Russian peacekeeping forces enter Ukraine

[bigtoughralf]

THE key difference between this war and the Serbia genocide is that the Russians are taking casualties in order to avoid hitting civilianS targets. They could easily carpet bomb Ukraine into dust and then occupy what's left. NATO showed no such restraint in Serbia, hitting all sorts of civilian infrastructure.

Civilian targets and also the embassy they deliberately bombed.

[thegroover]

Reply for an early incorrect post. Kosovo is recognised by 97 UN countries.

[Evil Semp]

The Powell Doctrine

The doctrine poses questions emphasizing (1) national security interests, (2) overwhelming strike capabilities with an emphasis on ground forces, (3) and widespread public support. All of which have to be answered affirmatively before military action is taken.

Going to run simple math on section (2):

(2) overwhelming strike capabilities with an emphasis on ground forces

Russian troops on the boarder of Ukraine on February 23, 2022 190,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 2:1

As of Friday Russia had only sent in 1/3 of their troops. 63,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 6:1

As of Saturday Russia had sent in only 1/2 of their troops 95,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 4:1

Putin is not following section (2) of the Powell Doctrine.

It states overwhelming strike capabilities not numerical superiority. I think most people would agree that Russia has overwhelming strike capabilities.

[HitRed]

The Powell Doctrine

The doctrine poses questions emphasizing (1) national security interests, (2) overwhelming strike capabilities with an emphasis on ground forces, (3) and widespread public support. All of which have to be answered affirmatively before military action is taken.

Going to run simple math on section (2):

(2) overwhelming strike capabilities with an emphasis on ground forces

Russian troops on the boarder of Ukraine on February 23, 2022 190,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 2:1

As of Friday Russia had only sent in 1/3 of their troops. 63,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 6:1

As of Saturday Russia had sent in only 1/2 of their troops 95,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 4:1

Putin is not following section (2) of the Powell Doctrine.

It states overwhelming strike capabilities not numerical superiority. I think most people would agree that Russia has overwhelming strike capabilities.

The Russians lack basic things as gas, directions and night vision. Only 4 days of artillery shells. Lack of air superiority. I don’t see overwhelming strike capabilities. Many of the tanks and planes are common to both sides.

[jusplay4fun]

I am certainly NO expert on the Balkans or Ukraine. Most of what I knew was confirmed in my brief look at several websites.

ONE key difference is that the former country of Yugoslavia was, to me, destined for break up as it was a collection of many different and rather divergent and diverse ethnic groups. The dissolution of Yugoslavia after the death of Tito was inevitable. Ukraine is different in that it has (it seems to me) mostly those who call themselves Ukrainian and then significant numbers of Russian immigrants who live in Ukrainian territories. As with many nations, I am sure there are small enclaves of other groups and ethnicities. I am not aware of another significant minority population in Ukraine. https://www.britannica.com/place/Ukraine/People

There were reports of much discrimination and worse by the majority groups in many areas of then Yugoslavia. How much of that was "propaganda" I do not know.

My recollection of history is that Yugoslavia was "put together" after WW2 and the break up of the Austrian-Hungarian Empire.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breakup_of_Yugoslavia
Obviously the history of the region is very complex: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yugoslavia

Due to its complex history, there was a great sense of many ethnic groups yearning to have its own lands and to be free of oppressors and overlords. THAT, to me, is another KEY difference between Ukraine and the Balkans and Yugoslavia.

A key question/issue for the world going forward is how many nations are needed to allow peoples those freedoms and their ability to determine their destiny? How to respect the rights of a small minority without breaking up larger nations? Those are the continuing questions.

Crimea is a good example of ethnic Russians moving there in the past 200 or less years, to man the former Soviet and Russian naval base(s) there. There were likely some ethnic Russians there before 1917. Crimea also has lots of desirable vacation lands and beaches and such, as well a lands to grow grapes and other crops. I am sure there is lots of money from oligarchs there buying such desirable places.

I met a young man who is from Ukraine and he was proudly Ukrainian. He is blonde and blue eyed and appeared to me to be Scandinavian; that may be the Viking influence. He is a very bright person and was an exchange student in my class for several month (about 15 years ago). He got the attention of the entire class when he spoke of his people being SLAVES. [As a side note, he really enjoyed the cupcakes my wife and I gave him at a going away celebration on his last day in my class. He took THREE (and asked for #3. "Of course, Vlad..!" I said.) Other students took one.]

Another KEY difference is that Putin is using minority status of some Russians to justify his land grab and his desire to install governments friendly to Russia on his borders. He does not like it that many nations of Eastern Europe do not want to part of his Russian Sphere of influence. {This is my first edit of this long post.} Kosovo was not formed to please a large power in the region, another KEY difference.

