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You have a British perspective on these matters, as I do an American viewpoint. Let me quibble on a few points.Apatheist wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2026 5:40 am As I said, your Confederacy lasted less time than you were (probably) in high school.
If you want to talk freedom, your beloved state supported slavery and went to war to defend it, thirty years after Britain abolished it.
All empires rise and fall, and ours was given back because it was the right thing to do, not won back with violence like the others. The fact that most of the world can make themselves understood in English is down to us; the fact that all air travel conversations are in English makes travel much easier for the likes of me and you (assuming you're allowed to fly).
Our politicians are awful, like most around the world - the royals have a role in keeping them real.
You're currently being run by a wannabe dictator, who's making his own mess of the world; the next empire will be the Chinese, if they want it, or Muslim, if they can agree amongst themselves. America should be stopping it happening, but they're too arrogant to notice.
Air traffic control is in English, partly due to American building commercial aircraft after WWII and that Americans set up a system of aircraft control. Yes, the English did so, too. Yes, English was widely used in Science and Diplomacy, so that too are factors.Franklin D. Roosevelt (FDR) played a significant role in preventing Winston Churchill from re-establishing the British Empire after World War II.
FDR's vision for post-war peace emphasized self-determination and equality among nations, which conflicted with Churchill's desire to maintain British imperial interests. During their discussions, FDR was firm in advocating for a world order that would not allow for the continuation of colonial despotism, insisting that the peace must include equality for all peoples
Churchill, on the other hand, was concerned about the stability of the British Empire and sought to preserve its economic agreements and influence. This fundamental disagreement highlighted the tensions between their respective visions for the post-war world, ultimately leading to a shift away from traditional imperialism in favor of a more equitable international framework

ConfederateSS wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2026 3:51 amConfederateSS wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2026 2:31 am -------------------TODAY 36 EARS AGO.........Saddam Hussein invaded KUWAIT...THE GULF WAR(August 2nd,1990 A.D.----February 28th,1991 A.D.).......Kicked off......Saddam wanted control over the oil...But he was using the excuse of putting back PERSIA....During The Iran/Iraq war...The USA supplied Iraq with money and weapons to fight The USA's enemy Iran,after The Iranians took U.S. hostages in 1979 A.D...THE GULF WAR WAS 35 NATIONS LED BY THE UNITED STATES of AMERICA vs IRAQ...
-----------------HEADED BY GENERAL H.NORMAN SCHWARZKOPF...HE HAS "WAR" IN HIS NAME.....THE RIGHT GUY FOR THE JOB...![]()
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...His family has a great deal in American History....His Father was one of the head law officers....Who worked on The Kidnapping of The Lindbergh(Charles)(1st to fly a plane across The Atlantic Ocean...U.S. to France...) Baby...
-----------------The WAR WAS WON.....BUT SADDAM STAYED IN POWER....Only to lose to AMERICA LATER....UNTIL THE USA FINALLY TOOK CARE OF IT'S MISTAKE SUPPLYING IRAQ YEARS EARLIER,JUST BECAUSE OF IRAN........WHICH PRESIDENT DONALD J. TRUMP IS NOW FINALLY TAKING CARE OF....![]()
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.......THAT'S HOW YOU DO IT....BOMB THE CRAP OUT OF THEM...DESTROY THEIR NAVY,AIR FORCE ETC..ETC...NOT GIVE THEM MONEY LIKE OBAMA.....
....TRUMP HAS ALSO GOTTEN THE REST OF THE PERSIAN GULF TO HELP FIGHT IRAN...Although you can blame The British for all of this....They busted up the area after they took it from the Ottomans at the end of WW1......
ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
----------------------MLB gave The HOSTAGES...A PASS TO EVERY MLB GAME FOREVER...WORLD SEIRES ETC....The nicest thing , SPORTS HAS EVER DONE...![]()
For those who prefer facts:ConfederateSS wrote: Sun Aug 02, 2026 9:26 am -------------The Facts are......THE BRITISH EMPIRE BROUGHT SLAVES TO AMERICA........BROKE UP PERSIA AFTER WW1..."SIR LAWRENCE OF ARABIA!!!"........WHICH LED TO THE RISE OF SADDAM HUSSEIN.....The U.S. did supply him with money ,weapons.........He was trying to put Persia back...With His August 2nd, 1990 A.D. invasion....Wouldn't have been there,in power...If Great Britain hadn't of broke Persia up.....BUT TODAY IS IRAQ'S INVASION DAY...........AS FOR 300 Years...North and South America....Europe,Africa,Asia,Australia,Antarctica...Britain had The best navy...ruled the seas....The world/The Sun never sets on The British Empire....
