INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[chapcrap]

No bump mentioned. Someone bit me.

Who did you target last night when you were poisoned?

[TX AG 90]

So I don't believe TX.

If he were town and really believed his stuff, specifically the redundancy in town roles part, he would have went after strike.

In fact he would have went after strike earlier in the game. Why let town run around thinking strike is our savior?

Because TX is scum. He is setting up these two lynches, while hedging his bets on strike just so nobody looks too closely, and so he can avoid the suspicion and lynch that would undoubtedly come at him if strike flips town.

In other words, he doesn't want to lynch strike because if strike gets lynched and flips town TX will be lynched. He wants to delay that as much as possible.

Very well done pretending you were a newbie. But this is all way too skilled. You had me fooled for sure, I was struggling to read you because of the newbie looking stuff.

Vote TX AG 90

No skill - truth.

I've already explained my reasons for going after blacky before strike. I believe they are both scum or both town. It doesn't hurt to keep Strike alive one more day if he is a scum Doctor, but blacky may be the poisoner. And if I am wrong and blacky flips town, then I would rather have strike alive. The reason is. you will probably lynch me next and at least town will still have another protector/healer.

Yes, I'm putting my coconuts on the table by suggesting this, but I'm determined to help town win this. I assume f I am wrong, you guys will lynch me next. That's a risk I'm willing to take.

Then again, maybe you are right and they are not a team. Maybe blacky played SW all along, but I don't think so.

I'd be willing to lynch SW instead of blacky if that is consensus, but I think blacky 1st is better play.

[chapcrap]

Tobi, you making up these random scenarios for people that you misdirect has to stop. Maybe you misdirected Pika and he got sent to Sirius randomly and then a busdriver drove him from there to his death. I mean, maybe. But maybe doesn't mean anything. If you want to share your misdirection with us, then fine, but speculation without any kind of backup is ridiculous.

EGMEOY Tobi.

+1 (except IGMEOY)

SW and TX. If you either or both of you are really healers, it would help to know who you targeted every night. If there is a night kill ability, like what happened to aage, then where was it on N1 and N2? Possibly the ability was latent or not unlocked yet. Normally, that would mean that the target was saved. So, if we know who you targeted, then we know that person was town and was saved by you...

fp'd by TX

[TX AG 90]

@tobi: He might be sensitive because you phrased it in a pretty leading way that would make Pika seem scummy if Pik a admitted it or didn't admit it. Your logic for accusing Mets day 2 was pretty shit. Your reasoning here is only better because you weren't as adamant about it. You pretty much said "I'm not gonna say that Pik a targeted Aage to kill him but it could have been the case!"

I didn't target Mets last night. I was suspicious of him. No one was voting Mets but more others were suspicious of him. I also had two other factors to consider, 1. Rages claim was still up in the air, as long as Mets was alive, no one could prove that Ragians claim was true. 2. Protecting a player I was suspicious of could potentially expose a player I trusted. 3. I wasn't sure how likely (there are a lot of but I did take into account that there was a possibility) that there was a second healer who might choose to save Mets, I guess I was wrong. It was a gamble. I suppose a bad one.

I chose to protect ZaBeast last night.

@TX: I thought I had mentioned this but perhaps I got distracted and never actually posted...my main action is to prevent (block as it says in my pm) all night kill attempts. Poisoning is a kill attempt. Even from a passive poisoner. It's just one with a delayed trigger.

I am not going to vote anyone right now. We are likely close to Lylo and we need to be careful about voting until we know we have more facts and better info. Right now, I am suspicious of anyone trying to start an early wagon.

I suppose I'll share more. Tonight my action came back as successful. On prodding the mod I pretty much found out this just means I wasn't role blocked or redirected. Furthermore, my message from night 2 seemed to indicate that me and Blacky received protection (Blacky from me and me from ???) To complicate matters, I was told what my 300 credit condition was which I wasn't supposed to know until I achieved my 100 credit one which was to save two people from poison (I do not think this would include TX because it seems to specifies that it happens when I save them). The strange part is that the way the message was written, I lost vision and then I knew me and my target were safe. I'm still not really sure what this means exactly.

