The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[Kamikaze Jawa]

Just FYI all of you, Thor is forum banned for next 3 days so he can't post. For violating forum rules from what I've read.

I think we may need another replacement or do we blindly believe he is town? Did he get banned himself in order to justify his role here? Maybe I was right after all. Too much coincidence.

Even I can see this is just Thor being Thor, and not deliberately trying to get himself banned :p I'm not sure why you've locked so hard onto Thor, since there is legitimately no reason to (certainly not at this point), unless you realised you got caught out and are now going down with the ship to in order to protect the other scum?

[Kamikaze Jawa]

By the way, LV what happens regarding how the votes work if we don't get a replacement for Ice Pack in time? Will it still take 9 votes to lynch?

[lord voldemort]

By the way, LV what happens regarding how the votes work if we don't get a replacement for Ice Pack in time? Will it still take 9 votes to lynch?

It will still take 9 to lynch.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Vote dakky.

[BuJaber]

Let's take a moment to appreciate how hilarious this game is now. It started slow but now it's very amusing.

Dakky is known for his far-fetched theories but this one is particularly crazy and I don't understand what he's trying to do nor do I know how to react to it.

ZB it's not just your vote. Of the people who posted after my vote nobody even acknowledged that I had voted. So I wanted to move on for now and come back to Mud later if I still find him scummy.

[madmitch]

Wtf ?? is going on in this game,Thort deserved a 3 day suspension ,he was actually getting quite mean and rude, I know he was declared town but the way is has been acting is weird, it was like he was taunting us , I am town and you can't touch me , I sure in hell don't like agreeing with Dakky because he is usually on my ass but maybe he has a point , shit I don't know , something off,I am not sure what to do ,

[Skoffin]

I'm not sure that Dakky is scum, I think he has just acquired Thor's tumour.

I'm surprised how quick this wagon took off and now I'm suspicious of everyone again. FSAGDTHWRSHT

[madmitch]

@ Skoffin @ Dakky are you having any headaches ?

[DirtyDishSoap]

I'm not sure that Dakky is scum, I think he has just acquired Thor's tumour.

I'm surprised how quick this wagon took off and now I'm suspicious of everyone again. FSAGDTHWRSHT

No one listens to you, for good reason.

Anywho, it goes without saying for any forum goers (other than pure mafia players) that Thor has been and is a troll. Just rather shocked it took a mod months to finally ban him for a short awhile for the amount of crap he pulls, but I digress.

The issue with Dakky is that he's getting a lot of heat and these last couple of pages feels more like a desperate attempt to get it off of him. It's pretty far fetched to think a confirmed town via mod announcement would get himself banned for gameplay purposes, and while I'm sort of use to Dakky voting for people for miniscule things such as joke voting, this is the one I think that he himself can't believe. The vote stays on until a claim is made.

[Skoffin]

There is no good reason not to listen to me, you floopy biscuit.

Dakky is being somewhat ludicrous, but it does fit more in line with how I remember him - before he rekt us all in Mass Effect as the cult leader.

Anyway, it has gotten unsettling quiet - I'd like to return to my standard "everyone state your opinions on each and every player, and pick your top 3 scummiest". kthx

[DirtyDishSoap]

Because you just called me a floopy biscuit, you shoe, that's a good enough reason.

Reason why Dakky wrecked all of you is because he pushed to lynch two scumsters and no one ever thought that Dakky could be the Thorian after that.

As for my top 3, it personally sucks:

Dakky - Way more insane on theories than usual, especially after the scrutiny/heat.
Beast - Just gut feelings
MM - Just gut feelings

Ragian - Godfather for sure.

[Ragian]

Meanie!

[FloresDelMal]

C'mon Flores, I was kind enough to point out your vote on me when it was seemingly not counted. If I was scum trying to save face, would I have really done that?
Antagonising someone is an interesting term, as plenty of great players do do that, but it isn't my preferred playstyle. I tend to work better working with the replies and then getting more of a clear read in my head from then on.
If I am winding someone up, it's because it was amusing me (see Thor earlier).

