Post Any Evidence For God Here

[jusplay4fun]

Bosons are proof that God loves us and wants us to be happy.

Bosons? OR was that meant to be a JOKE?

And yes, I do know what bosons are, and I did not need to look that up. I do know a wee bit of Physics.

And as to my previous post, I do realize that this post and the majority of this conversation (or discussion) is from 2015. I know that one participant is no longer with us and I cannot say I know the one other. I did have discussions with tzor about Science, especially as they relate to Astronomy.

[DaGip]

The evidence for God is observation.
If life is meant to observe the universe around it, what then is the purpose?
Observation pulls the universe together for the observer.
If there is absolutely no observation, then the universe does not exist.

[2dimes]

DaGip, so nice to see your post.

You’re evidence for me. Do you still collect masks and pipes? I bought a pipe and tried it. Boy was that a surprise. It tasted like regular tobacco smoke. I found that strange because the fragrant aroma is so pleasant.

I hope you’re having a great year.

15 pages for this thread?

There's no such thing as evidence for god!!!!!

Faith and Science are 2 separated things.

If you wanna believe in god don't look for evidence, go to church. Just be careful not to be raped by a priest.

Now there’s ten times that many pages.

[Apatheist]

The evidence for God is observation.
If life is meant to observe the universe around it, what then is the purpose?
Observation pulls the universe together for the observer.
If there is absolutely no observation, then the universe does not exist.

Not true.
The universe existed long before there was anyone around to observe it; therefore, by definition, no gods would have existed (which I believe is true, since they are all man-made).

[ConfederateSS]

The evidence for God is observation.
If life is meant to observe the universe around it, what then is the purpose?
Observation pulls the universe together for the observer.
If there is absolutely no observation, then the universe does not exist.

Not true.
The universe existed long before there was anyone around to observe it; therefore, by definition, no gods would have existed (which I believe is true, since they are all man-made).

---------NO GOD EXISTED.......THEN HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.....THEN HE MADE ANGELS.......THEN HE MADE MANKIND......A FEW ANGELS GOT JEALOUS OF MAN....GOD CREATED HELL.......SENT THEM THERE......Where They can bother MANKIND.....To Tarnish MANKIND IN GOD'S IMAGE......OUT OF JEALOUSY......
------------------THERE ARE MANY STRANGE THINGS IN THIS WORLD THAT CAN'T BE EXPLAINED......OTHER THAN.......GOD DID THAT.....NO ONE , OR ANYTHING ELSE COULD ... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[jusplay4fun]

The evidence for God is observation.
If life is meant to observe the universe around it, what then is the purpose?
Observation pulls the universe together for the observer.
If there is absolutely no observation, then the universe does not exist.

Not true.
The universe existed long before there was anyone around to observe it; therefore, by definition, no gods would have existed (which I believe is true, since they are all man-made).

---------[size=200 NO GOD EXISTED.......THEN HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.....THEN HE MADE ANGELS.......THEN HE MADE MANKIND......A FEW ANGELS GOT JEALOUS OF MAN....GOD CREATED HELL.......SENT THEM THERE......Where They can bother MANKIND.....To Tarnish MANKIND IN GOD'S IMAGE......OUT OF JEALOUSY......
------------------THERE ARE MANY STRANGE THINGS IN THIS WORLD THAT CAN'T BE EXPLAINED......OTHER THAN.......GOD DID THAT.....NO ONE , OR ANYTHING ELSE COULD [/size]... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

ConfedSs meant to type (I think):

NO, God existed.

THERE is a HUGE difference, based on the little ol' comma.

And some of the angels rebelled against got because they/he wanted to be at least EQUAL to God, NOT out of jealousy of man. We are not that important.

[Apatheist]

I'm sure you're delighted, JP, to have Confed on your side in this debate
May I remind you of the cryptozoology posts? Indeed, all the other unsubstantiated drivel that he's posted that he believes in?
He's not the most credible witness. He apparently has no concept of evolution, biology, chemistry or physics ie the real world.

[jusplay4fun]

I'm sure you're delighted, JP, to have Confed on your side in this debate
May I remind you of the cryptozoology posts? Indeed, all the other unsubstantiated drivel that he's posted that he believes in?
He's not the most credible witness. He apparently has no concept of evolution, biology, chemistry or physics ie the real world.

