[OFFICIAL] Charle's Fun Mafia - "Game On" Day 2

[Extreme Ways]

You see ragian and sonic.
The above interchange between Halrob and extreme could be a mafia oon mafia game calibrated by extreme.
I'm not saying it is, but I'm putting my probability at 40% it is.

Only sonic so far of you two has contemplated this possibility in chat.
But then reverted to sonic and rag , it's one or the other of us.
I however put the probability of sonic and rag being a zero sum game down at 60%.

And to repeat myself and nauseum the probability of ew mafia 95%, and Halrob mafia 40%.

Does this not have any traction at all with either of you?
Shouldn't it?

You are advertising with "40%" a world in which we have zero investigative roles, and 3 protective roles.

You understand what I'm saying even if others don't.
I'm advertising a world in which town may have 2 protective roles and a role (jail keeper) which is 75% protective (possibly 50%) and 25% investigative.

It's offensive, not necessarily investigative. Also depends entirely on how you use it but sure lets use your numbers. (which I disagree with, but alas)

Do you think we have 275% protective and 25% investigative roles, or something more balanced? Like 225% investigative and 175% protective, or 125% investigative and 275% protective?

I vehemently disagree with a Ragian lynch, even more so if you are going to still advocate not to lynch Sonic after despite Ragian's last words. If you are going to do that, pull the votes back to me.

[Loose Canon]

If rag, particularly if rag is lynched and flips town town please re -read everything I have said today.
Extreme has passed the threshold for lynching today and tomorrow.

Extreme is now calculating if he needs to drop the hammer on rag himself at all and if so when.

Town and rag will have given up it's chance to go on the offensive in this game.
All the cards will be stacked in mafias favour.
Mafia however will have a multitude of options.
It won't make a town win impossible, just very very very difficult, and precarious.

If I die in the night I will still be cheering town on.

EXTREME is mafia.

[Loose Canon]

I didn't bother with the FP above.

After the game extreme you can tell me where you think I went wrong in pressing my case , if you think I did.

But I tip my hat to the grandmaster of mafia.
RESPECT

[Ragian]

Loose, you saying that EW lies about the idea of jailkeeper as an investigative role is wrong. I have NEVER thought of the jailkeeper as an investigative role. It protects and block. Then a roleblocker is also investigative role. That's just dumb. If you jail someone, you don't know if the lack of a kill happened because you blocked someone or because you protected someone. Moreover, loads of other things could have happened that a jailkeeper cannot know. On the other hand, an investigative role gets a result: "X visited Y," or "X is guilty".

I'd also disagree with the idea that if there aren't three protective roles (there isn't), then it follows that there can't be three investigative roles. I've modded games this size with tracker-watcher-cop combo and one doc. I've never been in a game this size with three protective roles.

[Loose Canon]

Ok rag first things first, will you please unvote yourself at least while we discuss?

[Loose Canon]

I've not been in enough games to know whether your never been in a game with 3 protective roles is a good argument or not.
I've probably been in under 10 games - all here, what is the population size of your experience.
Am I arguing just because you've never seen it doesn't mean it can't happen, or is your population size of game experience not that much more than mine - say under 20?

[Loose Canon]

Ok I agree with you that any protective role implicitly includes a secondary subtle investigative element too.
As much so or almost as much so as jail keeper does.

[hjelp]

...
...
Extreme is now calculating if he needs to drop the hammer on rag himself at all and if so when.
...
...
EXTREME is mafia.

Regarding EW,

Will EW cast the last vote on Ragian?

I have stated a couple times now that I believeRagian to be town and Sonic to be scum.

No thank you.

EW claims that Rag is a Town
Rag Town:
If EW is Mafia then there will be the hammer on Rag.
If EW is Town then there won't be the hammer on Rag.
Rag Mafia:
If EW is Mafia then there won't be the hammer on Rag.
If EW is Town then there won't be the hammer on Rag.

--- Loose claims - EW is a Mafia
--- EW claims - EW is a Town .

