INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[dakky21]

Investigative role isn't investigative if I have to lure persons to check me and to find what, only their species? I don't understand, what can anyone learn from the species name? It's not that I'll get their role, but their species.

I decided to stay hidden for the whole game because species is obviously unimportant and if I ambush then I'm not hidden = can be killed at night.

[aage]

Chap, you're skimming. I already said I am hermit but the role is very similar to a Commuter. I can't be targeted at night if I choose that option - it is the default of the role even if I don't send anything in. The other option I have is to ambush others and if successful, I learn their species... But then I'm not hidden and I'm not going to use that, like, ever. So yes as I said before I'm a Hermit, not a Commuter, but I'll continue to be a Commuter as thats a much more common role in mafia world than a Hermit (and actually I couldn't even find a description of that one).

I suppose you're a hermit crab?

I agree with Mets. You're resolved to commute instead of helping town. Sounds like you're not town to me.

Vote Dakky
This vote was long overdue anyway. Town commuters don't claim commuter out of the blue, and anyone who says "you can't kill me" is suspicious, period.

[dakky21]

For one, I don't think you're town.
Second, I don't even mind lynching town!you because you can't be targetted at night, meaning townies can't investigate you and you will never die at night. That makes you a horrible person to have alive at lylo.
Third I don't think I should be lynched if you flip town. It doesn't make me scum.

You are almost full of crap as jfm was. So you "don't even mind lynching town" WHILE you admit that your vote is on town and that makes a townie a horrible person to have alive at lylo.

And when I flip town, you shouldn't be lynched because...? WHAT? I'm lost here, really.

[dakky21]

I suppose you're a hermit crab?

I'm actually a stingray, hiding in the sands

[Metsfanmax]

Investigative role isn't investigative if I have to lure persons to check me and to find what, only their species? I don't understand, what can anyone learn from the species name? It's not that I'll get their role, but their species.

Two reasons it would be helpful:

1) You can disprove fake claims.
2) Although it's possible we won't be able to pick up alignment from many species, and we still haven't resolved questions like whether there's any meaning to freshwater or ocean species, there are some species that I think are pretty likely to be scum. Like, if you find that someone is a shark, I don't put much faith in them being town. If we do later learn that there is some pattern to the species, your information could be quite valuable.

[dakky21]

Mets, while that may be true, I still need someone to check on me to get a result. Especially now when I said so, I don't think any species like "sharks" will be checking. So yeah, you're right, I'm useless to town now.

[Metsfanmax]

Mets, while that may be true, I still need someone to check on me to get a result. Especially now when I said so, I don't think any species like "sharks" will be checking. So yeah, you're right, I'm useless to town now.

So do you think that deciding to reveal this information about yourself with only two votes was a town-aligned thing to do?

[dakky21]

Mets, while that may be true, I still need someone to check on me to get a result. Especially now when I said so, I don't think any species like "sharks" will be checking. So yeah, you're right, I'm useless to town now.

So do you think that deciding to reveal this information about yourself with only two votes was a town-aligned thing to do?

It was supposed to be a counter claim which actually wasn't a counter claim. Jfm said he was the doctor and that he will protect himself during all nights from that point on, and that was the trigger for me to claim as it was unbelievable that there are two night kill immune players. He played badly and I thought I will counter him but that was not the case. He just played badly and now I'm useless. Chain reaction, what else to say...

[Metsfanmax]

Mets, while that may be true, I still need someone to check on me to get a result. Especially now when I said so, I don't think any species like "sharks" will be checking. So yeah, you're right, I'm useless to town now.

So do you think that deciding to reveal this information about yourself with only two votes was a town-aligned thing to do?

It was supposed to be a counter claim which actually wasn't a counter claim. Jfm said he was the doctor and that he will protect himself during all nights from that point on, and that was the trigger for me to claim as it was unbelievable that there are two night kill immune players. He played badly and I thought I will counter him but that was not the case. He just played badly and now I'm useless. Chain reaction, what else to say...

I'm specifically talking about your recent actions on D3, not what happened on D2. When you originally claimed on D2, you said you would learn something about the person who visited you if you ambushed them, but you didn't say what. Now you've given up additional information about what you learn, with no good reason to have done so.

[dakky21]

Mets, while that may be true, I still need someone to check on me to get a result. Especially now when I said so, I don't think any species like "sharks" will be checking. So yeah, you're right, I'm useless to town now.

So do you think that deciding to reveal this information about yourself with only two votes was a town-aligned thing to do?

It was supposed to be a counter claim which actually wasn't a counter claim. Jfm said he was the doctor and that he will protect himself during all nights from that point on, and that was the trigger for me to claim as it was unbelievable that there are two night kill immune players. He played badly and I thought I will counter him but that was not the case. He just played badly and now I'm useless. Chain reaction, what else to say...

I'm specifically talking about your recent actions on D3, not what happened on D2. When you originally claimed on D2, you said you would learn something about the person who visited you if you ambushed them, but you didn't say what. Now you've given up additional information about what you learn, with no good reason to have done so.

But it was you who fished for that info and I seen no problem with giving that information since I said I will hide for the rest of the game.

