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New York 1695 v15

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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby uckuki on Thu Sep 14, 2023 3:48 pm

like the look, looking forward to playing it

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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby plurple on Sat Oct 14, 2023 6:22 am

ok have fixed a couple of issue with the xml and have uploaded to the beta site. Need to wait for Shannon to make some changes to the small map as it doesn't match the large map and has different connections and territories :? so if you do play on the beta site bear that in mind :D

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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Shannon Apple on Sun Oct 15, 2023 6:30 pm

Alright. I'll try to get this fixed as soon as I can.
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Shannon Apple on Mon Oct 16, 2023 7:22 am

I used Minister X image for v.15 (on the first page) to update the files I got to v.15. Added clearer entrances and the inset bonus values are now changed to match the latest version. I hope I didn't miss anything. I also just made a new small version of the map.

He had changed Prince's Street to Beaver Street and moved a boundary of Beaver Street from King D to A, so I adjusted these also.


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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby plurple on Wed Oct 18, 2023 4:45 pm

ok I have updated the maps and xml on the beta site :)

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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Fuchsia tude on Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:14 am

Shannon Apple wrote:I used Minister X image for v.15 (on the first page) to update the files I got to v.15. Added clearer entrances and the inset bonus values are now changed to match the latest version. I hope I didn't miss anything. I also just made a new small version of the map.

He had changed Prince's Street to Beaver Street and moved a boundary of Beaver Street from King D to A, so I adjusted these also.


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Just to confirm, the "A" and "B" (the latter of which contains an anchor) next to Broad Way are part of the TWO B'WAY region, correct? That's unclear at first glance on the large map. Maybe you should move the "TWO B'WAY (5)" label down a dozen or more pixels so it's in the middle, as it is on the small map.
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Minister X on Mon Oct 30, 2023 8:35 am

A suggestion was made that perhaps the streets should be neutral one instead of two. Not a bad idea but consider an alternative: instead of reverting to neutral, a player can own a street but his forces get degraded (reduced) by one or two (or more?) at the end of his turn. If reduced to zero THEN reverts to neutral. (Or, alternatively, cannot be reduced to zero.)

Or something along those lines. Gameplay should be the primary concern but reductions (I forget what this is called in XML) are consistent with the "theme" of the map, which is that New York is a dangerous place. Think of roving street gangs beating up pedestrians.

From the beginning we recognized that having streets always reverting to neutral, combined with the fact that few non-street terts connect directly to other bonus-useful terts, would make this a VERY WEIRD map that might be unplayable. So don't shy away from making major changes. :D
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby plurple on Mon Oct 30, 2023 10:51 am

with the current xml it is either killer neutrals or troop decay it is not possible to have the decay and then revert to neutral. Unless I am missing some way to do it :D

Though is another cool application of the unimplemented transform feature of being able to set ownership of a territory, which would allow for the conditional killer :D but would need to help me convince Bigwham to implement it :P

I am happy to make changes to how the streets work as I will be honest in playing a few games on beta of the map am not really enjoying it as it is very restrictive of how you can attack each turn and if someone gets an early bonus it can be very hard to break them and stay in the game 1vs1 anyway. Not played any multi player so may play better there :) Or maybe the style is not for me as feels very trenchy :D
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Shannon Apple on Mon Oct 30, 2023 2:32 pm

Fuchsia tude wrote:Just to confirm, the "A" and "B" (the latter of which contains an anchor) next to Broad Way are part of the TWO B'WAY region, correct? That's unclear at first glance on the large map. Maybe you should move the "TWO B'WAY (5)" label down a dozen or more pixels so it's in the middle, as it is on the small map.



I just fixed that.

And after talking about opacity on lines with MinisterX recently, I made the decision to change the harshness of the black, to a dark brown. I think it is more fitting to the style of the map. I'll add a proper update with both versions of the map at a later time... just in case there are more changes to be made.

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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby iancanton on Mon Oct 30, 2023 5:23 pm

Minister X wrote:A suggestion was made that perhaps the streets should be neutral one instead of two. Not a bad idea but consider an alternative: instead of reverting to neutral, a player can own a street but his forces get degraded (reduced) by one or two (or more?) at the end of his turn.

although i initially thought that the street killer neutrals were unique, they're actually somewhat similar to the buggy stop junctions in salem's switch, which are single killer neutrals. street decay is possible, with the wrinkle that it slows down trench games compared with street killer neutrals.

ian. :)
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Minister X on Tue Oct 31, 2023 12:16 am

It's up to you guys to figure this out. I've not played enough games with all the varied rules and combinations to have a feel for what would work or not. But I'll offer another suggestion that would change things completely: forget about the streets being dangerous (re-write the blurb). Make three "continents" of them with their own bonuses. Wall/King/Dock/Whitehall. Church and Beaver. The three Broad Ways. Now we're talking basic urban warfare. Control of the streets (probably with big bonuses) means you can "break in" to many different buildings. This change would make the fact that the bonus blocks like Three B'Way having no interconnection among the terts very interesting. Without control of some streets, you're stuck! The streets should all start neutral. That way the players begin as if waiting in buildings for the rioting to begin, then they pour out into the streets. [Fun with unlimited reinforcements?]

All I'm saying is that the rules/map as they are was always considered unlikely to survive playtest without major changes. Don't be afraid to make them. Think outside the box of the current map and rules.
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Minister X on Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:31 am

For instance, here's a radical redesign for your consideration. Is it better than the original? Would gameplay be better?

