Israel

[Dukasaur]

Why don't we just break off a piece of China and give it to the Palestinians.

Why don't we just stick all the Israelis on Madagascar and give Palestine back to the Palestinians?

Funny you should mention that. It was one of the suggestions seriously considered by the Germans, but the British fucked it up with their naval blockade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

[bigtoughralf]

Why don't we just break off a piece of China and give it to the Palestinians.

Why don't we just stick all the Israelis on Madagascar and give Palestine back to the Palestinians?

Funny you should mention that. It was one of the suggestions seriously considered by the Germans, but the British fucked it up with their naval blockade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

Ah, that's unfortunate. Did the Germans explore any feasible alternatives?

[Pack Rat]

Why don't we just break off a piece of China and give it to the Palestinians.

Why don't we just stick all the Israelis on Madagascar and give Palestine back to the Palestinians?

Funny you should mention that. It was one of the suggestions seriously considered by the Germans, but the British fucked it up with their naval blockade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

Ah, that's unfortunate. Did the Germans explore any feasible alternatives?

They did! Showers and ovens.

[Votanic]

Why don't we just break off a piece of China and give it to the Palestinians.

Why don't we just stick all the Israelis on Madagascar and give Palestine back to the Palestinians?

Funny you should mention that. It was one of the suggestions seriously considered by the Germans, but the British fucked it up with their naval blockade.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madagascar_Plan

Ah, that's unfortunate. Did the Germans explore any feasible alternatives?

...because you're okay with the Jews taking the Malagasy's land?

[Lonous]

The nation of Yemen pledged to take up the fight of the Palestinians and has officially declared war on Israel.

https://report.az/en/other-countries/ye ... on-israel/
https://odessa-journal.com/yemen-has-de ... -on-israel

[Pack Rat]

The nation of Yemen pledged to take up the fight of the Palestinians and has officially declared war on Israel.

https://report.az/en/other-countries/ye ... on-israel/
https://odessa-journal.com/yemen-has-de ... -on-israel

Too funny! Yemen has it's own problem trying to care for it's own people.

[jusplay4fun]

The nation of Yemen pledged to take up the fight of the Palestinians and has officially declared war on Israel.

https://report.az/en/other-countries/ye ... on-israel/
https://odessa-journal.com/yemen-has-de ... -on-israel

Too funny! Yemen has it's own problem trying to care for it's own people.

I think Pack Rat is on to something here:

The impoverished and deeply unstable southern Arabian peninsula country of Yemen on Tuesday officially declared war on Israel, sources on Twitter reported incorrectly as they don't understand that when the Iranian-backed Shiite Houthi rebels call themselves the "Yemeni Armed Forces," it doesn't actually mean that they're the government of Yemen. The Houthis did launch missiles at Israel on Tuesday, but given the attacks were deflected fairly easily by the Iron Dome, per the IDF.

This is obviously not good news, but it's very, very short of the apocalyptic escalation people have been fearing in the weeks since the Hamas attack. So don't freak the f*ck out if you see someone posting "YEMEN DECLARES WAR ON ISRAEL!!!11!!" The Houthis are non-state actors.

https://nationalzero.com/2023/10/31/yemen-declares-war-on-israel-misreport/

also:
https://ktvz.com/news/ap-national-news/2023/10/31/yemens-houthi-rebels-claim-attacks-on-israel-drawing-their-main-sponsor-iran-closer-to-hamas-war/

[Lonous]

The Houthis are non-state actors.

Yeah there will be lots of noise and static over the issue of Yemen.
There use to be 2 Yemens, North and South; We supported one, disliked the other.
They had a war, then a forced unification marriage, then a civil war.
The end result was the guys we don't like, won.
We have bullied much of the western world into not recognizing them as valid, the same way much of the world didn't/don't recognize Israel.

However

In late 2014, Houthis repaired their relationship with the former president Ali Abdullah Saleh, and with his help, they took control of the capital

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement

Still a western supported incursion fighting them which has been going on for years, but the Houthis hold the capital, have non nuclear ballistic missiles with 1,000 kilometer range, and have half a dozen allied countries.