[dakky21]

I mean what's the difference... I hide for the rest of the game = gain nothing. I don't hide but ambush, still gain nothing since no one will check me because they will think I'm hiding. What's the bloody difference?! I can't investigate anyone on my own so should I be "hey people come investigate me and I won't hide but I will ambush you and reveal your species" ... i mean WTF are you talking about.

[Metsfanmax]

Mets, while that may be true, I still need someone to check on me to get a result. Especially now when I said so, I don't think any species like "sharks" will be checking. So yeah, you're right, I'm useless to town now.

So do you think that deciding to reveal this information about yourself with only two votes was a town-aligned thing to do?

It was supposed to be a counter claim which actually wasn't a counter claim. Jfm said he was the doctor and that he will protect himself during all nights from that point on, and that was the trigger for me to claim as it was unbelievable that there are two night kill immune players. He played badly and I thought I will counter him but that was not the case. He just played badly and now I'm useless. Chain reaction, what else to say...

I'm specifically talking about your recent actions on D3, not what happened on D2. When you originally claimed on D2, you said you would learn something about the person who visited you if you ambushed them, but you didn't say what. Now you've given up additional information about what you learn, with no good reason to have done so.

But it was you who fished for that info and I seen no problem with giving that information since I said I will hide for the rest of the game.

I did not fish for that info. My comment in response to you giving up this information was the first time I'd responded to you since early in D2.

[dakky21]

Mets, while that may be true, I still need someone to check on me to get a result. Especially now when I said so, I don't think any species like "sharks" will be checking. So yeah, you're right, I'm useless to town now.

So do you think that deciding to reveal this information about yourself with only two votes was a town-aligned thing to do?

It was supposed to be a counter claim which actually wasn't a counter claim. Jfm said he was the doctor and that he will protect himself during all nights from that point on, and that was the trigger for me to claim as it was unbelievable that there are two night kill immune players. He played badly and I thought I will counter him but that was not the case. He just played badly and now I'm useless. Chain reaction, what else to say...

I'm specifically talking about your recent actions on D3, not what happened on D2. When you originally claimed on D2, you said you would learn something about the person who visited you if you ambushed them, but you didn't say what. Now you've given up additional information about what you learn, with no good reason to have done so.

But it was you who fished for that info and I seen no problem with giving that information since I said I will hide for the rest of the game.

I did not fish for that info. My comment in response to you giving up this information was the first time I'd responded to you since early in D2.

I'm not sure what to say since I said I can ambush 15 days ago and you skimmed over it obviously. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=229849&p=5092075&hilit=ambush#p5092075

[dakky21]

You're right, I didn't said I will learn the species. But what's the difference anyway.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm not sure what to say since I said I can ambush 15 days ago and you skimmed over it obviously. https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=213&t=229849&p=5092075&hilit=ambush#p5092075

You're right, I didn't said I will learn the species. But what's the difference anyway.

Perhaps you should stop throwing the "skimming" accusation around, it is not working out well for you.

[dakky21]

At least I am talking. Some aren't...

[ZaBeast]

What's also hard to explain is why scum didn't kill SW last night. It's my understanding that if they did, he wouldn't have been able to heal blacky and we would have lost 2 townies N2 (if they are in fact townies).

Afaik your action is still processed even if you're NKed

This is obviously a game where patience is key. Let's give the investigators time to reveal enough for us to work with. Doctors should consider allowing victims to die, unless an investigator can make a case to heal. Or, we can lynch faster, to give the moderator a chance to insert more scenes. But, fast lynches are not normally to towns advantage. So, we need to figure out who to trust and follow their guidance.

My natural tendency is to want to make things happen. So, it seems more natural to me for a poison victim to ask for help and a doctor to render aid. But, some people would rather quietly die with dignity. I get that, but it's not rational. Eventually, you did speak up and admit to being poisoned, but it was so unnatural, it's hard to believe. The rationale is that you aren't poisoned, but just said that so you wouldn't be lynched.[/color]

VOTE Metsfanmax

There, now maybe something will happen.

How can you advocate for no-lynch ("give investigators time to reveal enough for us to work with") and vote for someone on the same post? Doesn't make sense

I said already three people who were most protective of me ... zabeast, mets and skoff... why would they do that unless they know they can't NK me and then be friendly with someone you want dead...

I never said I thought you weren't scum. I'm still undecided on your case. But anyways, let's assume what you said is true (I want you dead and said I thought you were town). How would it make sense for me to try to convince others that you are town if the only way I could have you killed was by lynching you?

That being said I must say I am strongly considering voting him now. For once, he's the one who posted stuff like that on D1 when advocating for a jfm lynch (it doesn't make much sense he would say that if the same could be said about him)

I'll just ask again - even if jfm is telling the truth, you are willing to give him a free pass to the end of the game because he is just useless to town? Ever considered that he is lying and you've given scum the free pass? Defense of jfm could be a town cred play, yes. But it can also be a scum trying to defend a fellow and you sound like you completely disallow that possibility.