Regardless, the initial votes on me were because of my lore posting - which I ceased almost straight away, and my lack of discussion - which I'm now rectifying. Somehow I'm getting the feeling that isn't going to satisfy either you or Ragian though.

Fair enough my dear, and for that i am thankful, and even thought i can't speak for ragian or anyone else for the matter, i am ok with cutting you some slack as long as you share with us your insight, hopefully sooner rather than later, in fact, ATM i am not even voting you, just trying to poke you in what i think it is the "contribute more you lazy brat" direction, oh btw shape up, dakky caught you skimming the whole loVo affair

If you're looking for an obnoxious troll, Flora, take a look in the mirror. Besides being rude, you're also stupid:

sure, that's exactly why i got myself banned and now that i am on the ban topic, i dont think this kid had any design, i dont think him capable to orchestrate a ban on himself to take the heat off him, and there is no heat on him anyway, just a massive amount of eye rolling and face palming, and since his contribution amounts to white noise atm i don't think the game will be negatively impacted by his little break, in fact i think is a welcome change and althought i see why could it be tempting i dont think a replacement for him is needed.

How is that shady? I said you were unlikely to appear because I knew you were away visiting family with Ga7, and ga7 hadn't even appeared in our FB chat group during the week so I naturally assumed if he was not around that you would not be. The only reason I messaged him was because I saw him say something in the group all of a sudden so I took the opportunity to check on you. I think my actions there were pretty reasonable.
Well, clearly the "no one" part was a bit of hyperbole, however it is still the case that people were dropping away from that BW so close to a deadline and forcing us into a no lynch scenario.


Of course he is my godfather, it can't be because I thought the case was dumb and suspicious. I didn't harp on you being 'inactive' because I knew why you were away, I didn't harp on Masket for being inactive because I knew why and so on. There are other people just as inactive, whom I do not know why they are inactive, who seem to be given a pass. I just wonder why one person is so scummy for an action that other people are getting passes for. And in this case at least I know Masket will contribute; Masket always starts games slow but he makes up for it in the end, whereas someone like hotshot generally has low contribution throughout the entire game. If we had to 'randonly' pick someone based on very little reasoning, I'd rather take out the people that are less useful then take out people I know will become useful. I found Masket scummy early on in the game but the way people are acting as if he is some super-solid case when it was all circumstantial rubs me the wrong way, and the way the same reasoning is being avoided on other players is dubious at best.

ok ok, i am sorry if i treated you as the Phi Phi O'hara of this game, but you did make it sound like i was MM's hardcore lyncher and what not, and like no one ever supported you on your case against hotshot, and even if your comment was directed to everyone or no one in particular, you did voice it in a post adressed to me, and i did supported your case and stuck to my vote on hotshot til the end of d1 so it felt shady to me, but i get it that this whole privileged cast of mafia player above all criticism because "that's their style" can wear a gals nerves thin, i mean when i came back to mafia with the lion king i face palmed myself so hard that is a wonder that i didnt slip on a coma after so many concusions but i learned that sadly that's how things are and i am now just rolling with the punches, i mean, what else can i do? i suggest you to give it a shot, i am certainly frowning less since i got in the "such is life" frame of mind ^^

@ Flores sorry I missed your votes on day 1. It was the colour of green. I do make mistakes and I am human.

got it, sorry too, i was venting a little :B

Actually he wasn't lynched because he was confirmed townie. He had 4 or 5 votes at the time, all of which dropped off as soon as the mod confirmed he was in Thorin's Company. Had nothing whatsoever to do with being a jester or not. Which is why we're all now focusing on dakky, for trying to get the only confirmed townie lynched, which wouldn't be the case if Thor wasn't lynched due to being a jester.

if you didn't skim through your reading you should have noticed that i pointed at the possibility of him being a jester way way before that the mod spoke on his behalf, and that's why i never voted him, i only FOSed him, because originally jester was a role that had the power to end a game with his or her lynch, sure, in the later years the trend is to have a dual win together with the jester, but nothing prevents a mod to go the old fashioned way if he or she wants to spice things up, and that's why if i have serious suspiscion of someone being a jester i dont vote for them and instead i keep a critical eye on them, i hope this clears up things a bit for you, and BTW is the towniness of thor the reason you are pushing for dakky? because i can get how an annoyed townie could like to get rid of such a distracting fellow, i am voting dakky for LAL, as simple as that.

