Passwords - meant particularly for clans and regular teams

[friendly1]

Absolutely, but following this you are permitted to have another players password in the event they may miss a turn.

If a player does not previously identify they will miss a turn then you are not permitted to have their password, hence you are not able to take the turn.

I understand how unpopular this opinion is among players. I'm not advocating it, but it doesn't change the current structure. Taking turns for players because they are going to miss will not likely get a warning, but that's more due to enforcement than being permitted.

[Night Strike]

NS's post was his opinion (he has plenty, which he is very entitled to ). He does make some valid points there, and I wouldn't be surprised to see rules about account sitting increase.

Unfortunately, I probably won't get much of a say in what those rules would be if they did happen. Of course, some people would probably prefer it that way.

Btw: When I was a TD, Night Strike didn't have any problem having my password 24/7 in case of an emergency.

I probably assumed it was a temporary password, plus I don't (purposefully) keep passwords anyway: I delete password PMs from my inbox whenever a person I'm sitting for returns.

However, I don't think there is anything wrong with some contingency in case of a real emergency.

My view is generally that if I have to be gone unknowingly from the site long enough to deadbeat out of a game, then I probably have more problems going on than missing CC turns. And if something comes up that causes me to miss one turn: well, that sucks but it's not the end of the world.

[Leehar]

However, I don't think there is anything wrong with some contingency in case of a real emergency.

My view is generally that if I have to be gone unknowingly from the site long enough to deadbeat out of a game, then I probably have more problems going on than missing CC turns. And if something comes up that causes me to miss one turn: well, that sucks but it's not the end of the world.

But then doesn't that still negatively affect others who are affected detrimentally by your missed turns and being left in the lurch due to no fault of their own /?

[Night Strike]

However, I don't think there is anything wrong with some contingency in case of a real emergency.

My view is generally that if I have to be gone unknowingly from the site long enough to deadbeat out of a game, then I probably have more problems going on than missing CC turns. And if something comes up that causes me to miss one turn: well, that sucks but it's not the end of the world.

But then doesn't that still negatively affect others who are affected detrimentally by your missed turns and being left in the lurch due to no fault of their own /?

That's the risk you take in team games since you are depending on someone else within the game.

[Bones2484]

Yes, it is illegal when you take a teammates turn because they have 2 minutes left. Yes it would suck more to have the turn miss, but that doesn't make it legal.

And yes, 90 percent of people playing on CC break this rule. I suspect most occasions are not more than "occasional" cover, but some are definitely abused.

I'm not sure of that...

And thats due to the FAQ About the rules Section, where #19 says:

Furthermore, you should only take another player's turn if they are in danger of missing a turn, not for the purpose of gaining a tactical advantage.

So it'd be hard to imagine that 2 minutes wouldn't fall under that

Not according to KA's comments that I placed in the 2nd post of this thread. Though I would say that one way or another the FAQ needs to be updated to be more clear.

[Kinnison]

A lot of people may consider this bad managment. Where's Nick - he OK with this?

It's not bad management to play by the rules.

Clan Wars are based on the overall strength of the clan. And part of that strength is having reliable teammates that you can count on to take their own turns or let you know when something has come up and they need coverage.

So no-one has anyone elses pass in G1? Someone gets indisposed, they will deadbeat??

Please confirm Bones - no-one in G1 has anyone elses pass? Fact or fiction??

As a G1 member/Leader - To the best of my knowledge, no one in G1 has anyone else's PERMANENT password. We do change to temporary passwords when on vacations, and those are made available for sitting.
I just returned myself from 10 days out of the city, and was actually reminded by my clanmates to change my password back to something private (I logged in as soon as i got home to tell everyone I was back).

As far as sudden emergencies - yes. Frankly, we have had misses and full deadbeatings as a result of this policy. but keep this in mind: CONQUER CLUB IS A GAME. losing a game, or a tournament, or even a clan challenge as a result of this...
...BIG DEAL.

We're more concerned that the person missing turns is all right, that nothing irrecoverable has happened, than we are about the GAME.


Good god, people, get a sense of priorities. Real Life Health and Welfare will ALWAYS trump over a game.

