roconnor & jlduff [Cleared/Noted]

[MasterGuns]

Accused:

roconnor
jlduff




The accused are suspected of:

Being Multis
Conducting Secret Diplomacy




Game number(s):

Game 3624182




Comments: Please read the Game Log and Game chat, but it appears to be obvious Secret Diplomacy. Thank you, Masterguns

[roconnor]

Not a secret. Please see game chat logs:

2008-11-25 18:44:12 - jlduff: i have 10 chickens and a cow to offer for peace between our peoples.
2008-11-26 21:32:46 - roconnor: A fine offer. I will take it. In return I will give you a fine turkey.

[gcwca_4_life]

Not a secret. Please see game chat logs:

2008-11-25 18:44:12 - jlduff: i have 10 chickens and a cow to offer for peace between our peoples.
2008-11-26 21:32:46 - roconnor: A fine offer. I will take it. In return I will give you a fine turkey.

Have the cow butchered, and I'll take it. And just to let you know, it might be best to put things in ways everyone in the game can understand to try and keep away from problems like this.

[roconnor]

I agree - in hindsight perhaps a more clear statement would have been better. Diplomacy and wit don't mix?

However in this case during the game the following was also known:

1. 2009-01-25 23:10:25 - MasterGuns: btw Red, your 4 kills so far in this game are very impressive. nice work
2009-01-26 20:09:21 - jlduff: I had a lot of help fyi

2. As shown in the log - Red and I took out 3 players with exactly the same tactic. I attacked first, he then followed up and took the player out.

[MasterGuns]

I agree - in hindsight perhaps a more clear statement would have been better. Diplomacy and wit don't mix?

However in this case during the game the following was also known:

1. 2009-01-25 23:10:25 - MasterGuns: btw Red, your 4 kills so far in this game are very impressive. nice work
2009-01-26 20:09:21 - jlduff: I had a lot of help fyi

2. As shown in the log - Red and I took out 3 players with exactly the same tactic. I attacked first, he then followed up and took the player out.

1. I complimented "Red" before I was aware he was receiving deliberate help from another player to team up and kill each of those players.

2. YES, your cow trading conversation did Not appear to be a truce in the game log......... HOWEVER, Having 2 players team up early in an 8 player game to systematically kill off every other player is extremely cheap tactical play and should not be allowed in NON-team games. Even if it is currently not stated in the rule book. That is an unfair advantage that no one can defend against unless they team up with another player to combat your cheap tactics. To do that you might as well start a doubles team game so at least the other players have a chance to prepare for your joint ambush.

[Woodruff]

Accused:
roconnor
jlduff
The accused are suspected of:
Being Multis
Conducting Secret Diplomacy
Game number(s):
Game 3624182
Comments: Please read the Game Log and Game chat, but it appears to be obvious Secret Diplomacy. Thank you, Masterguns

Meanwhile, this MasterGuns fellow is running from active game to active game for jlduff (and I can only presume also roconnor's) making statements about jlduff in the game chat. Not being part of those games, I believe this could easily be construed as abuse or harassment. For instance, game numbers Game 4136376 , Game 4165419 and Game 4165414.

[roconnor]

Oh dear, he is doing to all of my games as well. It amazes me what some people find the time to do.

I think this is in clear violation of:
Chats of Games you are not in

* It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.

Can someone tell me should I create a new Abuse report for this, or will this thread suffice?

[Woodruff]

Oh dear, he is doing to all of my games as well. It amazes me what some people find the time to do.
I think this is in clear violation of:
Chats of Games you are not in
* It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.
Can someone tell me should I create a new Abuse report for this, or will this thread suffice?

To keep things on-topic and neat and tidy for the moderators, you probably should (I probably should have).

[MasterGuns]

Oh dear, he is doing to all of my games as well. It amazes me what some people find the time to do.
I think this is in clear violation of:
Chats of Games you are not in
* It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.
Can someone tell me should I create a new Abuse report for this, or will this thread suffice?