I would not claim doc (Even if I was scum sided doc) to counter claim someone I thought had claimed doc on day 2 if I was scum and there was a second scum team. Claiming doc day 2 is like asking for scum to try to figure out a way to take you out of the game. Ergo it's suicide. I would not counter claim a doc unless I had good reason to know the guy wasn't a doc. He flips doc, I'm lynched the next day. Ergo, it's still suicide. I could be allied with a role cop if i was scum and check JFM but this would be a waste of a role cops action to target someone who's already claimed. Which leaves some other way that we figured out that JFM wasnt who he claimed. So I'm either suicidal, there s no ofher scum team in the game and I'm allied with a role cop who investigated someone who had already claimed because I guess we're idiots, we miraculously discovered he was lying about being a doc or I'm not scum.

@TX: What made you feel you were a better protection target than anyone else in the game?

There is another reason you would claim doc and that is because you know you won't be Night Killed because you are scum. The fact that you have survived 2 nights without death is suspicious itself. If I was scum, I would have killed you N2 when you planned on healing blacky. If you and blacky were in fact town, then killing you would have eliminated both of you (Night Kills have initiative over healing roles is my understanding). That would be a 2-fer for scum, but yet you survived N2 AND N3.

Explain that one.

I know, you claim you were protected N3, but I protected myself. Are you saying there is a THIRD Protector?

[TX AG 90]

So I don't believe TX.

If he were town and really believed his stuff, specifically the redundancy in town roles part, he would have went after strike.

In fact he would have went after strike earlier in the game. Why let town run around thinking strike is our savior?

Because TX is scum. He is setting up these two lynches, while hedging his bets on strike just so nobody looks too closely, and so he can avoid the suspicion and lynch that would undoubtedly come at him if strike flips town.

In other words, he doesn't want to lynch strike because if strike gets lynched and flips town TX will be lynched. He wants to delay that as much as possible.

Very well done pretending you were a newbie. But this is all way too skilled. You had me fooled for sure, I was struggling to read you because of the newbie looking stuff.

Vote TX AG 90

BuJaber,

Read my posts again. I have been trying to discredit blacky and strike without revealing myself. I was in a precarious position.

Maybe I should have come clean D3. I've already stated that. I thought I would have more time to set things up. I did not anticipate us losing 2 more townies over night.

I've already said I'm willing to put my coconuts in a vice and if blacky or strike aren't scum, then auto lynch me next.

Strike, are you willing to do that?

Fellow townies, when you lynch me and find out I am the TOWN Priest, will you auto lynch blacky and Strike? I don't mind being sacrificed if it leads to a town victory.

Also ask yourself, besides my tactic of holding off until D4 to share my info (I think many of us have done the same), what evidence do you have that I am scum. NOTHING, because I am not.

Meanwhile, a protector who claimed D1 goes 2 nights without being killed? That's suspect right there. He then has a chance to heal Mets and doesn't? That's also scummy.

Choose who is more believable. But, once again, if you guys F up again and lynch me, please auto lynch them next.

[chapcrap]

I do not understand why TX didn't protect someone else last night. If he would have died and came up doc, we'd all be finger pointing at SW anyway. We didn't need him alive to tell us once the mod revealed his role. He knew Mets must be telling the truth about being poisoned because he knew there were two poisoners and did nothing anyway.

I do not understand why TX didn't claim earlier. Everything he said today could have been said yesterday except the part about Mets not being healed, which doesn't make sense.

I do not understand why blacky flipping scum means that SW also has to be scum. If someone asks to be healed because of poisoning, why wouldn't someone do that if they had the ability?

I could buy multiple town healers in this game. Here is the thing that I don't get, SW thinks that someone saved him on N2, but TX confirms that it was not him. So, would that mean a third protective role? That gets more unlikely. So, is SW or TX lying? I almost think one of them have to be, but I do not know who right now. I lean VERY strongly that SW is town. Maybe the vision thing is him saving himself when he saved blacky? IDK.

