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CoffeeCream wrote:1. God is omniscient. Ok if that's true then why did he create Satan knowing that he would one day rebel? Doesn't that mean that God indirectly created evil? Then how could He be considered a good God. Also why did he allow for man to eat the apple? That seems a little cruel to me - sort of like teasing a child into doing something that's bad for them.
CoffeeCream wrote:2. If God is all powerful then why doesn't he just show himself to everyone? Either that or perform some miracle which would prove to everyone once and for all that he is actually interested in us. I think he exists by the way, but Christians tell us that he loves us. Why doesn't he get involved in all the wars here and put an end to them all? I don't think anyone can prove that this supreme being is really directly interested in our affairs.
CoffeeCream wrote:3. Since Christians believe in free will, then why do they constantly want to legislate morality? Shouldn't people be free to do pretty much what they want as long as it conforms to the law or aren't killing anyone?
CoffeeCream wrote:4. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like that someone can live the absolute worst life but then 'accept' Jesus (whatever that means) and still go to heaven (wherever that is). On the flip side, someone can live the absolute best life but not 'accept' Jesus and still go to hell. Huh!!! Oh yeah, and how can a loving God send someone to hell in the first place?
Chariot of Fire wrote:As for GreecePwns.....yeah, what? A massive debt. Get a job you slacker.
Viceroy wrote:[The Biblical creation story] was written in a time when there was no way to confirm this fact and is in fact a statement of the facts.
GreecePwns wrote:Well put magneticgoop. I would have said similar things.
God wants everyone to go to heaven and all it takes is a genuine faith to enter. Jesus sacrificed himself so everyone could go th heaven and all he asks for is faith, if you can not give that small token of recognition, you can not enter. Also God is not unjust for sending people to hell as he gave them a whole life time to have faith in him.
frogger4 wrote:Has anyone ever thought of the concept that parts of the Bible might actually be symbolic, rather than absolute fact? You may believe what you like, but perhaps look at things logically. If you trace the genealogy in the bible back to Adam and Eve, the earth apparently is about 5 thousand to 6 thousand years old. Using science (Carbon-14 dating and other radioactive materials), it has been concluded that the earth is considerably older than a few thousand years, closer to 4.5 billion years, if that is what you choose to believe. Using that as just one example, the Adam and Eve story was probably not completely factual, more symbolic of lessons that people wanted to get across.
frogger4 wrote:Evolution: The theory is that when cells reproduce, all of their DNA must be copied and transferred to the daughter cell. On occasion, there is a slight error when the DNA gets copied, referred to as a mutation. Most of the time, when a mutation occurs, the cell will die because it will not be able to function properly without that exact DNA. Very rarely though, that mutation actually helps the cell in one way or another (as a broad example, wouldn't it sometimes be helpful to have a third hand?). When this mutation is actually beneficial and the mutant lives to reproduce, a new species is born. I won't go into Darwinism because someone else probably knows more than I on that subject.
Just a joke, evolution is just a theory just like how gravity is just a theory.
note: I actually am a Christian, I just happen to have fairly liberal views.
BOLD:i meant comparatively speaking, it is not easy to believe but is a whole lot easier than being punished for everyones sins that you did not commit. Also God would love to have you follow him for your entire life but he does not require it because he knows that people will fall away but he still accepted them into heaven and he will not go back on his word to allow them in.Titanic wrote:God wants everyone to go to heaven and all it takes is a genuine faith to enter. Jesus sacrificed himself so everyone could go th heaven and all he asks for is faith, if you can not give that small token of recognition, you can not enter. Also God is not unjust for sending people to hell as he gave them a whole life time to have faith in him.
Well, I dont think Jesus's sacrifice worked. More people are not religious now then probably ever before. Also, its not a small token of recognition, its a lifetime of devotion to a religion, which takes a lot of work and effort and time.
Also, a question to those who believe in Heaven and hell, what happens to a baby which dies when it is a matter of days or weeks or even hours old? Surely it cannot be judged to be good or evil because it has not had the time to prove itself either way.
Finally, I'll just like to say I do not belive in Christianity or any of the Abrahamic religion at all, because they are just stories which were passed around imo. Look up the god Mithras, his story is scarily similar to Jesus's , and so are many others. I do not beleive in Heaven and Hell because I just dont think you can split the world into good people and bad people. People have parts of both, and if this was so heaven would have many people who have bad parts to them, and hell will have a lot of people who can be very kinf and forgiving.
