soft-claiming makes him less scummy. Or are you saying toki should pressure someone else for a claim as he already partially knows jfm's role?

I agree with aage in that you should vote jfm if you think he's scummy and want to have him lynched, not to get a claim out of him. The claiming bit is an occasion for players on the wagon to reassess their vote in regards of jfm's role and shouldn't be the end goal. We are 3-5 days from the deadline, I find it highly unlikely we'll get multiple bandwagons going. Now's the time to convince people to vote for who you think is the scummiest because you won't have a second chance today.

If we get a couple of claims or we see some real action then we will start to see who is making sense and who is looking scummy etc

Looks a lot like role fishing. How would knowing who is the doc, or the cop, ... at this stage help you as a townie? Pressuring multiple people just to get them to claim is harmful to town as it exposes town's PR without any positive repercussion. Also scum have a better idea what to fake-claim (or what not to) the more claims they get.

[Ragian]

@ZaBeast, are you saying that we should steer clear of claims D1 unless someone is acting über scummy? Barring your random slip, there's almost never anything to go on D1, so a lot of players want a claim to move the day forward. Do you disagree with that approach?

[ZaBeast]

nted to lynch an inactive (as far as I read him). Dakky misrepresented him. He said that he wanted a claim and argued that you might as well make an inactive claim. It's nothing to do with a policy lynch.

As far as I'm concerned trying to get a wagon going is trying to lynch someone. If the intent is not to lynch, there is very little actual pressure. Wanting to know the role of someone who isn't active just for the sake of it is even worse.

@ZaBeast, are you saying that we should steer clear of claims D1 unless someone is acting über scummy? Barring your random slip, there's almost never anything to go on D1, so a lot of players want a claim to move the day forward. Do you disagree with that approach?

No, but they should vote for someone they're comfortable lynching. I disagree with pressuring people to reveal their role just for the sake of it though.

[Ragian]

Who are you comfortable lynching now, then?

[blacky365]

I disagree with pressuring people to reveal their role just for the sake of it though.

Why? Are you afraid you will be caught out in a lie if you get pressured?
Seems quite a scummy approach!
If you have nothing to hide why would you be taking this approach?

If we do not get claims then how will we know anything? And dont say from night actions, because there is so little to be learnt from most night actions, unless it can be discussed properly
Surely forcing a claim is the most sensible way of getting a little info that we can potentially use going forward...

[Sirius Kase]

Got the prompt, but don't get it. Isn't it night? I've totally lost track of which day or night it is, and I know I'm not supposed to talk at night.

[Sirius Kase]

Okay, it appears to still be day 1, I made a joke post, and it appears everyone else's post are equally meaningless, but maybe not. Since I don't know what is meant by L-1, L-2, or claim or a host of other terms. I feel i'm in the wrong place. Can't tell difference between a joke or useful informations. As long as people talk in code, I'll just let it pass over my head. I'll reread the thread, try to figure out the code.

[tokle]

Mod Note
It will be day untill the mods say otherwise.

The expressions L-1, L-2 etc. (or sometimes just L1..) mean that there are that many votes remaining before that player is lynched. (i.e. Lynch -1 etc.)
If you are placed in a position where there are only two votes left to lynch you you are considered to be under pressure. In that case it is customary to provide a claim.
A claim is when you tell the other players what your role is. Normally, if you are town, you will then just reveal your role and abilities. However, scum and third-party roles will then usually come up with a fake claim.
A flavour claim would be to say what kind of fish you are, but not revealing the actual role and abilities.

if you have any questions about the lingo, feel free to ask the game mods (Razorvich and myself).

[dakky21]

@Sirius ... L-1, L-2, claims... it was all already answered in previous posts for other newbies in the game but you obviously skimmed through those (and possibly other posts) and skimming is very scummy. You should re-read or if you really think you're in the wrong place, ask to be replaced.

fp'd by Mod

[TX AG 90]

Okay, it appears to still be day 1, I made a joke post, and it appears everyone else's post are equally meaningless, but maybe not. Since I don't know what is meant by L-1, L-2, or claim or a host of other terms. I feel i'm in the wrong place. Can't tell difference between a joke or useful informations. As long as people talk in code, I'll just let it pass over my head. I'll reread the thread, try to figure out the code.

SK, you pretty much have to at least read the messages twice/day in order to keep up. Trying to read 6+ pages at a time is monumental and very confusing. The timing of the posts is just as important as the content.

The lingo does fly fast and furious, but just ask what things are when you read them. Everyone has been helpful when this rookie has asked.

[TX AG 90]

If fp'd "fastposted"?

What does that mean?

[dakky21]

fp'd is fastposted yeah, normally if you don't quote, you are answering to the previous message in the thread... but if someone posts just before you hit "Submit", you will get a message that someone posted before you and you're technically now replying to that new post instead of the one you meant to respond.

[TX AG 90]

I'm still not sure how that works.

Why would chapcrap type fastpost at 11:53 if he was responding to me, the previous message?

Or was he responding to the message before me, fastposted, and THEN added a reply to me. I guess that makes sense. I'm a Forum Novice.

[Sirius Kase]

Okay, I'm caught up. I got put off by all the inside jokes at the top of the thread, but then, people settled down into a real conversation, which is possible even when information is scarce. To tell the truth, my plan was to just spectate for awhile, but I see that would be my own contribution to a dull game, ad we don't want that.

First order of business UNVOTE aage for replying to my initial cry for help.

Flavour is potentially useful, since it could reveal position in the food chain.

Still mulling over the value of a day one lynch....

It wouldn't be much fun for the one eliminated, but then, someone under pressure might reveal. No one is near having enough votes to be lynched, so I'll be an enabler, let someone else make the deciding vote.

VOTE jfm10

He's already revealed stuff, but if he's scum, it's all unreliable obfuscation anyway.

[jfm10]

That's L-2 for me

I am an angel fish .. goodluck everyone.

[jfm10]

And i say goodluck everyone because if i am not lynched today then the scum kill me tonight.

[TX AG 90]

I believe jfm.

Even if the scum kill him tonight, make THEM do the killing. If we lynch him and he is townie, then they are free to kill someone else tonight and we've lost 2.

[blacky365]

Its not that I dont believe JFM, its just he hasnt given us anything... your fish is just flavour and not indication of a role.

[Sirius Kase]

That's a good plan, I don't want to see anyone out so fast, especially if he's truthful about being a protector.

Guardian angel fish, I wonder how that works? If he lives, we might find out.

I hate sounding like a newbie, but I'm sure there's an option for me to be notified when a thread I'm following get's updated. But, I just searched settings and control panel and can't find it. CC used to notify me when threads I followed got updated, but not lately.