TX, you look more like the scum in this that strike, IMO. Between the two of you, I'd lynch you first and whether or not blacky is scum has nothing to do with it. That is not a tell of SW's alignment in any way.

[chapcrap]

Sorry for the rapid fire posts...

Honestly, I feel like it’s in town’s best interest to keep TX and as both around. I think we can assume that at least one of them is a healer. Even if one is lying, I’d rather not make the mistake of picking the wrong one...

[Ragian]

EGMEOY Tobi.

+1 (except IGMEOY)

Nah... Just means Everyone Got Multiple Eyes On You

@TX, I read your posts. Now, it seems that you open up for the possibility that SW is town. What is all this about then?

@Sirius, no one cares about poison mechanics. Whom do you think is scum and why?

[TX AG 90]

Maybe you guys are right. Maybe I should have healed Mets OR protected someone else last night.

But now that all my cards are on the table and I have nothing to hide, here's what I am willing to do.

Aage had strong reasons to believe BuJaber was town. Therefore, I promise to heal him tonight and not protect myself.

If I die during a Night Kill, it won't matter because I will have preserved BuJaber who is likely town, that's an even trade and you guys will see my Role an no I am telling the truth.

The only thing I haven't told you yet is my species name and favorite food.

I am a Clown Fish and my favorite food is parasites.

There, you now know everything.

FP'ed by Ragian

[TX AG 90]

EGMEOY Tobi.

+1 (except IGMEOY)

Nah... Just means Everyone Got Multiple Eyes On You

@TX, I read your posts. Now, it seems that you open up for the possibility that SW is town. What is all this about then?

@Sirius, no one cares about poison mechanics. Whom do you think is scum and why?

No, I think he is scum. I'm just saying IF he is town and was played by blacky, it makes more sense to lynch black first. But, I still think they are both scum.

Here's the order I would rank them as a couple:

1. Both Scum - 80-90%
2. Blacky Scum and SW town- 5-11%
3. Both Town - 1-9%
4. SW Scum and blacky town (I don't see this one being possible)

[TX AG 90]

Maybe you guys are right. Maybe I should have healed Mets OR protected someone else last night.

But now that all my cards are on the table and I have nothing to hide, here's what I am willing to do.

Aage had strong reasons to believe BuJaber was town. Therefore, I promise to heal him tonight and not protect myself.

If I die during a Night Kill, it won't matter because I will have preserved BuJaber who is likely town, that's an even trade and you guys will see my Role an no I am telling the truth.

The only thing I haven't told you yet is my species name and favorite food.

I am a Clown Fish and my favorite food is parasites.

There, you now know everything.

FP'ed by Ragian

EBMOP

If I die during a Night Kill, it won't matter because I will have preserved BuJaber who is likely town, that's an even trade and you guys will see my Role AND KNOW I am telling the truth.

[strike wolf]

I visited Pika n1. Basically just didn't have any good reads and he had said something interesting day 1 hinting what type of aquatic animal he was that made me think it might be a town tell. My response pm from Razor mentioned something that might mean there was a busdriver involved as I lost my target and then found him again but the wording was also pretty similar to the Night end scene with bubbles being involved.

The mention of a bite is new with the poisonings as is multiple sets of bubbles...could mean mafia successfully went for food and gained an extra kill.

I appreciate the vote of confidence, buj but I do think we should be careful with the votes until we've had more info to sort everything out.

@tx: Being mafia doesn't protect me from being lynched the next day if JFM flips town doctor. I feel like you half read my post. Okay. Let's try to look at it this from a scum perspective again. Even if there isn't a second scum team (a theory you yourself advocate) to try to kill me when I claim doctor and it's found out that JFM isn't the doctor because what? We waste a role cop on him when we don't have reason to do so? Some other set of events? It's still dumb to counter claim town doc if you're scum because just because JFM isn't the doc doesn't mean that some other town isn't (it's literally one of the most common town roles in mafia). It's a dumb move as scum. For the move to make sense, you'd have to know there wasn't a town sided doctor and being a scum doctor does not mean there s not a town doctor.