But beyond all that, Israel, Pakistan, Yemen, and at least India are all reporting it as the official start of war.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/flashes/618419
https://www.samaa.tv/208733603-yemen-de ... a-conflict
https://www.albawaba.com/news/yemen-dec ... el-1539832

[Dukasaur]

The nation of Yemen pledged to take up the fight of the Palestinians and has officially declared war on Israel.

https://report.az/en/other-countries/ye ... on-israel/
https://odessa-journal.com/yemen-has-de ... -on-israel

Too funny! Yemen has it's own problem trying to care for it's own people.

And apparently you have your own challenges distinguishing between "it's" and "its".

The Houthis are non-state actors.

Yeah there will be lots of noise and static over the issue of Yemen.
There use to be 2 Yemens, North and South; We supported one, disliked the other.
They had a war, then a forced unification marriage, then a civil war.
The end result was the guys we don't like, won.
We have bullied much of the western world into not recognizing them as valid, the same way much of the world didn't/don't recognize Israel.

However

In late 2014, Houthis repaired their relationship with the former president Ali Abdullah Saleh, and with his help, they took control of the capital

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Houthi_movement

Still a western supported incursion fighting them which has been going on for years, but the Houthis hold the capital, have non nuclear ballistic missiles with 1,000 kilometer range, and have half a dozen allied countries.

But beyond all that, Israel, Pakistan, Yemen, and at least India are all reporting it as the official start of war.
https://www.israelnationalnews.com/flashes/618419
https://www.samaa.tv/208733603-yemen-de ... a-conflict
https://www.albawaba.com/news/yemen-dec ... el-1539832

All true, but the key fact you've neglected to mention:
The Houthis are a pauper state deeply dependent on handouts from Iran, just like Hamas and Hezbollah.

[Votanic]

All true, but the key fact you've neglected to mention:
The Houthis are a pauper state deeply dependent on handouts from Iran, just like Hamas and Hezbollah.

Well, so what...?
In this global economy, almost everyone's money is coming from somewhere else.
As long as the checks don't bounce... we good.

Or do you wan't to follow the money trail and start calling this latest scuffle, the Iran-Israel War... or even the Iran-U.S. War,
...with special guest stars, Hamas!, Saudi Arabia!, and introducing... Yemen!

[Dukasaur]

All true, but the key fact you've neglected to mention:
The Houthis are a pauper state deeply dependent on handouts from Iran, just like Hamas and Hezbollah.

Well, so what...?
In this global economy, almost everyone's money is coming from somewhere else.
As long as the checks don't bounce... we good.

Or do you wan't to follow the money trail and start calling this latest scuffle, the Iran-Israel War... or even the Iran-U.S. War,
...with special guest stars, Hamas!, Saudi Arabia!, and introducing... Yemen!

Yeah, that kinda was the point.

[jimboston]

If we had decimated Iran in the 70’s when they took our hostages we would NOT be having any of these problems.

Yes we would’ve lost 40something Americans at the time… but we would’ve saved thousands of other lives that have been subsequently lost to Extreme Muslim Terrorists. I was only 9yo at the time, but even then I couldn’t understand how this weak ass little country to boldly hold 40+ Americans hostage. It bothered me then that we didn’t have an aggressive military response… and now 40 years later I agree with my 9yo self and know that would’ve been the right thing to do.

Arab culture respects power and takes advantage of perceived weakness. This is why we should’ve annexed Iran in 1979… and it’s why Israel needs to kill ever last Hammas member.

[bigtoughralf]

If we had decimated Iran in the 70’s when they took our hostages we would NOT be having any of these problems.

Yes we would’ve lost 40something Americans at the time… but we would’ve saved thousands of other lives that have been subsequently lost to Extreme Muslim Terrorists. I was only 9yo at the time, but even then I couldn’t understand how this weak ass little country to boldly hold 40+ Americans hostage. It bothered me then that we didn’t have an aggressive military response… and now 40 years later I agree with my 9yo self and know that would’ve been the right thing to do.