On my side? You fail to see the Big Picture, Apatheist.

Did you see where I said (now in Large Font):

Re: What does President Trump do NOW?
Post by jusplay4fun » Mon Oct 05, 2026 2:56 am

And ConfedSS missed (intentionally or otherwise) everything that Apatheist and I posted that TOTALLY REFUTE his misconception.

NOTE as usual that ConfedSS NEVER supports his wild and silly allegations and opinions with any citations. He mistakenly thinks that HUGE FONT and many !!!!!!!! prove his point.

Therefore, I do not find him credible; i.e., I do find him full of wild ideas strung together incoherently and with NO supporting evidence and with very little logic.

I look in the mirror and find a man who understands Science, especially Chemistry and Physics.

[Apatheist]

I'm sure you're delighted, JP, to have Confed on your side in this debate
May I remind you of the cryptozoology posts? Indeed, all the other unsubstantiated drivel that he's posted that he believes in?
He's not the most credible witness. He apparently has no concept of evolution, biology, chemistry or physics ie the real world.

On my side? You fail to see the Big Picture, Apatheist.

Did you see where I said (now in Large Font):

Re: What does President Trump do NOW?
Post by jusplay4fun » Mon Oct 05, 2026 2:56 am

And ConfedSS missed (intentionally or otherwise) everything that Apatheist and I posted that TOTALLY REFUTE his misconception.

NOTE as usual that ConfedSS NEVER supports his wild and silly allegations and opinions with any citations. He mistakenly thinks that HUGE FONT and many !!!!!!!! prove his point.

Therefore, I do not find him credible; i.e., I do find him full of wild ideas strung together incoherently and with NO supporting evidence and with very little logic.

I look in the mirror and find a man who understands Science, especially Chemistry and Physics.

Quite so. But according to his and your posts, you believe in the same idea of a deity. Just sayin'...

[Dukasaur]

I've been listening to a podcast series about the Reign of Terror.

Officially, the Reign of Terror started with the Law of Suspects, but it didn't really begin to roll full steam until the slaughter of Hébert and the atheists. Most of the leading Montagnards opposed Hébert and his vulgar extremism, but they agreed with his basic rationale and atheism, and they really shook their heads when he lost his.

Robespierre couldn't overcome his Jesuit upbringing. Although he renounced Christianity, he didn't renounce "God". He kept weaving nonsense about a "Supreme Being" into everything he wrote, very much like his buddy, the American ambassador Jefferson. At first, his allies would just roll their eyes when he started preaching, but as opposition built to his other policies, his theism was one more nail in the coffin.

The "Festival of the Supreme Being" (known more conventionally as the Feast of the Pentecost) was both the apex of Robespierre's power and the beginning of the end. He described it as "the happiest day of his life", a public rejection of atheism, but a mere two months later he would be on his way to the gallows, and the Reign of Terror would be over.

[jusplay4fun]

I'm sure you're delighted, JP, to have Confed on your side in this debate
May I remind you of the cryptozoology posts? Indeed, all the other unsubstantiated drivel that he's posted that he believes in?
He's not the most credible witness. He apparently has no concept of evolution, biology, chemistry or physics ie the real world.

On my side? You fail to see the Big Picture, Apatheist.

Did you see where I said (now in Large Font):

Re: What does President Trump do NOW?
Post by jusplay4fun » Mon Oct 05, 2026 2:56 am

And ConfedSS missed (intentionally or otherwise) everything that Apatheist and I posted that TOTALLY REFUTE his misconception.

NOTE as usual that ConfedSS NEVER supports his wild and silly allegations and opinions with any citations. He mistakenly thinks that HUGE FONT and many !!!!!!!! prove his point.

Therefore, I do not find him credible; i.e., I do find him full of wild ideas strung together incoherently and with NO supporting evidence and with very little logic.

I look in the mirror and find a man who understands Science, especially Chemistry and Physics.

Quite so. But according to his and your posts, you believe in the same idea of a deity. Just sayin'...

Because you and I agree on one aspect of Science does not mean we agree on EVERYTHING about Science or any other topic. Your logic is lacking here.

[DaGip]

DaGip, so nice to see your post.

