Does Socialism hurt more people than it helps?

[Der Fuhrer]

Yeah the earth is a living thing. There are prescriptions for people with delusional fantasies such as yourself. How old does the earth have to be before we allow it to go out on a date? Maybe we can set up a courtship between earth and Saturn! Should we allow the earth to drive? Perhaps we should give it an allowance! Do you also feel sad when buildings fall down? Maybe we're hurting their feelings.

Good one. The earth doesn't have to be a living thing for us to destroy it.

Sounds like you and radiojake have a lot to talk about. There's a rape therapy group you two can join if you truly care about the earth. As far as insults go, just ask rj about his brave adventures from behind his computer screen as he insulted PhatJoey's son.

OH NOES YOU INSULTED SOMEONE SO I WILL NEVAH LISTENN TO U AGAIN!~!
Solid reasoning there, dude.

This keeps getting better and better. Yeah, take more money out of the economy in the hopes that it will help the economy. Let the stupid agencies take that money for themselves under the guise of "operating costs" instead of actually letting the people who need it receive it. All the while, pitting one group of citizens against the other in the name of fairness.

Yes because surely the fact that the USA spends more money per capita on healthcare than any other nation in the world, despite having 47 million people without healthinsurance is a fine example of a good system. People who know about it agree with you (not really)

If the U.S. health care system is so bad then why do people keep coming here to get operations?

Because along with having some of the worst coverage, you also have some of the best treatments for rare diseases. Which cost a lot of money for those people, but hey, otherwise they're dead. However, leaving 47 million people to die for that doesn't really sound like a good thing, particularly when they needn't be that way.

The rich aren't paying their fair share. WWWAAAAAHHHHH

Universal healtcare would probably cost less.

Socialists do it all the time when attacking capitalism. Ooopps, guess you forgot to criticize them.

What are you talking about?

Then you have a problem with the sources and agencies I cited.

Naturally, as you seem to have no idea what socialism means.

Like a broken record you did exactly like I thought. Instead of actually trying to construct your own reasoning to support your position you simply declare that mine isn't correct. I'll say it again - why would anyone try to present you with information that you would automatically dismiss just because you don't like it.

Oh yes, very helpfull in defending your position. He called you on not using your reasoning but instead insulting others, and then you respond by insulting it.

I like how you went from being so firm of your position and now say it's probable and virtually. And now to add to the hilarity you're saying that it's going into the water supply BUT that it's making its way to our beef supply.

You can't possibly be this stupid. What do you think cows drink????

I'm so sure that corporations are going to continue to produce things which would poison potential customers. Once again, you're an idiot.

I'm sure of it, because it's slow poisoning. Or are you saying that tabacco-companies don't exist?

Universal healtcare would probably cost less.

f*ck, but you are a moron.

[Snorri1234]

f*ck, but you are a moron.

NO U R!

If you actually read about it, dickweed, you'd see that the USA spends more money than every other country in the world on heathcare.
Per capita too!

So all those countries with universal healthcare pay less for it per capita.

[Der Fuhrer]

f*ck, but you are a moron.

NO U R!

If you actually read about it, dickweed, you'd see that the USA spends more money than every other country in the world on heathcare.
Per capita too!

So all those countries with universal healthcare pay less for it per capita.

Fucking moron.

[Snorri1234]

f*ck, but you are a moron.

NO U R!

If you actually read about it, dickweed, you'd see that the USA spends more money than every other country in the world on heathcare.
Per capita too!

So all those countries with universal healthcare pay less for it per capita.

Fucking moron.

I don't get it. What the f*ck does the amount of taxes we pay have to do with healthcare?

Oh I see. You think that they haven't taken into account how many taxes everyone pays. Good one, but really I have.
But anyway, the USA also spends the highest amount of it's GDP on healthcare. As in: The US spends about 15% of it's GDP on healthcare atm. The highest amount in the world.