----------------If it wasn't for AMERICA/USA, ENGLAND WOULD BE SPEAKING GERMAN....SAVING YOU TWICE,IN 2 WORLD WARS..AMERICA/USA 250![]()
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ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...
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After the Fall of France in June 1940, Hermann Göring advised Adolf Hitler to occupy Spain and North Africa, rather than to invade the British Isles. Similarly, before the armistice with France had been signed, General Heinz Guderian also argued for seizing Britain's strategically-important naval base of Gibraltar. Guderian even urged Hitler to postpone the armistice so that he could rush on through Spain with two Panzer divisions, take Gibraltar and invade French North Africa. General Alfred Jodl, Chief of Staff of Oberkommando der Wehrmacht (OKW) operations, presented Hitler with a formal plan to cut Britain from the east of its empire by invading Spain, Gibraltar, North Africa and the Suez Canal, instead of invading Britain. - Wikipedia
https://www.britannica.com/on-this-day/August-9Pompey the Great defeated by Julius Caesar at the Battle of Pharsalus
During the Roman Civil War of 49–45 bce, Julius Caesar’s troops on this day in 48 decisively defeated the army of Pompey at the Battle of Pharsalus, causing Pompey to flee to Egypt, where he was subsequently murdered.
1942
After the arrests of Mahatma Gandhi and dozens of other leaders of the Congress Party by British authorities, Aruna Asaf Ali raised the Indian flag in Bombay, defying British orders and rallying supporters. Her action marked the definitive beginning of the Quit India Movement.
Amedeo Avogadro (for those interested in Science and Chemistry, specifically)
Born this day in 1776, Amedeo Avogadro of Italy showed that, under controlled conditions of temperature and pressure, equal volumes of gases contain an equal number of molecules—what became known as Avogadro’s law.
1173
In Pisa, Italy, construction began on a bell tower that became internationally famous as the Leaning Tower of Pisa.

Seven minutes that saved the Pacific War in World War II
This video tells the story of the night USS Washington fought alone against a Japanese fleet. It follows Admiral Willis Lee, his radar operators, and the desperate battle to save Henderson Field. The story reveals how seven minutes of radar-guided fire changed the course of the Pacific War. In November 1942, Guadalcanal stood on the edge of collapse, threatened by a powerful Japanese bombardment force. With destroyers sinking around them and South Dakota crippled, Washington became the last obstacle between the enemy and disaster. Guided only by the faint glow of experimental radar, Lee struck with unprecedented precision, sinking Kirishima and shattering Japan’s night-fighting dominance. This episode explores the bravery, sacrifice, and innovation that reshaped naval warfare and ensured the survival of the campaign that turned the tide of World War II.

I thought Midway solved all thisjusplay4fun wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2026 9:59 pmSeven minutes that saved the Pacific War in World War II
This video tells the story of the night USS Washington fought alone against a Japanese fleet. It follows Admiral Willis Lee, his radar operators, and the desperate battle to save Henderson Field. The story reveals how seven minutes of radar-guided fire changed the course of the Pacific War. In November 1942, Guadalcanal stood on the edge of collapse, threatened by a powerful Japanese bombardment force. With destroyers sinking around them and South Dakota crippled, Washington became the last obstacle between the enemy and disaster. Guided only by the faint glow of experimental radar, Lee struck with unprecedented precision, sinking Kirishima and shattering Japan’s night-fighting dominance. This episode explores the bravery, sacrifice, and innovation that reshaped naval warfare and ensured the survival of the campaign that turned the tide of World War II.
