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Postby AK_iceman on Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:47 pm

Ok, I have just read this thread and I would like to ask everyone to be a little patient. :)

Whenever an update occurs, there is always a little time to get it working properly and to get used to it. I don't know if this system will work better than the old one, but I'm willing to try it for a few weeks to find out. When Lack implemented the changes, he carried over the Tournament Name we originally gave you priveleges for. So everyone with multiple tournaments now only had labels for that one tourney. I'll be online for the next several hours attempting to fix all this, so please send me a PM if you need something added.
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Postby Optimus Prime on Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:47 pm

C'mon guys, it's not that bad of a deal. Are any of you noticing that Lack already stated in his post that they are still working on a system for dividing up the divisions? He didn't say there was not any chance, he just said the system hadn't been completely finished yet.

I can understand the anger at not being consulted, or at least not having a short period of time to get some initial feedback, but it really isn't that big of a deal.

I for one, won't stop organizing tournaments over this, its finally a hobby I can have that I don't feel completely useless or pointless doing. Perhaps that is just me though.
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Postby Optimus Prime on Mon Jul 23, 2007 5:49 pm

AK_iceman wrote:Ok, I have just read this thread and I would like to ask everyone to be a little patient. :)

Whenever an update occurs, there is always a little time to get it working properly and to get used to it. I don't know if this system will work better than the old one, but I'm willing to try it for a few weeks to find out. When Lack implemented the changes, he carried over the Tournament Name we originally gave you priveleges for. So everyone with multiple tournaments now only had labels for that one tourney. I'll be online for the next several hours attempting to fix all this, so please send me a PM if you need something added.


I sent you my PM a little while ago, so it should be in the list of whichever ones you have in your inbox. I think I'll be taken care of just fine once you get to it. :)
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Postby Forza AZ on Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:02 pm

AK_iceman wrote:Ok, I have just read this thread and I would like to ask everyone to be a little patient. :)

Whenever an update occurs, there is always a little time to get it working properly and to get used to it. I don't know if this system will work better than the old one, but I'm willing to try it for a few weeks to find out. When Lack implemented the changes, he carried over the Tournament Name we originally gave you priveleges for. So everyone with multiple tournaments now only had labels for that one tourney. I'll be online for the next several hours attempting to fix all this, so please send me a PM if you need something added.

For me there are now 2 tournaments there:

-Around the World in 80 Days (you can remove this one as it was recently finished)
-Doubles for Singles (still running, but I just created the last game today, so also don't need that 1 anymore ;) )

I do need 4 other labels for my Ongoing tournaments:

-Great Lakes Tournament
-Formula 1 Tournament
-Champions League
-Asian Cup.
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Postby AndrewB on Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:12 pm

AK_iceman wrote:Ok, I have just read this thread and I would like to ask everyone to be a little patient. :)

Whenever an update occurs, there is always a little time to get it working properly and to get used to it. I don't know if this system will work better than the old one, but I'm willing to try it for a few weeks to find out. When Lack implemented the changes, he carried over the Tournament Name we originally gave you priveleges for. So everyone with multiple tournaments now only had labels for that one tourney. I'll be online for the next several hours attempting to fix all this, so please send me a PM if you need something added.


So what about them clan games?

And Optimus, stop putting your 1/2 cent worth, while you don't understand what the issue is.
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Postby AndrewB on Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:18 pm

lackattack wrote:I accidentaly installed a new tourney privilege system before it was finished. I am working on this now...


1 question here:
1. How can you accidentally install something? Aren't you the web-master of this web-site? And if you do something "accidentally", don't you make back-ups first, so your "accidental" install can be reverted back?

And this tourney privilege system is NOT finished YET.
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Postby lackattack on Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:26 pm

yorkiepeter: The move to standard labels was not done to punish organizers. It provides a reliable identifier which can be used to search for tournament games and link them to other tournament information in new ways. For example, by matching the label with the privilege, organizers can now be identified and allowed to drop games. I asked the public for feedback on the concept on June 28.