I said I was protected on N3? Again i think you're half reading because N2 is the Night I stated that I had something happen that implied some kind of protection. N3 is the only night I didn't have some kind of flavor to how my night went down. Even then I don't really know exactly what happened night 2. For all i know my vision went dark n2 because Mets put the fish equivalent of a blind fold on me and stuffed me in the back of his van. don't know if there is another protector. I don't even know definitively that you are a protector. If there is than id feel pretty confident that youre lying. I'm just telling you what the mod told me and my interpretation of it.

No. I can't agree to being autolynched based on how Blacky flips. I don't anything definitive about his. I only know that he had indeed been poisoned. Were at a point where any mislynch could put us in a position we can't pull out of. If the mislynch ends up being me or any protective role for that matter were doubly screwed.

Unless there is a built in block mechanism to the action, killing doesn't stop someone from protecting. If it did than being able to protect yourself would be useless because the kill would override your action. It's good to know that I'm not the only one your e half reading considering this has already been answered at least once.

[ZaBeast]

I have to believe that my misdirection caused one of those deaths, probably Aage. Of course, I falsely thought that my misdirection on N1 caused blacky to be poisoned by Metsfanmax. My action was successful N3. I am waiting for the player that I misdirected to fess up, i.e. admit they were misdirected. If he/she does not, can we assume they are scum? Of course, we need more info about what the misdirected action was followed by a confirmation from the person acted upon. Otherwise.....

Seriously, stop it with the "I redirected someone so he must have killed last night" talk. Everybody who has an action is as likely to have targeted Aage than pika. Your action is in no way conclusive evidence of anything.

IF my target last night is scum and indeed killed Aage, then they probably would keep quiet about it. If they are town and weren't involved with Aage, then they should have no problem talking about it to clear their name. As indicated above, the mod told Mets he had been redirected, or at least he knew it by his outcome. Ergo, the person I redirected should know by one of those means as well. If they are innocent and keep stumm (I prefer the original German word, not the Yiddish one), then they risk getting lynched by the same folks who killed jfm and dakky.

So you think because you redirected Pika he should tell you what his action was? How does that make sense? Should we ask everyone to mass claim because there's a chance they targetted Aage?

@TX
- Were you notified by the mod of anything happening with your action on N2?
- Since your only reason (that I know of) for suspecting blacky is that he was supposedly healed by strike, do you believe scum strike could have healed town blacky for town cred? People are pointing a finger to strike now because he let Mets die, Wouldn't the same thing, only worse, have happened D3 if blacky died?

I also had two other factors to consider, 1. Rages claim was still up in the air, as long as Mets was alive, no one could prove that Ragians claim was true.

You said yourself (or many people did) that Ragian being passive poisoner was not alignment indicative. Was that information really worth sacrificing mets?

No bump mentioned. Someone bit me.

Who did you target last night when you were poisoned?

Didn't blacky talk about a pain on his side?
Chap, you think there might be 2 passive poisoners?

Can we talk a bit about skoff? As I said, I have reasons to believe someone stole my action N1. How likely do you think it would be coming from my target? You have a day.

[Ragian]

@TX, I just don't think going for blacky is the way forward. I'd go for SW if I were in your shoes.

@BuJ, what's with the quick vote?

[BuJaber]

No bump mentioned. Someone bit me.

Who did you target last night when you were poisoned?

Why does it matter? To reiterate ZB's question, do you think there are TWO passive poisoners?!

@BuJ, what's with the quick vote?

There was a wagon being started on TX.
I was showing resistance to it early on.
Do you have reason to fear a quickhammer? We should still be somewhat safe unless I've missed some deaths or miscalculated.

[Pikanchion]

TX AG 90: Your role's Title is Town Priest, correct? What is your Night Action Role listed as?

[BuJaber]

TX, I'm sorry I just don't believe you.
And even if I did believe you, you have bad reasons for suspecting strike wolf.
Him not protecting Mets does not make him scum. Especially when he admits it himself instead of coming up with some fake explanation for why town!mets died.
Also if you protected yourself every night then who stopped the scum kills every night? There's a town doctor/protective role.

