Operation Michael Mafia sign-ups

[DoomYoshi]

So I don't even have enough for 2 7-player games. Overall, I'd say this entire experiment is a failure... I remember my first game was 20+ players and everyone said no way could I do it.

I have two proposals:
scrap the newbie game; I would then bump skoffin because madmitch posted first. We could have everyone in one big game.
play the newbie game first; and have some people play in both

I'll leave two days for votes to come in.

[Pikanchion]

I would be fine playing both games.

[dakky21]

As already said, I can play both.

[ZaBeast]

I'd rather only play one game (unless there's little to no overlap between them). However I don't think scrapping the vanilla setup is a good idea in terms of retention (lots of new people, let's not scare them off too much ) but I might be wrong

[Ragian]

I can play both.

[BuJaber]

I'd prefer to play only 1 game. But can play both if it helps fill slots.

I think Beast makes a good point regarding the new players though.

[strike wolf]

I can only play one at a time right now. Agree with Beast. Priority on new players.

[Skoffin]

It's not really fair to move mitch to the game which will probably never start, but start the experimental one with Skoffin in it. Either start both or don't start either. Or put mitch as well in this one, Skoff is free to quit it... Just saying. I don't like Mitch play either but it's not fair what we're doing here.

Fairness is not ruining the gaming experience for other players in favour of one person. Mitch should only be in newbie or vanilla games until he learns how to play,; he has no business being in experimental games that have a far greater degree of difficulty. If he does not understand the general rules and principles for the average game then how are we going to expect him to understand this one?
He has made moves in games that would be called out as game-throwing behaviour had anyone else done it, but because of the 'mitch is mitch' mentality he is allowed to do it and not learn from it nor face consequences for his actions.
Back in the day we blacklisted players ( such as new, ani and cena) for such poor player, or restricted them to newbie games, and they became far better players for it as they had to actually work on their play to earn their way back in. The leftover community here has gone far too soft, and that is why we barely have a community left.
Why bother trying to play a game when it's going to go down to chance due to some wildcard player having no impulse control?

[madmitch]

I am done being the nice guy, sure I make mistakes ,and probably don't play as much as Skoffin, but I try and I really enjoy playing, it is just a game no need to get so upset about it, it is not Life there is more in the world to get upset about then a stupid game, so put on your big girl panties and play or not I really don't give a f*ck at this time, and I will play in both if needed and the hell with that red -posting cry baby

[Ragian]

I enjoyed a bit of anger there from mitch

[dakky21]

If only all his posts are this meaningful. That's the thing. He can write a meaningful post when he wants, but 99% are just gibberish and nonsense or just quoting or saying what others said. No own thoughts like that post...

[madmitch]

Oh look it's Skoffins alter ego Dakky

[robellis00]

Well, I need War Medals, so I'm in. I haven't played Mafia on this site before, but I have read through a couple of old games. That actually took a very long time to do so. I will be a new player, but I am a stickler for rules, so you won't have any shenanigans from me (not on purpose). I am willing to play both games, but will need to vanilla game first to get in a practice. I have played Mafia dozens of times in person, the card-game version. So I know the rules, the premise, the strategy. I hate to lose too, so I think that will fit right in with everyone.

So, does that sound alright?

[betiko]

I don t see where to vote but if you need to merge the two games, i m totally fine with that

[DoomYoshi]

Ok, I think we have enough players. I will start setting up the Newbie game tomorrow and will get it started hopefully tomorrow or Friday and then the other game over the weekend.

[Skoffin]

I am done being the nice guy, sure I make mistakes ,and probably don't play as much as Skoffin, but I try and I really enjoy playing, it is just a game no need to get so upset about it, it is not Life there is more in the world to get upset about then a stupid game, so put on your big girl panties and play or not I really don't give a f*ck at this time, and I will play in both if needed and the hell with that red -posting cry baby

Great, as I was done being helpful only for you to spit it back in my face consistently. A game is meant to be fun and it's not fun when someone consistently ruins the game and refuses to change. You have received ample critique of your playstyle on how to improve and you keep going back to the same behaviour that people tell you to stop - stop random voting, stop making instant rash decisions - actually take time to consider what you are doing first - and read the damn game before you act. As I said, I don't think you should be banned from games - I just think you have no place in experimental games - which are hard even for vets - while you are still learning the game. You should stick to newbie or vanilla games until you learn the principles of the game; I'm not even saying that I would not play newbie games with you, I just don't want to play advanced games with you.
This isn't just a me problem - people have left because they are sick of this shit. Even other new players have deserted the community due to it. Our community is dying and you don't care.
If you have a problem with an honest - and correct - opinion on your mafia ability then you need to grow the f*ck up. We are not playing a game of friends, we're supposed to be playing a game of deception and strategy. No one is going to stick around if games are just going to come down to chance and skill becomes irrelevant.

[Dukasaur]

Thanks for pushing ahead with this.

[aage]

It's not really fair to move mitch to the game which will probably never start, but start the experimental one with Skoffin in it. Either start both or don't start either. Or put mitch as well in this one, Skoff is free to quit it... Just saying. I don't like Mitch play either but it's not fair what we're doing here.

