B^aner and other racial slurs debate and the cc rules...

[morph]

i want the debate that was started in the flame forum to come into here since there really is no debate place for this specificly... it has to do with CC, and quite honestly racism used in the flame forum is pretty much happenin anyways, most people call names that are racist or sexist in nature, if you took it all away honestly no one would be posting except "f*ck the dice" and crap...

wicked has mentioned that there is no bashing of nationalities... hell there is tons of bashing of nationalities.. there was threads made on americans, isrealites, jews, and a bunch of other shit.. hell when people were bashing a few plays who were named hitler or had usernames that came near nazism people were screamin things about jews, burning jews and all that crap...

suddenly we have seen a person get banned for talking about illegal mexicans and useing a racial slur to describe them...

i wanna know how this makes sense if wicked has said that nationalities are not to be bashed yet they are all the time, hell half the people would be banned in the flame forums because of it and prob me as well..

there was a comment made in the thread "ive been banned" (someone else link it im a lazy person) sayin

AAFitz


Posted: 10 Aug 2007 13:41 Post subject:

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this isnt a very difficult case to figure out here

a new policy of not using flame wars to flame anyone or anything other than the dice was posted.

xtra broke that

he was warned

he broke it again

he was banned

this has nothing to do with freedom of speach.... he can talk about it anywhere he wants in any town in any country, and lack will let him keep his account active

however, he doesnt want it in here, because its bad for business...it offends many of his customers, and was clearly a case of someone using derogatory remarks aimed at a specific race of people, ie racism ie completely inappropriate

the game is offered for free, or you can pay $20 bucks to buy lack a pizza while hes watching TV, instead of programming updates like he should be

but it in no way entitles anyone to post outside of the rules that have been set up for this club...many of which have been set up with the input of the members of the club

he had to be banned.... he broke the rules, he was going to continue to break the rules.... he may still break the rules after his banning...his choice

but this has nothing to do with censorship, only good business practices and really human decency

you can say anything about me personally, and the mods wont do anything except occasionally cheer you on, or join in, but if you make fun of the fact that my ancestors were "m*cks" that came here in droves and ruined the country...youll be warned and banned

(the bolded part) because it offends people? is that not why it says "flame wars, not for the easily offended" is because stuff is going to be said that will offend you? if you do not like it then stay out of it.. was this not the remark of many of the most frequent posters in the flame wars, if not the motto of flame wars?

so why the rule suddenly for flame wars, i never heard of it... why only ban nationality bashs.. why not sexist remarks, and homosexual bashing... why not all offensive words.. honestly its mostly because if you did that, your going to eliminate flame forums all together and then you will have it spill out onto games and other places..

so... i wanna know... why the no nationality bashing, and if it is to be continued to be upheld, then search the flame forums.. the mods have a lot of bans to hand out.. you do not wish to offend people, then ban the ones who do it outside of the flame forum or move it to the flame forum like you do any other arguement...

[dominationnation]

My opinion on this is that as long as it stays inside of the flame fourm I really dont care about it. When someone comes into the social lounge or GD or anyting really then it becomes a problem and bans should be given.

[codeblue1018]

AMEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[wicked]

Go read the guidelines. "Bigotry" is an umbrella term that covers all those things you mentioned. Yes we were lax about enforcing the guidelines in the past for flame wars, but when people started complaining, we started cracking down.

[eyeofdeath]

Honestly, i live in so cal....60% of my friends are mexican. a couple of them probably illegal....and beaner really isn't some really 'forbidden insult'

i mean, i'm not gunna run around screaming it....but there are PLENTY of worse things you could say.

[morph]

Go read the guidelines. "Bigotry" is an umbrella term that covers all those things you mentioned. Yes we were lax about enforcing the guidelines in the past for flame wars, but when people started complaining, we started cracking down.