If my head is okey then I stick to that Ragian is a Mafia - in the case - EW doesn't drop the hammer

[Loose Canon]

I think you are doing your best to help Hjelp. Thanks
And your earlier unvote on ragian did help/Hjelp.

Nevertheless I'm asking first townie with a vote currently on ragian to unvote temporarily.
If town mislynches ragian town loses control of the game.
And there is evidence particularly within tenor of many of rags posts that he is town.
I am saying a town rag doesn't preclude a town sonic.

There is a negotiation and looking at merits of assumptions made going on at present and if town can find best or least worst resolution of that for day2 that would far and away be best for town

[Loose Canon]

And townies whose votes are currently on rag, please consider this:

You are prepared to lynch a claimed town doc, but not a claimed town cop.

Last game ew played the vote himself card, was town and was lynched.
Doesn't make rag town this game, but doesn't in itself make him mafia either.

Someone please unvote rag now.

[chanakam2020]

Hm after reading things and reconsideration possibilities
I think , even though Ragian desperately wanted to get lynched himself & even self voted,
Loose Cannons plan is better than Ragians.

UnVote Ragian
Vote Extreme Ways

FPed by myself

[Loose Canon]

Thanks Chana.

Ok ragian let's talk and discuss.

[hjelp]

No, I'm done arguing. I've stated my case.
...
... End this day. Lynch me or lynch Son!c (I prefer the latter, of course). If you make me survive this day, I'm protecting myself. No one has shown me faith enough to earn the good doctor's protection.

If Ragian is a Mafia this would make a lot of sense.
If we let Ragian to survive, and Ragian survives the night, how can we tell if it was by protection as Doc or as Mafia ?

@Ragian
If you are a Town Doc this doesn't make any sense. It does make sense if you are a Mafia.
Would you instead consider to share thoughts of what player to protect? instead of yourself.
Otherwise I will think you are associated to Mafia somehow.

[halrob64]

Go back to night 1
Someone can confirm I'm the town cop according to EW he tracked either Ragian or Sonic who paid me a visit. Sonic has given me 100% support as town cop, he may have done that through knowledge of being the town doc or just decided its to his advantage to do so.
Ragian as town doc would be my protector and if he did visit me has full knowledge of who I am.
I wanted to investigate Ragian but was blocked from doing so. This has actually made me less suspicious of him despite the fact that I have voted to lynch.
EW is high on my list as a mafia suspect and if there were enough support I would probably switch my vote.
I'm not sure what conversations Loose thinks I'm having with EW that points to me being 40% mafia, but its a game of smokescreens and mirrors so I think its just part of his agenda.
As I said someone here does know I'm the town cop maybe there are two of us, who knows what Charlie set up.
If Ragian is mafia or SKand comes through without being lynched then he will be in a strong position.
Just my thoughts and not necessarily those of the police commissioner

[chanakam2020]

[color=#BF40BF]Raz Raz, Where is D-2 Surprise Prize ?[/color]

[Loose Canon]

Go back to night 1
Someone can confirm I'm the town cop according to EW he tracked either Ragian or Sonic who paid me a visit. Sonic has given me 100% support as town cop, he may have done that through knowledge of being the town doc or just decided its to his advantage to do so.
Ragian as town doc would be my protector and if he did visit me has full knowledge of who I am.
I wanted to investigate Ragian but was blocked from doing so. This has actually made me less suspicious of him despite the fact that I have voted to lynch.
EW is high on my list as a mafia suspect and if there were enough support I would probably switch my vote.
I'm not sure what conversations Loose thinks I'm having with EW that points to me being 40% mafia, but its a game of smokescreens and mirrors so I think its just part of his agenda.
As I said someone here does know I'm the town cop maybe there are two of us, who knows what Charlie set up.
If Ragian is mafia or SKand comes through without being lynched then he will be in a strong position.
Just my thoughts and not necessarily those of the police commissioner

I disagree with you on many points you make here Halrob, but the above is a good post, and the fact I disagree with you doesn't make you more likely to be mafia in my eyes. In fact it is possibly slightly the opposite.

