What if it's not the dice?

-=LRK=- · Post by **-=LRK=-** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:56 am

People complain about the dice being lopsided, but what if it's the maps? When I go to Random.org I get some randomness, and I don't have issue with that. However, I can loose round after round trying to take a single piece of land. Like, Chamber 1 to Throne (in Siege), or Cloudrest or Sentinel to Stros M'Kai in Tamriel. I've had other maps where I just couldn't take this single property. How can it roll 6's 5 times in a row? Damn good odds. I also find that Neutral lands are tougher as well to take over.

Ok, you can tell me I am wrong now.

alex_white101 · Post by **alex_white101** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 9:59 am

i personally, tho i complain about the dice when they rnt in my favour, think they are perfectly random. i cant say ive ever experienced the same territory being difficult to take, but maybe these are the territories u normally aim for hence uve attacked it more and so u remember more times where u have lost heavily. just a thougt anyways.

DiM · Post by **DiM** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:03 am

it has nothing to do with the maps. that's just superstition. yes i've had some terits that really were impossible to conquer. but that's just coincidence.

TipTop · Post by **TipTop** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 10:46 am

Isn't it funny that all these threads are started by someone who is experiencing short term bad luck.

JoeCorden · Post by **JoeCorden** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:14 pm

One thing I've always wondered, is the initial placement based on random.org too?

decoulombe · Post by **decoulombe** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 12:26 pm

Hey, it works the other way to. I think once I conquered a territory containing six armies with only three. It was just random luck.

-=LRK=- · Post by **-=LRK=-** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:25 pm

I disagree with the Random Luck theory. If I go to Random.org, and select 4 dice (3 attacking 1) and I see die #4 pick different numbers, they all jump around. However, I just played and the single defender rolled 6,6,5,6,4,6 before I finally beat it with a 4. That kind of thing happens a lot. It also seems expected that on roll #1 if I win both dice, then the roll #2 is a split, then roll #3 is defenders for both dice, then roll #4 is split, then roll #5 is both mine.

Yesterday I had a big fight (15 each) and I walked all over him with 6's and 5's. It just seems predictable that when they are good they are good and bad is bad. It's just that when I go to random.org, the dice jump around, and it doesn't feel that way here sometimes. I was just guessing that maybe the XML was influencing the dice rolls unintentionally or something.

papadopo · Post by **papadopo** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:32 pm

I think its the TIME...

sometimes i win every battle and sometimes i loose them all and i think it makes sense too if the following is true:

The way CC gets the random numbers is that they get a 'page' with all possible dice rolls in 'lines'. Each possible dice roll in each line'. The lines are placed on the page in a random order.
Then each dice roll request by CC uses the next available 'line'. When the 'page' is used up, another page is generated by Random.org and used by CC.
The thing is that when a specific dice roll has been used up from the page (say, three sixes) it will not come up again until the page is changed. This means that when the request is made by a game for a dice roll, you don't really have equal % for ALL possible dice rolls... you will never get the used up ones

Is the above true?

GreecePwns · Post by **GreecePwns** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:36 pm

papadopo wrote:I think its the TIME...

sometimes i win every battle and sometimes i loose them all and i think it makes sense too if the following is true:

The way CC gets the random numbers is that they get a 'page' with all possible dice rolls in 'lines'. Each possible dice roll in each line'. The lines are placed on the page in a random order.
Then each dice roll request by CC uses the next available 'line'. When the 'page' is used up, another page is generated by Random.org and used by CC.
The thing is that when a specific dice roll has been used up from the page (say, three sixes) it will not come up again until the page is changed. This means that when the request is made by a game for a dice roll, you don't really have equal % for ALL possible dice rolls... you will never get the used up ones

Is the above true?

This could be a possibility.

Papadopo, could you be related to me in some way?

papadopo · Post by **papadopo** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:42 pm

you think we are related GreecePwns?

lol, I dont have any relatives from Greece... I have some that are Olimpiakos fans though, all Cypriot...

Wisse · Post by **Wisse** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:55 pm

its treu i thought lack did say something like that

GreecePwns · Post by **GreecePwns** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 1:59 pm

papadopo wrote:you think we are related GreecePwns?

lol, I dont have any relatives from Greece... I have some that are Olimpiakos fans though, all Cypriot...

oh well...at least i tried...so your not related to this guy?

chessplaya · Post by **chessplaya** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 2:50 pm

again a stupid thread

hey ur not better then most of the ppl that start stupid threads so here u go : GFY!

Cheers

Mylittlepuddykat · Post by **Mylittlepuddykat** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 3:20 pm

I dont think it can be - I've rolled the same thing twice before e.g in my last game I rolled 134 and my oponent rolled 53 twice.

-=LRK=- · Post by **-=LRK=-** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 4:40 pm

I *KNOW* it's the time, too. I've noticed that M-F mornings until 12:30ish I get better luck attacking. Nights I notice lousy attacks, where it's completely noticeable, and not worth playing. Mid-afternoons and weekends produce more random numbers. I wonder if it does have to do with how many people are playing/asking for numbers. Look, all I am saying is, if I roll a single die, I am not going to roll 6,6,5,6,4,6. It's not likely to happen. Oh, whatever. I just need to play less often, this way I won't notice, or care.