G1 has always seemed to place more of a priority on tournaments than on inter-clan competition... this may just be another facet of the same thing. *shrug* We may NOT think like other clans... but we like it the way we are. We're here to PLAY, and HAVE FUN. Winning is nice... but it's not the only thing in existence.

[BigBallinStalin]

A lot of people may consider this bad managment. Where's Nick - he OK with this?

It's not bad management to play by the rules.

Clan Wars are based on the overall strength of the clan. And part of that strength is having reliable teammates that you can count on to take their own turns or let you know when something has come up and they need coverage.

IF they can let you know.

Don't get me wrong, I agree with NS and everything he said on this subject. However, I don't think there is anything wrong with some contingency in case of a real emergency.

Btw: When I was a TD, Night Strike didn't have any problem having my password 24/7 in case of an emergency.

Lx

I'd imagine that many people are "guilty" of this, but they use this situation responsibly and not nefariously.

Since they're responsible password sharers, then I don't see anything wrong with that. Of course, some may take advantage of this, but if they do, that would be of course be wrong and would be handled by C&A. Otherwise, continue sharing passwords if you can do so responsibly. Also, don't let the mods know.

[Evil Semp]

You guys sure seem to have a lot of "emergencies"

It's not like every day somebody's house is getting burnt down. But think about it and how often do you find something happening to you that puts you an hour behind schedule? How often do you get a flat tire, or miss your train, or there's a car accident on the Kennedy and traffic just isn't moving, or your boss asks you to stay late, or your internet died, or your alarm didn't wake you, or somebody stole the key bowl from the orgy, or your maid got saucy with you and you were forced to give her a stern, yet not uncaring spanking? Probably more often than you'd first expect, which is why I've hired a second maid to take my turns for me.

I found everything you said believable until I reached this part. LOL

[lord voldemort]

I get what G1 are doing...but to some clans this is more than a game...people devote multiple hours into these games....and to have it ruined by missed turns that could be easily solved is kinda fricken annoying. So yeah it is a game...but its not JUST a game to everyone. Youre in a clan....competitive gaming is obviously something of interest to you or you wouldnt of joined one.

[Bones2484]

I get what G1 are doing...but to some clans this is more than a game...people devote multiple hours into these games....and to have it ruined by missed turns that could be easily solved is kinda fricken annoying. So yeah it is a game...but its not JUST a game to everyone. Youre in a clan....competitive gaming is obviously something of interest to you or you wouldnt of joined one.

You fail to see that we also enjoy competitive gaming, just in an honorable environment. Which is why we are picking and choosing our recent wars in a more selective manner. You don't have to break the rules to have fun and we aren't the only clan who treats passwords this way.

Sure it's "fricken annoying" to have missed turns but you know what's more annoying? Having the opposing team cheat. It has ruined the clan atmosphere on this site to put winning above everything else.

On a semi-related note: I'm trying to not go on a rant, but failing, about why it bothers me to have players who aren't in a game give step-by-step strategy to their clan mates who are in a game. If you want to see the true strength of a clan then the strategy should only be developed by those players in the game. You should not be allowed to log into someone else's account for the sole purpose of giving strategy in a game you are not in disguised as that player.

This game (since clans don't use freestyle) is set up in a way where you can follow someone else's strategy exactly and never have to think on the fly for yourself. This is not a talent-based game where you can tell someone what to do but then they still need to have the skill to execute the plan. I know it's impossible to ever stop this from happening in an online site, but I don't understand why clans feel the need to direct gameplay down to every little move instead of trusting their clanmates to think for themselves. Isn't that the point? I think a quote by KA works well here:

Otherwise, we should have a dummy account named under the clan since several clan members are playing under that account.

[jj3044]

On a semi-related note: I'm trying to not go on a rant, but failing, about why it bothers me to have players who aren't in a game give step-by-step strategy to their clan mates who are in a game. If you want to see the true strength of a clan then the strategy should only be developed by those players in the game. You should not be allowed to log into someone else's account for the sole purpose of giving strategy in a game you are not in disguised as that player.