Arab culture respects power and takes advantage of perceived weakness. This is why we should’ve annexed Iran in 1979… and it’s why Israel needs to kill ever last Hammas member.

Yeah, if only the US had decimated the Iranian government the same way it did the Iraqi and Libyan ones. Iran could only dream of being as stable and secure as those two countries have been since US intervention.

Being made to stand up and sing to a US flag every day for 12-13 years of schooling really does rot the brain, huh.

[jimboston]

Did you miss the part where I said Annex?

I’m not talking about toppling the gov’t and then pussyfooting around and trying to change the culture overnight while propping up a new set of incompetent and corrupt locals. I’m talking about Annexing, Occupying, and Installing a proper government run with western ideals. Give that a generation or two with severe punishment for violent acts and proper education. Iran would be the gem of the Middle East now instead of a global threat a terror hub.

[Votanic]

Arab culture respects power and takes advantage of perceived weakness. This is why we should’ve annexed Iran in 1979… and it’s why Israel needs to kill ever last Hammas member.

Iranians/Persians are not Arabs, so what you say is inaccurate.
The uniting factor between Iran and the Arab World is the domination of Islam.
I might add that the uniting factor between Iran, the Arab World, Israel and the 'West' is the domination of the Abrahamic super-religion.

I guess there are different ways to cut the cake.

[jimboston]

You can split hairs and say Persian Culture is distinct from Arab culture… and depending on what level you want to get to you might be right. They also have similarities…so perhaps I should’ve said “Middle Eastern Culture” or “Islamic Culture”?

France and England are different cultures, but they are also similar in many ways and can be grouped together and called “The West”.

The point made is still valid… if the USA had crushed Iran the (Arab) countries around them would’ve also to fear the retaliatory nature of our power.

[saxitoxin]

The point made is still valid… if the USA had crushed Iran the (Arab) countries around them would’ve also to fear the retaliatory nature of our power.

-Prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, no Americans had been killed by an Iraq-based government.
-During the U.S. invasion of Iraq, more than 4,000 Americans were killed by an Iraq-based government (Madhi Army and Ba'ath leave behinds).
-After the U.S. invasion of Iraq, at least three dozen more Americans were killed by an Iraq-based government (ISIS).

People only fear unused American power. Once it's actually used, their primary emotion becomes anger.

[Votanic]

People only fear unused American power. Once it's actually used, their primary emotion becomes anger.

That's not always true.
Think about all those very expensive, thermonuclear warheads left unused, basically just rotting in their subs and silos.
It's enough to raise any decent person's ire.
Doesn't anyone think about the hard-working American taxpayer anymore??

[jimboston]

The point made is still valid… if the USA had crushed Iran the (Arab) countries around them would’ve also to fear the retaliatory nature of our power.

-Prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, no Americans had been killed by an Iraq-based government.
-During the U.S. invasion of Iraq, more than 4,000 Americans were killed by an Iraq-based government (Madhi Army and Ba'ath leave behinds).
-After the U.S. invasion of Iraq, at least three dozen more Americans were killed by an Iraq-based government (ISIS).

People only fear unused American power. Once it's actually used, their primary emotion becomes anger.

Can’t turn back time… so bomb the f*ck out of them and be done with it.

We inherited the Middle East established by France and England… and when we bacame “the” superpower we became their target. You want to go back before WW2 and it’s still “The West” that. fucked with the Middle East, but it wasn’t the USA.

We can’t turn back the clock… so the only option now is to show power and not pussy-foot around.

I don’t think we can or will do that… I think most soft Americans would cry that we were “being mean”.

I think if we let our military do their job properly with gloves off there would;ve been fewer casualties.

[Votanic]

I think if we let our military do their job properly with gloves off there would;ve been fewer casualties.

Actually, when a military is functioning optimally there are more casualties.
Play some Conquer Club games. It will help you grasp the concept.

[bigtoughralf]

jim is the poster child for US propaganda being way more effective than Russian or Chinese propaganda.

[saxitoxin]

We can’t turn back the clock… so the only option now is to show power and not pussy-foot around.

No, that's not the only option. We always have the option to simply disengage, withdraw, and ignore.