Your logic is flawed and I think it makes more sense that you are lying than you simply made all these mistakes when you claim to have been working on this gambit for days now.

[Skoffin]

I have to believe that my misdirection caused one of those deaths, probably Aage. Of course, I falsely thought that my misdirection on N1 caused blacky to be poisoned by Metsfanmax. My action was successful N3. I am waiting for the player that I misdirected to fess up, i.e. admit they were misdirected. If he/she does not, can we assume they are scum? Of course, we need more info about what the misdirected action was followed by a confirmation from the person acted upon. Otherwise.....

Another thought, since Metsfanmax said he was poisoned and because strike wolf did not detoxify him, can we conclude that strike wolf is scum? And, if he is scum, then blacky must be scum as well, because he claimed to be detoxified by strike wolf?? Or, do I remember events wrong?? Just throwing all that out there for discussion. It's 5 AM here and I've been sluggishly awake since 3 AM, so the old bean is a bit clouded.

I was misdirected last night. Pushing for me to claim and suggesting our claimed Doc may be scum in your first post of the day? I thought your attempt to get Metsfanmax lynched earlier was simply misguided but pushing the same thing again—immediately after we get confirmation of how wrong you were the first time—is just scummy.

Pika, Pika, why so sensitive? Please read my posts again. No where did I mention your name. Yes, I misdirected you last night. And, I went to pains to say that my misdirection MIGHT HAVE cost Aage his life. I said it was one possibility. Why are you so upset? You haven't said anything in your defense. You have not given us one bit of information to show you weren't involved. Scum know who we townies are, so you have little left to protect, if indeed you are town. If we don't nail one of them today, this game could be over. So, you were misdirected by me. At least tell us if your night action was successful or not. I have admitted about three times that I was wrong about Mets, and did not revote him after jfm was killed. Doesn't that tell you something about my change of feelings about his loyalties? During this game, my comments seem to be ignored in large measure unless I get too close for comfort. I didn't vote for jfm or dakky, and when I realized my mistake from D1, did not revote Mets. I didn't need confirmation, I already knew. You reactith too much, I think. And, I am permitted my opinions, n'cest pas? I'm also allowed to vote.

UNVOTE
VOTE Pikanchion

Mate, your post literally started with "I have to believe that my misdirection caused one of those deaths, probably Aage. " Pika's response was perfectly reasonable considering, and honestly I am just as incredulous as he that you would again insinuate that your misdirection had a hand in deflecting scum to a target. I'm really not sure why you would think that, along with it being statistically unlikely that you pick the scum doing the kill (Twice! no less) but there is no other evidence that your action did anything other than "someone has died! Maybe my Night action target did it?". Like.. what?


@Tx your proposal is outlandish. First, apparently it seems that the mod has in various ways duplicated roles/actions by overlapping them, so I am no longer willing to assume there can't be two healers. But largely your whole idea hinges on strike and blacky preparing this whole "claim poisoned/healed" scheme to trick townies during the night before it was revealed that town has poisoners. If scum poisoned you then by default that means that scum planned to have 1 townie claiming poisoned and 1 scum claiming poisoned, and then have their doctor claim too. Why? what if no one believed there were two poisons and lynched one? What if scum were CC'd on the doc claim? What if town started wondering why claimed doc was still alive so long? This whole idea would have two scum players reveal themselves from D2, ON PURPOSE, tethering themselves to each other publicly and getting scrutinised on what they are doing each night. That's a really risky, and dumb, plan and I absolutely do not see Strike doing that. Possibilities I see are that 1. Blacky just lied about the poison, but he has nothing to do with strike 2. Blacky was really poisoned and strike really healed him and both could have alignments either way, but both still be telling the truth. And frankly I am more inclined to believe strike then you.
you accuse strike of being scum for letting mets die, yet you did the same thing. you asked where he used his night action instead when obviously he protected himself, and you should know he can do that since apparently so can you. However, strike has a reasonable stance to protect himself since he would be a fair scum target whereas you have no reasonable motive to protect yourself since you would be a low candidate for a scum kill. YOU should have healed mets if you have the ability to. Now, after all this 'evidence' you have of why strike is a scum doctor, your solution is to lynch blacky first who wouldn't prove the alignment of strike either way? Even by your own arguments you should be going for strike first as he would more likely be scum out of the two, so it makes no sense for you to pick blacky first and strike second. Unless you are either 1. unsure of your own argument or 2. plan to lynch strike regardless of how blacky turns out
Which only puts all of you "you can't prove I'm not town". "everyone should see I'm not most town" rhetoric in a less savoury context; you are essentially begging for any investigators to check you, and if you are a godfather then it only helps your cause. I'm not voting yet, but I don't trust you.