Let me go through where I disagree with you:

The fact extreme says someone visited you doesn't mean a lot in terms of your guilt or innocence.
It is now claimed and not denied and I think "confirmed" by sonic that sonic visited you.
Sonic may or may not have visited you, if he did it may have been to either protect or to block you. We only have extreme and sonic saying they visited you, and we only have you saying you tried to investigate ragian.
One or two of you, extreme and sonic could be lying.
At least one of you is probably deceiving in some respect.
On current evidence I don't see how I can work out definitively who is telling the truth and who isn't.

I'm. saying that IF you are mafia you WILL be having conversations with EXTREME because EXTREME IS mafia.
But the same applies to Ragian and Sonic.
I have no definitive way of knowing which of you IS mafia and therefore IS having conversations with Extreme.
I just know one of you is.

Actually in the process of writing out where I disagree with you in your post, I have become slightly, only slightly mind you, more town leaning towards you.

One of halrob, sonic and ragian is mafia with extreme.
I just have no definitive way of knowing which.
And it is really bad for town to choose 1 of between 2 (according to Ragian) or 3 (I'm debating with ragian) players who are with extreme, when they have the option of lynching extreme

Please do join the lynch extreme vote. I know it is small at the moment but momentum can change.
This is a critical point in the game where depending on what happens D2 either town or mafia will have a big advantage.

[Kingm]

Go back to night 1
Someone can confirm I'm the town cop according to EW he tracked either Ragian or Sonic who paid me a visit. Sonic has given me 100% support as town cop, he may have done that through knowledge of being the town doc or just decided its to his advantage to do so.
Ragian as town doc would be my protector and if he did visit me has full knowledge of who I am.
I wanted to investigate Ragian but was blocked from doing so. This has actually made me less suspicious of him despite the fact that I have voted to lynch.
EW is high on my list as a mafia suspect and if there were enough support I would probably switch my vote.
I'm not sure what conversations Loose thinks I'm having with EW that points to me being 40% mafia, but its a game of smokescreens and mirrors so I think its just part of his agenda.
As I said someone here does know I'm the town cop maybe there are two of us, who knows what Charlie set up.
If Ragian is mafia or SKand comes through without being lynched then he will be in a strong position.
Just my thoughts and not necessarily those of the police commissioner

I disagree with you on many points you make here Halrob, but the above is a good post, and the fact I disagree with you doesn't make you more likely to be mafia in my eyes. In fact it is possibly slightly the opposite.

Let me go through where I disagree with you:

The fact extreme says someone visited you doesn't mean a lot in terms of your guilt or innocence.
It is now claimed and not denied and I think "confirmed" by sonic that sonic visited you.
Sonic may or may not have visited you, if he did it may have been to either protect or to block you. We only have extreme and sonic saying they visited you, and we only have you saying you tried to investigate ragian.
One or two of you, extreme and sonic could be lying.
At least one of you is probably deceiving in some respect.
On current evidence I don't see how I can work out definitively who is telling the truth and who isn't.

I'm. saying that IF you are mafia you WILL be having conversations with EXTREME because EXTREME IS mafia.
But the same applies to Ragian and Sonic.
I have no definitive way of knowing which of you IS mafia and therefore IS having conversations with Extreme.
I just know one of you is.

Actually in the process of writing out where I disagree with you in your post, I have become slightly, only slightly mind you, more town leaning towards you.

One of halrob, sonic and ragian is mafia with extreme.
I just have no definitive way of knowing which.
And it is really bad for town to choose 1 of between 2 (according to Ragian) or 3 (I'm debating with ragian) players who are with extreme, when they have the option of lynching extreme

Please do join the lynch extreme vote. I know it is small at the moment but momentum can change.
This is a critical point in the game where depending on what happens D2 either town or mafia will have a big advantage.