The Battle of Midway (at sea) and Guadalcanal (on Land) turned the tide against Japan; they did NOT by themselves win the war in the Pacific.HitRed wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2026 5:57 amI thought Midway solved all thisjusplay4fun wrote: Sun Aug 09, 2026 9:59 pmSeven minutes that saved the Pacific War in World War II
This video tells the story of the night USS Washington fought alone against a Japanese fleet. It follows Admiral Willis Lee, his radar operators, and the desperate battle to save Henderson Field. The story reveals how seven minutes of radar-guided fire changed the course of the Pacific War. In November 1942, Guadalcanal stood on the edge of collapse, threatened by a powerful Japanese bombardment force. With destroyers sinking around them and South Dakota crippled, Washington became the last obstacle between the enemy and disaster. Guided only by the faint glow of experimental radar, Lee struck with unprecedented precision, sinking Kirishima and shattering Japan’s night-fighting dominance. This episode explores the bravery, sacrifice, and innovation that reshaped naval warfare and ensured the survival of the campaign that turned the tide of World War II.![]()

That is what I said:
One is 1A and the other is 1B; what is the debate here? Without BOTH, Victory in the Pacific is delayed for the USA vs. Japan.The Battle of Midway (at sea) and Guadalcanal (on Land) turned the tide against Japan; they did NOT by themselves win the war in the Pacific.
viewtopic.php?p=5256274&hilit=Midway#p5256274by jusplay4fun
Fri Aug 12, 2022 3:35 am
https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/world/th ... 8d9718ee58The site of the US's first major World War II offensive in the Pacific is the scene of new struggle with China
Eighty years ago, Allied troops stormed the beaches of Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands.
It was the first Allied offensive in the Pacific, and it began to roll back the Japanese advance.
The Solomons are now the site of another competition between the US and its allies and China.
After a massive air and naval bombardment early on August 7, 1942, some 11,000 US Marines stormed the islands of Guadalcanal, Tulagi, and Florida in the southern part of the Solomon Islands.
Coming exactly eight months after the attack on Pearl Harbor, the landings were the first Allied offensive action of the Pacific theater.
The focus was on Guadalcanal, where the Japanese had begun constructing an airfield a month earlier. If completed, it would have directly threatened Australia and its supply lines and set the stage for further Japanese advances.
What followed was a brutal six-month slog involving every US military branch, including the Coast Guard. More than 60,000 US and 31,000 Japanese troops would fight in three major land engagements, seven naval battles, and near constant aerial bombardments and dogfights.
The first offensive
By July 1942, the situation in the Pacific had begun to stabilize.
Japan's seemingly unstoppable advance toward Australia had been checked at the Battle of the Coral Sea in May, and a month later the Japanese lost four fleet carriers, some 250 aircraft, and over 3,000 sailors and pilots at the Battle of Midway.
Both battles were milestones in the war and left the Japanese military essentially unable to mount further large-scale offensives.
In those battles and virtually every other engagement in the Pacific to that point, the Allies had been on the defensive, and they were determined to change that.

above, from AI Summary, is NOW quoted, as of 8/11/26Is Midway the turning point of the war in the pacific in world war 2?
Yes, the Battle of Midway is widely regarded as the turning point of the war in the Pacific during World War II. Fought from June 3 to June 6, 1942, this decisive battle marked a significant shift in naval power from Japan to the United States. The American forces successfully destroyed four Japanese aircraft carriers, which severely weakened Japan's naval capabilities and ended its ability to conduct offensive operations in the Pacific
This victory, combined with subsequent battles like Guadalcanal, helped to turn the tide against Japan
https://www.historyanswers.co.uk/histor ... the-start/8th March 2020 By Tim Williamson
Midway: Epic turning point of the Pacific war
WWII historian, author and broadcaster James Holland explores the build-up, events and aftermath of the pivotal naval battle of the Pacific War
At 10.20am on the morning of 4 June 1942, the United States was losing the war in the Pacific. At 10.27am, it was winning. In those seven minutes everything changed in what was really the American Trafalgar and which saw the Imperial Japanese Fleet annihilated in a spectacular confrontation that was dramatically unexpected. It’s an incredible story and it’s no wonder it has become the subject of a new movie.