To keep things on-topic and neat and tidy for the moderators, you probably should (I probably should have).

MasterGuns reply:
I believe it is questionable if my (Non-threatening) warning to other players should be conceived as spamming or trolling. I did not leave more than one message in any of this players games and my comment was not vulgar or offensive in nature. The message I did leave was a simple warning to other players that these two players violated the rules of secret diplomacy. This is the actual Rule as stated in the Rules section:

Rule #2: No secret diplomacy

Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand.

Therefore using coded messages (as both players clearly did in the game chat) is a clear violation of this rule#2.

[Woodruff]

Oh dear, he is doing to all of my games as well. It amazes me what some people find the time to do.
I think this is in clear violation of:
Chats of Games you are not in
* It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.
Can someone tell me should I create a new Abuse report for this, or will this thread suffice?

To keep things on-topic and neat and tidy for the moderators, you probably should (I probably should have).

MasterGuns reply:
I believe it is questionable if my (Non-threatening) warning to other players should be conceived as spamming or trolling. I did not leave more than one message in any of this players games and my comment was not vulgar or offensive in nature. The message I did leave was a simple warning to other players that these two players violated the rules of secret diplomacy. This is the actual Rule as stated in the Rules section:

Rule #2: No secret diplomacy
Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand.
Therefore using coded messages (as both players clearly did in the game chat) is a clear violation of this rule#2.

I certainly agree that (at least, from what I've witnessed personally), your posts were not vulgar nor offensive in nature. However, the fact of the matter is that they DID NOT voilate the rules of secret diplomacy. Quite honestly, I look at what they posted and it seemed unavoidably clear what they were saying. So your running around to all of their games is clearly (to me) badmouthing them unwarrantedly. Granted, this is just my opinion and I'm certainly not "official" in any way.

[MasterGuns]

Oh dear, he is doing to all of my games as well. It amazes me what some people find the time to do.
I think this is in clear violation of:
Chats of Games you are not in
* It is typically advised to not post in the chats of games you are not playing. If you do wish to post in another player's game, please keep your comments limited to a Good Luck comment or a quick question. Spamming or trolling other player's games is not allowed.
Can someone tell me should I create a new Abuse report for this, or will this thread suffice?

To keep things on-topic and neat and tidy for the moderators, you probably should (I probably should have).

MasterGuns reply:
I believe it is questionable if my (Non-threatening) warning to other players should be conceived as spamming or trolling. I did not leave more than one message in any of this players games and my comment was not vulgar or offensive in nature. The message I did leave was a simple warning to other players that these two players violated the rules of secret diplomacy. This is the actual Rule as stated in the Rules section:

Rule #2: No secret diplomacy
Any form of diplomatic discussion between opponents must be posted in the game chat in English or in a language that all opponents understand.
Therefore using coded messages (as both players clearly did in the game chat) is a clear violation of this rule#2.

I certainly agree that (at least, from what I've witnessed personally), your posts were not vulgar nor offensive in nature. However, the fact of the matter is that they DID NOT voilate the rules of secret diplomacy. Quite honestly, I look at what they posted and it seemed unavoidably clear what they were saying. So your running around to all of their games is clearly (to me) badmouthing them unwarrantedly. Granted, this is just my opinion and I'm certainly not "official" in any way.

Well Woodruff, we are all entitled to our own opinion, however the fact of the matter is that they DID Violate the rules of secret Diplomacy. Quite honestly, I played in the game that they used "a language that NOT all opponents understood" the fact that you, who did not even play in the game with the players I have accused, is completely irrelevant. The Rule is stated clearly and the fact that the conversation is not in clear English language to even one opponent is a violation of Rule #2. If we really want to get nit picky we can also ask the other 4 players who were killed off earlier in the game by this unclear treaty and take testimonials from them as well. But this posting of cheating to the mods was to make sure the accused players are aware that what they did was against the rules and that they should not repeat their actions. If the mods also feel as though my responsive actions were in uncalled for I'm sure they will advise me as such.

