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HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby HitRed on Sun Jul 05, 2020 10:16 am

As a side note, there is a simular line west of the Nile River Delta that serves no purpose. It is simular to the one around Jerusalem. Best to remove it.

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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34a

Postby iancanton on Sun Jul 05, 2020 4:59 pm

HitRed wrote:Only one issue - visually and intrinsically I thought Rum could attack Jerusalem. Most players will also be confused. Straighten that out somehow and it's gold!

the jerusalem border is not only a perfect circle that is very close to the troop circle but, unlike all other borders, continues unbroken into the sea till it hits land again. if the jerusalem region becomes slightly bigger and a more irregular shape whose border stops at the sea, with the troop circle itself being moved slightly further left, then this will lessen confusion. the colour used for borders blends in very well with some of the natural features, when it needs to pop out a little more.

CHAMPOS wrote:Can you play more than 4 games in beta?

if u request beta premium in the thread below, then loutil will arrange this for u, since u're already premium on the live site.

https://www.conquerclub.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=739&t=198049&start=75

ian. :)
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby HitRed on Sun Jul 05, 2020 5:25 pm

What is the purpose of Jerusalem? It's the CROSSROADS of 3 major religions and the CROSSROADS from Africa to Asia and Europe. So why not make it the key crossroads here?

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Later - I re-read the original thread and you did imagine all the world's religions converging on Jerusalem. Making it the key spot to the game.
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby CHAMPOS on Mon Jul 06, 2020 9:31 am

What are you thinking when you say key crossroads? Any ideas.
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby HitRed on Mon Jul 06, 2020 1:52 pm

CHAMPOS wrote:What are you thinking when you say key crossroads? Any ideas.


Currently, Jerusalem is a Cul De Sac. It is a neutral behind another starting neutral, that leads nowhere. Consider the northern part of Ayyubid being given to the territory of Jerusalem. Touching Rum, Ilkhanare, Abbasid, Ayyubid and maybe Arabian Tribes.


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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby Mad777 on Mon Jul 06, 2020 2:57 pm

agreeing here, Jerusalem must have some sort of outgoing to make sense having it hidden being a neutral, perhaps bringing it to Neutral 5 and have it attacking few major point around...being a +1 stand alone bonus wouldn’t make this territ useless to keep.
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby riskllama on Mon Jul 06, 2020 10:24 pm

perhaps make it an autodeploy?
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby CHAMPOS on Thu Jul 09, 2020 9:55 am

HitRed wrote:
CHAMPOS wrote:What are you thinking when you say key crossroads? Any ideas.


Currently, Jerusalem is a Cul De Sac. It is a neutral behind another starting neutral, that leads nowhere. Consider the northern part of Ayyubid being given to the territory of Jerusalem. Touching Rum, Ilkhanare, Abbasid, Ayyubid and maybe Arabian Tribes.


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Agree with these comments. I think we could change Jerusalem into the holy lands (jerusalem, Damascus and Antioch). Still historically accurate (as these were being fought over in the crusades at the time) and means it will border more territories.

Keep the comments coming...
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby Mad777 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 10:23 am

Why not both? autodeploy +1 and open to those 3 borders?
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby HitRed on Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:02 pm

I do like the Auto Deploy +1 Holy Lands. Makes it a fortress in the middle of the map. Your call.

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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby Mad777 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 12:10 pm

Also, posted this in one of our Beta game:

I think Gibraltar needs a pass too, otherwise it makes the north Africa a "cul the sac" as well, and where players can be trap from one guard territ only (Ayyubid Caliphate)
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby HitRed on Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:55 pm

Mad777 wrote:Also, posted this in one of our Beta game:

I think Gibraltar needs a pass too, otherwise it makes the north Africa a "cul the sac" as well, and where players can be trap from one guard territ only (Ayyubid Caliphate)


As shown in the thread Catholic and Islamic bonuses would never be taken. Islamic is hard enough as it reaches all the way to above India. So far I really like the 3 area playing style each with a little sub bonus inside.


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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby Mad777 on Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:34 pm

HitRed wrote:
Mad777 wrote:Also, posted this in one of our Beta game:

I think Gibraltar needs a pass too, otherwise it makes the north Africa a "cul the sac" as well, and where players can be trap from one guard territ only (Ayyubid Caliphate)


As shown in the thread Catholic and Islamic bonuses would never be taken. Islamic is hard enough as it reaches all the way to above India. So far I really like the 3 area playing style each with a little sub bonus inside.