Although the loss of Hiryu was a terrible further blow for the Japanese, in truth the battle, and arguably the entire Pacific War, had been won in those seven minutes between 10.20am and 10.27. It had been an astonishing victory by the Americans, who, without doubt, had begun the day as the underdogs. On that one June day, however, Japanese hopes of further consolidation in the Pacific were dashed for ever, their one chance to halt the Americans lost. (...)
And just two years later, the US Navy attacked the Japanese island of Saipan with a staggering twenty-four carriers. Its moment of weakness had been in the initial six months of war, but at Midway, good fortune, brilliant intelligence and bare-faced courage had conspired with Japanese hubris to bring about surely the greatest victory at sea in American history. The Japanese failure at Midway was one for which they would pay dearly.
https://www.pacificwarmuseum.org/learn/ ... -of-midwayCarrier strikes continued throughout the morning of 4 June, still ineffective due to the lack of American coordination and the superior Japanese aircraft. Yet the Japanese ships were scattered and their fighters had been battling American bombers all morning. The rearming of the Japanese strike force was finally completed, but before the planes could launch, bombers from Enterprise, Hornet, and Yorktown spotted the Japanese carriers and closed in. These strikes found their targets, and with the discarded explosives laying on the flight deck, the first three carriers were set ablaze in minutes. Bombs and torpedoes detonated, fuel lines ignited, and the waiting carrier aircraft set off secondary explosions that turned the carriers into a “flaming inferno.”
(...)
The Japanese had just lost nearly half of their carrier force in the battle and were forced to turn back from their objective. The balance of power in the Pacific began to shift, and the Americans started launching their own offensives against Japan. The Imperial Japanese Navy lost four of its carriers and hundreds of experienced pilots, neither of which they would be able to replace. It was becoming increasingly obvious to both sides that carrier battles would dominate this theater, and the United States continued to improve its carriers and aircraft in order to gain air superiority in later battles. American intelligence, radar, and no small amount of luck had won them the battle of Midway, which has gone down in history as the turning point of the Pacific War.

Midway represented the loss of Japan's most experienced pilots. That, far more than the loss of the ships, was a crippling blow.HitRed wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2026 3:57 pm If you go by the numbers Midway wasn't the turning point. After Midway Japan still had 6-7 Carriers. American had 2, and 1 on the way to the Pacific. Japan still had a large advantage in about every category.
The common perception is most of the 450 Japanese pilots were killed during the battle.Dukasaur wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2026 6:54 pmMidway represented the loss of Japan's most experienced pilots. That, far more than the loss of the ships, was a crippling blow.HitRed wrote: Mon Aug 10, 2026 3:57 pm If you go by the numbers Midway wasn't the turning point. After Midway Japan still had 6-7 Carriers. American had 2, and 1 on the way to the Pacific. Japan still had a large advantage in about every category.
same source, at the start of the article:Some historians argue that Midway was not “decisive” because (with 20/20 hindsight) the ultimate victory over Japan was never in doubt, Midway or no Midway, but was merely the inevitable application of overwhelming U.S. industrial power. Although “what-if” scenarios are generally frowned upon by professional historians, had the battle resulted in a military defeat for the United States, President Roosevelt would have had an extremely difficult time maintaining his very politically unpopular “defeat Germany first” strategy. Imagine a very different world in which Nazi Germany had had time to develop an atomic bomb, or the Soviets had had time to overrun all of western Europe. British Prime Minister Churchill’s statement regarding the Royal Air Force in the Battle of Britain, that “never had so much been owed by so many to so few” applied just as well to the few naval aviators who turned the tide at the Battle of Midway.
After the battle, the New York Times banner headline read “US Army Fliers Blast Two Jap Fleets at Midway.”
The headline in the Japan Times in Tokyo read “[Japanese] Navy Wins Epochal Victory.”
(Over the years I have read probably almost every book on Midway ever written, including the classics, Incredible Victory by Walter Lord, Miracle at Midway by Gordon Prange, and, of course, Samuel Eliot Morison’s coverage of the battle. However, declassification of most World War II intelligence records in the 1970s and newer access to Japanese sources have significantly changed many of the conclusions of those earlier works. A relatively recent work, Shattered Sword by Jonathan Parshall and Anthony Tully, is an extraordinary piece of research, telling the battle mostly from the Japanese side using many Japanese sources, and is probably the most comprehensive and accurate book on Midway I have read. For this reason most of the numbers for casualties, etc., that I use are from this book, although other sources may vary.)
