Who take vaccine?

[saxitoxin]

Saxi said some dangers of the Frankenvax would only emerge over time. And, as time progresses, more dangers emerge.

U.S. health officials are investigating reports that Moderna Inc's (MRNA.O) COVID-19 vaccine may be linked to a higher risk of a rare heart condition than previously thought, the Washington Post reported late on Thursday, citing people familiar with the review.

https://www.reuters.com/world/us/us-pro ... 021-08-20/

Too late for the jabbed. But no one wants to admit they've been poisoned. Instead of accepting their sacrifice to science and seeking to save others from the poison, they react aggressively and demand others submit to the poison, too.

NO wonder saxi did not take the COVID vaccine; he was waiting for such DIRE DRASTIC news about how dangerous it is. IT does not really matter as he already suffers from ED.

The investigation that is focused on Canadian data suggests that risks of myocarditis might especially be higher for males below the age of 30 or so, according to the report.

The key words here (from saxi's source) are "may" and "might." That is Science, always looking at the Data and trying to better understand the situation. And, UNLIKE saxi, who instead starts with a conclusion and then seeks MINOR and rather INSIGNFICANT DATA THAT MAY Provide a contrary view to the OVERALL CONSENSUS. And saxi, to use your ONLY yardstick, how many have DIED from this POSSIBLE issue? NONE you say? NONE that you can cite? Really?????? You fail again, so try harder, not softer.

Some of us can recognize a trajectory when we see one. Others are lobsters who don't recognize the water is only gradually reaching a boil.

Over time, "totally safe" becomes "mostly safe" becomes "might not be safe" becomes ...

[2dimes]

In Sydney today, the weekslong rebellion continued as Anti-Death Jab protesters battled police, on several occasions defeating police cavalry and pushing the jackboots back. The premier of New South Wales was reportedly evacuated due to concerns the freedom protesters might overthrow the government. Police, for the first time, had to resort to rubber bullets in a desperate attempt to control the throngs.

You have switched sides. It's impressive in a way. I like to think you may actually wear a jacket inside out when you post now.

I would like to see Woodruff return and quote you, to chronicle the transition.

Starting from when you wrote, "the police should get those airport style fire trucks to hose down protestors."[sic] Working up to contrast that Saxitoxin, with the current dirty hippy police force defunding anti vax nut job.

It would be fascinating.

[Dukasaur]

The CDC estimates that COVID-19 vaccination reduces the risk of SARS-CoV-2 infection by eight-fold and the risk of getting ill, being hospitalized, or dying by 25-fold.

from NatGeo

this.

[saxitoxin]

BREAKING: Jesse Jackson and his wife are both clinging to their lives in hospital after being infected with COVID-19. The Jacksons, who attended Barack Obama's super spreader birthday bash on Martha's Vineyard, were both fully vaccinated.

This is going beyond "breakthrough cases." The vaccines don't work.

Widespread immunity is causing mutations that evade the vaccines. This is Virology 101; it's how viruses operate. The more people who get vaccinated, the more exotic mutations will occur. We have evidence that's what's happening.

There are only two ways to stop the virus:
(a) Vaccinate and shelter the vulnerable only using the leaky vaccines we have available, while letting the virus run through the rest of the population until it eventually becomes less pathogenic, OR,
(b) Develop a non-leaky vaccine

Unfortunately, Option A is now off the table. Too many low-risk people selfishly got vaxxed (and, yes, I agree that not enough high-risk people did get vaxxed).

President Trump launched Operation Warp Speed to quickly develop imperfect stop-gap vaccines -- leaky vaccines -- to minimize death among the vulnerable and buy the world time for a permanent solution. And it worked. Unfortunately, Biden and his political doctors have reimagined it as a Cure All all for Biden's short-term gain ... it was never intended to be a Cure All. This is turning out to be a bigger disaster than the Afghanistan withdrawal.

[saxitoxin]

Things are moving rapidly now. The BBC is now asking the question that, a week ago, none would have dared to ask.

