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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Ragian on Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:09 am

Razorvich wrote:Well it seems my double has no idea that we are connected, OR he is a master bullshitter.

At no time have I claimed that I am Town, I said... Town would be worse off without me.. you all put the dots together

I do have an end game goal, but that no way hinders towns goal of finding the scum.

Well, this is a different tune from:
Razorvich wrote:You might think is sketchy, but thats all I got at this stage.. and I am now suspecting that others have objectives too.

It would be bad for town because if I am gone their numbers will be 1 less

and:
Razorvich wrote:As for a full claim, that will only aid the scum.. look elsewhere, this course will get town nowhere.


You're not town, so obviously it won't be detrimental to town to get a claim (or even lynch you). If your end goal is to stay alive, you're playing it wrongly, man.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby SoN!c on Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:15 am

General Bax wrote:
swang918 wrote:Razor is lying about something. Let's break down his claim. His claim has three parts:
1. There is someone whose win condition is to lynch Razor.
2. Razor knows who it is. and
3. Razor is town.
Ok so assume that all three are true aka Razor is telling the truth. That would mean that there is someone who is out to lynch him, a townie. What's that person's alignment? That person can't be town obviously. It's also not scum--doesn't make sense for a single scum to have an individual win condition of killing a specific villager. And also most likely not third party, because if he's 3p then that means we have a townie, Razor, who started the game knowing the identity, alignment, and mission of a 3p--which would be incredibly unfair to the 3p.
Therefore, it's impossible for Razor to be telling the truth about all 3 aspects of his claim.

Now he's probably not making up the whole role out of thin air.

If I had to guess, there are two 3ps, each of whose win condition is to lynch the other. Razor is one. Maybe Ragian for the other.


1. According to this theory, this someone could be you
2. Inevitably, it means you and Raz are coordinated.
3. And you're both scum.

Why shouldn't everyone vote you, just as a precaution?


First: Make a bookmark on this post.

Then start with Razorvich his soft claim. It's huge. Raz has given so much information by now it would be easy to puncture his balloon if he's lying.

However, look at the ones that are climbing on the train here, there is scum in the list for sure.
"I will give you all a soft claim.
I am a character that has an evil double. This person (whom I know) is out to get me lynched to meet his win conditions.
Your call now, lynch me and eat the egg on your face or look at the ones that are diverting attention towards me.
Loose is not the evil twin
he (the evil twin) knows who he is and I expect him to start chanting really soon
My role does not note anything about "Executioner" apart from that I am a target.
I wont disclose anything else at this stage, as I said it only benifits scum.
Well it seems my double has no idea that we are connected, OR he is a master bullshitter.
At no time have I claimed that I am Town, I said... Town would be worse off without me.. you all put the dots together
I do have an end game goal, but that no way hinders towns goal of finding the scum."


About the ones that are diverting attention towards Raz:

by degaston on Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:00 am
Vote Count:
Razorvich : 7 (Ragian, *Pixar*, Extreme Ways, traffic133, DirtyDishSoap, fusibaseball, DukeHazzard)


That was the highest vote count on Raz (in right order) but a vote count and "drawing attention too" is not the same thing ofcourse. . Except for the part "climbing on the train here, there is scum in the list for sure". Yes there is, i think two.

I said i believed Charle before and Charle got (roughly) to the same conclusion i did:

by Charle Ā» Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:15 am
I believe Raz. I think Raz and his double are both 3P, but if one is lynched, the other one wins the game. Raz constantly mentioned that Town would be worse off without him. For now I think we should look somewhere else.
Loose's offer to vote Swang tells me he knows more than what we think. The fact that he did some research might be true, but that does not guarantee that any person will play the game according to the book. I think there is more than that, and he knows for sure that Swang is scum, so we as town should use that info to our benefit.
I really think that Loose has special powers for D2, vote counts 2, smoke bomb and he knows something else we do not know. If we do not use this powers to our benefit, then we might loose it on D3 when his role is back to normal.


Now let that sink in and realise you find yourself in a paradox IF your town.

If you lynch the evil twin then RAZ wins the game, and if you lynch RAZ the evil twin wins. But perhaps for town, it's meant to be that the good twin wins?. By no means would it be good that an evil scummy slimy doppelgƤnger wins?. I think DDS can follow me on this? Good versus evil, who you gonna choose IF your town?

"So Why shouldn't everyone vote you, just as a precaution?"