Titanic wrote:Is gravity still classed as a theory?
magneticgoop wrote:BOLD:i meant comparatively speaking, it is not easy to believe but is a whole lot easier than being punished for everyones sins that you did not commit. Also God would love to have you follow him for your entire life but he does not require it because he knows that people will fall away but he still accepted them into heaven and he will not go back on his word to allow them in.Titanic wrote:God wants everyone to go to heaven and all it takes is a genuine faith to enter. Jesus sacrificed himself so everyone could go th heaven and all he asks for is faith, if you can not give that small token of recognition, you can not enter. Also God is not unjust for sending people to hell as he gave them a whole life time to have faith in him.
Well, I dont think Jesus's sacrifice worked. More people are not religious now then probably ever before. Also, its not a small token of recognition, its a lifetime of devotion to a religion, which takes a lot of work and effort and time.
Also, a question to those who believe in Heaven and hell, what happens to a baby which dies when it is a matter of days or weeks or even hours old? Surely it cannot be judged to be good or evil because it has not had the time to prove itself either way.
Finally, I'll just like to say I do not belive in Christianity or any of the Abrahamic religion at all, because they are just stories which were passed around imo. Look up the god Mithras, his story is scarily similar to Jesus's , and so are many others. I do not beleive in Heaven and Hell because I just dont think you can split the world into good people and bad people. People have parts of both, and if this was so heaven would have many people who have bad parts to them, and hell will have a lot of people who can be very kinf and forgiving.
they go to heaven as they were not old enough to recognized that they have sinned, and therefore could not accept and believe the message of Christ
frogger4 wrote:Has anyone ever thought of the concept that parts of the Bible might actually be symbolic, rather than absolute fact?
go to Creation vs. evolution threadfrogger4 wrote: You may believe what you like, but perhaps look at things logically. If you trace the genealogy in the bible back to Adam and Eve, the earth apparently is about 5 thousand to 6 thousand years old. Using science (Carbon-14 dating and other radioactive materials), it has been concluded that the earth is considerably older than a few thousand years, closer to 4.5 billion years, if that is what you choose to believe. Using that as just one example, the Adam and Eve story was probably not completely factual, more symbolic of lessons that people wanted to get across.
Evolution: The theory is that when cells reproduce, all of their DNA must be copied and transferred to the daughter cell. On occasion, there is a slight error when the DNA gets copied, referred to as a mutation. Most of the time, when a mutation occurs, the cell will die because it will not be able to function properly without that exact DNA. Very rarely though, that mutation actually helps the cell in one way or another (as a broad example, wouldn't it sometimes be helpful to have a third hand?). When this mutation is actually beneficial and the mutant lives to reproduce, a new species is born. I won't go into Darwinism because someone else probably knows more than I on that subject.
Just a joke, evolution is just a theory just like how gravity is just a theory.
note: I actually am a Christian, I just happen to have fairly liberal views.
CoffeeCream wrote:1. God is omniscient. Ok if that's true then why did he create Satan knowing that he would one day rebel? Doesn't that mean that God indirectly created evil? Then how could He be considered a good God. Also why did he allow for man to eat the apple? That seems a little cruel to me - sort of like teasing a child into doing something that's bad for them.
CoffeeCream wrote:2. If God is all powerful then why doesn't he just show himself to everyone? Either that or perform some miracle which would prove to everyone once and for all that he is actually interested in us. I think he exists by the way, but Christians tell us that he loves us. Why doesn't he get involved in all the wars here and put an end to them all? I don't think anyone can prove that this supreme being is really directly interested in our affairs.
CoffeeCream wrote:3. Since Christians believe in free will, then why do they constantly want to legislate morality? Shouldn't people be free to do pretty much what they want as long as it conforms to the law or aren't killing anyone?
CoffeeCream wrote:4. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like that someone can live the absolute worst life but then 'accept' Jesus (whatever that means) and still go to heaven (wherever that is). On the flip side, someone can live the absolute best life but not 'accept' Jesus and still go to hell. Huh!!! Oh yeah, and how can a loving God send someone to hell in the first place?