[jusplay4fun]

BREAKING: Jesse Jackson and his wife are both clinging to their lives in hospital after being infected with COVID-19. The Jacksons, who attended Barack Obama's super spreader birthday bash on Martha's Vineyard, were both fully vaccinated.

This is going beyond "breakthrough cases." The vaccines don't work.

Widespread immunity is causing mutations that evade the vaccines. This is Virology 101; it's how viruses operate. The more people who get vaccinated, the more exotic mutations will occur. We have evidence that's what's happening.

There are only two ways to stop the virus:
(a) Vaccinate and shelter the vulnerable only, while letting the virus run through the rest of the population until it eventually becomes less pathogenic, OR,
(b) Develop a non-leaky vaccine

Unfortunately, Option A is now off the table. Too many low-risk people selfishly got vaxxed. President Trump launched Operation Warp Speed to quickly develop stop-gap vaccines -- leaky vaccines -- to minimize death among the vulnerable and buy the world time for a permanent solution. And it worked. Unfortunately, Biden has reimagined it as a Cure All all for his short-term political gain ... something it was never intended to be. This is turning out to be a bigger disaster than the Afghanistan withdrawal.

Several things are JUST WRONG about this post:

1) saxi two hypotheses are wrong. PERIOD.

2) Jesse Jackson is over 70 and that puts him at risk from COVID. In fact, he (and his wife) are over 75.

Older adults are more likely to get severely ill from COVID-19. More than 80% of COVID-19 deaths occur in people over age 65, and more than 95% of COVID-19 deaths occur in people older than 45.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/need-extra-precautions/people-with-medical-conditions.html

Obesity Worsens Outcomes from COVID-19
Adults with excess weight are at even greater risk during the COVID-19 pandemic:

Having obesity increases the risk of severe illness from COVID-19. People who are overweight may also be at increased risk.
Having obesity may triple the risk of hospitalization due to a COVID-19 infection.
Obesity is linked to impaired immune function.2,3
Obesity decreases lung capacity and reserve and can make ventilation more difficult.4

https://www.cdc.gov/obesity/data/obesity-and-covid-19.html

3) Jesse Jackson IS NOT near death.

Rev. Jesse Jackson Sr. and Wife Hospitalized After Testing Positive for COVID-19
Published 1 hour ago • Updated 27 mins ago

In a statement, the organization said the reverend, who is 79 years old, and Jacqueline Jackson, 77, were admitted to Northwestern Memorial Hospital in Chicago. Their conditions haven't been released.

https://www.nbcchicago.com/news/local/rev-jesse-jackson-and-wife-hospitalized-after-testing-positive-for-covid-19/2595593/

BOTTOM LINE: JUST because Jesse Jackson, Sr. is hospitalized due to COVID proves NOTHING. saxi fails AGAIN and repeats his mistakes of overstating his case. PERIOD.

[saxitoxin]

2) Jesse Jackson is over 70 and that puts him at risk from COVID. In fact, he (and his wife) are over 75.

Up until this morning, this was the talking point ...

Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-relea ... no-serious

Jesse Jackson and his wife were fully vaccinated and are both now laying in an intensive care unit in the hospital with tubes running out of them. By definition, that means the vaccine is not "100% effective in preventing severe disease."

The vax lobby change the talking points daily. The vaxxed, who are too terrified to admit they've willingly had an ineffective drug injected into them for which they have no recourse in event something goes wrong, simply accept the daily flip-flops without batting an eye. Confronting the reality of the permanent and irreversible change they've just made to their bodies - based on faltering evidence - is too much to bear.

[jusplay4fun]

so called "leaky vaccines"

https://www.forbes.com/sites/andreamorris/2021/08/08/joe-rogan-is-getting-this-completely-wrong-says-the-scientist-who-conducted-the-vaccine-study/?sh=77aba1bb7bd1

Trying to counter the lies saxi keeps spewing is becoming like a FULL-TIME job.