Anyway, it has gotten unsettling quiet - I'd like to return to my standard "everyone state your opinions on each and every player, and pick your top 3 scummiest". kthx

top scumsters ATM (which can change without warning and in no particular order):

Thor: no one is scummier than him, but he is sadly town, imo he is atm the biggest asset to scum by simply spreading chaos

Dakky: because of LAL and reaching

Hotshot: for posting mostly fluff even thought he is experienced and should know better

MM: same as above plus gut feeling, but i give him the benefit of the doubt because i value his insight when he is not keeping to himself

skoff: because you and the messages wrotten on the blood of your victims always hold a special place on my heart but since you are a smart cookie and i am wrong half of the time i think you are the root of all evil i dont see myself pushing for you anytime soon ^^

[BuJaber]

MM - Just gut feelings
.

Where were these feelings day 1? Sure would have helped. You really are just a D1 no lyncher to the core. Ignores his own gut for his principles. I admire that.

Thor most likely has innocent child role as stated by dakky of all people . He doesn't know who scum are or aren't any better than any of us. His vote won't matter much and I see no harm in the day ending before his return.

It is kind of interesting that all the people not voting (except for sam who I formed no opinion on) I have suspected at some point or another this game. So I don't know if I trust this, especially that I'm leaning towards scum for mitch myself but the fact that dakky tried to throw our attention on mitch if he gets lynched is a big scum tell in my opinion. And if he does flip town then we lynch mitch next because I tend to trust his reads on mitch. But also the other strong possibility is that dakky is diverting attention away from hotshot. He never once voted for HS in day 1, BOTH of them joined the MM bandwagon rather late then stuck to it until the end of day 1, plus his less active than usual posting in day 1 makes me suspicious of both dakky and Hotshot. So now that I've thought it through I see that a dakky lynch will be quite helpful.


So Unvote Vote Dakky and that makes my scum list:
Dakky
Hotshot
MudPuppy
Madmitch

[dakky21]

Well, being on L-2 I will make a full claim - I am Dori, brother of Nori and Ori and I'm vengeful VT. Just so you know that lynching me will bring one more life down the road, hopefully scum.

[Kamikaze Jawa]

Actually he wasn't lynched because he was confirmed townie. He had 4 or 5 votes at the time, all of which dropped off as soon as the mod confirmed he was in Thorin's Company. Had nothing whatsoever to do with being a jester or not. Which is why we're all now focusing on dakky, for trying to get the only confirmed townie lynched, which wouldn't be the case if Thor wasn't lynched due to being a jester.

if you didn't skim through your reading you should have noticed that i pointed at the possibility of him being a jester way way before that the mod spoke on his behalf, and that's why i never voted him, i only FOSed him, because originally jester was a role that had the power to end a game with his or her lynch, sure, in the later years the trend is to have a dual win together with the jester, but nothing prevents a mod to go the old fashioned way if he or she wants to spice things up, and that's why if i have serious suspiscion of someone being a jester i dont vote for them and instead i keep a critical eye on them, i hope this clears up things a bit for you, and BTW is the towniness of thor the reason you are pushing for dakky? because i can get how an annoyed townie could like to get rid of such a distracting fellow, i am voting dakky for LAL, as simple as that.

No need to be rude, I didn't skim my reading. My post was based on your exact words 'and BTW you dont lynch jesters, that's why you werent lynched'. He wasn't lynched because he was confirmed town. Now if you MEANT 'I didn't vote to lynch you because I think you're a jester', that's entirely different and still no need to accuse me of skimming for responding to exactly what you said.