----------------------------------------------------------

kendoh99, Forza AZ and yorkiepeter: Could you guys run your tournaments without any free form text but with several labels (e.g. one for each division). Is free-form text a must or can you adjust to the system if we set up multiple labels for you?

I'm trying to avoid having 2 fields (1 standard + 1 free-form) because I find it to be unintuitive. I think 1 field is simpler for the participants and easier to code.

----------------------------------------------------------

AndrewB wrote:What about clan games? How we are going to start them, if you can only start games in your tournament label?


I'm afraid we are not going to support clan games until we get around to installing rivals, which we are going to look at after the next update.

AndrewB wrote:How can you accidentally install something? Aren't you the web-master of this web-site? And if you do something "accidentally", don't you make back-ups first, so your "accidental" install can be reverted back?


I copied a php file over to the live site instead of the test site :oops: So I already edited my local copy and the test site was already altered. I realized it was easier to rush and get it in working condition rather than bringing a backup copy up-to-date. This isn't the first time this happened, I really should install a version control system. But that will take time & effort and needs to be prioritized with other updates.
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Postby AndrewB on Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:41 pm

lackattack wrote:
AndrewB wrote:What about clan games? How we are going to start them, if you can only start games in your tournament label?


I'm afraid we are not going to support clan games until we get around to installing rivals, which we are going to look at after the next update.



So before we used to have the work-around, and now even this work-around is closed.

Clans have no priority, so I guess me running the public tournament is not priority for me either. I'd like to ask my tournament privileges to be removed (which are useless for me now) and public tournament which I am running is canceled.
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Postby Optimus Prime on Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:48 pm

AndrewB wrote:And Optimus, stop putting your 1/2 cent worth, while you don't understand what the issue is.


Don't even go there buddy. I run 4 seperate tournaments on this site, two of which are huge and time intensive, I have also spent hours setting up recording charts for five or six other tournaments I have waiting in the wings.

You ask anyone that regularly plays in tournaments and they'll tell you I am a respected tournament organizer on this site. They run quickly and efficiently and I can think of dozens of players who think so. I do know what I'm talking about and quite frankly all of this causes just as much trouble for me as it does everyone else. I am willing to work around it, so you should to.

I'm sorry your fun clan stuff isn't working at the moment, I know that is a big deal to lots of players on this site, but don't ever patronize me again.
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Postby AndrewB on Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:53 pm

Optimus Prime wrote:
AndrewB wrote:And Optimus, stop putting your 1/2 cent worth, while you don't understand what the issue is.


Don't even go there buddy. I run 4 seperate tournaments on this site, two of which are huge and time intensive, I have also spent hours setting up recording charts for five or six other tournaments I have waiting in the wings.

You ask anyone that regularly plays in tournaments and they'll tell you I am a respected tournament organizer on this site. They run quickly and efficiently and I can think of dozens of players who think so. I do know what I'm talking about and quite frankly all of this causes just as much trouble for me as it does everyone else. I am willing to work around it, so you should to.

I'm sorry your fun clan stuff isn't working at the moment, I know that is a big deal to lots of players on this site, but don't ever patronize me again.


I'll do that when you will stop commenting on my posts, without you understanding what the issue is LOL.
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Postby AndrewB on Mon Jul 23, 2007 6:59 pm

Optimus Prime wrote:
AndrewB wrote:I had run 2 public tournaments in order to get those tournament privileges to use it in my clan games. Obviously it was the last time I run the tournament. As well as I will consider not to invest any more of my time into completing the ongoing tournament.


Ouch, that's pretty unfair to all those players if you ask me.


Do you think it will be fair to 30 players, which are playing in my private clan tournaments right now?

I have to cancel 5! (five) ongoing private clan tournaments just because this system is implemented, just because I won't be able to create the games for those guys.

Now imagine how pissed off you would have been, if you would have to do it....
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Postby yorkiepeter on Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:07 pm

lackattack wrote:yorkiepeter: The move to standard labels was not done to punish organizers. It provides a reliable identifier which can be used to search for tournament games and link them to other tournament information in new ways. For example, by matching the label with the privilege, organizers can now be identified and allowed to drop games. I asked the public for feedback on the concept on June 28.