You’re evidence for me. Do you still collect masks and pipes? I bought a pipe and tried it. Boy was that a surprise. It tasted like regular tobacco smoke. I found that strange because the fragrant aroma is so pleasant.

I hope you’re having a great year.

15 pages for this thread?

There's no such thing as evidence for god!!!!!

Faith and Science are 2 separated things.

If you wanna believe in god don't look for evidence, go to church. Just be careful not to be raped by a priest.

Now there’s ten times that many pages.

Yes, but you look much cooler and distinguished with a pipe!
Do you got yourself a "berry" pipe?
A Berry Pipe is just a regular pipe except that you only smoke Berry/Cherry/Fruity tobaccos in it.
I'm usually not a big fan, but my daughter bought me a Cherrywood Pipe and I wasn't sure what to smoke out of it, so I made it into a Berry pipe.
I found a tobacco called "Cult". Probably the best cherry tobacco I've had.
I've slowed down on the mask collecting some. I might get back into it when I get the house paid off.
Nice to hear from you.

[Apatheist]

I'm sure you're delighted, JP, to have Confed on your side in this debate
May I remind you of the cryptozoology posts? Indeed, all the other unsubstantiated drivel that he's posted that he believes in?
He's not the most credible witness. He apparently has no concept of evolution, biology, chemistry or physics ie the real world.

On my side? You fail to see the Big Picture, Apatheist.

Did you see where I said (now in Large Font):

Re: What does President Trump do NOW?
Post by jusplay4fun » Mon Oct 05, 2026 2:56 am

And ConfedSS missed (intentionally or otherwise) everything that Apatheist and I posted that TOTALLY REFUTE his misconception.

NOTE as usual that ConfedSS NEVER supports his wild and silly allegations and opinions with any citations. He mistakenly thinks that HUGE FONT and many !!!!!!!! prove his point.

Therefore, I do not find him credible; i.e., I do find him full of wild ideas strung together incoherently and with NO supporting evidence and with very little logic.

I look in the mirror and find a man who understands Science, especially Chemistry and Physics.

Quite so. But according to his and your posts, you believe in the same idea of a deity. Just sayin'...

Because you and I agree on one aspect of Science does not mean we agree on EVERYTHING about Science or any other topic. Your logic is lacking here.

Not at all.
Either there is, or is not, a god. The details about Jesus, which flavour of religion to follow etc may vary, but at the basic level, there can only be one of three situations: 1 god, many gods, or none. You and Confed believe in 1 - the same Christian one, as far as these posts indicate. No point trying to hide from it.

[jusplay4fun]

I'm sure you're delighted, JP, to have Confed on your side in this debate
May I remind you of the cryptozoology posts? Indeed, all the other unsubstantiated drivel that he's posted that he believes in?
He's not the most credible witness. He apparently has no concept of evolution, biology, chemistry or physics ie the real world.

On my side? You fail to see the Big Picture, Apatheist.

Did you see where I said (now in Large Font):

Re: What does President Trump do NOW?
Post by jusplay4fun » Mon Oct 05, 2026 2:56 am

And ConfedSS missed (intentionally or otherwise) everything that Apatheist and I posted that TOTALLY REFUTE his misconception.

NOTE as usual that ConfedSS NEVER supports his wild and silly allegations and opinions with any citations. He mistakenly thinks that HUGE FONT and many !!!!!!!! prove his point.

Therefore, I do not find him credible; i.e., I do find him full of wild ideas strung together incoherently and with NO supporting evidence and with very little logic.

I look in the mirror and find a man who understands Science, especially Chemistry and Physics.

Quite so. But according to his and your posts, you believe in the same idea of a deity. Just sayin'...

Because you and I agree on one aspect of Science does not mean we agree on EVERYTHING about Science or any other topic. Your logic is lacking here.

Not at all.
Either there is, or is not, a god. The details about Jesus, which flavour of religion to follow etc may vary, but at the basic level, there can only be one of three situations: 1 god, many gods, or none. You and Confed believe in 1 - the same Christian one, as far as these posts indicate. No point trying to hide from it.

Did I ever try to hide that? What is your point, other than to disagree with me here?

You and I agree on some things and disagree on others. I agree with ConfedSs on some things and disagree on others. What is your point?