This game (since clans don't use freestyle) is set up in a way where you can follow someone else's strategy exactly and never have to think on the fly for yourself. This is not a talent-based game where you can tell someone what to do but then they still need to have the skill to execute the plan. I know it's impossible to ever stop this from happening in an online site, but I don't understand why clans feel the need to direct gameplay down to every little move instead of trusting their clanmates to think for themselves. Isn't that the point? I think a quote by KA works well here:

Otherwise, we should have a dummy account named under the clan since several clan members are playing under that account.

I think you are confusing two issues. We do not employ this practice. We only hop on when someone is in real danger of missing (like, down to minutes). I personally have taken many turns on maps that I don't play... and try figuring out a map like Cricket in 3 minutes... my covering was not gaining a strategic advantage, and the result was, in most cases, much worse than the player that needed to be covered.

I think most agree with you about hopping on to another account to leave strategy. I agree that this is against the spirit of the game, and it is not something we do either. I sincerely doubt there are many that do this.

[laughingcavalier]

Btw: When I was a TD, Night Strike didn't have any problem having my password 24/7 in case of an emergency.

Lx

This particularly amuses me.

Not sure what the solution is here. Nightstrike's difficulty is that he is expressing a minority opinion, even if he has managed to roll out an admin to back him up this time.

I have some sympathy with his position. I tend to feel that there is too much casual sitting, and that can shade too easily into the sort of abuse that's been seen in at least two high profile clan cases.
I get frustrated losing hardfought games to teams who clearly are waiting for the team boss to dictate every move, and are ready to do some casual sitting at the 23rd hour if this means they are caught short. I've got cross with teammates who have stepped in when they thought I would miss.
But equally I am disappointed by games that are decided on lost moves on either side rather than by the quality of play. And knowing you have a safety net makes the site more enjoyable. When I was a mod and none of my regular teammates knew my pw, I went more than a year with hardly a missed turn. But it was stressful. If you have ever done an escalating sweep on foggy bamboo on your phone in a train going inand outof signal after a day inthe office you will know what i mean.

[lord voldemort]

I get what G1 are doing...but to some clans this is more than a game...people devote multiple hours into these games....and to have it ruined by missed turns that could be easily solved is kinda fricken annoying. So yeah it is a game...but its not JUST a game to everyone. Youre in a clan....competitive gaming is obviously something of interest to you or you wouldnt of joined one.

You fail to see that we also enjoy competitive gaming, just in an honorable environment. Which is why we are picking and choosing our recent wars in a more selective manner. You don't have to break the rules to have fun and we aren't the only clan who treats passwords this way.

Sure it's "fricken annoying" to have missed turns but you know what's more annoying? Having the opposing team cheat. It has ruined the clan atmosphere on this site to put winning above everything else.

On a semi-related note: I'm trying to not go on a rant, but failing, about why it bothers me to have players who aren't in a game give step-by-step strategy to their clan mates who are in a game. If you want to see the true strength of a clan then the strategy should only be developed by those players in the game. You should not be allowed to log into someone else's account for the sole purpose of giving strategy in a game you are not in disguised as that player.

This game (since clans don't use freestyle) is set up in a way where you can follow someone else's strategy exactly and never have to think on the fly for yourself. This is not a talent-based game where you can tell someone what to do but then they still need to have the skill to execute the plan. I know it's impossible to ever stop this from happening in an online site, but I don't understand why clans feel the need to direct gameplay down to every little move instead of trusting their clanmates to think for themselves. Isn't that the point? I think a quote by KA works well here:

Otherwise, we should have a dummy account named under the clan since several clan members are playing under that account.