‘Joe Rogan Is Getting This Completely Wrong,’ Says The Scientist Who Conducted The Vaccine Study

“Joe Rogan is getting this completely wrong,” says Andrew Read, professor of biology and entomology at Pennsylvania State. “He's taking very careful work about evolutionary scenarios of the future, and from that, erroneously concluding that people should not be vaccinated now.”

Rogan quotes a line from the paper’s abstract out of context: “Vaccines that keep hosts alive but still allow transmission could thus allow very virulent strains to circulate in a population.”

Read responds: “We're talking a very different virus and very different vaccines. The details in biology really matter a lot. The chicken vaccines we worked with, the first-generation vaccine, definitely reduced disease, severity and death.” But unlike the COVID mRNA vaccines, the chicken vaccine “didn't stop transmission at all.” And this is one of the key differences between what was being studied in Read’s paper and our current situation with the global pandemic. “Those [vaccinated] chickens just kept churning out the virus for weeks and weeks and weeks.” Again, this is a key difference. “It’s a very different virus from SARS-2. A key issue here is transmissibility.”

MOVING on in the same article:

Are mRNA vaccines ‘leaky’?

Rogan seems to think that mRNA vaccines are quite leaky because of breakthrough infections. Read points out that no vaccine is 100% effective. Although we still need more data to determine how leaky they are, the rate of breakthrough infections in vaccinated people remains statistically low enough to consider the mRNA vaccines highly effective at preventing infection.

“We don't know at the moment how leaky these things are. It's conceivable that they are actually close to non-leaky. I'm amazed how good these mRNA vaccines are. They're incredibly good.”

[saxitoxin]

“We don't know at the moment how leaky these things are.”

Agreed. It's scary.

[jusplay4fun]

2) Jesse Jackson is over 70 and that puts him at risk from COVID. In fact, he (and his wife) are over 75.

Up until this morning, this was the talking point ...

Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-relea ... no-serious

Jesse Jackson and his wife were fully vaccinated and are both now laying in an intensive care unit in the hospital with tubes running out of them. By definition, that means the vaccine is not "100% effective in preventing severe disease."

The vax lobby change the talking points daily. The vaxxed, who are too terrified to admit they've willingly had an ineffective drug injected into them for which they have no recourse in event something goes wrong, simply accept the daily flip-flops without batting an eye. Confronting the reality of the permanent and irreversible change they've just made to their bodies - based on faltering evidence - is too much to bear.

saxi cites OLD reports before mass vaccinations really got going:

Thursday, April 01, 2021 - 06:45am
Analysis of 927 confirmed symptomatic cases of COVID-19 demonstrates BNT162b2 is highly effective with 91.3% vaccine efficacy observed against COVID-19, measured seven days through up to six months after the second dose
Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the U.S. Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and 95.3% effective in preventing severe disease as defined by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration
Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing COVID-19 cases in South Africa, where the B.1.351 lineage is prevalent
Vaccine safety now evaluated in more than 44,000 participants 16 years of age and older, with more than 12,000 vaccinated participants having at least six months follow-up after their second dose
The companies plan to share these results with worldwide regulatory agencies soon

Further, he twists the truth AGAIN to try to give his LIES a modicum of credibility.

Again, Jesse Jackson is in a high risk category due to his age. We know already that COVID hits the elderly harder. So AGAIN, saxi proves NOTHING and tries to spread lies, fear, and misinformation.

BOTTOM LINE: ANOTHER FAILURE by saxi.

[jusplay4fun]

“We don't know at the moment how leaky these things are.”

Agreed. It's scary.

QUOTE my entire quote, saxi:

“We don't know at the moment how leaky these things are. It's conceivable that they are actually close to non-leaky. I'm amazed how good these mRNA vaccines are. They're incredibly good.”

Again, more lies, misrepresentations, and saxi again tries to spin a false narrative and

saxi FAILS AGAIN.

[saxitoxin]

Fact 1: Only people age 50+ or those who have underlying medical conditions (morbid obesity, asthma, diabetes, autoimmune disorder) have good cause to get vaccinated. All other people should (a) anticipate being infected, and, (b) take Vitamin D supplements which are proved to lessen the severity of infection.



