Russia vs Georgia

[Shatners Bassoon]

WW3 anybody?



This whole situation worries me




external link-http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/7550354.stm

[Shatners Bassoon]

I don't claim to be a politics student,but the timing of this concerns me.....the worlds attention is on China today,it's not far to a US presidential change and the whole of the West is feeling the economic squeeze at the moment.

[The Weird One]

you do have a point. I'll probably post some more once I've read/heard more on it.

[Frigidus]

Whatever happens we won't be involved. What's there to gain in fighting someone as tough as Russia? There's nothing to be gained in helping Georgia either. A losing proposition all in all. Unless something arises that might potentially make someone money we'll be neutral.

[The Weird One]

Whatever happens we won't be involved. What's there to gain in fighting someone as tough as Russia? There's nothing to be gained in helping Georgia either. A losing proposition all in all. Unless something arises that might potentially make someone money we'll be neutral.

True, Georgia seems to be looking for a way to get the hell out of and still save some face now that russia's suddenly popped up in the seperatist region that they attacked.

[brooksieb]

Well i like the georgian flag, like Englands, but yeah like you guys said hopefully The UK and US can make some money out of this but i still want georgia to hold their ground, after all georgia and ukraine want to join NATO. Georgia up until now apparently have made a few contributions to Iraq war effort.

[brooksieb]

Put Russia declares war as the title, it will attract more attention.

[Shatners Bassoon]

Well i like the georgian flag, like Englands, but yeah like you guys said hopefully The UK and US can make some money out of this but i still want georgia to hold their ground, after all georgia and ukraine want to join NATO. Georgia up until now apparently have made a few contributions to Iraq war effort.

They have,but now they are recalling 1000 troops from that region to fight the Russians.

[DaGip]

I say we attack the living shit out of the fucking Russians! They can't attack Georgia, for crying out loud! What next? West Virginia? Florida? That's all we need is the Gators to be taken over!!!! f*ck THE ROOSKIES!!!!

[brooksieb]

I say we attack the living shit out of the fucking Russians! They can't attack Georgia, for crying out loud! What next? West Virginia? Florida? That's all we need is the Gators to be taken over!!!! f*ck THE ROOSKIES!!!!

I hope you're either not serious or very drunk Gip lol.

[Iliad]

I say we attack the living shit out of the fucking Russians! They can't attack Georgia, for crying out loud! What next? West Virginia? Florida? That's all we need is the Gators to be taken over!!!! f*ck THE ROOSKIES!!!!

I hope you're either not serious or very drunk Gip lol.

You never know. Either he's never serious or he is mad. But at least he is consistent with his madness

[CrazyAnglican]

It seems like this problem with South Ossetia and the other breakaway province from Georgia has been going on since 1990. It will be interesting to see if Georgia backs down. The U.S. and NATO have not been neutral. Nobody has pledged help, but the rhetoric seems to be anti-Russia right now.

DaGip, West Georgia is okay. I'm here and haven't seen any Russians. I think they are talking about way on the other side.

[kletka]

It seems like this problem with South Ossetia and the other breakaway province from Georgia has been going on since 1990. It will be interesting to see if Georgia backs down. The U.S. and NATO have not been neutral. Nobody has pledged help, but the rhetoric seems to be anti-Russia right now.

The main problem with Georgia - idiotic presidents. Their first president Gamsakhurdia was a complete nutcase, scientist, poet and human right activist, according to his wiki page - what could be worse? All these wars in early 90-s in Georgia was the result of his inabliti to handle politics.

Their second president Shevarnadze, former soviet foreign minister was an exception and the country had a stroke of luck with him. But now they have another nutter Saakashvili, a US human rights lawer, brrr I just wish that instead of killing all these people in the war, russians would throw a little FOAB on his residence, and that would be it...

BTW, historically Russia and Georgia were always good friends. It really needs a big brain of a US human rights lawer to turn 300 years of history around...

Another BTW, Stalin was georgian, his last name was Dzhugashvili; he was a native of Gori that russians bombed overnight...

[gimil]

Whatever happens we won't be involved. What's there to gain in fighting someone as tough as Russia? There's nothing to be gained in helping Georgia either. A losing proposition all in all. Unless something arises that might potentially make someone money we'll be neutral.

With georgias application to join nato being discussed in winter its a big problem for everyone. For those of you that dont know, all nato members have a general aggreement that if one nato country is invaded all other nato country will help their allies. There may be no gain but thats the agreement set out by nato.

So if georgia gain there nato status then we are obligated to help them, especially since we (uk) recognised the area that russia has entered as within georgians international boarders.

[MeDeFe]

What I find strange is that Russia is backing the separatists at all, it might really hurt their long-term credibility, Ukraine should be part of Russia, no independence for Kosovo, independence for South Ossetia, no independence for Chechnya... their position is anything but coherent. It's especially strange given what a country Russia is, it spans the length of an entire continent, there are quite a lot of different ethnic groups and apart from Russian some 100 languages are spoken throughout the nation. After the fall of the USSR they had enough problems with provinces breaking away and declaring independence left and right, there are still provinces trying to become independent.
There is no good answer to the question "Why them but not us?"