Published: Fri Oct 25 15:13:15 EDT 2019
https://www.history.navy.mil/about-us/l ... 006-1.htmlSamuel J. Cox, Director NHHC
May 2017
**Revised and updated 28 October 2019**
“…the enemy lacks the will to fight…”
—Japanese Midway Operations Order, Commander’s Estimate of the Situation
The Battle of Midway (4–6 June 1942) was one of the most critical battles of World War II, and one of the most one-sided battles in all of history, although achieved at a very high cost for the U.S. aircraft and aircrew responsible for the victory. It was not, however, a “miracle.” At the decisive point of contact, it was four Japanese aircraft carriers (248 aircraft) and 20 escorts against three U.S. aircraft carriers (233 aircraft) and 25 escorts and an island airfield (127 aircraft = 360 total U.S. aircraft). The Japanese had some significant qualitative advantages, principally the ability to launch a massive integrated multi-carrier strike package rapidly, fighter maneuverability, and better torpedoes. However, the United States had some advantages as well, such as the element of surprise, radar, superior damage control, and the ability of U.S. aircraft to absorb damage. Although the total number of Japanese forces committed to the Midway operation (essentially, almost every operational ship in the Imperial Japanese Navy) far exceeded that of the U.S. Navy none but the four carriers were in a position to effect the outcome of the battle at the critical point and time. In terms of numbers and capabilities of the decisive weapon system of the battle, dive-bombers, the two sides were at rough parity.
Commander in Chief of the Combined Fleet Admiral Isoroku Yamamoto based his plan on inadequate intelligence and an inaccurate understanding of American intent, specifically the incorrect assumption that the “demoralized” Americans would have to be drawn out to fight. Therefore, Yamamoto’s force distribution was not optimized for mutual support, but rather for operational deception, to conceal the true extent of the forces employed so as to not prematurely spook the Americans into refusing to give battle. To a degree, his plan worked, in that Commander in Chief of the Pacific Fleet Admiral Chester Nimitz did not know that Yamamoto’s main body of battleships was trailing several hundred miles behind the Japanese carriers (with Yamamoto embarked on the new super-battleship Yamato), intent on ambushing U.S. forces that took the bait of the Midway invasion force. However, by doing so, the main body and other formations in the highly complex Japanese plan had no opportunity to engage U.S. forces in battle. Yamamoto was further hampered by a poorly planned and executed surveillance and reconnaissance effort. He had no idea the American carriers were already northeast of Midway waiting in ambush, and refused to consider the possibility that his plan might be compromised. (In pre-battle war games, the Japanese commander playing the U.S. “OPFOR” did exactly what Nimitz did, with results that were remarkably close to what actually happened, but his actions were ruled “impossible” by the game umpire, and the Japanese game losses were resurrected.)
Admiral Nimitz, on the other hand, had a very accurate understanding of Japanese intent, based on intelligence, of which code-breaking was only a part, albeit significant. Based on breaking the Japanese Navy general operating code (JN-25B) and the work of Commander Joseph Rochefort’s team in Station Hypo at Pearl Harbor, Nimitz knew that Midway was the objective of Japanese Operation “MI,” knew the approximate timing and approximate forces employed (four or five carriers), and knew that the concurrent Aleutian operation (“AL”) was not the Japanese main effort. Armed with this useful, but still somewhat vague code-breaking intelligence, Nimitz nevertheless insisted that his intelligence officer, Commander Edwin Layton, produce a more precise estimate of where the Japanese carriers would be located when first detected. Using all means of intelligence at his disposal, including his intimate understanding of Japanese thought process from his years of language training in Japan, Layton came up with an estimated bearing, range, and time from Midway Island (325 degrees, 175 nautical miles, at 0600 4 June 1942) that Admiral Nimitz later said was “five degrees, five miles, and five minutes off.” The actual location was a little father off than Nimitz stated, but not by much. Actually, the Japanese carriers arrived a day later than planned, but Layton’s estimate had accounted for weather and the Japanese plan had not (see attachment H-006-2 “ISR at Midway”). Nimitz’s decision, although audacious and risky, was not as much of a “desperate gamble” that some accounts have portrayed, but rather was completely in accord with the principle of “calculated risk” that guided Nimitz and other operational commanders during the battle.