(Please excuse the quick and dirty map.)

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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby josko.ri on Mon Nov 06, 2023 4:31 pm

Plqyed it on beta site. Excellent idea of preventing first turn luck with neutrals between. This feature is unique and very original. Hatts off to MinisterX
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby plurple on Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:17 pm

Minister X wrote:For instance, here's a radical redesign for your consideration. Is it better than the original? Would gameplay be better?

(Please excuse the quick and dirty map.)

Image


I don't like this idea personally I think though I don't like how restrictive it is currently making it as open as you have here makes it like any other map. It would be a pretty simple map at that point. I think it could do with a little bit of opening up but not to this extent. I think there should probably be a few extra doorways in buildings but not all of the ones you have outlined. I will mock up what I propose later :)
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Minister X on Mon Nov 06, 2023 9:42 pm

Excellent.
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby plurple on Wed Nov 29, 2023 8:15 pm

Having played a multi player game i liked it more than as a 1vs1.

Though that might have been because i won. And also started in the fort so didn't need to go through the streets to get started.

I think keeping the streets killers is fine. But as i said before opening up the buildings a small amount may help (i will actually mock up my thoughts on that tomorrow) but also more eyes on it will be good.
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby plurple on Thu Nov 30, 2023 12:53 pm

Click image to enlarge.
image


if it is not obvious what I added/removed here is a break down:

show: Changes

I feel that would make the map a bit more enjoyable without adding the possibility of gaining any bonus(without dropping on it) without going through the streets but means direct attacks on the enemy are most likely available. But maybe this is to much or not enough is just an idea :)
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby iancanton on Sat Dec 02, 2023 6:26 pm

          Beta - Quenching


The initial beta development period has concluded for the New York 1695 map. The map has been tested and xml faults have been fixed. The Foundry and I hereby brand this map with the Foundry Beta Brand. Let it be known that this map is now ready for BETA Play, during which gameplay changes can be made. After an extended period of time in BETA and once all quirks and issues have been resolved, the map will be put into Full Play (barring any Admin or Foundry Foreman vetoes).

Conquer Club, enjoy!

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While the map is in BETA Play, there are a couple of administrative tasks that are required of the mapmaker(s) in addition to the initial gameplay testing:
    1. Please ensure that the first post of the thread contains all the necessary information to help future visitors to the development thread; it's particularly important to ensure the most recent images are there, along with any helpful guides (such as gameplay quirks/nuances or the location/size of any starting neutrals).
    2. It is the responsibility of the mapmakers to ensure that they respond to further feedback in a timely and constructive manner.
    3. Write a "creative" map description and post it here. You're encouraged to copy it into the first post of the thread as well; the description will replace the current provisional one and be used to populate the maps database.


ian. :)
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Minister X on Sun Dec 03, 2023 12:05 am

I'm a bit unsure. Ian: would you like me to write a short blurb describing the game? How many words?

On a side note to Beta testers: it seems a lot of you really love fog, but when you play that way no one can follow the game to see if the map is working well or not. Of course the game should be tested under all possible rules, but unless you really need fog...
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby iancanton on Mon Dec 04, 2023 10:27 am

yes, please, about fifty words is ideal, for the maps tab.

ian. :)
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Minister X on Mon Dec 04, 2023 8:05 pm

Gotcha. Maps tab. I see. Here's a try. But the thing is, Ian, I'm not a 'player' and won't have as good a feel for what might appeal to players. So edit away and if any of the Beta testers want to make suggestions, fine by me.

Imagine New York City as the Wild West. In 1695 the streets were so dangerous no one tarried in them for long. Think twice before letting your gang make any forays. This game is quite a bit different than most.

Not sure about that last sentence. Maybe a different wording? Other than proposing that brevity is the soul of wit, this about the best I can offer. At least I'm prompt!
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby iancanton on Thu Dec 07, 2023 7:46 pm

Minister X wrote:Imagine New York City as the Wild West. In 1695, the streets were so dangerous no one tarried in them for long. Think twice before letting your gang make any forays!

let's try this!

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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby Donelladan on Sun Dec 17, 2023 11:04 am

I just discovered the map.
Nice job.

A remark on the bonus. The yard seem to be the only bonus that you can take without having to go through the street.
Looks like a tremendous advantage to me.
No downside, also has the fort in the middle.
That's making the map a bit unbalanced, especially for 1vs1 I'd assume.

I didn't played any game on it yet, so I'll try to come back and comment once I've played a few games to confirm/infirm this.
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby plurple on Mon Dec 18, 2023 3:25 pm

Donelladan wrote:I just discovered the map.
Nice job.

A remark on the bonus. The yard seem to be the only bonus that you can take without having to go through the street.
Looks like a tremendous advantage to me.
No downside, also has the fort in the middle.
That's making the map a bit unbalanced, especially for 1vs1 I'd assume.

I didn't played any game on it yet, so I'll try to come back and comment once I've played a few games to confirm/infirm this.


I have to agree with donelladan if we make no other changes then we need to make the fort weaker by making it 2 or 3 separate parts. As if you drop in there you have a huge advantage in multiplayer and a slight advantage if you can claim it in 1vs1
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Re: New York 1695 v15

Postby TrafalgarLaw01 on Tue Dec 19, 2023 12:08 pm

I agree.

I suggest one of the following or both:

1) Make at least one of the yard terts drop neutral
2) Make the fort start with 8 neutral

Otherwise loving the map. when the war is not about the yard the fight through the streets is really fun.
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