Fairness is not ruining the gaming experience for other players in favour of one person. Mitch should only be in newbie or vanilla games until he learns how to play,; he has no business being in experimental games that have a far greater degree of difficulty. If he does not understand the general rules and principles for the average game then how are we going to expect him to understand this one?
He has made moves in games that would be called out as game-throwing behaviour had anyone else done it, but because of the 'mitch is mitch' mentality he is allowed to do it and not learn from it nor face consequences for his actions.
Back in the day we blacklisted players ( such as new, ani and cena) for such poor player, or restricted them to newbie games, and they became far better players for it as they had to actually work on their play to earn their way back in. The leftover community here has gone far too soft, and that is why we barely have a community left.
Why bother trying to play a game when it's going to go down to chance due to some wildcard player having no impulse control?

I second this. I've tried to avoid this discussion because I don't like tackling these kinds of issues, but this needs to be addressed as a community.
I don't think this is the right place to rant about it, but I'm not gonna open a topic in the discussion section, so here I go.

Mafia is supposed to be a thought-provoking game of analysis, mind games, trickery, deceit, and whatever else you want to call it. I've played it for years in that manner and have immensely enjoyed it. Increasing the "difficulty" by adding exotic roles, new mechanics and all that jazz challenges me as a player to be more creative and to think outside the box. When I win a game, I prefer it be over a well thought out argument or a very clutch tell, by me or another player. When I lose a game, I prefer it to be because I was outplayed, or because someone caught me in a lie.

In the last game we finished (CYOC), I believe the detriment of Mitch being in a complex game really showed. It seemed to me that, even though he was basically a confirmed town, even the mafia had no incentive at all to kill him because he's simply bad at the game. If it would have been anyone else in that position, the game would've been played very differently just because of that alone. Secondly, even though he had achieved this status in the game, he did absolutely nothing to move it forward. Thirdly, he achieved that status by performing an absolutely insane daykill and I do not mean that as a compliment. This is not enjoyable gameplay. It's detrimental to the goal of the game, which is enjoyment.

I suspect some people are thinking Skoffin's opinion on this is biased because Mitch shot her in the face for no apparent reason, but you're missing the fact that that is exactly the point.

1) "That's just his playstyle"
- Not playing the actual game isn't a playstyle. Making short posts can be a playstyle, I will even concede that posting gibberish can be a playstyle (one Mandy has mastered) but in those playstyles the player adds something to the game. Mitch does not. I enjoy putting thought, time and effort into the game, but I stop enjoying it when this is not returned by the other players.

2) "He's unpredictable, isn't that the point of mafia"
- Yes he is unpredictable, but again, it doesn't serve a purpose. Some time ago when Mtam and Storr still played here, they also played unpredictably and seemingly random at times, but (a) they were capable of not doing that, and (b) their 'random' actions weren't mindless. I enjoyed playing with them because they actually had a bigger plan, a follow-up play. Mitch does not, or at least has never shown evidence to the contrary.

3) "It's unfair to remove him from games just because you don't like him"
- I don't hate Mitch. I just hate the way he plays the game and subsequently ruins the game by playing it in that manner. I will refer again to CYOC: I won that game, but the second phase of that game was a nightmare. I did not enjoy it at all. This was partly because the players weren't posting, but also because I was apparently supposed to be telling a toddler how to drive the car after he already crashed it into a tree. That game was decided by the fact that Mitch had his vote on the right guy after swinging it half a dozen times. I sincerely regret not policy lynching Mitch, I think it would have made the game far more interesting. What would have made the game even more interesting is having a very powerful role played by an actually competent player.

4) "The teams are random so you won't always be on his team, it's perfectly balanced even if he plays poorly"
- Balance is great but it doesn't lead to enjoyment. I don't care if he is on my team, he is as likely to help his team as to harm it.

5) "it is just a game no need to get so upset about it, it is not Life there is more in the world to get upset about then a stupid game"
- We play games because we enjoy them. Take away that enjoyment and there's no reason to play.


I strongly believe it isn't bad or wrong to simply say "I don't enjoy playing this game with you". It may not be very kind, but it is the truth and it's long past time we faced it. Nobody is suggesting to kick Mitch out of CC mafia forever. Honestly, I think he might actually enjoy playing in less complicated games, and like Skoffin said he might actually learn a thing or two.



Regarding this game, I'm not really interested in the rookie version and, as you may have gathered, I'm also not really interested in playing with Mitch.

[DirtyDishSoap]

I think it's a universal agreement here, not gonna bother echoing the same feels as Skoff or Aage.

CC Mafia is unfortunately, dead in the water.

[DoomYoshi]

Have not forgotten, I've just been busy with work. I have Monday to Friday off next week so will get everything out the door ASAP.

[DoomYoshi]

Newbie game is up and running; will get the other game going tonight.

[vitos3]

I would like to join the game!!!

[Ragian]

Game is already afoot, write DoomYoshi a PM to see if you can be a sub for whoever might not be participating.

[dakky21]

It's another bot. Ro-bot. Robot. Can't you see he has 0 posts, but have a link in the signature?

[Pikanchion]

I have 0 posts and a link in my signature, what are you implying!? :O