PS: Loose his character is no smelly joke.
PS2: Im with RAZ
PS3: Swang is starting to perspire - I can sense it.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby DirtyDishSoap on Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:50 am

There's some digestion here and there is also alot of junk i need to tackle through, too much atm while drinking. I think i can make a sound argument against Raz. Currently boozed up but don't want to fall into some trap until i re-read a few of these posts and past posts. More to come.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby SoN!c on Thu Sep 21, 2023 4:53 am

And oh, if the evil scummy slimy doppelgƤnger wins (who is -unlike Raz- an excecutioner) mafia loses too. The scum in the bandwagon on Raz might need to start thinking on that?
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby PepeAtila on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:03 am

Razorvich wrote:Well it seems my double has no idea that we are connected, OR he is a master bullshitter.

At no time have I claimed that I am Town, ...


Charle wrote:I believe Raz. I think Raz and his double are both 3P, but if one is lynched, the other one wins the game...


Charle can you explain if you think Raz is 3P and he claimed to be town, how it is possible that you believe him?
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby SoN!c on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:10 am

PepeAtila wrote:
Razorvich wrote:Well it seems my double has no idea that we are connected, OR he is a master bullshitter.

At no time have I claimed that I am Town, ...


Charle wrote:I believe Raz. I think Raz and his double are both 3P, but if one is lynched, the other one wins the game...


Charle can you explain if you think Raz is 3P and he claimed to be town, how it is possible that you believe him?


You are misreading "I claimed that I am Town" because the words in front of that sentence are "at no time"

At no time have I claimed that I am Town - Raz never claimed he was town.

Look guys it's so obvious. And since im town and town's greatest asset is to share information im gonna say it:

Raz is the main hero. He is The Tick. The dopplegƤnger is his evil green slimy clone from the show "The Tick vs The Tick"
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby PepeAtila on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:15 am

Thank you now is clear ... I understood 'in no time ... ' :D
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby PepeAtila on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:17 am

I don't know if I wrote wrong again ... I understood like 'very fast'
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Razorvich on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:28 am

BOOOM !!

Ragian wrote:
Razorvich wrote:Well it seems my double has no idea that we are connected, OR he is a master bullshitter.

At no time have I claimed that I am Town, I said... Town would be worse off without me.. you all put the dots together

I do have an end game goal, but that no way hinders towns goal of finding the scum.

Well, this is a different tune from:
Razorvich wrote:You might think is sketchy, but thats all I got at this stage.. and I am now suspecting that others have objectives too.

It would be bad for town because if I am gone their numbers will be 1 less

and:
Razorvich wrote:As for a full claim, that will only aid the scum.. look elsewhere, this course will get town nowhere.


You're not town, so obviously it won't be detrimental to town to get a claim (or even lynch you). If your end goal is to stay alive, you're playing it wrongly, man.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Razorvich on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:29 am

VOTE Ragian
Razorvich wrote:High Score: 2569
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Charle on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:30 am

PepeAtila wrote:
Razorvich wrote:Well it seems my double has no idea that we are connected, OR he is a master bullshitter.

At no time have I claimed that I am Town, ...


Charle wrote:I believe Raz. I think Raz and his double are both 3P, but if one is lynched, the other one wins the game...


Charle can you explain if you think Raz is 3P and he claimed to be town, how it is possible that you believe him?


Pepe, he specifically mentioned that he NEVER claimed to be town, but it will be disadvantageous for town if he is killed. So what else can he be? Cannot be scum, because it is good for town when he is killed. I actually believe him.

The most important thing is that we should focus on what we believe are actual facts, such as what I think we got from Loose, and the speculation around Raz can be done later.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Razorvich on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:43 am

you missed the part that I said "I am lovable and your math is wrong"

SoN!c wrote:
General Bax wrote:
swang918 wrote:Razor is lying about something. Let's break down his claim. His claim has three parts:
1. There is someone whose win condition is to lynch Razor.
2. Razor knows who it is. and
3. Razor is town.
Ok so assume that all three are true aka Razor is telling the truth. That would mean that there is someone who is out to lynch him, a townie. What's that person's alignment? That person can't be town obviously. It's also not scum--doesn't make sense for a single scum to have an individual win condition of killing a specific villager. And also most likely not third party, because if he's 3p then that means we have a townie, Razor, who started the game knowing the identity, alignment, and mission of a 3p--which would be incredibly unfair to the 3p.
Therefore, it's impossible for Razor to be telling the truth about all 3 aspects of his claim.

Now he's probably not making up the whole role out of thin air.