These guidelines are just that – guidelines. The CC staff try to take a fairly hands off approach to moderation but will step in if you get abusive, trollish or really bloody annoying. These are simple requests, please heed them and play nice.


try to take a fairly hands off approach to moderation, but will step in if you get abusive.....

if you do not want to get abused do not enter the goddamn flame wars forum!!! i think that is a pertty safe call... wouldnt you wicked? hell most people were annoyed with rev talkin about screwin babies, but i never once heard it mentioned that he got in trouble for it with a mod...

if someone is trashing you with racism or foul language... and this is for those people who do not know what to do in the flame wars forum, you trash them right the hell back with foul language and if you feel like it racism... if you dont like a thread, stay out of it, if you dont like what a whole freakin forum is talkin about or how they talk about it, stay the hell out of it, is that not pretty much said by most CC vets around here?

most ccers pick up pretty quickly no one gives a damn about who says what, its their opinion, and if you dont like it all that much take it to the flame forums where you can call them whatever you wish.... abuse is what the flame forum was made and is made to dish out is it not?

[AAFitz]

Morph, to answer most of your questions:

xtra was warned because he had 7 threads or more devoted to the subject.

everytime he posted he mentioned the subject

He had his own personal agenda, and went too far pushing it.

You are correct that there have been other things said, and have been dealt with when raised. Countless people complained about xtra, so he was warned.

If someone else gets many complaints, the same may happen to them.

This is all common sense stuff here. He blatantly and publicly broke the rules, and got banned.

Your main concern seems to be that this was unfair, because it was only him that was banned...but in fact, many have been warned...those that heed the warning, dont get banned...those that dont do.

Xtra wasnt taken by surprise by this, he did it on purpose. He knew he'd be banned, and he carried on so that he could be banned to get publicity for his political message...or possibly just publicity itself...either way, he used racist terms to do it, and purposely demeaned an entire race of people who just happened to be born a few miles south of him...

defend it all you want... but no reasonable person cant see that he had to be banned, and not only deserved it, but asked for it almost specifically

[MeDeFe]

The flame wars are boring now that flaming is regulated, even the tasteless jokes thread was closed.

[Mardiggan]

I'm so terribly sorry that it's no fun to bash and moan, anymore.

Get a hobby.

RISK, maybe.

There is no excuse for bigotry, and no reason that bigots who feel the rest of us need to be slimed by their repulsive rhetoric occuring anywhere on this Site need to remain here. This is not the United States of America; it is an internet Website, and it is privately owned, and if the people who own it want to say, "no racial epithets," they have every right to do so. If they want to say, "you will be banned for using the word 'pink,'" they have every right to do that, too. If they want to say "you just joined, and you did nothing wrong; we're going to ban you," they have every right to do that, too.

It is the ultimate expression of freedom. They are free to run their Site the way they want to. If you don't like it, feel free to set up your own Website emblazoned with forums specifically dedicated to each individual racial epithet in existence (but be prepared for a lot of protesting, as that sort of uncivilized behavior is bound to offend people, which you would have every right to ban in turn... but who would in turn be within their rights to take their complaints elsewhere).

Anyone who intentionally, repeatedly flouts the rules simply to cause a fuss ought to be removed, regardless. And he was; I don't see the problem. He was warned, according to a number of staff members. Again, it is their Site. Anyone who's surprised by *BAN* after being repeatedly warned by the staff, is extremely stupid, and by all accounts he knew what was coming and was deliberately pushing the margin. Really, how dumb can someone be?

Back to the subject of casting racial epithets about because it's 'allowable' under the 1st Amendment, I want to thank each and every person to have slandered and despoiled that Amendment by abusing its right to say what you want for the purposes of casting wicked shame and filth in every direction. If it was legal to commit murder, I'm sure many people would be killing their fellow men right now; that doesn't make it right or acceptable. The 1st Amendment allows a freedom that ought to be used responsibly. "Because I can!" isn't justification for committing acts of repulsive offense for the fun of it (and I really don't see this 'fun' side).

[RiskTycoon]

personally I think the flame forums should be eliminated.....the cons out weigh the pros as far as I can see..... no need for it.....aren't there other forums out there that are made for that sort of thing...this is a family site as far as I am concerned and flame wars has no place in CC.....I just don't think it's a good image for CC. I wish Lack would just trash that whole forum all together and save us all the headache .... just my .02$

[hughey]

i don't know

[MeDeFe]

So, Mardiggan, is this the USA or is it not? On the one hand you say it isn't and then you drag in the 1st amendment. btw, I've heard lack is from Canada so, meh.