There has only been one politically-motivated attack by an Arab or Persian national on U.S. territory in the last 250 years that resulted in three or more fatalities (9/11) and the specific reasons given for that attack by the perpetrators were: (a) U.S. support for Israel, (b) U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia, (c) U.S. sanctions on Iraq.

There's a reason they didn't attack Switzerland, Brazil, or Japan.

[Votanic]

There has only been one politically-motivated attack by an Arab or Persian national on U.S. territory in the last 250 years that resulted in three or more fatalities (9/11) and the specific reasons given for that attack by the perpetrators were: (a) U.S. support for Israel, (b) U.S. military presence in Saudi Arabia, (c) U.S. sanctions on Iraq.

saxi, I don't think you really mean to sound this utterly wuss-tastic. Grow a pair.
The U.S. is the greatest country in the world*. We are not going to crawl into a cowardly,isolationist hole in the mud just because a few airplanes and skyscrapers blow up.
There is too much prestige, adventure, money, and power out there for us to take.

I mean seriously, the U.S.'s god-given talent at masterful over-reaction is one of our greatest strengths. From Japan, to Vietnam to Iraq to Afghanistan our wretched adversaries know that the price for screwing with us is the deliveryof mega-tons of whoop-ass.

That's why it makes me feel so sad to think that it is over 75 years since the U.S. droped any atomic/nuclear weapons in actual warfare. The pissant pittance of conventional warfare is looking more and more threadbare. Only the glorious of majesty of atomic nuclei fissioned and fused in the name of...of rightousness, can deliver America's tough-love message to the world.

*Even countries who are technically more populous (India, China) or larger in land area (Russia, Canada), know that any such claims of 'greatestness' they migh make, rest only on relatively flimsy, single-factor technicalities.

[HitRed]

September 13, 22 Home

I quake at the sight; my mighty nation has fallen into ruin. The collapse of this nation* under the current administration has caused the weakening of the world and the onslaught of evil into the world. I beg my children to pray for the upcoming elections. Pray for the right people to be put into office by the people of this nation, not those who seek power and control for evil’s ways. Go therefore and know who you put in office, vote for this country and its people not for some hidden agenda. Seek my ways and not man’s ways says the Lord God.

Go.

* U.S.A

[Dukasaur]

The point made is still valid… if the USA had crushed Iran the (Arab) countries around them would’ve also to fear the retaliatory nature of our power.

-Prior to the U.S. invasion of Iraq, no Americans had been killed by an Iraq-based government.
-During the U.S. invasion of Iraq, more than 4,000 Americans were killed by an Iraq-based government (Madhi Army and Ba'ath leave behinds).
-After the U.S. invasion of Iraq, at least three dozen more Americans were killed by an Iraq-based government (ISIS).

People only fear unused American power. Once it's actually used, their primary emotion becomes anger.

Can’t turn back time… so bomb the f*ck out of them and be done with it.

We inherited the Middle East established by France and England… and when we bacame “the” superpower we became their target. You want to go back before WW2 and it’s still “The West” that. fucked with the Middle East, but it wasn’t the USA.

That's actually not true.

In the early days of WWII, with France dysfunctional and England's survival in doubt, Roosevelt and his mafia stooge Kennedy were sending U.S. agents to the Persian Gulf to undermine British client states there and replace them with OSS stooges, especially the freak Al-Saud and his Wasabi nutcases. The point was to position the U.S. as the new oil super-power, which essentially was accomplished. The unintended consequence was to destroy the cosmopolitan community of the Persian Gulf rulers (mostly sane, secular, Muslim-In-Name-Only rulers, allied to the Hasheamites {who were themselves 40% Christian and not particularly devout even among the 60% Muslim branches of the family}) and elevate the fundamentalist psychotics like Al-Saud.

While pretending to be England's best friend and waxing eloquent about Lend-Lease and the Arsenal of Democracy, you were busy stealing all the best eggs from the English basket.

The unintended consequence was to push the Arab world back into the Dark Ages.

The U.S.A. is the opposite of innocent when it comes to everything that has happened in the middle east since WWII.