The reason I am voting for dakky, started out because I was trying to apply pressure to force a claim out of him. Then he started pushing to get the only confirmed townie lynched. I get that some of you seem to be particularly annoyed with Thor right now but I still don't think it makes sense to lynch the one confirmed townie. It gives scum a free kill basically.

[ZaBeast]

After further consideration, dakky's vote doesn't make much sense with the role he claimed. If he had an investigative role and learned something about thor, I could have believed him more. On a lesser note, the fact that the name he claims is near the bottom of pika's dwarves list (the one he said he had good reasons to believe the lower you are, the most chances you have to be scum) doesn't help his case.

That being said, we're still at the beginning of the day, and talks of getting dakky lynched this early are misguided. I don't think everyone has had the time to shime in, and I'd rather wait for IcePack replacement before the day ends. I'd also like to hear from the other their top 3 scum picks. So for now, I'll unvote. I'm still set on voting dakky, but will wait some time so we can hear about what the others thinks.
My top 3 scum picks (note that my arguments are more detailed in my previous posts):
- dakky, for the role fishing and vote for thor.
- mitch, mostly because he seems to be throwing shade at thor.
- BuJaber, because his vote D1 doesn't makes sense since he thought the one with the most votes was going to get lynched. Also his post D1 where two of the options he thought of to end the day consisted of speed lynching targets feels scummy.
Honorable mentions:
- DDS for explicitely saying he thinks MM should be lynched over HS because MM is the better player of the two. btw @skoff, this looks like a good choice for you if you really think scum wanted to direct the D1 lynch to the best town players.
- HS and MM for infrequent posting

[madmitch]

Well, being on L-2 I will make a full claim - I am Dori, brother of Nori and Ori and I'm vengeful VT. Just so you know that lynching me will bring one more life down the road, hopefully scum.

Am I reading your post right? Are you saying that if you get lynched someone else dies also, is this a threat or warning ?

[DirtyDishSoap]

Unvote for now.

While the name checks out, I'm unfamiliar with the role.

[MudPuppy]

I'm not really familiar with the Vengeful VT role but here's a link explaining it:

Vengeful VT

I don't agree with the "play advice" from the link (in terms of suggesting dakky should lie about his role) but found it interesting:

Claiming Vengeful Townie is not advised (unless your actual role is Vengeful and Mafia-aligned). The effect of giving its faction a bonus kill is useless unless you yourself are worth lynching - otherwise it's obviously more profitable to lynch the player you would Vengefully kill while leaving you alive. Thus, Vengeful claims under duress are seen as grounds for a policy lynch.

If you are still unclaimed at three-player LyLo, consider deliberately getting lynched and using your vengekill on the hapless quickhammering scum.

I find his claim believable and think it effectively gives town a nice one-shot vigilante role. So, either town gets an extra shot after the lynch or Mafia will have to night kill dakky to avoid that, which prevents them from hunting a stronger power role.

As the play advice states, it might be better to just lynch the person that dakky would have taken his vengeance out on... assuming we believe him.

[Samlen]

I usually hear this role being called hunter but it's something. And @mudpuppy idk if we would want to follow dakky's advice if we believe him since he STILL has his vote on thor. Worst case scenario we loose a claimed town role AND a confirmed townie... And I still don't think it's likely dakky's scum since again this is sticking out his neck reeeeally far to try and lynch a confirmed town.

[DirtyDishSoap]

Well, its either lynch him and let him take advantage of his role or we don't lynch him and he gets killed later and is useless.

Its unlikely that now that he revealed that scum would vote him though. Im opting on the side of caution here, he still counts as a vote overall.

Fped

[Pikanchion]

Well, being on L-2 I will make a full claim - I am Dori, brother of Nori and Ori and I'm vengeful VT. Just so you know that lynching me will bring one more life down the road, hopefully scum.

I actually believe dakky21's claim, and that is why we must lynch him now, or lynch a player of town's choice who refuses to join the dakky21 wagon.