The title of this thread is to "Post Any Evidence..." ConfedSs rarely, if ever, posts evidence; he almost always post his OPINIONS, sometimes triggered by something he hears on the News.

There is one God, in my view. In your view, there is none, to simplify your opinion on this matter.

There has been some good discussions on this topic; I have enjoyed that. I doubt that we will convince each other of anything fundamental on this matter.

[Apatheist]

Not hide it, hide from it. The implication of what you said was that you were trying to distance yourself and your beliefs from what Confed says in some way.
You both believe in a god; he believes in a lot of other delusions and unsubstantiated opinions.
I'm simply suggesting that religion might also come into that category.

[jusplay4fun]

Hide from what?

I believe in God. What you label as

delusions and unsubstantiated opinions

is basically your definition of religion, to simplify the matter. I reject your definition.

Because ConfedSS does not substantiate his views on Religion does not make them invalid. I will add that ConfedSs does not express himself in a coherent manner, most of the time and on most subjects. That has not changed since I have started to engage with him on his views. Religious views can be simplified as a matter of Faith; those things are not always going to fit into Scientific Proof and often cannot be substantiated. I can offer the ideas of others, as I have done in several posts on the matter of Religion.

I think Politics is a matter of opinions formed by facts and the news and one's worldview. I think Politics requires substantiation and proof and citation of FACTS to support one's opinion. One can have bad opinions on Political matters, especially if based on false, incorrect, or miscontrued facts. From the "spin" or perspective one puts on facts can flavor one's opinions. I think it more likely that one's opinion causes that person to spin facts to fit a preconceived narrative.

[Pack Rat]

I believe in Santa, the Easter Bunny and Trump!

Boys we are heading to the new Golden Age!

[ConfederateSS]

The evidence for God is observation.
If life is meant to observe the universe around it, what then is the purpose?
Observation pulls the universe together for the observer.
If there is absolutely no observation, then the universe does not exist.

Not true.
The universe existed long before there was anyone around to observe it; therefore, by definition, no gods would have existed (which I believe is true, since they are all man-made).

---------[size=200 NO GOD EXISTED.......THEN HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.....THEN HE MADE ANGELS.......THEN HE MADE MANKIND......A FEW ANGELS GOT JEALOUS OF MAN....GOD CREATED HELL.......SENT THEM THERE......Where They can bother MANKIND.....To Tarnish MANKIND IN GOD'S IMAGE......OUT OF JEALOUSY......
------------------THERE ARE MANY STRANGE THINGS IN THIS WORLD THAT CAN'T BE EXPLAINED......OTHER THAN.......GOD DID THAT.....NO ONE , OR ANYTHING ELSE COULD [/size]... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

ConfedSs meant to type (I think):

NO, God existed.

THERE is a HUGE difference, based on the little ol' comma.

And some of the angels rebelled against got because they/he wanted to be at least EQUAL to God, NOT out of jealousy of man. We are not that important.

----------------NO!!!!!!!!!.......The way I said....Is what happened...........THE DEVIL WASN'T JEALOUS OF GOD.........HE WAS JEALOUS WHEN GOD MADE MANKIND....In HIS image...PLACED MANKIND ON EARTH.....GOD put MANKIND ahead of Angels at that moment, making Mankind in HIS image......THEN THE ARCH ANGEL MICHEAL.......HAD TO KICK THE DEVIL(The Angel Lucifer) OUT OF HEAVEN....For GOD!!!!!....GOD didn't do that himself.......You must not go to church.....Or have any Religious School up bringing.........JP............... ConfederateSS.out!(The Blue and Silver Rebellion)...

[HitRed]

https://www.catholic.org/saints/angels/man_made.php

In Catholic theology, the devil's jealousy of humans stems from their unique relationship with God and the grace bestowed upon them. This jealousy is rooted in the belief that humans, created in God's image, possess a dignity and potential for salvation that the fallen angels, including the devil, have forfeited through their rebellion against God.

[jusplay4fun]

First Point:

ConfedSs, Did you type?

---------NO GOD EXISTED.......THEN HE MADE THE UNIVERSE.....THEN HE MADE ANGELS.......THEN HE MADE MANKIND

Did you mean NO God existed? or NO, God Existed? There is a HUGE difference. Do you see that?

