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POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

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Even out as best the amount of game a player start each round (2 players game only)

Poll ended at Mon Aug 10, 2020 5:06 pm

Yes
86
91%
No
8
9%
 
Total votes : 94

POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Mad777 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:06 pm

Hi fellow members, from many suggestions out there, I have selected few that I think would be very useful to be implement, for this I'm presenting a series of site wide poll to demonstrate the pros & cons to our webmaster and confirm or not the subject suggestion is strongly supported or strongly denied by the members. Feel free to send message to your CC friend about it, also feel free to post any comment about this subject suggestion, either why you would like it or why you don't want it.

I have added a section at the bottom of this OP listing "Pros & Cons" from your upcoming comments.

Any member from this site can vote, once you vote, you won't be able to change it, poll to be up for maximum 30 days.


Now, there is few "No-No" behaviors about those poll threads I will enforce, such as;
  • No trolling
  • No out-of-subject posting
  • Respect others' point of view
  • Any kind of posting nuisance I feel appropriate to call it as is

Sorry for those who feel it is too much, but understand I would prefer to have a clear picture throughout your posting and to report back to webmaster, instead of wasting my time to police the topic with unrelated stuff.

For any violation, and to those who still want to challenge the above, I will give a 24hrs Forum ban, if a same member still persisting then a 72hrs Forum ban to be given, after that it will be up to admin to extend as appropriate the next level of sanction.

Thanks for your understanding and look forward to read from you all, each upcoming Poll to be under the same format, same "ruling", as soon as one end I will post the next one and until I have exhausted the list that was presented to webmaster.

Pros:
  • ...
Cons:
  • ...
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Mad777 on Sat Jul 11, 2020 5:09 pm

To make it more clear, the goal is to find out if the Community is accepting the auto tournament coding to be made such a way a player would start almost the same amount of game, exemple:

Best of 3, each player would start one game and the 3rd game to be assign randomly
Best of 5, each player would start two games and the 5th game to be assign randomly
best-of 4, each players would start 2 games
so on so forth...
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby riskllama on Sat Jul 11, 2020 9:38 pm

seems fair.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby esbiete on Sat Jul 11, 2020 11:56 pm

Another option:

- who has less points starts the last round, but if both have the same points: random start.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Endgame422 on Sun Jul 12, 2020 3:37 pm

I feel like this is especially relevant to the map masters series that's ongoing. Getting zero starts on say pearl harbor is pretty close to a guarantee that your not moving on.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby YukFoo on Sun Jul 12, 2020 7:08 pm

Sure making things random would certainly be a good idea. Maybe can start with the dice!

My only question is, if we are trying to make things random now, then that means they are NOT currently random, and well, that explains LOTS!

In the Map Masters tournament, I got all 3 starts on the Pearl Harbor map, and I think I am going to get 3 very easy wins against a skilled player. That suggests a problem...
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Mad777 on Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:14 pm

what are you talking about? the purpose of this poll is to suggest to even out the amount of game start per player, currently it’s purely random.

Not sure if i missed something from your post :?
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby riskllama on Sun Jul 12, 2020 8:53 pm

you sure did.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Maxleod on Mon Jul 13, 2020 5:48 am

No. Luck is part of this game.At the core. Do not remove it.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Pirlo on Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:02 am

Yeah, much better than going last in 5/5 games!
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby shoop76 on Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:36 am

I actually don´t like this. Yes it sucks not to get starts, but its part of the game.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Big Al 2012 on Mon Jul 13, 2020 9:47 am

I was one who got to go first 0/nill/nada/zero/ times in the 6 first round games of the Map Master's Pearl Harbor. (Not that I'm at all bitter :lol: ) So whilst "Luck" as some would say "is a part of the game, and so tough..." I get it. But do you not think this would improve the game? If the aim of these polls is to make the game more accessible and improve it for all, then surely the only response to this poll is "Yes"?
I was thinking about it from a "real life" perspective, if you were playing the same person more than once (in any game, not just Risk) you'd usually take it in turns to go first. So to have that be the case here would make the game more accessible and more in tune with real life.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby yvesyves on Mon Jul 13, 2020 10:11 am

Personaly I'm in favour for equalizing the chances. The only thing I would add is that it depends of the mapps. Some mapps are more easy to come back in the game even if you start second but some of them after the first round you have no chance to battle back. By the way thanks Mad for those Poll and trying to make the game more plaisant to play
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Maxleod on Mon Jul 13, 2020 12:47 pm

Pirlo wrote:Yeah, much better than going last in 5/5 games!


I recently went last in 5/5 games. In a tournament. And I don't mind. CARDS, DICE, LUCK. Part of the game, period.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Maxleod on Mon Jul 13, 2020 2:42 pm

Big Al 2012 wrote: But do you not think this would improve the game?


No, I don't. I think it would rape/desrtroy/betray the game. Go play Chess or Checkers.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Dukasaur on Mon Jul 13, 2020 6:41 pm

YukFoo wrote:My only question is, if we are trying to make things random now, then that means they are NOT currently random

No, they are currently random. This proposal is about making things balanced. Pretty much the antithesis of random.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Fuchsia tude on Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:19 pm

Mad777 wrote:To make it more clear, the goal is to find out if the Community is accepting the auto tournament coding to be made such a way a player would start almost the same amount of game, exemple:

Best of 3, each player would start one game and the 3rd game to be assign randomly
Best of 5, each player would start two games and the 5th game to be assign randomly
best-of 4, each players would start 2 games
so on so forth...