I think you are blurring the issue. I don't think you will find anyone here saying you should have free will over someone's account to log in whenever you like. Whether they are there or not. For whatever purpose. What I'm saying in this competitive environment there needs to be a system of emergency cover to stop missed turns. Yeah this can be managed by not putting those at risk or planned vacations into games. But people have genuine issues and have genuine reasons for not being able to get that one turn in a game.
And I get having people's password is dangerous. And ideally should not be the case. But until they come up with the proposed sitting feature that was talked about way back when I was a hunter. There isn't much we can do except for advocating honor and integrity internally.
I feel like the ball is really in the admins court with this. They want to stamp out cheating and account abuse. Which is all well and good. But unless they come out with a better system. They risk alienating a giant portion of their subscription customers. Clearly the current one is open for abuse and both parties aren't happy with that

[crispybits]

I think you are blurring the issue. I don't think you will find anyone here saying you should have free will over someone's account to log in whenever you like. Whether they are there or not. For whatever purpose. What I'm saying in this competitive environment there needs to be a system of emergency cover to stop missed turns. Yeah this can be managed by not putting those at risk or planned vacations into games. But people have genuine issues and have genuine reasons for not being able to get that one turn in a game.
And I get having people's password is dangerous. And ideally should not be the case. But until they come up with the proposed sitting feature that was talked about way back when I was a hunter. There isn't much we can do except for advocating honor and integrity internally.
I feel like the ball is really in the admins court with this. They want to stamp out cheating and account abuse. Which is all well and good. But unless they come out with a better system. They risk alienating a giant portion of their subscription customers. Clearly the current one is open for abuse and both parties aren't happy with that

If you're taking the competitive element to such a level where if your teammate misses a turn it's going to ruin your day then pick the team you're in to only include players that don't. There's plenty around who seem to be on the site almost 24-7 (either because they have no life, or more often because they have online access through their phone / work PC / whatever so they can pop in and take a turn most times whilst still having a life)

I've had my account sat. I cleared with with the other players in every game I was in at the time, gave a clan-mate a temporary password, and went and had a nice relaxed weekend away. THAT is what the account sitting feature should be there for. In most every other online game I've played that was the rule, you announce in advance, you nominate the sitter, and you enjoy some time off. I've never played in another game where it's legal for other people just to hop on because they spot you're in danger of missing a turn or whatever the equivalent, because that's an abuse of the system.

As for the "we can do it therefore it's fine" argument - how many of the people using that argument have also argued against loophole abusing such as letting your timer run out to avoid a card, or intentionally deadbeating out of a round limit team game to hand your team-mate your troops and the win? Or any of the other loopholes that exist. Just because you CAN doesn't mean you SHOULD.

[Night Strike]

Btw: When I was a TD, Night Strike didn't have any problem having my password 24/7 in case of an emergency.

Lx

This particularly amuses me.

Why would you find it amusing when I clearly and plainly addressed in this thread how his perception was wrong? I clearly stated that I did not know it was his regular password and that I delete passwords as soon as the person returns anyway.

[Bones2484]

I think it's well said in your post, LoVo, but I still don't know if what you are advocating is even legal when you read KA's comments on the subject. From his comments it seems as though you should never have someone's permanent password.

As for a sitting tool being needed? No arguments here. But that would require some work on the clan front and who knows how likely that is to happen.

[laughingcavalier]

Btw: When I was a TD, Night Strike didn't have any problem having my password 24/7 in case of an emergency.

Lx

This particularly amuses me.

Why would you find it amusing when I clearly and plainly addressed in this thread how his perception was wrong? I clearly stated that I did not know it was his regular password and that I delete passwords as soon as the person returns anyway.

Just funny to see such certainty clouded in doubt. I missed your refutation. It still amuses me.

Permanent password sharing is clearly within the rules currently and will remain so unless someone wants to start a long series of c&a cases to change that.

I would suggest one way to change would be for clans who are in a challenge to agree a challenge-specific rule, something like - There will be no account sitting except in cases where a player has requested cover prior to absence from the site (or in other agreed circumstances).... You could figure out how to work it, eg posting absences in the challenge thread. A lot will depend on trust of course.

[pmchugh]

I think it's well said in your post, LoVo, but I still don't know if what you are advocating is even legal when you read KA's comments on the subject. From his comments it seems as though you should never have someone's permanent password.

As for a sitting tool being needed? No arguments here. But that would require some work on the clan front and who knows how likely that is to happen.

Pssht not true. Are you trying to say merely knowing the permanent password of another player is a violation of CC rules? Feel free to report me for knowing maasmans permanent password.