If I had to guess, there are two 3ps, each of whose win condition is to lynch the other. Razor is one. Maybe Ragian for the other.


1. According to this theory, this someone could be you
2. Inevitably, it means you and Raz are coordinated.
3. And you're both scum.

Why shouldn't everyone vote you, just as a precaution?


First: Make a bookmark on this post.

Then start with Razorvich his soft claim. It's huge. Raz has given so much information by now it would be easy to puncture his balloon if he's lying.

However, look at the ones that are climbing on the train here, there is scum in the list for sure.
"I will give you all a soft claim.
I am a character that has an evil double. This person (whom I know) is out to get me lynched to meet his win conditions.
Your call now, lynch me and eat the egg on your face or look at the ones that are diverting attention towards me.
Loose is not the evil twin
he (the evil twin) knows who he is and I expect him to start chanting really soon
My role does not note anything about "Executioner" apart from that I am a target.
I wont disclose anything else at this stage, as I said it only benifits scum.
Well it seems my double has no idea that we are connected, OR he is a master bullshitter.
At no time have I claimed that I am Town, I said... Town would be worse off without me.. you all put the dots together
I do have an end game goal, but that no way hinders towns goal of finding the scum."


About the ones that are diverting attention towards Raz:

by degaston on Wed Sep 20, 2023 6:00 am
Vote Count:
Razorvich : 7 (Ragian, *Pixar*, Extreme Ways, traffic133, DirtyDishSoap, fusibaseball, DukeHazzard)


That was the highest vote count on Raz (in right order) but a vote count and "drawing attention too" is not the same thing ofcourse. . Except for the part "climbing on the train here, there is scum in the list for sure". Yes there is, i think two.

I said i believed Charle before and Charle got (roughly) to the same conclusion i did:

by Charle Ā» Thu Sep 21, 2023 10:15 am
I believe Raz. I think Raz and his double are both 3P, but if one is lynched, the other one wins the game. Raz constantly mentioned that Town would be worse off without him. For now I think we should look somewhere else.
Loose's offer to vote Swang tells me he knows more than what we think. The fact that he did some research might be true, but that does not guarantee that any person will play the game according to the book. I think there is more than that, and he knows for sure that Swang is scum, so we as town should use that info to our benefit.
I really think that Loose has special powers for D2, vote counts 2, smoke bomb and he knows something else we do not know. If we do not use this powers to our benefit, then we might loose it on D3 when his role is back to normal.


Now let that sink in and realise you find yourself in a paradox IF your town.

If you lynch the evil twin then RAZ wins the game, and if you lynch RAZ the evil twin wins. But perhaps for town, it's meant to be that the good twin wins?. By no means would it be good that an evil scummy slimy doppelgƤnger wins?. I think DDS can follow me on this? Good versus evil, who you gonna choose IF your town?

"So Why shouldn't everyone vote you, just as a precaution?"

PS: Loose his character is no smelly joke.
PS2: Im with RAZ
PS3: Swang is starting to perspire - I can sense it.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby SoN!c on Thu Sep 21, 2023 5:46 am

BOOOOM: here we have it.

And Raz is voting Ragian..

Remember Raz said in the beginning "these two are not to be trusted...Mark my words" Now how could he said that so surely if he did not know it from the beginning?

That was the first thing that crossed my mind when he said "I am a character that has an evil double. This person (whom I know)"

Ragian... called me out being a grammer nazi .. yeah i saw that
I also saw what you did in the prison mafia mate... NO way i will trust anything you say
PEPE... a late addition, AFTER the MOD said that if we don't get a final confirmation.. things may have to be changed.
This to me says that a SPECIAL character did not accept his invitation .. you joined... and that that makes you scum mate.
mark my words here... these 2 are not to be trusted


Raz and Ragian are the twins. One is The Tick, the other is his Evil Clone.

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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Extreme Ways on Thu Sep 21, 2023 6:00 am

As a quick aside @Loose and @Sonic, how does it feel to be voting alongside the person who has been pushing so hard to get you lynched?

Will give my take on Raz vs Ragian later, also need thoughts from the people I actually trust :D. Still at work, so DDS lynch me.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby *Pixar* on Thu Sep 21, 2023 6:08 am

I don't like the idea of lynching a 3rd party if Raz's comments are true about a win condition. I would rather divert attention somewhere else. If Loose is so confident on Swang I'm up for getting some info out of him. I will say I don't like Son!c hopping votes after being so hard pressed on Loose being scum. I do believe today we need to lynch someone, can't go another day with a no lynch, that gives us no clues.

