Moderator: Community Team
Yes, I read what you wrote, AND I did acknowledge that in war, the Fog of War, and in other factors, the "Truth" is NOT Always "true" and that the facts to one side may be appear to be not totally accurate or even a bit ambiguous to the other side.Apatheist wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2026 11:07 am Of course, because spokesmen for the IDF can be entirely trusted to tell the truth.
So are you saying that:Is it perfect? NO, what is? Are civilians KILLED? yes. Intentionally? NO, not in most cases.
The rapper Macklemore is a LIAR, it seems to me.Yes, the overall population of the Gaza Strip has increased significantly since 2003, growing from roughly 1.2 million people in 2003 to over 2.1 million in recent years, despite a small recent decline caused by casualties and displacement during the Israel-Hamas war.
https://www.forbes.com/sites/laurasirik ... d-updated/Sept. 5 - Macklemore continues his stance for Free Palestine.
The next day, on night two of the New Jersey show, Macklemore mentioned Palestine again, telling the crowd that he “wanted to stand up here on stages and stadiums across America and say two words that are very near and dear to my heart: Free Palestine!”
He then addresses his “Jewish brothers and sisters in the audience,” clarifying that his criticisms towards Israel and apartheid, “being against genocide,” are not a criticism of them. He adds that he wanted the people in Gaza and the West Bank to know they have not been forgotten.

This isn't in question.jusplay4fun wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2026 6:07 am In the meantime, Hamas purposely targeted civilians on October 7. Two-thirds of the Jewish casualties that day were civilians. And there is evidence of massive brutality toward civilians.
Currently Reading and Learning, from different sources. BUT: Genocide means KILLING, right, Duk?Dukasaur wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2026 3:40 pmThis isn't in question.jusplay4fun wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2026 6:07 am In the meantime, Hamas purposely targeted civilians on October 7. Two-thirds of the Jewish casualties that day were civilians. And there is evidence of massive brutality toward civilians.
What is in question is what has happened since then.
The Oct 7th incursion involved brutal attacks on civilians. Agreed. Israel had a right to retaliate. Agreed.
What Nutty Yahoo has done in Gaza goes vastly beyond any level of reasonable retaliation. It is an intentional making of the entire district unlivable. The deliberate destruction of buildings, the steady herding of the civilian population from their homes toward smaller and smaller refugee camps, the denial of shipping from the outside world, are all intentionally genocidal acts.

also:Israel blocks crucial supplies from entering Gaza, putting thousands at risk
Restrictions on engine oil and generator parts have delayed aid and dismantled the services people rely on to survive.

Genocide:jusplay4fun wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2026 6:52 pmCurrently Reading and Learning, from different sources. BUT: Genocide means KILLING, right, Duk?Dukasaur wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2026 3:40 pmThis isn't in question.jusplay4fun wrote: Wed Sep 23, 2026 6:07 am In the meantime, Hamas purposely targeted civilians on October 7. Two-thirds of the Jewish casualties that day were civilians. And there is evidence of massive brutality toward civilians.
What is in question is what has happened since then.
The Oct 7th incursion involved brutal attacks on civilians. Agreed. Israel had a right to retaliate. Agreed.
What Nutty Yahoo has done in Gaza goes vastly beyond any level of reasonable retaliation. It is an intentional making of the entire district unlivable. The deliberate destruction of buildings, the steady herding of the civilian population from their homes toward smaller and smaller refugee camps, the denial of shipping from the outside world, are all intentionally genocidal acts.
Destruction of buildings = killing people..??? hmmmm....![]()
(https://www.un.org/fr/node/218413)In the present Convention, genocide means any of the following acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group, as such:
- Killing members of the group;
- Causing serious bodily or mental harm to members of the group;
- Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part;
- Imposing measures intended to prevent births within the group;
- Forcibly transferring children of the group to another group.
Further:At least 70,000 have been killed by Israel since the start of the current Gaza war