[Ace Rimmer]

I think it's well said in your post, LoVo, but I still don't know if what you are advocating is even legal when you read KA's comments on the subject. From his comments it seems as though you should never have someone's permanent password.

As for a sitting tool being needed? No arguments here. But that would require some work on the clan front and who knows how likely that is to happen.

Pssht not true. Are you trying to say merely knowing the permanent password of another player is a violation of CC rules? Feel free to report me for knowing maasmans permanent password.

You're both right. KA has said it shouldn't happen but has not made it part of the rules. It's in the gray area where it's not banned but not allowed either. There is no clear ruling/interpretation, which is the correct answer at this time. Either all account sitting/password sharing is banned or there is an account sitter function. Those are the only two ways to get past the gray areas.

[QoH]

There should be some script developed, or something integrated into the site, that allows for clan members to take a turn for someone else in their clan when that player drops below a certain time period. You could ten make it illegal to have someone else's permanent password.

But then, how do you actually prove that players don't have each others permanent passwords? I think that might be rather hard to prove.

[Evil Semp]

People are going to share passwords if it is allowed or not. If you do have someones password save it to a file on your computer or write it down. Do not keep it in your inbox or folders on CC. Keep them secure offsite.

[Master Fenrir]

You guys sure seem to have a lot of "emergencies"

It's not like every day somebody's house is getting burnt down. But think about it and how often do you find something happening to you that puts you an hour behind schedule? How often do you get a flat tire, or miss your train, or there's a car accident on the Kennedy and traffic just isn't moving, or your boss asks you to stay late, or your internet died, or your alarm didn't wake you, or somebody stole the key bowl from the orgy, or your maid got saucy with you and you were forced to give her a stern, yet not uncaring spanking? Probably more often than you'd first expect, which is why I've hired a second maid to take my turns for me.

I found everything you said believable until I reached this part. LOL

I don't get what you mean. One accident and traffic is completely jacked because everybody slows down to see what happened. I drive to the suburbs from work every morning and I pray as I'm putting my makeup on in the car that the drive is a smooth one. You wouldn't believe what the punishment is if I'm late.

-Fenrir's 2nd maid

[Evil Semp]

You guys sure seem to have a lot of "emergencies"

It's not like every day somebody's house is getting burnt down. But think about it and how often do you find something happening to you that puts you an hour behind schedule? How often do you get a flat tire, or miss your train, or there's a car accident on the Kennedy and traffic just isn't moving, or your boss asks you to stay late, or your internet died, or your alarm didn't wake you, or somebody stole the key bowl from the orgy, or your maid got saucy with you and you were forced to give her a stern, yet not uncaring spanking? Probably more often than you'd first expect, which is why I've hired a second maid to take my turns for me.

I found everything you said believable until I reached this part. LOL

I don't get what you mean. One accident and traffic is completely jacked because everybody slows down to see what happened. I drive to the suburbs from work every morning and I pray as I'm putting my makeup on in the car that the drive is a smooth one. You wouldn't believe what the punishment is if I'm late.

-Fenrir's 2nd maid

I was being sarcastic having driven the Kennedy many times.

[maasman]

I think it's well said in your post, LoVo, but I still don't know if what you are advocating is even legal when you read KA's comments on the subject. From his comments it seems as though you should never have someone's permanent password.

As for a sitting tool being needed? No arguments here. But that would require some work on the clan front and who knows how likely that is to happen.

Pssht not true. Are you trying to say merely knowing the permanent password of another player is a violation of CC rules? Feel free to report me for knowing maasmans permanent password.

Shhhh, my password is super secret.

[Bones2484]

I think it's well said in your post, LoVo, but I still don't know if what you are advocating is even legal when you read KA's comments on the subject. From his comments it seems as though you should never have someone's permanent password.

As for a sitting tool being needed? No arguments here. But that would require some work on the clan front and who knows how likely that is to happen.

Pssht not true. Are you trying to say merely knowing the permanent password of another player is a violation of CC rules? Feel free to report me for knowing maasmans permanent password.

What part of "I dont know" and "seems" is too hard for you to understand? I have never once said that it is illegal, only that comments from the admins make it sound like it is; I've asked for clarification on this rule multiple times in this thread.