Unvote Vote Swang
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby SoN!c on Thu Sep 21, 2023 6:23 am

Extreme Ways wrote:As a quick aside @Loose and @Sonic, how does it feel to be voting alongside the person who has been pushing so hard to get you lynched?

Will give my take on Raz vs Ragian later, also need thoughts from the people I actually trust :D. Still at work, so DDS lynch me.


If you wanna know i've been real busy and have by now a very good idea on most. Like i said im a superhero who needs to save town.

And i think your the GF.

Raz and Ragian are the twins based upon Raz his words.

Loose is special character.

Charle is town 100%
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby strike wolf on Thu Sep 21, 2023 7:09 am

Haven't read the last page. Just wanted to add before I leave for work: Raz all but claiming 3rd party if he's Scum would be a big risk. I'm now thinking he is indeed telling the truth at least as far as alignment goes and it probably is not in towns best interest to lynch him or his twin at this stage. At least without better info.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Loose Canon on Thu Sep 21, 2023 7:43 am

Price change.
Now any takers just have to wager 900 ccc vs my 500 that swang is scum
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Ragian on Thu Sep 21, 2023 7:49 am

Boom what? You're saying that I'm your evil twin? According to Son!c that makes you The Tick (if I understand him correctly). And you're not claiming to be town. Are you saying that The Tick in this mafia game is not town?
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby degaston on Thu Sep 21, 2023 8:42 am

Vote Count:
    Razorvich : 5 (Ragian, DirtyDishSoap, PepeAtila, fusibaseball, Extreme Ways)
    swang918 : 4 (Loose Canon x 2, SoN!c, *Pixar*)
    Ragian : 1 (Razorvich)
    Loose Canon : 0 ()

    No Vote : 9 (Charle, Darin44, DukeHazzard, General Bax, Maxleod, strike wolf, swang918, TrafalgarLaw01, traffic133)
18 Alive, 10 votes needed to lynch
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby TrafalgarLaw01 on Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:02 am

strike wolf wrote:Haven't read the last page. Just wanted to add before I leave for work: Raz all but claiming 3rd party if he's Scum would be a big risk. I'm now thinking he is indeed telling the truth at least as far as alignment goes and it probably is not in towns best interest to lynch him or his twin at this stage. At least without better info.


Agree claiming 3rd party its usually a big risk which gives him him some credit.
I would like your opinion on this as u have seen the show.
Do you think the Tick can be 3rd party and not town?
Would be good if Raz says who is the other one so we can also get answers from the other side?
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby fusibaseball on Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:04 am

Ok I agree that the win condition thing seems legitimate and scary so unvote Raz.

What I don't agree with is that The Tick isn't Town. That doesn't really make sense to me that he would be 3rd Party although I guess he's not actually a "member of the town" but an outside superhero coming to "save the town"? But that's a stretch.

@Sonic perhaps it's a different character. I think strike mentioned a list of clone characters who popped up in the show a while ago at the bottom of a post. I'll have to look for those when I have more time tonight.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Extreme Ways on Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:43 am

Claiming 3P is... commendable, because that usually gets you lynched. It's all but confirmed that if Raz is telling truth, then Ragian is the antagonist of Raz. I find it believable that one of the two roles has a wincon that is more aligned to town than the other.

I dont think that in forummafia the game ends when one wincondition is met. A 3P winning does not equate to scum or town losing (with exception of Jester, I guess). When playing real-time mafia that's understandable because games move fast, but for forummafia? Not a chance imo.

But like I outlined in my "chum to scum" list, when two people are at odds with one another it's easy enough to distrust them both and go with other leads.

degaston wrote:Vote Count:
    Razorvich : 5 (Ragian, DirtyDishSoap, PepeAtila, fusibaseball, Extreme Ways)
    swang918 : 4 (Loose Canon x 2, SoN!c, *Pixar*)
    Ragian : 1 (Razorvich)
    Loose Canon : 0 ()

    No Vote : 9 (Charle, Darin44, DukeHazzard, General Bax, Maxleod, strike wolf, swang918, TrafalgarLaw01, traffic133)
18 Alive, 10 votes needed to lynch

I think there's at least 1 scum in the list for swang. I dont see any other reasoning for swang other than "just trust me bro" coming from (player-wise) two of our least trusted people.

Bax made a post attacking Swang but didn't vote. It wasn't a good post. I have no idea why people deduced that swang = scum based on his analysis. It was one of the reasons why Raz changed his "me getting lynched isnt good for town" to explicitly stating that his interests apparently align with town's, but he himself is not town.