First, the Vengeful Policy-Lynch (specifically on claims made under duress) has strong reasons for existing in general: If the lynchee is lying then town kills scum; Chances are the bandwagon on said player already contains scum and lynching them gives a free kill to hopefully target one of these scum players; Not lynching the one who made the claim immediately pretty much guarantees that scum will not be caught by this player's kill, assuming they ever even get to use it; Not lynching immediately also forces the Town's Cop role (assuming one exists) to investigate the Vengeful, usually wasting one of their actions.

Second, I believe dakky21's claim because it was incredibly obvious he wanted people to vote for him, something I realised (and am genuinely surprised nobody who wasn't already voting for him brought up) the moment he made this post, let's examine:

Night 1 bringed no new info. We're practically in D1 still. No lynch will not get us anywhere, so I think people should say what they did overnight, and that may clear up this confusion while exposing scum in the same time.

So we start off with a scummy post, one I could imagine actual scum making should they think they could get away with it, what surprised me (and I must assume dakky21 also) is that so few people seemed bothered by this post, so he was forced into making another, scummier post:

If I were trying to pressure you

Which several other people already said they thought you were being overly aggressive. We can keep rehashing this over and over, but it's a moot point right now and I can't be bothered putting any more energy into it so feel free to continue if you like but I don't plan to validate it any further by responding to it.

At this point we've moved well away from putting pressure on dakky (or HS or MM), so do we want to look there again or find a new bandwagon?

Is it only me noticing or why do you try to bandwagon onto people since the very beginning? Especially now, you're looking for a new bandwagon because there is not enough pressure on me? I get you're a new player, but going public with such thinking makes me only feel you're scum again. In mafia games, that's called a "slip" if you ask me.

Vote Thor

And not, this is not OMGUS vote, it's an obvious slip vote.

This post is deliberately scummy: notice how it is entirely written as if it is an OMGUS post against Kamikaze Jawa, yet the vote is for Thorthoth.

LoVo said this is his first modding of a game. That means it can include bastard roles. Perhaps one of the roles was exactly this - get confirmed as town while not being one (or really being, but with consequences). I don't see an other explanation. Going "for bandwagons" so direct sounds like he is really town and will bandwagon anyone, OR, he is happy he won't get lynched and can pursue anyone while being scum/3rd party. Yeah, the second one doesn't makes much sense, but just don't ignore the fact that might be his role. Something like Smeagol/Gollum. First an ordinary hobbit then a monster.

And that was his slip, I am aware it's a bit of a stretch, but don't ignore it completely.

Here is where dakky21 should have realised the "mistake" (of voting Thorthoth instead of Kamikaze Jawa) made during in the previous post, but they didn't, they doubled down as if the prior post had actually been about Thorthoth all along, which as I say it blatently isn't. Curious where this was leading I fanned the flames a little, dakky21 having chosen a lie ("lord voldemort hasn't run a game before, so Bastard roles are perfectly possible") which was bound to be caught given Skoffin was a player in multiple of the games I linked, and that this is an official game meaning the setup has been checked by a third party also, and there's no way they'd allow a confirmed town who wasn't actually town.

I don't recall lord voldemort saying this, and if he did then he would have been lying. You've been completely caught out here...

Guess I got mixed something up. Well, anyway, I'm not scum bro. I'll claim when I get to L-2, but I'd rather not get there.

dakky: You're fabricating straws just so you can grasp at them. This is pathetic. my god, man, think of your meta-reputation.

Says the person which never cared about his meta reputation in Mass Effect mafia. Stop your bullshit Thor, please.

This post—and several following it—were made to ensure we got to make full use of the eventual claim, as keeping two slots open on the bandwagon both makes a claimed Vengeful Townie more powerful, as town gets to decide who should be coerced into the last two places (see below), and because anybody who ignores this and quick-hammers (or in this case enables the quick-hammer, given dakky21 was explicitly worried about madmitch quick-hammering even as town) would be just as scummy, allowing dakky21 to just kill them with their free kill.

Beyond these posts there's nothing really worth commenting on, so where are we now?