Fact 2: Mass vaccination outside high-risk groups results in accelerated mutation as the virus adjusts for survival.

Click image to enlarge.

Fact 3: All viruses, left alone, become more transmissible and less pathogenic over time. We achieve herd immunity by protecting the vulnerable from infection through vaccination while accelerating infection among all other segments of the population through non-vaccination. We cannot drug our way out of this crisis.

The way this should have happened:
- Up to $3000/week in unemployment benefits for people age 50+ who cannot work remotely, as well as those with co-morbidities.
- Monthly Vitamin D supplement mailings to all households.
- Public awareness campaign to encourage vaccination among people 50+ and those with co-morbidities.
- NOTHING ELSE

[saxitoxin]

Again, Jesse Jackson is in a high risk category due to his age. We know already that COVID hits the elderly harder.

Again, this is irrelevant. We've been told the vaccine is 100% effective against serious infections. Jesse Jackson was vaccinated and now has a serious infection. If even one person who is vaccinated gets a serious infection that proves the statement is wrong. Ergo, we know two things:

a. We know for a fact the FDA and CDC is claiming the vaccine is "100% effective against serious infections."
b. We know for a fact the vaccine is not "100% effective against serious infections."

This is a 100-level college Logic course biconditional statement.

If you're unwilling to engage in critical thinking and to ask, "If they're wrong about this, what else are they wrong about?", then you should absolutely get vaccinated, you should buy the Brooklyn Bridge, and you should send money to the deposed king of Nigeria.

[Dukasaur]

We've been told the vaccine is 100% effective against serious infections.

Told by whom?

No researcher that I've ever read has ever claimed 100% effectiveness. If some wino in a bar told you something, this doesn't count as an official endorsement.

[saxitoxin]

We've been told the vaccine is 100% effective against serious infections.

Told by whom?

No researcher that I've ever read has ever claimed 100% effectiveness.

Yikes. It's becoming increasingly clear that people who haven't been vaccinated have done more research on the vaccines than those who are crawling over each other in a desperate race to get the jab.

Virtually every vaccine is claiming 100% effectiveness against severe cases of COVID-19 (those leading to death or hospitalization).

- "AstraZeneca Vaccine 100% Effective In Preventing Severe Disease And Hospitalizations, U.S. Trials Show" (Forbes)
- "AstraZeneca: ‘Winning’ vaccine formula is 100% effective against severe COVID-19" (Times of Israel)
- "The [Pfizer] vaccine was 100% effective against severe disease" (Pfizer Corporation)
- "Take whatever COVID vaccine you can get. All of them stop death and hospitalization." (USA Today)
- "Moderna Says Vaccine 100% Effective Against Severe Covid, Seeks Clearance" (NDTV)

[DirtyDishSoap]

The fear mongering is real.

Washington state is basically in gridlock now.
Mask mandate starts Monday. Officers, nurses, doctors and government officials who have not recieved a vaccine will be threatened with their jobs if they do not comply. Regular testing is not an option.

Governor Inslee has embraced a low key dictatorship. Sad times

[Dukasaur]

All the articles you cited there refer to interim results in Phase 3 trials. Nobody expected that they would hold up in the long run.

The long-run number seems to be holding steady somewhere between 91 and 93 percent.

[saxitoxin]

All the articles you cited there refer to interim results in Phase 3 trials.

Wrong.

The fear mongering is real.

Yup. And that's all it is, fear mongering.

These headlines can't be reconciled through the science of Logic:



Not "all of them might stop hospitalization," not "all of them sometimes stop hospitalization" ... "all of them stop hospitalization." Full stop. No qualifiers or caveats.

They can be reconciled if we understand how degenerative policymaking occurs, however. From page 103 of Policy Design for Democracy---

Click image to enlarge.

[jusplay4fun]

Again, Jesse Jackson is in a high risk category due to his age. We know already that COVID hits the elderly harder.