Titanic wrote:
Also, a question to those who believe in Heaven and hell, what happens to a baby which dies when it is a matter of days or weeks or even hours old? Surely it cannot be judged to be good or evil because it has not had the time to prove itself either way.
frogger4 wrote:Has anyone ever thought of the concept that parts of the Bible might actually be symbolic, rather than absolute fact? You may believe what you like, but perhaps look at things logically. If you trace the genealogy in the bible back to Adam and Eve, the earth apparently is about 5 thousand to 6 thousand years old. Using science (Carbon-14 dating and other radioactive materials), it has been concluded that the earth is considerably older than a few thousand years, closer to 4.5 billion years, if that is what you choose to believe. Using that as just one example, the Adam and Eve story was probably not completely factual, more symbolic of lessons that people wanted to get across.
i see you points here and i have already stated my views but the god you are speaking of is not the all knowing, all powerful God of Christianity and therefore is obviously wrong in my opinonstatic_ice wrote:I am not in the JF and I do not attribute my views to general christianity; basically don't take my answer as "THE" christian answer. Naturally, in spite of this, I have some things I disagree with magneticgoop over.CoffeeCream wrote:1. God is omniscient. Ok if that's true then why did he create Satan knowing that he would one day rebel? Doesn't that mean that God indirectly created evil? Then how could He be considered a good God. Also why did he allow for man to eat the apple? That seems a little cruel to me - sort of like teasing a child into doing something that's bad for them.
first of all MG I have to disagree, I think everything God does is based in logically and humans have the capacity to comprehend it.
Now Coffee Cream, He didn't know Satan would rebel, he can't see the future. God gave angels free will too. And he didn't create evil, good and evil had existed even before him, he just had the plan to ignore it. Because of this he didn't "allow" man to eat the apple. You see the apple is a symbol for the worst sin out there, adultery. So God didn't "allow" them to have sex, they had the organs from the start and all he could do was warn them not to use them until they were ready. And adam and ever were not full grown adults, actually they were around 16-20. Its sad because they only needed to wait a few years until they were mature enough.CoffeeCream wrote:2. If God is all powerful then why doesn't he just show himself to everyone? Either that or perform some miracle which would prove to everyone once and for all that he is actually interested in us. I think he exists by the way, but Christians tell us that he loves us. Why doesn't he get involved in all the wars here and put an end to them all? I don't think anyone can prove that this supreme being is really directly interested in our affairs.
God is no longer all powerful, his power is limited as the world has been consumed by sin and majority-ruled by Satan. He wishes he could help us and clear all of our problems but he can't.CoffeeCream wrote:3. Since Christians believe in free will, then why do they constantly want to legislate morality? Shouldn't people be free to do pretty much what they want as long as it conforms to the law or aren't killing anyone?
Yes many christians have it the wrong way, no one can be forced to "do good" they have to make the decision themselves. Christians are on the right track but don't have it exact.CoffeeCream wrote:4. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like that someone can live the absolute worst life but then 'accept' Jesus (whatever that means) and still go to heaven (wherever that is). On the flip side, someone can live the absolute best life but not 'accept' Jesus and still go to hell. Huh!!! Oh yeah, and how can a loving God send someone to hell in the first place?
Yes the first part is possible because not everyone knows about God from birth, and they sin in ignorance. The second part is not possible, I think you can still go to heaven without knowledge of God. (though not accepting him is a sketchy subject for me...)
and God doesn't "send" people to hell, he wants to "bring" as many people as he can to heaven. But he is not allowed to bring people that Satan has a decent grasp on. When someone goes to Hell, they aren't pushed, they are pulled.
Again, in the above post, when I say confirming words like "this is" or "this isn't" I don't mean to dismiss all of the previous talk I'm just too lazy to put "I believe" in front of every sentence
magneticgoop wrote:i see you points here and i have already stated my views but the god you are speaking of is not the all knowing, all powerful God of Christianity and therefore is obviously wrong in my opinon
the difference between my opinion and yours is mine is rightstatic_ice wrote:magneticgoop wrote:i see you points here and i have already stated my views but the god you are speaking of is not the all knowing, all powerful God of Christianity and therefore is obviously wrong in my opinon
well in my opinion, the all powerful God of Christianity is wrong
magneticgoop wrote:the difference between my opinion and yours is mine is rightstatic_ice wrote:magneticgoop wrote:i see you points here and i have already stated my views but the god you are speaking of is not the all knowing, all powerful God of Christianity and therefore is obviously wrong in my opinon
well in my opinion, the all powerful God of Christianity is wrong
i know but back on topic is coffee around i want to hear his responsestatic_ice wrote:magneticgoop wrote:the difference between my opinion and yours is mine is rightstatic_ice wrote:magneticgoop wrote:i see you points here and i have already stated my views but the god you are speaking of is not the all knowing, all powerful God of Christianity and therefore is obviously wrong in my opinon
well in my opinion, the all powerful God of Christianity is wrong
you're a great debater
CoffeeCream wrote:Nature just magically selected certain species to survive and thrive? No way! There's too many holes in the theories and nobody's been able to prove it. The people who believe in it are welcome to it, but they've been given enough time to produce the evidence and they never are able to. There's too much complexity and design in the world for me to deny that there is some type of supreme being or higher power.