Can't you get it into your fragile little mind that THEY JUST PAY MORE MONEY!

[Der Fuhrer]

f*ck, but you are a moron.

NO U R!

If you actually read about it, dickweed, you'd see that the USA spends more money than every other country in the world on heathcare.
Per capita too!

So all those countries with universal healthcare pay less for it per capita.

Fucking moron.

I don't get it. What the f*ck does the amount of taxes we pay have to do with healthcare?

Oh I see. You think that they haven't taken into account how many taxes everyone pays. Good one, but really I have.
But anyway, the USA also spends the highest amount of it's GDP on healthcare. As in: The US spends about 15% of it's GDP on healthcare atm. The highest amount in the world.

Can't you get it into your fragile little mind that THEY JUST PAY MORE MONEY!

I see. So, you are counting both the tax dollars and the private costs involved yes? Only Americans would be dumb enough to pay twice for their healthcare. Oh yes, this would explain why you believe you are paying more dollars per capita. That is comparing apples and oranges... or morons and intellectuals.

[Snorri1234]

I see. So, you are counting both the tax dollars and the private costs involved yes? Only Americans would be dumb enough to pay twice for their healthcare. Oh yes, this would explain why you believe you are paying more dollars per capita. That is comparing apples and oranges... or morons and intellectuals.

You can't be this stupid. OFCOURSE I'M FUCKING COUNTING BOTH THE MONEY THEY PAY IN TAXES AND PRIVATE TOGETHER!

The point is, the healthcaresystem of the USA is very inefficient. Due to the fact that there are people who do not have healthinsurance and therefore only go to the doctor when they're dying, the costs of care are higher than other places. And these costs are taken out by insurance-companies on those who do have insurance. So you're paying for the people who don't have insurance anyway, but you're also paying more for them! It's a win-win situation!
Couple that with the fact that the administrative part of all this is frightingly huge because there are so many, many different insurance-companies and they keep a very close eye on their clients. (The insurers for example who don't cover everything or only part of some things.) The current system in the US is bleeding, it needs not just a little mending but a complete overhaul.

The fun thing is, I don't even have to resort to arguments about how denying 16% of your country basic care is fucking INHUMANE!

[bradleybadly]

bradley, i suppose it seems to be worth questioning. What exactly are your gripes with socialism, especially as someone who does not live in such a country. Seemingly we have heard your obejctions to people who argue against you, but have heard surprisingly little about your actual objections.

Ya got me. It is true that I don't like socialism. What I've seen here since I've joined are socialist or socialist sympathizers calling names. So I thought it would be fun to just illustrate how stupid they are by starting this thread. I was right about all my presumptions about them. I'm guessing you would also say your at least sympathetic towards socialist views. Do I actually think that the people here are assholes? No I don't. I just wanted to illustrate that they can dish it out but can't take it. They have to come to each others rescue and reinforce crazy ideas like the earth is alive or we could all die from poinsonous biscuit packaging. Think about it tonka.

I used a lot of name calling to make my point and what I thought came true. They don't see any hypocrisy in telling me that I shouldn't do any character assassination but when they do it, well then it's perfectly justified. Another point - I used some sources from the annual freedom economic report and listed some facts from them. Instead of at least considering the points they launched into some idiotic discussion of how to define a country or how it was really democracy or dictatorships that caused the poverty. Once again proving my point. They don't care about anything that doesn't conform to their idea that socialism is wonderful.

Yes I focused more on the people than their actual arguments because I knew that no matter what information I would present it would not be considered. I set out to accomplish showing them for who they really are and I've done that.

I am a mailroom supervisor at my job. I've never attended college. Yet I can make $24/hour and my wife can make even more money than me as a nurse. We have a daughter and want her to grow up in a world where she can actually use her brain and not just be spoon-fed the stupidity that goes along with socialism. Making money is awesome and being a dependent of the welfare system and crying about being a victim sucks.