And it isn't just racial slurs, whether they are ironical or not. One or two threads were closed because of dead baby jokes I think. How do those fall under the category of bigotry?

[OnlyAmbrose]

Go read the guidelines. "Bigotry" is an umbrella term that covers all those things you mentioned. Yes we were lax about enforcing the guidelines in the past for flame wars, but when people started complaining, we started cracking down.

Please don't take this as a complaint. because it's not. I'm just pointing out that there are plenty of bigots here on CC who get away with it, but just aren't bigoted against Mexicans, and they get away with it just fine.

Examples?

pssssst.......guess what my avatar is peein' on? (oh yoooooohoooo......father bad-touch....... )

Just thought I'd bring the lovely nuns and padres I mentioned earlier up again......I notice you casually avoided mentioning them god-boy...

Western society is better than everyone else's and if you don't think so you're a troll.

usa - the self proclaimed saviors of modern world: (f*ck them!)

ANTI-AMERICAN PROPAGANDA:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t5ogMIxvmIM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XTgzrhzHEA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxfeX-YTLMk
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xkXyCz9YvQM

I should, by all means, be offended by all of these , save Mr. Mongler's, since I'm of Western culture. But none of them got banned. And furthermore, I don't WANT them banned. If people want to make bigots and a-holes of themselves, why stop them?

[khazalid]

the hidden answer to all the difficulties involved in this kind of hierarchy of insults is simply that racism is as pertinent and destructive as it ever was. it evokes a different feeling within the liberalised body politic, sentient enough to see it for what it is and to attribute it to a very real kind of suffering and malaise, all through the centuries to the present day.

[morph]

the hidden answer to all the difficulties involved in this kind of hierarchy of insults is simply that racism is as pertinent and destructive as it ever was. it evokes a different feeling within the liberalised body politic, sentient enough to see it for what it is and to attribute it to a very real kind of suffering and malaise, all through the centuries to the present day.

please the big words or words that i hardly ever see explain them, malaise.. wtf is that.. anyways (im by no means uneducated, but in general i try to use common words that most people know and understand)

i was never really fighting the reason he got banned, but i watched the anti american thread go on 5 pages, before i stopped even looking into it, 5 pages, if someone was warned you would think it would maybe stop at 2? but the same person who started the anti american thread started at least two other threads that were anti nationality threads... and i still dont think he was warned... they all went on beyond 5 pages for the thread...

he may have made the threads about "beaners" and may have mentioned it anytime he could but i do believe so did the person who started the anti american thread... yet nothing was said, but then again pretty much the whole flame wars forum jumped on the guy and started to argue and debate..

i think the biggest thing is that without the racism and bigatory, the flame forums would not have some of the most interesting debates, if you ignore people who just throw swares, you have many people who are always posting intelligent posts to throw in question on why that person thinks that way... by eliminating bigatory and such you should also cut away any thread that has to do with relgions as much bigatory comes from people of different religions, (and we all know there are many many threads dedicated to that debate in the club house, and now we even have the jesus freaks clan because of it.... jesus freaks clan should die... propaganda propaganda ^.^ )

the flame forums is to be for those who should be abused and ones who wish to abuse and get abused back, if you want it gone, hell there was a idea to limit it to people who only post over 100 times can see it...

if you dont want people to see the bigatory or the racist comments then your gonna have to get rid of so many people because there is usually always a comment made by someone, somewhere in the forums, it dosnt matter where it is, and usually its a friendly comment between two people who like each other in the forums... ive seen it several times myself..

the flame forums does that as well, people will call each other by racist names but when you read a full out insult toss between them its funny as hell because in the next thread they are both bashing someone else...

i dont think it should be un modded, but i think that getting in trouble for being abusive in the flame forums is oxymoronic at best... if everyone would get in trouble for being overly abusive, hell Ron(you spell the rest of his name, cuz anyone who has been into the flame forums knows who i speak of) would be long gone by now... he tends to be the person most well known for throwing abuse around, but its just a bunch of words to most people, he tends to throw homosexual comments at you, pretty much callin you a gay and then sexually offering to do you up the ass since you like it so much... but people dont care because like i said he throws all those words together, the most insulting things come from people who sit there and do it intelligently, but the only diff is that people dont consider it abusive because the worlds seem more politically correct...