Instead of the last game in an odd-sized series randomized, why not base it on wins? So if player A wins game 1, then player B goes first in game 2. If player B wins game 1 and 2 in a Bo5, then A starts both game 2 and 3.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby lawz21 on Mon Jul 13, 2020 7:36 pm

I feel like the most fair thing would be to not let the person who goes first the ability to attack. Make them wait until the second round while the person who goes second can attack when they both have the same amount of troops. Just a thought
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby YukFoo on Tue Jul 14, 2020 6:04 pm

Dukasaur wrote:
YukFoo wrote:My only question is, if we are trying to make things random now, then that means they are NOT currently random

No, they are currently random. This proposal is about making things balanced. Pretty much the antithesis of random.


Oh you want to balance out the randomness?

Instead of the current unbalanced randomness.

However you call it, still seems like a good idea!
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby TX AG 90 on Wed Jul 15, 2020 1:03 pm

Maxleod wrote:
Big Al 2012 wrote: But do you not think this would improve the game?


No, I don't. I think it would rape/desrtroy/betray the game. Go play Chess or Checkers.


It doesn't "betray" the game, it just mitigates some of the luck (someone will still have a luck advantage in odd number sets). The more we can mitigate luck, the more important skill becomes.

You say if we want skill, stick to chess. I say if you want a game that's based on luck, go flip a coin with your neighbor.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby bamage on Wed Jul 15, 2020 9:49 pm

lawz21 wrote:I feel like the most fair thing would be to not let the person who goes first the ability to attack. Make them wait until the second round while the person who goes second can attack when they both have the same amount of troops. Just a thought


I totally agree with this. Problem solved. It would actually turn EVERY game into a more equal game, not just divvy up the advantages. And it takes the question of the odd game (e.g. the third game) off the table. It would also address the foggy courtesy rule effectively. It's a perfect solution.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby Mad777 on Sun Jul 19, 2020 1:29 pm

bamage wrote:
lawz21 wrote:I feel like the most fair thing would be to not let the person who goes first the ability to attack. Make them wait until the second round while the person who goes second can attack when they both have the same amount of troops. Just a thought


I totally agree with this. Problem solved. It would actually turn EVERY game into a more equal game, not just divvy up the advantages. And it takes the question of the odd game (e.g. the third game) off the table. It would also address the foggy courtesy rule effectively. It's a perfect solution.


It wouldn't with game with high bonus start such as Pearl Harbor for instance, if the first to start would only deploy with a +15 Bonus while the player starting second only have +8 to put down and to attack a stack of 18, where this would even out the advantage? looks like back to square one IMO
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby t4mcr53s2 on Sun Jul 19, 2020 4:10 pm

in faor of starts being as close to 50-50

unrelated, the idea of deploy only for player 1 has merit ; yes its a penalthy when player 2 has a bonus , but gives platyer 2 a better chance if player 1 has a bonus, or those maps where players start with nx4 terts like Portugal (12 terts each and deploy= 1+/3terts)
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby meno71 on Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:28 pm

Endgame422 wrote:I feel like this is especially relevant to the map masters series that's ongoing. Getting zero starts on say pearl harbor is pretty close to a guarantee that your not moving on.


I was going to mention Pearl Harbor as well. In my six games the person who went first won every one. I was going to go look at how that played out over the entire series.

Big maps with lots of bonuses result in a huge advantage for the player who goes first in a two player game.
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Re: POLL - Auto Tournament game start advantage

Postby bamage on Mon Jul 20, 2020 9:29 am

There is no scenario - even this one - where the start wouldn't be "more fair" if the first person wasn't able to attack. I don't think you understand the recommendation. In your scenario, left the way things are, that first player would be able to attack and would take permanent control of the game. At least this way the second player would have a chance.

Your objection is that it doesn't perfectly address the problem, in certain circumstances. It's a huge, easily implemented improvement. Not sure how you get "back to square one" from your objection.

And, like I pointed out, it also addresses the foggy courtesy-rule issue, perfectly.


Mad777 wrote:
bamage wrote:
lawz21 wrote:I feel like the most fair thing would be to not let the person who goes first the ability to attack. Make them wait until the second round while the person who goes second can attack when they both have the same amount of troops. Just a thought


I totally agree with this. Problem solved. It would actually turn EVERY game into a more equal game, not just divvy up the advantages. And it takes the question of the odd game (e.g. the third game) off the table. It would also address the foggy courtesy rule effectively. It's a perfect solution.


It wouldn't with game with high bonus start such as Pearl Harbor for instance, if the first to start would only deploy with a +15 Bonus while the player starting second only have +8 to put down and to attack a stack of 18, where this would even out the advantage? looks like back to square one IMO
Penny Becquey (PBecquey) does not observe the 12-hour courtesy rule in foggy tournaments, even when virtually everyone else does. She needs all the advantage she can get, but that doesn't make it okay. Spread the word.
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