Small update > YUgoslavia had 6 Republic =Slovenia,Croatia,Macedonia,Montenegro,Bosnia and Hercegovina, Serbia
all these republic had right to leave Yugoslavia,,,,
Now Serbia had 2 provinces >>Vojvodina and Kosovo
Provinces dont have right like Republic and dont have right to separate from Serbia (that was constitution of SFR Yugoslavia)
That why KOsovo are still not recognise in UN like sovereign country.
(maybe you dont know that)

You asked for differences and I gave you three. You can wait to see if anyone else has any differences to add, if you want.

Kosovo, to me , without more research, is only a small enclave on the Balkans map on CC. I do not live there and have no family or national security interests in the area, so I will say I know little else on the matters of those two regions. You are correct, I do not know that.

[bigtoughralf]

Ukraine closes its borders: Indian and African students attempting to evacuate Ukraine have been held at the border, beaten in the street and then turned around by Ukranian soldiers, according to multiple videos and first-hand witness accounts:

https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/i ... 63156.html

Operation Human Shield has been initiated.

[bigtoughralf]

Some helpful analysis from the BBC and CBS explaining why Western countries care much more about Ukraine than they did Iraq, Syria, Afghanistan etc:

https://www.reddit.com/r/beholdthemaste ... onde_blue/

[saxitoxin]

GREAT NEWS!

Saudi Arabia is confirming Russia's status in the OPEC+ Accord and will not increase global oil output without Russian sign off.

Putin, once again, outplayed Biden. I love the smell of $6 petrol going into a midterm election.

[jusplay4fun]

The World watches and waits. I pray for the Ukrainian people and for their nation.

Biden should have sent more weapons to Ukraine BEFORE the invasion by Putin and Russian forces. Poor planning by Biden and his team.

Putin is Evil. How many Ukrainian innocent civilians will die? This could be a HUGE number.

At this point, the Ukrainian military is keeping the Russian forces from taking any major cities, based on Media reports. But the Fog of War may keep lots of accurate information out of the News.

While this goes on, the USA continues to buy LOTS of barrels of oil from Russia. And in the meantime, Biden refuses to allow Americans to drill for MORE oil in the USA (more leases of Federal land, in particular). That makes sense militarily to "help" Ukraine. RIGHT.

In 2021, the U.S. imported an average of 209,000 barrels per day (bpd) of crude oil and 500,000 bpd of other petroleum products from Russia.

https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/oil-and-petroleum-imports-russia-explained#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20U.S.%20imported,other%20petroleum%20products%20from%20Russia.

[saxitoxin]

Putin is Evil. How many Ukrainian innocent civilians will die? This could be a HUGE number.

I can virtually guarantee it will be less than the NATO attack on Libya.

[Qwert]

The World watches and waits. I pray for the Ukrainian people and for their nation.

Biden should have sent more weapons to Ukraine BEFORE the invasion by Putin and Russian forces. Poor planning by Biden and his team.

Putin is Evil. How many Ukrainian innocent civilians will die? This could be a HUGE number.

At this point, the Ukrainian military is keeping the Russian forces from taking any major cities, based on Media reports. But the Fog of War may keep lots of accurate information out of the News.

While this goes on, the USA continues to buy LOTS of barrels of oil from Russia. And in the meantime, Biden refuses to allow Americans to drill for MORE oil in the USA (more leases of Federal land, in particular). That makes sense militarily to "help" Ukraine. RIGHT.

In 2021, the U.S. imported an average of 209,000 barrels per day (bpd) of crude oil and 500,000 bpd of other petroleum products from Russia.

https://www.afpm.org/newsroom/blog/oil-and-petroleum-imports-russia-explained#:~:text=In%202021%2C%20the%20U.S.%20imported,other%20petroleum%20products%20from%20Russia.

And what its tell you? Where its logic there? First biden condemn Russian operation against Ukraine impose some virtual sanctions who dont make any sense, sending probably small military aid and in the end buying oil and petroleum direct from Russia???? Something its fishy and wrong here, or maybe im not smart enough to understand Biden plan of supporting Ukraine?

[Qwert]

The Powell Doctrine

The doctrine poses questions emphasizing (1) national security interests, (2) overwhelming strike capabilities with an emphasis on ground forces, (3) and widespread public support. All of which have to be answered affirmatively before military action is taken.

Going to run simple math on section (2):

(2) overwhelming strike capabilities with an emphasis on ground forces

Russian troops on the boarder of Ukraine on February 23, 2022 190,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 2:1

As of Friday Russia had only sent in 1/3 of their troops. 63,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 6:1

As of Saturday Russia had sent in only 1/2 of their troops 95,000
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 4:1

Putin is not following section (2) of the Powell Doctrine.

It states overwhelming strike capabilities not numerical superiority. I think most people would agree that Russia has overwhelming strike capabilities.

The Russians lack basic things as gas, directions and night vision. Only 4 days of artillery shells. Lack of air superiority. I don’t see overwhelming strike capabilities. Many of the tanks and planes are common to both sides.