Precisely why I've said all along that neither side has the moral high ground here.jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 am There is apparently a difference of OPINIONS here. That is healthy and so is a good discussion. This discussion bring attention to this SERIOUS issue and problem; many have died and many have been injured.
What Duk posted has given me reason to stop and consider other viewpoints and new and recent developments.
To try to BLAME ONLY ONE side is ridiculous, don't you think?
I have to agree with Apatheist here. Trump has TRIED in this conflict to resolve it, as with Ukraine vs. Putin.Apatheist wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:43 amPrecisely why I've said all along that neither side has the moral high ground here.jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 am There is apparently a difference of OPINIONS here. That is healthy and so is a good discussion. This discussion bring attention to this SERIOUS issue and problem; many have died and many have been injured.
What Duk posted has given me reason to stop and consider other viewpoints and new and recent developments.
To try to BLAME ONLY ONE side is ridiculous, don't you think?
America should be using its power to stop the conflict - rather than start new ones elsewhere.

That is the Israeli government's official line. Trouble is, nobody believes what they say.HitRed wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 6:24 am AI
Hamas remains active in the Gaza Strip. Hamas maintains a military structure despite recent losses, including leadership and operational capabilities.
----
Israel's Ambassador
"The one core issue [is] disarmament of Hamas. If Hamas is still in charge over Gaza, there is no hope for Gaza. Whatever money you're going to put there, they're going to take it and transfer it into terror activities," Danon said.
He did add, however, that Israel is preparing for the day when the fighting ends. "We are not waiting for them to disarm. At the same time, we develop those plans. We're getting ready for the day after, but we have to realize that someone, either the IDF, or international forces, someone has to make sure they disarm," Danon concluded.
Good.jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 am There is apparently a difference of OPINIONS here. That is healthy and so is a good discussion. This discussion bring attention to this SERIOUS issue and problem; many have died and many have been injured.
What Duk posted has given me reason to stop and consider other viewpoints and new and recent developments.
I don't think anybody has.jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 amTo try to BLAME ONLY ONE side is ridiculous, don't you think?
Of course some of those deaths are Hamas fighters. Did anyone deny this?jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 amAnd if there is indeed GENOCIDE, would NOT MILLIONS or at least Hundreds of Thousands been killed INTENTIONALLY by the other side? (e.g., SIX MILLION Jews in the Holocaust). Hyperbole is not always a good way to discuss issues. And are not SOME of these deaths of FIGHTERS for Hamas?
No, it is clearly not the case, and it is a strawman argument. I never suggested that "only" innocent civilians are killed, nor, I believe, has anyone else in this thread.jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 amQuoting DukFurther:At least 70,000 have been killed by Israel since the start of the current Gaza war
Hamas, to confuse and to obfuscate, does NOT distinguish civilian vs. Military casualties. Hamas wants to make it SEEM as if ONLY innocent civilians are killed when this is CLEARLY NOT the case.
Let us deal with this POINT, for starters:Dukasaur wrote: Fri Sep 25, 2026 7:15 pmThat is the Israeli government's official line. Trouble is, nobody believes what they say.HitRed wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 6:24 am AI
Hamas remains active in the Gaza Strip. Hamas maintains a military structure despite recent losses, including leadership and operational capabilities.
----
Israel's Ambassador
"The one core issue [is] disarmament of Hamas. If Hamas is still in charge over Gaza, there is no hope for Gaza. Whatever money you're going to put there, they're going to take it and transfer it into terror activities," Danon said.
He did add, however, that Israel is preparing for the day when the fighting ends. "We are not waiting for them to disarm. At the same time, we develop those plans. We're getting ready for the day after, but we have to realize that someone, either the IDF, or international forces, someone has to make sure they disarm," Danon concluded.
Good.jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 am There is apparently a difference of OPINIONS here. That is healthy and so is a good discussion. This discussion bring attention to this SERIOUS issue and problem; many have died and many have been injured.
What Duk posted has given me reason to stop and consider other viewpoints and new and recent developments.
I don't think anybody has.jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 amTo try to BLAME ONLY ONE side is ridiculous, don't you think?