• Anybody who has left the dakky21 bandwagon post-claim must get back on it, anybody who has not voted for dakky21 today should not join yet
  -Scum will want to leave this bandwagon, as will town who are unfamiliar with Vengeful roles, so while those leaving are not neccesarily scum, refusing to join post-explanation is scummy
  -Voting dakky21 of your own accord at this point is tantamount to attempted suicide, so yeah, don't
• We should have an unofficial vote for the last two places on said bandwagon
  -This allows town to elect who they think scummiest to the list of players for dakky21 to direct their free kill at
  -Should somebody refuse to join we simply lynch them instead, and should dakky21 survive the following night we do the exact same thing for the final slot(s) on the bandwagon tomorrow
  -For this I propose we use one of the following two voting systems:
  
  
  • A two-stage majority system (Normal Mafia-style Vote)
    -Everybody places votes as normal for a mafia game (except with unofficial votes, we'd pick another colour, say magenta or orange given the limited pool of legible colours not already reserved by the mod or already occupied by Skoffin [thanks Skoffin :3])
    -Votes and unvotes will be made as usual until a majority is reached for one candidate
    -Once somebody reaches the lynching threshold they must join the dakky21 bandwagon or be voted off with real votes
    -We then wipe the unofficial vote count and begin again for the second place
  • A plurality system (First-Past-the-Post Vote)
    -Everybody makes one unofficial vote for the player they believe scummiest
    -These votes should take place during a voting period, during which no discussion is allowed (with a period of discussion having been held beforehand)
    -The top two overall must join the dakky21 bandwagon
    -An automatic runoff election between tied candidates will be held if required
  The advantage of the majority system is it's more similar to normal voting for this game, a lot simpler, and can continue if somebody becomes inactive, the advantage of the seond system is I believe it would give us more information (everybody being forced to make a vote at the same time), helps prevent bandwagoning to some degree, and should be a lot quicker to perform

[ZaBeast]

Now that you mention it, it does makes sense and that's very likely the best (and only) explanation for dakky's behaviour. What I disagree with, though, is the idea we should lynch him anyways. If what dakky said is true, and it very much makes sense that it would be, given pika's explanation, lynching him
1) would get us one less townie (and as it explains so well his behaviour, imo dakky is pretty close to a confirmed townie)
2) would move the choice of the target from the entire town to only dakky (his last vig shot was awesome, but I don't think it's necessary to try our luck again).
3) I don't think there are as many scums as you'd think in this wagon (see last paragraph).
But as pika points out, since anyone jumping on the wagon now is basically asking to die, I'll vote dakky until we decide what to do with that. Now, obviously, the idea of the vote has some merit, and if we are to go this way, I would rather go with the two-stage majority system (option 1), since
1) we have plenty time while we wait for the replacement. I still think we shouldn't end the day before he arrives;
2) people are not online at the same time, so I still believe there could be bandwagonning from the ones that vote later if we go for option 2, as they will see the previous votes and will have additionnal power to direct the result the way they want by knowing which votes can actually make a difference (the ones with the most votes) and the ones who won't (the ones with the least/no votes). I could be convinced by option 2 if there was a way to make a secret vote, for instance by pming the vote to an outsider who would then post them here once he received them all, but I would guess that's not allowed? (as per the rule about only discussing the game in this thread)
Now about the votes that already are here, I believe dakky made it too easy. For a townie, it makes sense to vote for someone as (unexpectedly) scummy as dakky was. For a scum, it actually makes sense to not vote dakky, since it is likely enough players would have joined anyways, and it would make them (the scum) less scummy. I'm not saying there are not scums in this wagon, but I don't think there are as many as you would think. I agree scum could well join the wagon though, as there are not much scum tells to join such a case, as he was so blatantly scummy. A bit like the thor's case on D1, I don't think voting for someone that was acting that scummy can give much weight to anyone's scum readings.

[dakky21]

But as pika points out, since anyone jumping on the wagon now is basically asking to die, I'll vote dakky until we decide what to do with that.

So you are basically asking to be killed with voting me? ?!