If Ukraine have big defensive advantage how come that Russian stil advancing??? I hope that these will not be same like Afganistan Scenario where Afghan Army had 350000 soldiers (not counting police) against Taliban 60000 ,,, plus Afgan army had modern equipment and still they collapsed so fast, so that US military also catch surprised with these disaster.

[HitRed]

The Russians are stacked like a spearhead. The Ukrainian is likely spread out defensively. I was dismayed to see a few photos of Ukrainian tanks defending in the middle of a road. Get off the road in ambush positions.

[betiko]

Haha.. putin pulling the nuke threat card… things clearly aren’t going as planned for him.
The russian opinion is shifting more and more… I’m pretty sure this conflict will be the straw on the camel’s back for Putin s system.
The russians are held by the testies and have no other choice than letting go.
Putin should apologize to Macron for not taking his last chance offer and not recognizing him as the alpha male, only because he doesn’t t like hunting bear. He is still fucking his high school teacher, vlad should know better

[DoomYoshi]

I love the smell of $6 petrol going into a midterm election.

Canadians are paying right now an average of 6.03 USD/gallon (CDN is 7.24/gallon or 1.59/L).

[HitRed]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has deployed nearly 75% of the assembled combat power into Ukraine, a U.S. defense official said Monday.

As of Monday Russia has sent in 3/4 of their troops. 142,500
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 2.8 : 1

----

"We believe that their advance was slowed both by resistance by the Ukrainians who have been quite creative in finding ways to attack columns, and number two, by the fuel source shortages and the sustainment issues that they have had," the official said.

[ConfederateSS]

The Russians are stacked like a spearhead. The Ukrainian is likely spread out defensively. I was dismayed to see a few photos of Ukrainian tanks defending in the middle of a road. Get off the road in ambush positions.

-------------In 1939 A.D. Russia invaded Finland...The Finns were led by a German WW1 General...who moved to Finland after WW1......His plan ...Wait for the Russian columns...Hit the 1st tank/truck....then the last...Finns would swoop down on skies...Knock out the ones that were stuck and couldn't move...

-----------Russians in this war...are using roads to travel....The Ukrainians should use the same strategy.... .

-------------Great news....well sorta....The 13 border gaurds that told the Russian Warship..."F" off...On Snake Island...Are not dead/ killed....They were taken as P.O.W.s...so they are alive...so that is Great News...but in Russian hands ...... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[saxitoxin]

Russian President Vladimir Putin has deployed nearly 75% of the assembled combat power into Ukraine, a U.S. defense official said Monday.

As of Monday Russia has sent in 3/4 of their troops. 142,500
Ukrainian troops 400,000

Defenders advantage 2.8 : 1

----

"We believe that their advance was slowed both by resistance by the Ukrainians who have been quite creative in finding ways to attack columns, and number two, by the fuel source shortages and the sustainment issues that they have had," the official said.

This says a lot about the poor state of the Uke forces ... they outnumber the Russians 3:1 and are on defense and yet the Russians have still surrounded their capital city and conquered 20% of the country in less than four days.

President Putin's peace condition should be for Kiev to surrender everything east of the Dnieper. Let the rump, cleaved, and castrated Ukraine join NATO if it wants.

[HitRed]

Even the Ukrainian women want to fight.

Napoléon Bonaparte

In war, the morale is to the physical as ten to one.

[HitRed]

Even Ukrainian women want to fight.

Napoléon Bonaparte

In war, the morale is to the physical as ten to one.

[saxitoxin]

Even Ukrainian women want to fight.

That could devastate the Ukrainian economy which is pretty much propped up by mail order brides and webcam models.

More Uke men will have to enlist in the 3rd Rentboy Battalion to make up for it.

(Ralf - maybe you can enlist as a foreign volunteer.)

[jonesthecurl]

-with regard to the OP how's that peacekeeping going?

[bigtoughralf]

Ongoing obvs. Rome wasn't built in a day.

It's only taken a few short days of conflict for the Ukranian regime to show just how ugly its face is though. Reports are flooding in of Ukrainian soldiers allowing white residents to flee the country while holding black and brown residents in the country and beating them:

“They stopped us at the border and told us that Blacks were not allowed. But we could see White people going through,” said Moustapha Bagui Sylla, a student from Guinea. He said he fled his university residence in Kharkiv, Ukraine’s second-largest city, as soon as the bombing began.

Another student from Nigeria described similar scenes at the border crossing. He said his group, which included women, was shut out of the border post even as White people were let through.

https://www.france24.com/en/europe/2022 ... and-border

Nigeria's government has condemned reports that its citizens, and those of other African countries, have been stopped from leaving war-torn Ukraine.

Isaac, a Nigerian man trying to get into Poland, said border staff told him they were "not tending to Africans".

"We've been chased back, we've been hit with police armed with sticks," he told the BBC.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-africa-60555650

We should all welcome Bush's Putin's intervention to remove the genocidal and repressive Baghdad Kiev regime.