If you're referring to me, I think I was pretty clear in my previous post that, especially during the 26 or 27 years between the Khartoum Declaration and the Oslo Accord, the Arabs were definitely the aggressors.
It's the time since then that is worrisome. And even then, all preponderance of blame did not shift immediately.
But you are old enough to remember those days. You should know how on both sides, Arab and Jew, there was such a wave of war fatigue and such a strong desire for peace. The possibility for peace was very real then. Not universal, of course. I'm sure there were many (yes, on both sides!) who were unwilling to let go of their hate and wanted war to continue. But they were definitely in the minority.
One man, Nutty Yahoo, made it his life's mission, to undermine the Oslo Accord and provoke violence and the resumption of war. He wasn't the only one who wanted war, no. But he was the only one who wanted war and had the political cunning to steer his nation in that direction.
You have not tried to refute that, not could you. Nutty Yahoo's own published statements confirm it.
Of course some of those deaths are Hamas fighters. Did anyone deny this?jusplay4fun wrote: Thu Sep 24, 2026 11:40 amAnd if there is indeed GENOCIDE, would NOT MILLIONS or at least Hundreds of Thousands been killed INTENTIONALLY by the other side? (e.g., SIX MILLION Jews in the Holocaust). Hyperbole is not always a good way to discuss issues. And are not SOME of these deaths of FIGHTERS for Hamas?
Even Hitler generally didn't just shoot Jews wholesale in the street, except in the last year of the war. Until then, the strategy was to pack them into crowded, unsanitary concentration camps, work them hard, keep them cold and malnourished. Let disease and hunger take care of most, only spend money killing the survivors.
That is not much different from what is happening in Gaza. As people are herded out of their homes, the homes are bulldozed behind them, so they have nothing to return to. They are herded into ever smaller and more crowded tent cities, where diseases spread fast and hunger is common. Only a small minority are actually shot; the plan is to let disease and famine take most of them, then deport the remainder once a refuge can be found.
more, also from AI:There has never been a fully sovereign state called Palestine. While the term "Palestine" has historical significance and is used to refer to the territories of the West Bank and Gaza Strip, it has not existed as an independent, recognized country in the modern sense. The Palestinian Liberation Organization declared a State of Palestine in 1988, which is recognized by many countries, but it lacks full sovereignty and control over its territories.
Historically, the region has been governed by various empires and states, but never as an independent Arab nation
Palestine has been and is a region, but a nation, not in the real sense.The name "Palestine" has a complex origin rooted in ancient history. It derives from the Latin "Palestina," which was used to refer to a Roman province. This, in turn, comes from the Greek "Palaistinē," as noted by Herodotus. The Greek term is believed to be linked to the Hebrew word "Pelesheth," meaning "Philistia" or the land of the Philistines
The Arab states never set up a government for the Arabs in the Region of Palestine. There was NO Palestine nation.After Israel's declaration of independence on May 14, 1948, neighboring Arab states, including Egypt, Jordan, Syria, and Iraq, intervened militarily, leading to the 1948 Arab-Israeli War. These states sought to support the Palestinian Arabs and oppose the establishment of Israel, but they did not establish a unified governance structure for the Arab population in the region
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... 93present)According to United Nations figures, 726,000 Palestinians had fled or were expelled by the Israelis between 1947 and 1949.[13] The precise number of refugees, many of whom settled in refugee camps in neighboring states, is a matter of dispute[14] but around 80 percent of the Arab inhabitants of what became Israel (half of the Arab total of Mandatory Palestine) left or were expelled from their homes.[15][16]


September 26, 26 Adoration
Message from Jesus
I call you and you do not come. I speak and you do not listen. Why must you weary the Lord God of heaven and earth. Why do you steal what is not yours? Taking from others what is not yours goes against my commands. Hurting one another hurts the Lord God who created each and every soul. You hurt one of my creations and thereby hurt me. Stop sinning and turn to me, the Christ.
There is NO Genocide NOR Deflection.Apatheist wrote: Sat Sep 26, 2026 8:15 am With murder, it's not how, it's how many. It doesn't matter if there are concentration camps or not. That's just deflecting from the issue.
Was it ConfedSs who was talking about elections recently?The last election in Gaza occurred on January 25, 2006. This was a parliamentary election in which Hamas won a significant majority, securing 76 out of 132 seats in the Palestinian Legislative Council. Since then, there have been no further elections for either the legislature or the presidency.