JMody · Post by **JMody** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 5:09 pm

Here is my theory. The dice are not as random as they should be. You can say its random and watch the defending dice roll 6's 5 times in a roll. It's just not possible if it is random. What makes it "random" is the fact that one day you have shit rolls. The next your rolling like a god.
My theory.

JoeCorden · Post by **JoeCorden** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 6:55 pm

Technically though, if it is random, there is just as much chance of the defender rolling 1 million 6's in a row than any other combination of numbers.

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:21 pm

papadopo wrote:I think its the TIME...

sometimes i win every battle and sometimes i loose them all and i think it makes sense too if the following is true:

The way CC gets the random numbers is that they get a 'page' with all possible dice rolls in 'lines'. Each possible dice roll in each line'. The lines are placed on the page in a random order.
Then each dice roll request by CC uses the next available 'line'. When the 'page' is used up, another page is generated by Random.org and used by CC.
The thing is that when a specific dice roll has been used up from the page (say, three sixes) it will not come up again until the page is changed. This means that when the request is made by a game for a dice roll, you don't really have equal % for ALL possible dice rolls... you will never get the used up ones

Is the above true?

Wow, thanks for the info. Now I've actually got a strategy heading into attacks. If I lose 2 then I'll quickly roll again because there is 1 less bad outcome on the page. If I win 2 then that means there is 1 less good out come, so I'll wait for a while for a new page to generate in order to increase my chances of a good roll.

Bavarian Raven · Post by **Bavarian Raven** » Sat Jun 16, 2007 7:25 pm

...or u just really pissed off the dice gods...

papadopo · Post by **papadopo** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:04 am

GreecePwns wrote:
papadopo wrote:you think we are related GreecePwns?

lol, I dont have any relatives from Greece... I have some that are Olimpiakos fans though, all Cypriot...
oh well...at least i tried...so your not related to this guy?

ok. this is creepy... how the h did you figure out my first name!!??

Riao · Post by **Riao** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:23 am

papadopo wrote:...if the following is true:

The way CC gets the random numbers is that they get a 'page' with all possible dice rolls in 'lines'. Each possible dice roll in each line'. The lines are placed on the page in a random order.
Then each dice roll request by CC uses the next available 'line'. When the 'page' is used up, another page is generated by Random.org and used by CC.
The thing is that when a specific dice roll has been used up from the page (say, three sixes) it will not come up again until the page is changed. This means that when the request is made by a game for a dice roll, you don't really have equal % for ALL possible dice rolls... you will never get the used up ones

Is the above true?

I can't believe that. If that's the case then the rolls are not random at all. What would be random is if that "page" was replaced after each and every roll, and then a roll was randomly selected off each page as it was created. Random.org supposedly handles many online gambling sites. I can just see people making pages for the roulette wheel then crossing off numbers as they go. Holding off the large bets until the page shows the odds in favor, and then going big.

maniacmath17 · Post by **maniacmath17** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 3:42 am

It also explains the "streakyness" of the dice. If someone out there has a run of great rolls, then whoever rolls after that person is rolling from a page with less good rolls left and is more likely to hit a streak of bad rolls.

There's got to be a better way.

papadopo · Post by **papadopo** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 5:50 am

papadopo wrote:I think its the TIME...

sometimes i win every battle and sometimes i loose them all and i think it makes sense too if the following is true:

The way CC gets the random numbers is that they get a 'page' with all possible dice rolls in 'lines'. Each possible dice roll in each line'. The lines are placed on the page in a random order.
Then each dice roll request by CC uses the next available 'line'. When the 'page' is used up, another page is generated by Random.org and used by CC.
The thing is that when a specific dice roll has been used up from the page (say, three sixes) it will not come up again until the page is changed. This means that when the request is made by a game for a dice roll, you don't really have equal % for ALL possible dice rolls... you will never get the used up ones

Is the above true?

Of course, true or not, as long as we all get our dice the same way (random or not) the game result is fair

decoulombe · Post by **decoulombe** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:18 pm

It appears to me the dice are fair since even if you argue its TIME or SPACE or the way you click your mouse or the condition of your weegie board or just shear luck since every person has the same and equal chance and opportunity to roll the die with the same company. It's obvious Randomn.org can't decide today player 1 is going to win and tommorow to lose. True one can argue there's more of a chance player 1 gets a roll of six's but so does player 2, and if it's time then player 2 has equal access to that time. Argue the rules but at least the rules are the same for everyone. The only exception to that policy of course would be player one who has an advantage over player two, etc. since he had the first move. But that's the RISK you take.

-=LRK=- · Post by **-=LRK=-** » Sun Jun 17, 2007 1:50 pm

No, it's not fair. Fair, as we expect to play, means win some/loose some. I just hit auto-attack and the single defender, against my 13+ army, rolled 6,6,6,6,5 before I finally got him. I was JUST complaining about those odds yesterday. If you go to Random.org directly, you will NOT get dice rolls like that. BTW- it was also a neutral owner, which I also mentioned is harder to kill.

I just went again, another map, and he rolls 5,5,6,6,6,6,4,6,6 all beating me, before I got him with, another 6. That was how many guys to take out a little blip of land? Once is pretty neat. Regularly and there are issues. Maybe it's not the issue that it randomly picked 6, 6 times out of 9 but that 8 were high numbers. As a defender, ties go in his favor.

I just went to random.org and picked various numbers of dice. Those numbers went up and down, some duplicates, but mostly changed. It doesn't seem that way here, even when it isn't going against me.