----------------------------------------------------------

kendoh99, Forza AZ and yorkiepeter: Could you guys run your tournaments without any free form text but with several labels (e.g. one for each division). Is free-form text a must or can you adjust to the system if we set up multiple labels for you?

I'm trying to avoid having 2 fields (1 standard + 1 free-form) because I find it to be unintuitive. I think 1 field is simpler for the participants and easier to code.

----------------------------------------------------------



Come on lack that was 1 line at the bottom of a suggestion for watched games posted 2 weeks after the previous post. Is it any wonder this was missed?

As to your point about multi labels, yes i could i suppose work with that on my world championships, but not the 1 v 1 league or supreme doubles player league.

This requires 36 games doubles games setting up every 2 weeks for 10 weeks. There are 3 divisions each requiring 360 games that is over 1000 games. This tourny has been carefully designed to use the partial tourny field. The idea is that each of 6 players will partner each other for 6 games and there opponents will be taken from the other 4 players. So in order to know who should join which game i include a code such as abdf, which means that players a and b will play d and f. This is necessary as for that sequence i will have abcd,abce,abcf,abde,abdf and abef. Once a and b have joined i can see at a glance who to pm to join next. Each day i search on partial name 'supreme doubles d1 r1' this will give me all 36 games and i can see who is next to join the game and thus who to pm. without that i would have to keep manual records instead which is possible but would double the amount of time this would take to organise time which i can't afford. Therefore even though i am very enthusiastic about this i would have to abandon it.

The problem with the 1 v 1 league is the number of games needed. I have 11 leagues of 10 players. Each player plays 18 games. That means to pm these individually would require something like 2000 PMs! So I have devised a way where I create the games in the following format '1 v 1 div n xxx' where n is the division number and the xxx is the first 3 letters of the home players name. Now if you were playing you may find your home games by putting the following in tournament field '1 v 1 div 9 lac' you could then join your home games. to find away games ie your opponents home games put in the partial tournament field '1 v 1 div 9' and it will show you your opponents home games and you would join one game from each set. When I come to check the games i would put in '1 v 1 div 9 lac' then i can see at a glance which games you've won, lost and which are still waiting for players.

I am sorry, but these tournys were designed under the old system. I am not being awkward when i say that i could not run a 1000 game plus tourny any other way and regrettably both these tournys would have to be abandoned. The 1 v 1 tourny has already completed one full successful season with 120 participants.

An awful lot of players would be disappointed if this were to happen. I ask you again was this change really necessary? Was the system broken? if not then why fix it? There are a number of eagerly awaited enhancements on your to do list that your customers will just love - surely your valuable time would be better served there?

I ask you again - please can we go back to the old way?

this really is a backward step and you will lose quite a few of your organisers.
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Postby Genghis Khan CA on Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:43 pm

Could lack give some explanation as to what will happen to clan tournaments? Will clans still be able to create internal and external tournament games?

If not then it is very disappointing and I hope something can be done to change the situation.
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Postby lackattack on Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:50 pm

yorkiepeter, those are very ingenious naming systems. I'm impressed!

I understand how a handful of tournament labels are not a good replacement for you.

As for clan tournaments, perhaps we can reach a compromise and set temporary tournament labels for ongoing clan tourneys.

At this time our tournament system is intended for public tournaments and clan tourneys should wait until we have a new clan system.
Last edited by lackattack on Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby yorkiepeter on Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:51 pm

Genghis Khan CA wrote:Could lack give some explanation as to what will happen to clan tournaments? Will clans still be able to create internal and external tournament games?

If not then it is very disappointing and I hope something can be done to change the situation.


he already has

lackattack wrote:AndrewB wrote:
What about clan games? How we are going to start them, if you can only start games in your tournament label?


I'm afraid we are not going to support clan games until we get around to installing rivals, which we are going to look at after the next update.
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Postby AndrewB on Mon Jul 23, 2007 7:59 pm

Actually this statement:
lackattack wrote:I'm afraid we are not going to support clan games until we get around to installing rivals, which we are going to look at after the next update.


is not true. The clan games and private clan tournaments were supported before this update.