For now, I'm unvote raz. I still think both Raz and Rag should be clear in their objectives and to an extent, their powers. Scum should also know that they are antagonists, so they are unlikely to be targets for now.

I am down to vote Sonic, Pix (just for the swang vote and not claiming at L-2) Bax. Probably also up for others if a case is made. I dont think it's very useful to vote Rag unless the topic dies out, I'm just not expecting to get anything out of it. Unless Rag claims to be completely disconnected from this, because for Raz to to be allowed to live town needs to know who the "evil twin" is.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby Extreme Ways on Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:45 am

Extreme Ways wrote:
show

EBWOP: "his analysis" refers to swang's analysis, not bax's analysis of swang's analysis lol.
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Re: The Tick Mafia - D2

Postby SoN!c on Thu Sep 21, 2023 9:49 am

strike wolf wrote:Haven't read the last page. Just wanted to add before I leave for work: Raz all but claiming 3rd party if he's Scum would be a big risk. I'm now thinking he is indeed telling the truth at least as far as alignment goes and it probably is not in towns best interest to lynch him or his twin at this stage. At least without better info.


+1

And yes Raz is telling the truth on the entire "twin twist". He gave way too much information. Only the truth will stick if you give that much so fast. And he said he is not town just that it would be in town best interest if he is not lynched. So giving that away too - it all adds up. The story about the twins - and one being the target for the other has to be correct - 100%

Another thing Raz said prior in the game "So after a quick skim, I see that Ragian is out to get me... hmmmm." Raz has always been on Ragian it seems, from the beginning. And Ragian after Raz..just like Raz said they both knew it from the start.

The only part that Raz can by lying about is what twin he is, is he the good one or the bad? You could turn truth around by just saying it's the other one. (Counterclaim your target's role when your target isn't fully trusted by the others yet).

I believe the bad one is the Executioner's and that the Executioner wins the game by killing The Tick ..The good one has another 3rd party role. Not an Executioner but something good and superhero like. So I believe we have Town, Mafia and good and evil 3rd parties role characters in play. Probably some "sidekicks" too. Town would be the sidekicks and heroes.. But The Tick himself is the main character role. He would be special being the ultimate GOOD 3rd party. While his evil twin is and EVIL 3rd party. If you would be able to kill (the real) The Tick (as a specific mission to do so), it would be logical the game ends abruptly. Without The Tick there is no The Tick show anymore..
(After all The Tick is the main protagonist of the Tick franchise.. If you manage to get The Tick killed by getting him lynched by townies it seems logical you would well deservedly win the game.)

So: If the target (The Tick) is lynched, the Executioner immediately wins and the game ends.

We have to avoid that scenario at all costs. Anyone saying we can lynch Raz after this twist is not to be trusted, especially Ragian.
So if Ragian says we still can / have to lynch / or keeps trying to influence our opinion in any way about keep lynching Raz we should be very cautious and not do it. I imagine Ragian will pretend his noose bleeds and will continue to go for Raz. Saying Boom What?

Next:
If the target (The Tick) dies any other way, the Executioner turns into the Jester, now trying to get themselves lynched. We should keep this in mind if mafia kills The Tick tonight as a kill on one of them can be expected.
Because Mafia would wanna kill The Excecutioner asap during the night i reckon (now they know this). A kill by a non-lynching death or otherwise risking town wins on D3 when town lynches the evil one. Because for town, i think if The Tick wins the game the Town would win too. After all that is how The Tick franchise is based. The Tick saving the town. All ends well for The Tick AND Town. So we could - but even better should - as town find and lynch the evil one asap today to win?. Mafia will try to kill him tonight?, that is why i said before we can't say who he is but the way it was going sharing information is in the end always better for town.


So i expect (for the rest of D2) it would make sense for mafia to not lynch the Executioner's target (The Tick). Because then mafia loses. So maffia would strongly be against lynching The Tick 100%. And since we don't know who The Tick is for sure, and who his evil clone is, mafia can't risk lynching either one of them either untill they find out. So they will say "we will deal with the matter later "
So the Predicted mafia play for the rest of the day would be: "Don't waste energy trying to find out (finding out who is the evil on is; Raz or Ragian), because we will find out and deal with them tonight way more easy".. For now let's frame a townie to get lynched instead. And that is exactly what Pix an EW are telling us to do now. Both pointing at me (as expected)
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