[roconnor]

MasterGuns,

When you replied to red showing you the agreement that we made back in November in chat you responded:
2009-02-06 17:06:41 - MasterGuns: that is bullshit to have two players team up for the entire game to systematically kill off every othe rplayer
2009-02-06 17:08:46 - MasterGuns: i'm not sure if that type of cheap play is allowed but I wil make sure everyone who plays either of you is well aware
2009-02-06 17:13:12 - MasterGuns: and im sorry if other players add you to thier foe list for me making them aware of how cheapo the both of you play ;`)

I took that to mean that you understood the agreement once you were reminded of it. However you still thought that teaming up early was not "fair" play. Several hours later (presumably after you read all the rules) you say that you did not understand the message and that it was in code. Your statements seems inconsistent to me.

I am not sure how "... offer for peace between our peoples ... roconnor: A fine offer. I will take it. ..." is code.

If you feel it was cheap play fair enough, but please retract your claim that we abused by multi or secret alliance. I don't think there is any evidence of either.

As you suggest we need to wait to see judgment from the admins.

[lancehoch]

Looking through the chat and game log, it is pretty apparent that roconnor and jlduff made an alliance in the game chat. This was on November 25th, over two months ago. Since that time, roconnor assisted jlduff in making at least two of the four kills in the game. Neither player has attacked the other since they agreed to their truce. I will mark this [Noted] due to the odd language used in making the agreement. Please make alliance agreements in plain language so that it is easier for others to understand. Also, they are Cleared of being multis with one another.

[MasterGuns]

Looking through the chat and game log, it is pretty apparent that roconnor and jlduff made an alliance in the game chat. This was on November 25th, over two months ago. Since that time, roconnor assisted jlduff in making at least two of the four kills in the game. Neither player has attacked the other since they agreed to their truce. I will mark this [Noted] due to the odd language used in making the agreement. Please make alliance agreements in plain language so that it is easier for others to understand. Also, they are Cleared of being multis with one another.

Fair enough, I still hold strong to what I believe on this, but the mods have spoken and a warning on both sides is fair. I think we both got each others message and thus I retract my claim of possible multis and as far as the secret alliance is concerned, I shall agree that even though it was not completely clear that both players did at least attempt to make their alliance known. I would like to add that even though both players are cleared, that the style of play whereas two players team up in a multi player game to systematically eliminate other players is still considered in my opinion to be cheap play and both players shall remain on my foe list as they do appear to recognise how their style of play is very unfair to other players in a non-team game.

Thanks for resolving this Lance,
MasterGuns

[HannibalSmith]

Cleared????

You guys cleared these two??????????????????

Game 3964368

They are doing it again and with no "open deal" in game chat. The duo has been peacefully sharing S. America (yes sharing a continent meaning they don't even know how to cheat right). Red is more concerned with me pulling out of Maghreb then dealing with green or the game leader who happens to be holding a continent and six bonuses...

[lancehoch]

Cleared????

You guys cleared these two??????????????????

Game 3964368

They are doing it again and with no "open deal" in game chat. The duo has been peacefully sharing S. America (yes sharing a continent meaning they don't even know how to cheat right). Red is more concerned with me pulling out of Maghreb then dealing with green or the game leader who happens to be holding a continent and six bonuses...

roconnor is not involved in the game that you have linked.

[MasterGuns]

Although cleared their should be a forum where you can list players who play VERY CHEAP! forming an alliance early in an 8 player game gave these two an unfair advantage that doesn't give the other players a chance unless everyone pairs up to combat the alliance.

[SirSebstar]

which is exactly what you should do once alliances start to form...
If it is done openly, it should even be encouraged. feel free to leave your opponants bad ratings if you feel that is appropriate