Ok LC, you are making a lot of sense, so I will get of then fence and try following your lead.

Vote Extreme Ways

[Loose Canon]

Thank you kingm.

That is indicative to me that the third mafiosi besides
1. Extreme
2. One of sonic , ragian , Halrob
is less likely to be you than the remaining players

You are still as likely to be sk as any of the remaining players.

And of the remaining players the player I trust most of all to be town is Chana.

Thank you.

[hjelp]

@Loose

Who did our JK jail?

[Loose Canon]

@Loose

Who did our JK jail?

Absolutely no idea..
And a player doesn't know if they've been jailed unless if they have tried so do something but it didn't work.
So it could have been Halrob a bit more likely than others but there are a lot of other potential reasons why the Halrob claimed no result on rags occurred or didn't occur.

[Charle]

Vote Count:

Ragian (4) - Ragian, Sonic, Devon, Rob
EW (3) - Loose, Chanakam, King
Sonic (2) - Devante, EW
King (1) - Max

11 Alive - 6 Needed for lynch

End of day, 12H00 GMT Friday 26 September

[Loose Canon]

Actually Hjelp just been thinking about your question and my response as to who Darin our jk jailed last night in the shower (sorry ERaducanu it wasn't you today)

It arguably actually would have been a good use of JK power by Darin if he did jail Halrob. The thinking by jk would have been I don't know if Halrob is guilty or not, but if I jail a real town cop he won't get a result from his investigation therefore I can be pretty sure he is a cop.
And if mafia try to kill him, they won't succeed.
It would have been good logic from Darin.
Somebody I think it was sonic offered the opinion that it would have been a newbie mistake to make for jk to jail claimed town cop.
Why am I finding myself disagreeing in the end with so much you say in this game sonic?

As the jk died the proving innocence of Halrob doesn't hold as well.

Realising that jk was dead, a clever cunning mafia team including Halrob, could concoct the Halrob got no result on ragian line to fit with the dead jk. Mafia does fit/hide their misleads in with truths about what has happened.

Hmmm lot to think about here arising from a good question, but it doesn't detract from extreme being probably guilty

[halrob64]

UNVOTE RAGIAN
VOTE ETREME WAYS

[hjelp]

There are actually two players saying the same thing about Darian play.

well,
regarding
halrob was "blocked by higher authority" (Darin) and prevented to perform an investigate because jailed.

@Son!c
"Its stupid play to JK the cop claimer unless Darin was thinking scum would try to kill him. But thats still noob play"
@EW
"I think Darin knew well enough that protecting Halrob isn't worth the tradeoff since we can't confirm claim"

[hjelp]

Actually Hjelp just been thinking about your question and my response as to who Darin our jk jailed last night in the shower (sorry ERaducanu it wasn't you today)

It arguably actually would have been a good use of JK power by Darin if he did jail Halrob. The thinking by jk would have been I don't know if Halrob is guilty or not, but if I jail a real town cop he won't get a result from his investigation therefore I can be pretty sure he is a cop.
And if mafia try to kill him, they won't succeed.
It would have been good logic from Darin.
Somebody I think it was sonic offered the opinion that it would have been a newbie mistake to make for jk to jail claimed town cop.
Why am I finding myself disagreeing in the end with so much you say in this game sonic?

As the jk died the proving innocence of Halrob doesn't hold as well.

Realising that jk was dead, a clever cunning mafia team including Halrob, could concoct the Halrob got no result on ragian line to fit with the dead jk. Mafia does fit/hide their misleads in with truths about what has happened.

Hmmm lot to think about here arising from a good question, but it doesn't detract from extreme being probably guilty

There are two players saying the same about Darin play

well,
regarding
halrob was "blocked by higher authority" (Darin) and prevented to perform an investigate because jailed.

@Son!c
"Its stupid play to JK the cop claimer unless Darin was thinking scum would try to kill him. But thats still noob play"
@EW
"I think Darin knew well enough that protecting Halrob isn't worth the tradeoff since we can't confirm claim"