Second:
the quote by HitRed refutes your account, ConfedSS:

In Catholic theology, the devil's jealousy of humans stems from their unique relationship with God and the grace bestowed upon them. This jealousy is rooted in the belief that humans, created in God's image, possess a dignity and potential for salvation that the fallen angels, including the devil, have forfeited through their rebellion against God.

This jealousy occurred as a result AND AFTER their rebellion. Try reading that again, ConfedSS.

ConFedSs, your post suggests that you do not know your Christian Faith, at least not well. And please offer PROOF, citation, EVIDENCE, anything that supports your thinking.

You got the timeline correct, that Man was MADE AFTER the Angels. You failed to realize that the rebellion of Lucifer/Satan OCCURRED BEFORE the creation of Man.

and, while you are reading, read MORE:
Revelation 12:7-17

7 And there was war in heaven: Michael and his angels fought against the dragon; and the dragon fought and his angels,

8 And prevailed not; neither was their place found any more in heaven.

9 And the great dragon was cast out, that old serpent, called the Devil, and Satan, which deceiveth the whole world: he was cast out into the earth, and his angels were cast out with him. (...)

13 And when the dragon saw that he was cast unto the earth, he persecuted the woman which brought forth the man child.

Note the timeline. Which came first?

from AI:

Angels were created before humans according to biblical texts. The chronological order in Genesis indicates that angels existed prior to the creation of humanity, which took place on the sixth day. This is supported by various passages that suggest angels were present during the establishment of the universe.

and MUCH MORE:

When Were The Angels Created?
Angels were created on the first day of creation, as indicated in Genesis 1:1-5. They existed before the creation of humanity and participated in praising God during the process of creation. Understanding this order helps us see the significant role angels play in the divine narrative.

https://thebiblechristian.com/when-were ... s-created/


MORE:

Dead Sea Scrolls
Some scholars discern the concept of a war in heaven in certain Dead Sea Scrolls, namely, the War of the Sons of Light Against the Sons of Darkness, also known as the War Scroll (1QM and 4Q491-497), the Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice, Song 5 (4Q402), and the Melchizedek document (11Q13).

In the War Scroll, according to Menahem Mansoor, the angels of light, who are identified with Michael, the prince of light, will fight in heaven against the angels of darkness, who are identified with Belial, while the Sons of Light fight the Sons of Darkness on earth, and during the last of the seven battles described in the scroll will come and help the Sons of Light win the final victory.

James R. Davila speaks of Song 5 of the Songs of the Sabbath Sacrifice as describing "an eschatological war in heaven similar to that found in 11Q13 and to traditions about the archangel Michael in the War Rule and the book of Revelation".

https://angelology.fandom.com/wiki/War_in_Heaven

from same source as above:

Hebrew Bible parallels
Parallels are drawn to the passage in Isaiah 14:4-17 that mentions the "son of the morning" that had "fallen from heaven" and was "cast down to the earth". In verse 12 of this passage, the Hebrew word that referred to the morning star was translated into Latin as Lucifer. With the application to the Devil of the morning star story, "Lucifer" was then applied to him as a proper name. The name Lucifer, the Latin name (literally "Light-Bearer" or "Light-Bringer") for the morning star (the planet Venus in its morning appearances), is often given to the Devil in these stories. The brilliancy of the morning star—which eclipses all other stars, but is not seen during the night—may be what gave rise to myths such as the Babylonian story of Ethana and Zu, who was led by his pride to strive for the highest seat among the star-gods on the northern mountain of the gods (an image present also in Ezekiel 28:14), but was hurled down by the supreme ruler of the Babylonian Olympus. Stars were then regarded as living celestial beings. The Jewish Encyclopedia states that the myth concerning the Morning star was transferred to Satan by the first century before the Common Era, citing in support of this view the Life of Adam and Eve and the Slavonic Book of Enoch 29:4, 31:4, where Satan-Sataniel is described as having been one of the archangels. Because he contrived "to make his throne higher than the clouds over the earth and resemble 'My power' on high", Satan-Sataniel was hurled down, with his angels, and since then he has been flying in the air continually above the abyss. According to Jewish thought, the passage in Isaiah was used to prophesy the fate of the King of Babylon, who is described as aiming to rival God.

read:
Isaiah 14:4-17

Ezekiel 28:12-17

Luke 10:18

18 And he said unto them, I beheld Satan as lightning fall from heaven.

Enoch 29:4, 31:4

That SHOULD keep you busy for a while, ConfedSS. Come back when you are enlightened by READING and not just offering OPINIONS.