@ZB I used an action on myself N1

[chapcrap]

Skoffin, pretty much sums up my feelings again.

BuJ, you're trying to say there is a third poisoner in the game. Why would it have to be active vs passive? I think it sounds more likely that it's passive. I think if you're going to claim to be poisoned at this point, you need to say who you visited. You should say. Blacky should also say who he visited. My assumption is that blacky did not visit Ragian on N1 or he would have confirmed Mets with that. If you and blacky visited the same person, then that could be a second passive poisoner.

I think a third poisoner seems unlikely either way, but if you didn't visit Ragian, then what do you think happened? I think it could be a passive instead of an active.

[TX AG 90]

I don't even know where to start and frankly, I'm exhausted right now (RL stuff).

SW, I din't ignore the fact that you said you were protected last night, but anybody can say that.

ZaBeast, Blacky described is poisoning very well, it just happened to mirror Mets.

For everyone, I now regret not saving Mets. I thought scum were zeroing in on me D3 and I got paranoid. I should have played the odds, but at the time, the decision tree pointed at protecting myself vs. mets. I thought the expected value of a positive outcome was better that way (i.e., SW saves Mets or Mets flips scum or SW doesn't save Mets and shows scum colors, I survive the night, etc.)

At this point, I don't know which way to turn. If you look back, I did not vote for Pershy, jfm, or dakky. I had doubts on each that they were scum. However, at this point I'm going to start trusting my instincts. We have to use a high risk, high reward approach - no more playing it safe. We have NO concrete proof at this time of anybody being scum or town, but we can't keep flip flopping and going after individuals. We need to see who is working together.

I find it interesting that so many people are trying to convince me to change my vote to SW instead of blacky. If SW is town, they wouldn't want to do that. Do they honestly believe SW is scum and blacky is town? I don't see it. I have mentioned the outside possibility that blacky could be scum and SW town, but I still believe they are working together and I'm not budging at this time unless someone can give me good cause to change my vote to someone else.

At this point, I don't think I can say anything else that will make you believe that everything I have said is truth. It's up to you to decide.

I also think I mistake I have been making and everyone else is making is that, "I wouldn't have done things that way, they must be scum". We all have different pots of partial information, we all have different ideas on what we believe is scuminess, and we all have different methods of scum hunting. This differences don't make us scum, just differences.

So, fellow townies, if I don't survive the day or tonight, try to put on different shades of glasses going forward adjust your perspectives going forward or scum have this in the bag.

[TX AG 90]

TX AG 90: Your role's Title is Town Priest, correct? What is your Night Action Role listed as?

I mentioned it above, but I don't mind posting again.

I can Protect one player OR heal one player from the effects of poisoning. I can only use 1 Action/per night.

[TX AG 90]

SW, what is are our bonus abilities?

[TX AG 90]

SW, what is are our bonus abilities?

EBMEP

What ARE YOUR bonus abilities?

[Pikanchion]

TX AG 90: Your role's Title is Town Priest, correct? What is your Night Action Role listed as?

I mentioned it above, but I don't mind posting again.

I can Protect one player OR heal one player from the effects of poisoning. I can only use 1 Action/per night.

That is your "Night Action", I want your "Night Action Role".

[TX AG 90]

TX AG 90: Your role's Title is Town Priest, correct? What is your Night Action Role listed as?

I mentioned it above, but I don't mind posting again.

I can Protect one player OR heal one player from the effects of poisoning. I can only use 1 Action/per night.

That is your "Night Action", I want your "Night Action Role".

Healer