so what if i wish to be crude or rude when i go to bash someone in the flame forums, that is what it is there for... so while im being crude and rude ill be a bigot if i wish to since some people scream a sterotype, its a insult only cuz you view it as one, most people know its not what that race or religion is actually like so its closer to making fun of a history of stupid preconceptions on what is politically right...

o dont say beaner, you might upset the illegals that are in the country... and i honestly only say that cuz ive never really seen beaner being used against any person of mexican decent that is a legal us citizen..
dont say the N word... that will upset the blacks, o no dont call them blacks because they are really african americans.... o and btw they demand money for having their forefathers brought over here and then made into slaves, even though for a few decades their race has been free in america and have been able to persue a better life then lets say we left them in africa where they likely would have been killed or brought to a diff country where they are still praciting slavery (or kept in africa as slaves by their own people)

call me a cracker i dont give a shit, im white, im a geek... whats your point? hell my father calls white people Niggers, and he looked at me and said "to me a nigger is unintelligent and ignorant person" so why should i give a damn about callin someone a nigger? i could care less about a skin color or background in liniage... ill call illegal immigrants of all countrys beaners if i have to...

racism will only continue if you make sure the words that are used are only used in a racist way, dont pick a race when calling someone a nigger, dont pick a race when you call illegal immigrants beaners.. you stop making them sound so bad and they might stop being used that way... a cracker is a unhip, techno freak who lives in his parents basement and when he is outside in the light and in a crowd he tries to act like he is cool.... (course there are many diff ways and reasons why people get called a cracker)



and if you really have a prob with the flame forums, then try to get lack to make it a clan only forum, anyone who wishs to par take in the flame forums should join the clan, though the clan might never take part in the clan wars on CC cuz gods only know that if they did well... no game chat would be quite like hendy and ron teaming up and calling each other names while sayin they are the flame forum kings....

(if you imagine that, its actually kinda funny)

[RiskTycoon]

don't post in the forums after 1 chocolate porter and 7 martinis ...... you tend to not make any sense ..... ......that is why i edited this...just ignore this one....

[RiskTycoon]

....and this one

[hulmey]

Was actually talking to a view people about this and they said CC is a joke... No just for denying us the term "beaner" in a Flame wars forum but also for banning Xtra.

Forums are there to have discusions and xtra was never rude or abusive as are most of the people un the forums. So what if Xtra has another agenda or motive becuase the fact of the matter is that "beaners" are fucking criminals. They are and i will repeat this slowly i-l-l-e-a-g-a-l immigrants invading my soverign country illeagally.

My now adopted county Malta is suffering huge amounts of illegals htting our shores everyday trying to get into the EU and its fucking hitting the tax payer hard. I pay 35 % tax and these people are erroding my standard of living. I do sympathise with them but there is a line!!!

[OnlyAmbrose]

racism is as pertinent and destructive as it ever was.

You're telling me. I'm white and I have to pay to go to college.

[Kayla]

xtra talks about a fact, but yet another person just got away with saying he was going to f*ck my kids face. (my kid is 14 months old)

[Stopper]

call me a cracker i dont give a shit, im white, im a geek... whats your point? hell my father calls white people Niggers, and he looked at me and said "to me a nigger is unintelligent and ignorant person" so why should i give a damn about callin someone a nigger? i could care less about a skin color or background in liniage... ill call illegal immigrants of all countrys beaners if i have to...

I'm not convinced you fully understood your father's meaning when he said that to you. He wasn't wearing a hooded white gown and holding a burning crucifix when he said that to you, was he?

[oVo]

There is nothing to debate on this subject because this site has already determined, declared and taken action with regards to how racism/hate speech will be handled. Anyone who has an unbridled desire to publicly revel in their own ignorance can do it elsewhere.

I don't care what you did in banned camp last summer.