Again, this is irrelevant. We've been told the vaccine is 100% effective against serious infections. Jesse Jackson was vaccinated and now has a serious infection. If even one person who is vaccinated gets a serious infection that proves the statement is wrong. Ergo, we know two things:

a. We know for a fact the FDA and CDC is claiming the vaccine is "100% effective against serious infections."
b. We know for a fact the vaccine is not "100% effective against serious infections."

This is a 100-level college Logic course biconditional statement.

If you're unwilling to engage in critical thinking and to ask, "If they're wrong about this, what else are they wrong about?", then you should absolutely get vaccinated, you should buy the Brooklyn Bridge, and you should send money to the deposed king of Nigeria.

You still use bad logic, saxi. Go back and retake that 100 level class, because you did not learn Logic well. YOU FAILED, again.

[jusplay4fun]

All vaccines stop death and hospitalization means that all the vaccines stop them. This statement does not mean ALL vaccines STOP ALL death and ALL hospitalization. As stated earlier, NO vaccine is 100% effective. In which textbook did you read that statement?

All the articles you cited there refer to interim results in Phase 3 trials.

Wrong.

The fear mongering is real.

Yup. And that's all it is, fear mongering.

These headlines can't be reconciled through the science of Logic:



Not "all of them might stop hospitalization," not "all of them sometimes stop hospitalization" ... "all of them stop hospitalization." Full stop. No qualifiers or caveats.

They can be reconciled if we understand how degenerative policymaking occurs, however. From page 103 of Policy Design for Democracy---

Click image to enlarge.

[jusplay4fun]

Perhaps it is not only saxi's logic is bad.

I guess saxi has ignored what I already posted about breakthrough cases. I suggest that he go back and read that.

BUT I know saxi won't bother, so here is information for the rest of you to read:

What is a breakthrough COVID-19 case?
According to the CDC, a “breakthrough” case is when a person tests positive for COVID-19 at least two weeks after becoming fully vaccinated (either receiving a one-dose vaccine or the second dose of a two-shot vaccine). This is, as the CDC also notes, to be expected. While the COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective at delivering immunity, no vaccine is 100% effective.

But another goal of vaccination is preventing serious illness. And in that regard, the COVID-19 vaccines are successful.

How many breakthrough cases are there?
While it’s still possible for those who receive the vaccine to contract COVID-19, it’s important to remember that those numbers are low. More importantly, the number of breakthrough cases that result in serious illnesses, hospitalizations or death are extremely low.

“The numbers are so low that the CDC is now primarily focusing on those breakthrough cases that result in hospitalization or death,” says Dr. Gordon. “And that number is incredibly small.”

The CDC is tracking those cases on their website and the numbers change weekly. But, so far, fewer than 0.005% of fully vaccinated Americans have experienced a breakthrough case resulting in hospitalization or death. That doesn’t mean it’s not impossible to experience a breakthrough case or even experience symptoms but the odds of serious illness, if you’re fully vaccinated, remain minuscule.

https://health.clevelandclinic.org/breakthrough-covid-cases/

And to reiterate some points already made here, I quote the same source:

The importance of getting the COVID-19 vaccine
The highly transmissible nature of the delta variant proves the importance of getting fully vaccinated against COVID-19. “The vaccines that are available here in the United States are effective against all variants of concern to date, including the delta variant,” says Dr. Gordon.

That means getting both doses of the two-shot mRNA vaccines (Pfizer and Moderna) so you’re fully protected. While studies cited by the CDC showed the effectiveness of just one shot of Pfizer was between 60% and 80%, getting both shots boosted that rate of protection to over 90%. The Moderna vaccine had a similarly high rate above 90% with both doses.

“Even with those variants of concern, the most important tool we have for prevention of getting an infection is getting vaccinated,” Dr. Gordon says.

“Throughout the pandemic, we’ve talked about flattening the curve so we don’t overwhelm the healthcare system with sick people,” he adds. “And the vaccine has effectively done that. These recent spikes are among the unvaccinated, not among people who are fully vaccinated.”