I teach Sunday School. I research what I teach and sometimes research even MORE, to be sure what I say and BELIEVE is correct, based on Scripture and those Church Fathers who offer valid and learned views. I did that HERE, in this post, and my Faith is strengthened after reading ALL THIS.

TRY IT; Learn from Reading, ConfedSS.

[Apatheist]

Isn't it simpler to believe that this is all made up and none of it happened? You'll never KNOW (at least while you're alive), so why worry about it?
Maybe you should stick to reading Rudyard Kipling's "Just so" stories - they're actually coming from a not dissimilar viewpoint in that they try to explain things that exist in the world in a simple way - how the camel got his hump, how the leopard got his spots, and so on. It's a short step to how the day became night, how there's evil in the world, why we cover our bodies etc - just story telling to explain a world that no-one fully understands.
Curious that you mention Ezekiel though - that's the most convincing evidence for the ancient aliens theory. Read that with helicopters and jet-packs in mind, and you get a totally different perspective.

[jusplay4fun]

TRY IT; Learn from Reading, Apatheist.

[Apatheist]

TRY IT; Learn from Reading, Apatheist.

I read Ezekiel. Try reading it without blinkers (or did you mean the town in Berkshire, England? )
I'll give you some hints:

• The Descending Craft: The "windstorm coming out of the north," the "immense cloud with flashing lightning," and a glowing core like "gleaming bronze" (Ezekiel 1:4) are interpreted as the smoke, fire, and heat generated by a spacecraft descending through the atmosphere. [As Captain Kirk says, why would god need a spaceship?]
• The Living Creatures: Ezekiel describes four living creatures with human forms, four wings, and straight legs with sparkled bronze feet (Ezekiel 1:5-7). Space theorists argue these were actually structural supports, landing gear, or mechanical helicopter-like rotor blades.
• The "Wheel Within a Wheel": Ezekiel describes wheels that could move in any direction without turning, rims "full of eyes," and the ability to lift off the ground (Ezekiel 1:15-19). In engineering terms, theorists view this as a multi-directional propulsion system or landing gear wheels.
• The Expanse and the Throne: The "expanse, sparkling like ice" above the creatures' heads (Ezekiel 1:22) is re-imagined as a glass cockpit or capsule ceiling, while the "likeness of a throne" (Ezekiel 1:26) is viewed as the pilot's command module.

Try reading this, you may find it amusing:
https://www.cantab.net/users/michael.be ... er_05.html

[jusplay4fun]

TRY IT; Learn from Reading, Apatheist.

I read Ezekiel. Try reading it without blinkers (or did you mean the town in Berkshire, England? )
I'll give you some hints:

• The Descending Craft: The "windstorm coming out of the north," the "immense cloud with flashing lightning," and a glowing core like "gleaming bronze" (Ezekiel 1:4) are interpreted as the smoke, fire, and heat generated by a spacecraft descending through the atmosphere. [As Captain Kirk says, why would god need a spaceship?]
• The Living Creatures: Ezekiel describes four living creatures with human forms, four wings, and straight legs with sparkled bronze feet (Ezekiel 1:5-7). Space theorists argue these were actually structural supports, landing gear, or mechanical helicopter-like rotor blades.
• The "Wheel Within a Wheel": Ezekiel describes wheels that could move in any direction without turning, rims "full of eyes," and the ability to lift off the ground (Ezekiel 1:15-19). In engineering terms, theorists view this as a multi-directional propulsion system or landing gear wheels.
• The Expanse and the Throne: The "expanse, sparkling like ice" above the creatures' heads (Ezekiel 1:22) is re-imagined as a glass cockpit or capsule ceiling, while the "likeness of a throne" (Ezekiel 1:26) is viewed as the pilot's command module.

Try reading this, you may find it amusing:
https://www.cantab.net/users/michael.be ... er_05.html

open to many interpretations; NO one can claim certainty.

Put it in CONTEXT: Aliens, not likely. Encounter with God or Messenger or Angel? maybe

read Crash go the Chariots, book.

[Dukasaur]

Well played, Ape!