Holy Wars - The Crusades - 13th Century

[CHAMPOS]

let the games commence - any comments welcome...

catholics 5 armies
islamic 5 armies
orthodox 3 armies
mongol 3 armies
pagan 3 armies
jewish communities 3 armies (countries marked with star of david)
all these religions were battling it out in europe in the 13th Century

the crusades
if you own at least one of the above religions then you get an additional army bonus of 3 armies for holding Holy Lands

note - the carpathian mountains are impassable.

[onbekende]

Make your bonus for pink +1

[gavin_sidhu]

Nice image. So if you own pink you get +4 or +8? either way it is too much, what if somebody starts with those two countries.

[CHAMPOS]

you get three armies for owning a continent

if you own a continent then you get an additional bonus of two armies if you own one of the pinks and an additional bonus of four armies if own both - i.e. you need to own a continent before any bonuses on pink can be recieved

[gavin_sidhu]

ohh... I get it, you called it regions instead of continents in the key. Maybe you should put (continets) after regions to avoid confusion next update. I like this map very much because all the continents are roughly the same size.

[hilts]

nice one champos, it looks good to me...

[x]

Nice one. I was just thinking a Crusades map might be nice.

What about a couple of capital cities? Maybe just a crown on Jerusalem? Or just name the territory "Jerusalem."

I wouldn't give any bonus for the papal states, but I'd give a bonus for owning Jerusalem. This way people will actually fight over Jerusalem.

[Marvaddin]

Really, a new and good idea. I analysed the map:

Countries, borders, routes:
Catholics: 7, 4, 7 - difficult continent, but is adjacent to papal states.
Orthodox: 6, 5, 10 - adjacent to both pink regions, but unholdable, useless continent.
Emirates: 7, 5, 5 - very good one. Near papal, and adjacent to holy lands; easier to defend than the other ones. I would suggest add one country here, to make it bit worse, adding more balance to the game.
Barbarians: 6, 4, 7 - very good, you can reduce borders to 3 taking denmark. Its probably the first continent to be dominated. But its not near the pink countries. Anyway, maybe a country.
Tribes: 6, 3, 7 - the easiest to defend. To add balance I would add one country, plus remove the route Thurco - Bulgaria route.

Well, I suggest add 2 more countries, making it 36, and I suggest add them to Tribes and Emirates, or Tribes and Barbarians. In the last case all regions would have 7, expect for Orthodox, the most difficult one. What do you think?

[stevegriffiths23]

the only problem with the extra bonus is that both pink countries border the yellow region, making them comparatively easy to hold from there compared with, say, the northen region.

[gm6001]

Any german speaking people in this place? ...Irgendwelche englischsprechenden Leute in diesem Platz?! [size=0].[/size][size=0].[/size][size=0].[/size][size=0].[/size][size=0].[/size][size=0].[/size]

[P Gizzle]

i like the bonus of 8 for papal states and Holy land. it makes it more fun

[stevegriffiths23]

gm - ja - ich spreche einbischen, aber ich denke das deine englischetranslator ist kaput!!! lol

[hawkeye]

It looks okay. Some of these are good ideas.

[happysadfun]

so far, looking good. but what about making papal states have a different affect from the holy land?

[x]

Which one of them gets you in to heaven?

[nascarfan38124]

gm - ja - ich spreche einbischen, aber ich denke das deine englischetranslator ist kaput!!! lol

Ja es ist blod.(die o hat ein umlaut) Du musst(umlaut) ein Worterbuch(umlaut) kaufen.

[CHAMPOS]

Revised Map Image (following comments)


[/img][url]http://i96.photobucket.com/albums/l196/champos/finished-bar-picsv2.jpg

changed a few things from the feedback - particular thanks to Marvaddin

to summarise his table:
Countries Borders Neighbouring Proximity to TOTAL
Continents Bonus areas
(0 = best)
Catholics 7 4 3 1 15
Eastern 6 5 4 0 15
Islam 7 5 3 0 15
Pagan 6 4 3 2 15
Moguls 6 4 3 1 14

the balance seems right now

i only have 20days left on free trial on Illustrator - send feedback....
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[reverend_kyle]

thin the borders and change their colors

[edmundomcpot]

dont mean to be over picky but...when were the celts catholics...

[edmundomcpot]

..and it might be a good idea to make the sea bluish

[AndyDufresne]

I've merged your two threads into one. Please keep all updates in this thread.


--Andy

[CHAMPOS]

say that to a Celtic fan!!!

[Marvaddin]

1st, I would like to say I think the map has great potential, and I appreciate you considered my comments.

But again, I dont suggest you to use the number 34 to total of countries. We would have a number of neutral armies with any number of players, and 4 neutral countries in a game with 6 players, while each player has 5 countries, well, I think is too much. Adding 2 countries, we would only have 1 neutral with 5 players, 0 in other games.

And there is a problem in your statistic about continents. Most important than the number of neighbour continents is the number of neighbour countries, countries that can attack a continent. See, for example, the orthodox. Its not holdable, doesnt matter what you do. So, probably no many tries to get it... and as a neighbour of the Emirates, for example, it will probably not be a problem. And see why its so unholdable: not only the number of borders, but see how many countries can attack each border. And from where to expand once you have it? Almost impossible, too. Try the yellow will be suicide in many games.

My suggestion is: maintain the Orthodox as it is, a no men land. And try add balance considering only the other continents. Orthodox will have a country less, and adjacent to both pink, but it will be still a challenge. As you can have 2 more countries, make each other area have 7. The actual way, the blue continent is much powerfull, so it can trouble red (it will be useless, once the player in blue take denmark) and brown ones, so the single problem will be the green one. As its a small map, no many places to hide.

[D.IsleRealBrown]

You need some barriers and to break up a ton of countries.

[happysadfun]

dont mean to be over picky but...when were the celts catholics...

When Saint Patrick's missionaries marched through. Plus it wouldn't make much sense to put them in the pagan continent.