With that said I can only reiterate what I said in an other thread a while back, if the population of an area through a democratic process (which is more than the rule of the majority) decides to declare themselves an independent nation I see no problem with it. Ultimately I do not even see any large problems with two nations overlapping and people answering to different governments, defining a nation by its geographical borders is simply a product of a historical process and there is no need to cling to it.

[e_i_pi]

What I find strange is that Russia is backing the separatists at all, it might really hurt their long-term credibility, Ukraine should be part of Russia, no independence for Kosovo, independence for South Ossetia, no independence for Chechnya... their position is anything but coherent. It's especially strange given what a country Russia is, it spans the length of an entire continent, there are quite a lot of different ethnic groups and apart from Russian some 100 languages are spoken throughout the nation. After the fall of the USSR they had enough problems with provinces breaking away and declaring independence left and right, there are still provinces trying to become independent.
There is no good answer to the question "Why them but not us?"

I agree MeDeFe. But unfortunately I think that Russia is so big that it doesn't care about consistency (not to mention the matter of energy resources). No one republic can rise against them to create a soveriegn state as they would simply get crushed. Look at the list of unrecognised zones in Russian borders that have secessionist movements and are part of UNPO:

• Chechnya
• Chuvashia
• Ingria
• Komi
• Mari El
• Tatarstan
• Udmurtia

...then on top of that you have Adygia, Altai, Bashkortostan, Buryatia, Dagestan, Don Cossackia, Eastern Siberia, Far Eastern Republic, Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkaria, Kaliningrad, Kalmykia, Karachay-Cherkessia, Karelia, Khakassia, Kuban Cossackia, Northern Ossetia (!), Mordovia, Sakha, Sami, Siberia, Tuva, Ural, Vepsia, and Votia. All of these regions have ethnic identity and/or seperatist movements, yet haven't initiated a formal process of seceding.

One of the main reasons Russia didn't recognise Kosovo is the matter of seperatist movements within its own borders, and yet it does this with Ossetia. It all smells very fishy to me, like it's a bit of a land grab while every other nation is busy, and before Georgia can shelter under the wing of NATO. I would hope that the whole thing is resolved quickly and peacefully, but with the amount of spin already coming from both sides, I fear this may be a protracted conflict, one that has already gone on for years without Western media giving a damn...

[GabonX]

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldne ... gular.html

This could be big..

[got tonkaed]

it could, its an interesting time to start such a thing at the very least. Im not sure what exactly the best solution is to the problem at the moment.

[InsomniaRed]

RUSSIA VS. GEORGIA

I'll take the bets....

[got tonkaed]

mod edit

that is sort of selling the mess that was Chechyna a bit short.

Still i wonder if there wont be something to at least curb this from boiling over into a bigger conflict.

[Shatners Bassoon]

bump

[Ruben Cassar]

Why is it okay for Kosovo and the rest of the former Yugoslav republics to decalre independence and gain the backing of the EU and US while South Ossetia and Abkhazia have declared independence from Georgia since 1992 and the EU and US don't back them up?

Food for thought guys.

[Ruben Cassar]

I agree MeDeFe. But unfortunately I think that Russia is so big that it doesn't care about consistency (not to mention the matter of energy resources). No one republic can rise against them to create a soveriegn state as they would simply get crushed. Look at the list of unrecognised zones in Russian borders that have secessionist movements and are part of UNPO:

• Chechnya
• Chuvashia
• Ingria
• Komi
• Mari El
• Tatarstan
• Udmurtia

...then on top of that you have Adygia, Altai, Bashkortostan, Buryatia, Dagestan, Don Cossackia, Eastern Siberia, Far Eastern Republic, Ingushetia, Kabardino-Balkaria, Kaliningrad, Kalmykia, Karachay-Cherkessia, Karelia, Khakassia, Kuban Cossackia, Northern Ossetia (!), Mordovia, Sakha, Sami, Siberia, Tuva, Ural, Vepsia, and Votia. All of these regions have ethnic identity and/or seperatist movements, yet haven't initiated a formal process of seceding.

It's not true that those regions listed want to secede from Russia. Russia has always been very ethnically, culturally and religiously diverse. Just because these regions have different elements of any of these three it does not mean that they want to secede.

The only hot spot is Chechnya right now but they won't get secession. They can aspire for greater autonomy though.

Back on South Ossetia and Abkhazia. Most of the people living there have Russian citizenship and they do not want to be part of Georgia. In fact they have enjoyed autonomy from Georgia for the past 15 years. The situation is a bit similar with the Crimean region. The people living there consider themselves Russian not Ukrainian, and indeed the region has historically been part of Russia.

[Ruben Cassar]

mod edit

Of course the US won't antagonise Russia. No one in their senses would do such a thing. And of course Georgia has no chance of doing anything against the Russian bear.

Frankly I can't understand why Georgia hasn't sought closer ties with both the West and Russia. Having Russia as a neighbour is a tricky situation. The Georgians should have kept them as their friends as well.

[DaGip]

What we need to do is sneak a giant straw through the center of the earth to Russian oil fields and start sucking them dry!