HitRed

when you play type of map like this with 4 players or more you don’t think of taking bonuses anyway, if this map is intended to benefit 2-3 players game type then i see your point however map should be viable in most all type, shouldn’t?
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby HitRed on Thu Jul 09, 2020 6:53 pm

Mad777 wrote:
HitRed wrote:
Mad777 wrote:Also, posted this in one of our Beta game:

I think Gibraltar needs a pass too, otherwise it makes the north Africa a "cul the sac" as well, and where players can be trap from one guard territ only (Ayyubid Caliphate)


As shown in the thread Catholic and Islamic bonuses would never be taken. Islamic is hard enough as it reaches all the way to above India. So far I really like the 3 area playing style each with a little sub bonus inside.


HitRed

when you play type of map like this with 4 players or more you don’t think of taking bonuses anyway, if this map is intended to benefit 2-3 players game type then i see your point however map should be viable in most all type, shouldn’t?


This map is viable: trench, nuclear, escalating, etc. I think a 5 or 8 player will be literally killer. Knife fight from the beginning to secure the small bonuses.
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby Vlasov on Fri Jul 10, 2020 4:18 am

I'm currently active in two games in Beta -- one HolyWars game (15869133) and one of my own scenarios (15869208). I've been eliminated in another scenario (15869154) with bots, but the remaining bots are "stuck" and the game won't end.

I tried to join another HolyWars game (15869182), but it said I'm already playing 4 games and I can't add another unless I upgrade to Premium.

I'm a premium member in the primary CC version. What gives?
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby Mad777 on Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:45 am

Vlasov wrote:I'm currently active in two games in Beta -- one HolyWars game (15869133) and one of my own scenarios (15869208). I've been eliminated in another scenario (15869154) with bots, but the remaining bots are "stuck" and the game won't end.

I tried to join another HolyWars game (15869182), but it said I'm already playing 4 games and I can't add another unless I upgrade to Premium.

I'm a premium member in the primary CC version. What gives?


Request your Beta Premium to be renew here:

viewtopic.php?f=739&t=198049
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby CHAMPOS on Fri Jul 10, 2020 7:50 am

Thanks for all the comments.

So far I think the following should be adjusted:

- internal white lines removed from base map to make clearer, no change to border territories (hitred's comments)

- Jerusalem changed to Holy Lands and made larger (perhaps two territories, so both border the neighbouring terrifies). Would have this as a bonus of 1 or maybe an autodeply of 2. both would start neutral at the beginning of the game

- no further crossings proposed. we deliberately did not have more crossing to help the already difficult green and white bonuses,

Any other comments...
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby HitRed on Fri Jul 10, 2020 8:42 am

This is hard to say but I think I'm wrong about changing Jerusalem. The reason is in the math.

Eastern Orthodox can take Europe. India can take Asia. Oriental Orthodox can take Africa BUT is unlikely to take the India area bonus part without defeating India. But it does have a side option to get another +1 bonus from Jersalem. So the player would be plus 3 while the other 2 players are plus 2. It helps. Also Africa is easier to defend once taken.

Moving Jerusalem out and north will likely only help Eastern Orthodox as it would be closer.

I think just clean up the map like Ian asked and let it be.

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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby CHAMPOS on Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:41 am

what about this...
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby HitRed on Sat Jul 11, 2020 7:14 am

CHAMPOS wrote:what about this...
Image


I would stay with version of v34 and just clean it up. I think it was brilliant!

This test map helps Eastern Orthodox the most due to proximity and hurts Islamic the most.

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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby Donelladan on Sun Jul 19, 2020 8:31 am

I just started a game on the beta site.

Some of the troops number aren't well centered in their circle.

Also find the names not really smooth/readable. Especially the legends when using the small maps.

Why don't you scraps all the Kingdom's from the texts name, replace them by K. if you insist to keep the K.
Like Kingdom of France, Kindgom of Norway, Kingdom of Sweden, etcc.. take a lot of place but doesn't really give valuable information.
Calling them just France, Norway, Sweden would work just as well.

FYI : still think the +8 bonus are going to be pretty much useless because they are impossible to hold, just like no one ever hold the Asian bonus on Classic.
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Re: HOLYWARS 1250 - VERSION 34

Postby Fuchsia tude on Tue Jul 21, 2020 1:05 pm

Why am I able to reinforce from Hafsid Caliphate to Mali Empire, but not vice versa? The map says they border, but nothing about that connection being one-way.

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