Nimitz also later said that the battle was “essentially a victory of intelligence.” Up to a point, Nimitz’s statement is true.
(...) alsoThe Battle of Midway was not won by “Citizen-Sailors.” It was won mostly by volunteer, professional naval officers and Sailors (the draft had only been in effect for a little over a year). The more senior officers and enlisted Sailors had endured many years of inadequate resources, misguided treaty limitations, low pay, slow promotions, the intense isolationist and anti-war backlash from the carnage of World War I, and a profound lack of appreciation and respect for U.S. military personnel in the interwar years by much of the U.S. population. Yet it was these volunteers, and a few draftees, in many cases armed with obsolete, inadequate weapons and hampered by fiscal constraints that severely curtailed realistic training, who held the line and paid with their lives to buy the time necessary for the United States to mobilize its massive resources in people and equipment that ultimately won the war. Compared to the Japanese, the American cost in blood was much less, but still profound: 307 Americans were killed in the battle. The bulk of the losses fell upon the aviators—Marines, Army Air Forces, but mostly Navy. Of the carrier aircraft that engaged the Japanese fleet on 4 June 1942, 40 percent were shot down, ditched due to battle damage or fuel exhaustion, or were no longer airworthy despite recovering on a carrier. Well over 150 U.S. aviators, most of them Navy, made the ultimate sacrifice in winning one of the greatest battles of all time. Although only one Medal of Honor (posthumous) was awarded in the battle (Captain Richard Fleming, USMC), approximately 170 Navy Crosses were awarded to Navy personnel, mostly aviators, many posthumously.
There is ALSO extensive reporting of how ineffective much of the US efforts were (including submarines, bombs, topedoes, and land based bombers), so I see this source as giving a frank and honest evaluation of the US efforts.Over 3,000 Japanese sailors were killed in the battle, most while valiantly trying to save their ships, including over 700 aircraft technicians/maintainers (a very limited skill in the Japanese navy). All 248 carrier aircraft were lost, most going down with their ships, along with several cruiser- and battleship-launched float planes. However, most Japanese pilots were rescued; only 36 were lost on the carriers and 74 in the air, mostly from Hiryu. Most of Japan’s Pearl Harbor–veteran pilots would survive Midway only to perish in the meat-grinder battle of attrition in the skies around Guadalcanal and the Solomon Islands later in the year, where over 1,000 Japanese aircraft would be lost. It was not the loss of pilots at Midway that crippled Japan’s ability to wage offensive naval operations, but rather the loss of the most important Japanese strategic asset, the irreplaceable aircraft carriers. Only one new Japanese fleet carrier would make it into a major fleet action during the war, only to be sunk by a U.S. submarine in her first battle.
I love the football analogy.Battle of Midway: Japan’s Navy Suffers a Mortal Wound
The following article on the Battle of Midway is an excerpt from Barrett Tillman’s book On Wave and Wing: The 100 Year Quest to Perfect the Aircraft Carrier. It is available to order now at Amazon and Barnes & Noble.
The Battle of Midway was a decisive blow to Japan’s naval supremacy in the Pacific Theatre of World War II. Between June 4-7, 1942, the United States Navy struck a blow to Japan’s fleet that was irreparable.bb(...)
For Japan, the Battle of Midway marked the fork in the victory road. Deprived of four carriers and 110 irreplaceable aircrew, Tokyo lost all its misplaced hope of forcing Washington into a settlement. While the Imperial Navy retained strong, capable players, it lacked America’s depth of talent to come off the bench. In football terms, Team America now had possession and would run the ball the length of the field. Chester Nimitz quipped that the epic battle put America “about Midway to victory.”
Additionally, the Battle of Midway removed all doubt that the aircraft carrier had supplanted the battleship as the dominant player on the world’s oceans.