CoffeeCream wrote:1. God is omniscient. Ok if that's true then why did he create Satan knowing that he would one day rebel? Doesn't that mean that God indirectly created evil? Then how could He be considered a good God. Also why did he allow for man to eat the apple? That seems a little cruel to me - sort of like teasing a child into doing something that's bad for them.
CoffeeCream wrote:2. If God is all powerful then why doesn't he just show himself to everyone? Either that or perform some miracle which would prove to everyone once and for all that he is actually interested in us. I think he exists by the way, but Christians tell us that he loves us. Why doesn't he get involved in all the wars here and put an end to them all? I don't think anyone can prove that this supreme being is really directly interested in our affairs.
CoffeeCream wrote:3. Since Christians believe in free will, then why do they constantly want to legislate morality? Shouldn't people be free to do pretty much what they want as long as it conforms to the law or aren't killing anyone?
CoffeeCream wrote:4. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like that someone can live the absolute worst life but then 'accept' Jesus (whatever that means) and still go to heaven (wherever that is). On the flip side, someone can live the absolute best life but not 'accept' Jesus and still go to hell. Huh!!! Oh yeah, and how can a loving God send someone to hell in the first place?
CoffeeCream wrote:My position is that there is some type of God or supreme being but it's impossible to personally know him as he stopped caring about us or is apathetic.
CoffeeCream wrote:1. God is omniscient. Ok if that's true then why did he create Satan knowing that he would one day rebel? Doesn't that mean that God indirectly created evil? Then how could He be considered a good God. Also why did he allow for man to eat the apple? That seems a little cruel to me - sort of like teasing a child into doing something that's bad for them.
2. If God is all powerful then why doesn't he just show himself to everyone? Either that or perform some miracle which would prove to everyone once and for all that he is actually interested in us. I think he exists by the way, but Christians tell us that he loves us. Why doesn't he get involved in all the wars here and put an end to them all? I don't think anyone can prove that this supreme being is really directly interested in our affairs.
3. Since Christians believe in free will, then why do they constantly want to legislate morality? Shouldn't people be free to do pretty much what they want as long as it conforms to the law or aren't killing anyone?
4. From what I'm reading on here it sounds like that someone can live the absolute worst life but then 'accept' Jesus (whatever that means) and still go to heaven (wherever that is). On the flip side, someone can live the absolute best life but not 'accept' Jesus and still go to hell. Huh!!! Oh yeah, and how can a loving God send someone to hell in the first place?
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.
magneticgoop wrote:First we must recognize that God is unlike humans in thinking, knowledge, and power and we can not understand everything he does, therefore there is no way of knowing why God would create anything.
When God created Adam and Eve and both sinned they released evil into the world, but sin is not a creation it is a byproduct of disobedience to God. Perhaps the Tree of the Knowledge of Good and Evil had a purpose that is not revealed. The Tree may have been for Adam and Eve when God said it was alright to eat the Fruit, but not until a later date. It may have been similar to a parent saying to their children "You can't have a cookie until i say it is OK," the kid will not understand why, but the parent has a purpose behind the restriction. You also must recognize the fact that
Adam and Eve were both grown Adults who have the will power to resist the temptation of eating the Fruit, unlike a child.
magneticgoop wrote:God has preformed miracles; the Bible is filled with them, and he did come for about 32 years as the man Jesus. Also God wants us to believe because we have faith and trust, not because he bribes us by preforming miracles on a regular basis.
magneticgoop wrote:The reason that God does not end wars, crime, disease and evil is because he gave Humans a unique gift: the gift of free will. God could easily be a controlling dictator but he wants us to learn from our mistakes and learn to love each other by our own free will, not because he forces us like mindless robots.
magneticgoop wrote:God wants everyone to go to heaven and all it takes is a genuine faith to enter. Jesus sacrificed himself so everyone could go th heaven and all he asks for is faith, if you can not give that small token of recognition, you can not enter. Also God is not unjust for sending people to hell as he gave them a whole life time to have faith in him.
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