[bradleybadly]

Just wanted to show you an example of the arrogance I see from people who are socialist inclined. Hillary Clinton just thinks she is such a wonderful person who is going to give us the gifts of universal health care and alternative energy. She isn't going to give us a single thing because in order to do those things she will have to raise taxes.

Hillary Clinton ad

It is insulting for people like her to look down on the rest of us as little children just waiting to receive government goodies. By the way did you see one of her lies in the video? Middle Class Tax Breaks - yeah her husband said the same thing when he ran for president and then took it back claiming the deficit was too big. These people lie to us tonka but of course it's all for our own good because they know what's best for us.

[Snorri1234]

Ya got me. It is true that I don't like socialism. What I've seen here since I've joined are socialist or socialist sympathizers calling names. So I thought it would be fun to just illustrate how stupid they are by starting this thread. I was right about all my presumptions about them. I'm guessing you would also say your at least sympathetic towards socialist views. Do I actually think that the people here are assholes? No I don't. I just wanted to illustrate that they can dish it out but can't take it.

Wow you "proved" we're can't take an insult by insulting us without actually giving us something to debate.
Nice one there.

They have to come to each others rescue and reinforce crazy ideas like the earth is alive or we could all die from poinsonous biscuit packaging. Think about it tonka.

Twisting what was said to something you can disagree with doesn't make it true.

I used a lot of name calling to make my point and what I thought came true. They don't see any hypocrisy in telling me that I shouldn't do any character assassination but when they do it, well then it's perfectly justified.

You didn't use a lot of name calling to make your point. You used a lot of name calling without bringing up a point!
I don't see a problem in telling you that you shouldn't insult people because I never insulted other people here. Just because you have one example from somewhere where we didn't jump on it like a pack of wild rabbits because it was one fucking line in a huge thread and then apply it to each and every one of us doesn't make you better, it makes you stupid.

Another point - I used some sources from the annual freedom economic report and listed some facts from them. Instead of at least considering the points they launched into some idiotic discussion of how to define a country or how it was really democracy or dictatorships that caused the poverty. Once again proving my point. They don't care about anything that doesn't conform to their idea that socialism is wonderful.

What points? One fucking list which you supplied without giving us an analysis of it does not make an argument.
So it proves that purely socialist states with a dictorial government don't work. WELL WOOFUCKINGHOO! That really wasn't obvious to us stalin-lovers.

Yes I focused more on the people than their actual arguments because I knew that no matter what information I would present it would not be considered. I set out to accomplish showing them for who they really are and I've done that.

You've done no such thing. You see, when you start a thread just to insult others, feeling justified when they insult you really, really isn't the correct response.
If you want to so desperately prove your ideas on socialism, start a civil debate.

I think you have this misguided idea about any socialist policy being a slippery slope towards communist russia stuff. That reminds me of the people who try to argue that gay-marriage is a slippery slope.

[bradleybadly]

Thank you once again snorri. It just furthers my point that you guys can't do anything other than criticize.

[Snorri1234]

Thank you once again snorri. It just furthers my point that you guys can't do anything other than criticize.

Stop being a little pussy and come with your convincing arguments already! This is nothing but a cheap cop-out because you know you're in the wrong but just don't want to admit it.

Go ahead flame me. It's not like I can't take it. But you seem to think it is because I fucking retaliate! Wtf? Ofcourse I retaliate, you're calling me stupid and a hypocrite. PhatJoey didn't back out of the conversation when his son was insulted, he just argued back against RJ. But nooooo, when we argue back it's because we're hypocrites and stalin-fondlers.

Criticize? CRITICIZE? Do you even know why we criticize you? It's not because you're wrong in your views on stuff. It's because you fucking refuse to debate them and instead act like you're somehow the better person here. I wish there was something to praise about you or agree with, but really, you're like all the wrong things rolled into on neat package.

[Snorri1234]

Also, your next post will be probably this:

HAHA! I R TEH SMARTZ AND U R STUPIDS!!!12 U CRITIZIRE MY BELIEFS BECAUSE I R TEH SMARTZ!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

So you don't have to respond.