Once you had your tournament privileges you could use them up to 90 days for any private tournaments/games you want. There even used to be an official announcement in the "Tournaments" thread about it.

And they dropped this support (which is a work-around really) without any warnings, right in the middle of tournaments which I am running/starting. As well as they deleted that announcement from the "Tournaments" thread today too. Erasing the evidences. :) Spooky....
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Postby yorkiepeter on Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:09 pm

lackattack wrote:yorkiepeter, those are very ingenious naming systems. I'm impressed!

I understand how a handful of tournament labels are not a good replacement for you.



so does that mean we can go back to the old system or at least have a freeform field in place in 2 weeks when i will need to create over 500 games?
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Postby AK_iceman on Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:16 pm

yorkiepeter wrote:
lackattack wrote:yorkiepeter, those are very ingenious naming systems. I'm impressed!

I understand how a handful of tournament labels are not a good replacement for you.



so does that mean we can go back to the old system or at least have a freeform field in place in 2 weeks when i will need to create over 500 games?

No, I'd like to try the new system out for awhile before scrapping it or changing it. I realize it's not completely functional right now, but once all the groups are caught up it should be easy to use for everyone. Directors, Organizers, and members alike. :)
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Postby yorkiepeter on Mon Jul 23, 2007 8:36 pm

AK_iceman wrote:
yorkiepeter wrote:
lackattack wrote:yorkiepeter, those are very ingenious naming systems. I'm impressed!

I understand how a handful of tournament labels are not a good replacement for you.



so does that mean we can go back to the old system or at least have a freeform field in place in 2 weeks when i will need to create over 500 games?

No, I'd like to try the new system out for awhile before scrapping it or changing it. I realize it's not completely functional right now, but once all the groups are caught up it should be easy to use for everyone. Directors, Organizers, and members alike. :)


I really hope you are right, but I cannot see a way how i can run my tournys that were designed for the old system. Maybe you would like to read my post of about an hour ago and if you can find a way round it I will be only too pleased to listen.
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Postby Optimus Prime on Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:17 pm

Did anyone else get their new tags back so they could keep on with their tournaments yet?

I just want to make sure I didn't miss out on anything. I've got 4 tournaments waiting for new games and I really would prefer if they didn't pile up too high before I had the chance to make them.

Regards, Optimus Prime
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Postby Gozar on Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:43 pm

Not yet, but I will let you know when I do, if you do me the favour.
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Postby Optimus Prime on Mon Jul 23, 2007 10:44 pm

Gozar wrote:Not yet, but I will let you know when I do, if you do me the favour.


Most definitely. Thanks.
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Postby AndrewB on Tue Jul 24, 2007 12:37 am

What are the first signs of AIDS?

Those are deep breath behind your back and sharp pain in your a$$.


That is exactly how I feel right now :(
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YES YES YES

Postby Blitzaholic on Tue Jul 24, 2007 1:09 am

lackattack wrote:yorkiepeter, those are very ingenious naming systems. I'm impressed!

I understand how a handful of tournament labels are not a good replacement for you.

As for clan tournaments, perhaps we can reach a compromise and set temporary tournament labels for ongoing clan tourneys.



YES, YES, YES and when will the compromise be?


TY Lack, and our clan needs a forum too please here in CC :!:

We can wait for this in new update about a possible forum, but would be nice for you to permit us the clan tournaments.
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Postby bigbullyweedave on Tue Jul 24, 2007 2:02 am

Don't like the new system at all. It was much easier giving my being able to give additional information to my tournies like "Home Nations Game 37" or "BSCL Div1 Player1v Player2" or "Scottish Cup Final AberdeenvHearts".

With something like "BSCL Div1 Player1v Player2" is meant I could use the same password and having the players names in was almost like an extra to check to make sure players didn't enter the wrong games. Plus have Div1 and players names made it easier for searching for games and recording results.

Have to say as a tournament organiser I'm feeling quite disheartened at this new "improvement".
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