Even if you’ve received the vaccine and still don’t feel particularly safe or live in an area with a high rate of cases, Dr. Gordon says the best course of action is to keep wearing masks. “You can cut down on those risk factors by wearing masks, especially indoors with other people around,” he says. “But the bottom line is still to make sure, first and foremost, you get fully vaccinated.”

[jusplay4fun]

2) Jesse Jackson is over 70 and that puts him at risk from COVID. In fact, he (and his wife) are over 75.

Up until this morning, this was the talking point ...

Vaccine was 100% effective in preventing severe disease

https://www.pfizer.com/news/press-relea ... no-serious

Jesse Jackson and his wife were fully vaccinated and are both now laying in an intensive care unit in the hospital with tubes running out of them. By definition, that means the vaccine is not "100% effective in preventing severe disease."

The vax lobby change the talking points daily. The vaxxed, who are too terrified to admit they've willingly had an ineffective drug injected into them for which they have no recourse in event something goes wrong, simply accept the daily flip-flops without batting an eye. Confronting the reality of the permanent and irreversible change they've just made to their bodies - based on faltering evidence - is too much to bear.

NO reputable scientist or medical person would claim any vaccine is 100% effective against anything. I know I cited documentation already on this point, and I believe Duk has done so as well. And Duk already addressed the issue of Pfizer's statement quoted by saxi.

People who make such claims use the "saxi technique" of overstating one's (weak) argument. Notice too how saxi TRIES to use logic to twist the truth and tries to lead the weak minded to believe false narratives.

[jusplay4fun]

saxi said:
Yikes. It's becoming increasingly clear that people who haven't been vaccinated have done more research on the vaccines than those who are crawling over each other in a desperate race to get the jab.

Virtually every vaccine is claiming 100% effectiveness against severe cases of COVID-19 (those leading to death or hospitalization).

- "AstraZeneca Vaccine 100% Effective In Preventing Severe Disease And Hospitalizations, U.S. Trials Show" (Forbes)
- "AstraZeneca: ‘Winning’ vaccine formula is 100% effective against severe COVID-19" (Times of Israel)
- "The [Pfizer] vaccine was 100% effective against severe disease" (Pfizer Corporation)
- "Take whatever COVID vaccine you can get. All of them stop death and hospitalization." (USA Today)
- "Moderna Says Vaccine 100% Effective Against Severe Covid, Seeks Clearance" (NDTV)

Note that saxi overstates his case again. (Have we heard this BEFORE...????)

1) People are not "crawling over each other in a desperate race to get the jab." However, over 1 million got the vaccine in each of the past 3 days (based on my memory of the news I heard yesterday). It seems that saxi's lies are not convincing many to NOT get the vaccine. Watching family and friends get COVID when unvaccinated is a rather powerful testimony of the need for the vaccine.

2) Note that for a long time saxi referred to the COVID vaccine as the death jab. Yes, death for those UNVACCINATED.

3) saxi quotes statements from the initial release of the vaccine, before mass vaccinations began. Now we have more data. His USA Today article is from Feb 12, 2021. Duk has addressed that point already.

4) No vaccine is 100% effective. The statements that saxi quote are old and from initial tests. Anyone who understands medicine and biology knows one cannot claim 100% with any degree of certainty.

5) done more research? HARDLY. I would say for those who have not gotten the vaccine that their research is a) biased and/or b) poorly done and/or c) use terrible sources that spread lies and do not give the truth.

A neighbor of mine said she was not getting the vaccine because of her fear of blood clots. I told her that was only true (a low level possibility) of the J&J vaccine. Further, she is not even in the right age range for that danger. BUT that is her one stated reason to avoid the vaccine. She is an example of a weak minded person when it comes to the Science about COVID and the vaccines.

saxi is wrong on so many levels.

[HitRed]

She is an example of a weak minded person when it comes to the Science about COVID and the vaccines.

[jusplay4fun]

She is an example of a weak minded person when it comes to the Science about COVID and the vaccines.

Is there a point you wish to make, HR? I was referring to a neighbor (in RL), in case you were wondering.