[bradleybadly]

Mommy, the capitalists are raping the earth!!

[Snorri1234]

Mommy, the capitalists are raping the earth!!

Wow I must be psychic.

[suggs]

First of all, we need to examine a country/ state/ political system that is socialist.
There hasn't been one yet.
Next.

[Moghul]

Snorri1234, have you considered offering bradleybadly your avatar as a kind of reconciliation? I think it would fit him well.

Come to think of it - I need an avatar of my own!

[unriggable]

I've never attended college.

That's why you don't like socialism...

See, under a socialist gov't like in Western Europe, college is paid for by the state. Under a libertarian government, you probably wouldn't have enough money to make it through high school.

[unriggable]

Thank you once again snorri. It just furthers my point that you guys can't do anything other than criticize.

Reread your first post please.

[radiojake]

They don't care about anything that doesn't conform to their idea that socialism is wonderful.

Who actually said socialism is wonderful?

[ignotus]

They don't care about anything that doesn't conform to their idea that socialism is wonderful.

Who actually said socialism is wonderful?

Karl Marx!

[unriggable]

They don't care about anything that doesn't conform to their idea that socialism is wonderful.

Who actually said socialism is wonderful?

Karl Marx!

I thought he said it was inevitable.

[Napoleon Ier]

They don't care about anything that doesn't conform to their idea that socialism is wonderful.

Who actually said socialism is wonderful?

Karl Marx!

I thought he said it was inevitable.

There's a lt of things you can say about Marx.

One thing you must always remember about him however, is that he is wrong.

[got tonkaed]

there were defintintly some things that marx was wrong about, but to claim that above all he is wrong, is of no more value and is no more correct than saying any thinker of his era was wrong as well.

[unriggable]

They don't care about anything that doesn't conform to their idea that socialism is wonderful.

Who actually said socialism is wonderful?

Karl Marx!

I thought he said it was inevitable.

There's a lt of things you can say about Marx.

One thing you must always remember about him however, is that he is wrong.

Not at all, in fact what he wrote about the present is entirely true, his vision of the future is just 'weird'.

[Der Fuhrer]

I see. So, you are counting both the tax dollars and the private costs involved yes? Only Americans would be dumb enough to pay twice for their healthcare. Oh yes, this would explain why you believe you are paying more dollars per capita. That is comparing apples and oranges... or morons and intellectuals.

You can't be this stupid. OFCOURSE I'M FUCKING COUNTING BOTH THE MONEY THEY PAY IN TAXES AND PRIVATE TOGETHER!

The point is, the healthcaresystem of the USA is very inefficient. Due to the fact that there are people who do not have healthinsurance and therefore only go to the doctor when they're dying, the costs of care are higher than other places. And these costs are taken out by insurance-companies on those who do have insurance. So you're paying for the people who don't have insurance anyway, but you're also paying more for them! It's a win-win situation!
Couple that with the fact that the administrative part of all this is frightingly huge because there are so many, many different insurance-companies and they keep a very close eye on their clients. (The insurers for example who don't cover everything or only part of some things.) The current system in the US is bleeding, it needs not just a little mending but a complete overhaul.

The fun thing is, I don't even have to resort to arguments about how denying 16% of your country basic care is fucking INHUMANE!

How the f*ck are you denying health care to 16% of your country, when everyone pays taxes for their healthcare? Let me see if you quite understand the simplest of points I am attempting to make.

As for counting both taxes and private payments, how is this stupid? Yours is the only country that does it, therefore it should not be counted. How can you compare your costs with another country when that country's taxes only, pay for the same? Are you truly this dumb? Surely no one can be this dumb no? The added cost of private care is your choice, therefore it cannot count. All other costs are foisted upon the citizen of a nation. Argh, I abhor retardation, and it seems to be rampant in the USA.