And second he claimed for absolutely no reason on D1. jfm claimed he would self-target, which would be akin to him being bulletproof, and that prompted dakky's answer that he was also some sort of non-NK-able role, which is wrong for 2 main reasons
1- jfm is a new player and might have been wrong about being able to self-target in the first place had he been an actual doc.
2- I would say it is possible 2 people would be able to be able to prevent kills against themselves. A claim didn't add anything to the jfm case.

[TX AG 90]

What's also hard to explain is why scum didn't kill SW last night. It's my understanding that if they did, he wouldn't have been able to heal blacky and we would have lost 2 townies N2 (if they are in fact townies).

Afaik your action is still processed even if you're NKed

Are sure about that? Should we check with Raz?

[chapcrap]

Chap, you're skimming. I already said I am hermit but the role is very similar to a Commuter. I can't be targeted at night if I choose that option - it is the default of the role even if I don't send anything in. The other option I have is to ambush others and if successful, I learn their species... But then I'm not hidden and I'm not going to use that, like, ever. So yes as I said before I'm a Hermit, not a Commuter, but I'll continue to be a Commuter as thats a much more common role in mafia world than a Hermit (and actually I couldn't even find a description of that one).

I'm not skimming, you're being confusing as f*ck.

I'm a hermit, not a commuter. But I'll continue to be a commuter. You think that makes sense?

It's more like you're idea is to claim to have half of other people's roles to lynch them (jfm) or get them to come out (real commuter).

[chapcrap]

What's also hard to explain is why scum didn't kill SW last night. It's my understanding that if they did, he wouldn't have been able to heal blacky and we would have lost 2 townies N2 (if they are in fact townies).

Afaik your action is still processed even if you're NKed

Are sure about that? Should we check with Raz?

It's an order of operations thing. Like you multiply before you add in math. Same with night actions. So, the order depends on the roles available and the mod's choices in game mechanics. Not sure how much Raz can reveal... But, you could get killed and still have a night action.

[dakky21]

Chap, you're skimming. I already said I am hermit but the role is very similar to a Commuter. I can't be targeted at night if I choose that option - it is the default of the role even if I don't send anything in. The other option I have is to ambush others and if successful, I learn their species... But then I'm not hidden and I'm not going to use that, like, ever. So yes as I said before I'm a Hermit, not a Commuter, but I'll continue to be a Commuter as thats a much more common role in mafia world than a Hermit (and actually I couldn't even find a description of that one).

I'm not skimming, you're being confusing as f*ck.

I'm a hermit, not a commuter. But I'll continue to be a commuter. You think that makes sense?

It's more like you're idea is to claim to have half of other people's roles to lynch them (jfm) or get them to come out (real commuter).

I don't know. I'm a hermit and the role is like commuter. Put it like you wish...

[Sirius Kase]

Chap, you're skimming. I already said I am hermit but the role is very similar to a Commuter. I can't be targeted at night if I choose that option - it is the default of the role even if I don't send anything in. The other option I have is to ambush others and if successful, I learn their species... But then I'm not hidden and I'm not going to use that, like, ever. So yes as I said before I'm a Hermit, not a Commuter, but I'll continue to be a Commuter as thats a much more common role in mafia world than a Hermit (and actually I couldn't even find a description of that one).

I'm not skimming, you're being confusing as f*ck.

I'm a hermit, not a commuter. But I'll continue to be a commuter. You think that makes sense?

It's more like you're idea is to claim to have half of other people's roles to lynch them (jfm) or get them to come out (real commuter).

I don't know. I'm a hermit and the role is like commuter. Put it like you wish...

But you aren't a hermit crab, you are a sting ray. Yes, we can read what you write, it's making sense out of it that isn't possible.

[dakky21]

I just don't know what to say about myself anymore, I think I said everything. Sue me if I left something.

Stingray, Ambusher secondary role and can find species, Hermit but same as Commuter and useless to town.

Now lynch me and see I said the truth and then question who was on me, but you won't because no one actually questioned what happened before. I'm really starting to think scum are experienced players who know how to handle this situation and I'll say again : Mets, ZaBeast, Skoffin (she didn't post for some time), BuJaber, Pika perhaps... I'm saying this because what we know from Pershy and jfm lynches? Nothing. And anyone of these experienced players didn't ask any question about it and the game is stalling like no one cares what really happens.

[Sirius Kase]

@SK about no-lynch/lynch debate
You might also want to read the essays over there: viewtopic.php?f=609&t=222775

o
Thanks, very much, ZaBeast.

Rereading Day 1, the first real debate that mattered was not who to lynch, but whether to lynch at all on day 1. Rhetoric doesn't have to be true to be persuasive. We were tricked into lynching a townee, that's old news. Now I'd like to know who is responsible. it seems stupid to lynch randomly when most players are town. But, somehow, the Day 1 lynch is a good idea faction persuaded us and I'm trying to figure out why. If I had access to previous games, I'd want to see if anyone was for Day 1 lynch only when scum. People play differently when they are scum, so I hear. I don't have access to enough old games to verify for myself, but I'm working at it. More experienced players, please discuss.

[dakky21]

Can't you see whats going on here... Serius going with ZaBeast, Skoffin defending me, I tell you we have factions or two towns....