C.C. rule infocesment seems to be falling apart

[stahrgazer]

why are you spreading these lies? this is not true.....

It's not a lie, it's true. Or are you suggesting that people shouldn't take what admin's say, seriously?

[hwhrhett]

1) Hitting thread after thread informs anyone else that the action is considered misbehavior.
2) I see not much difference between "noted" and "warned" when the person was told to stop or else...
3) The individual does diversify his games *some*
4) People continue to recommend those settings to anyone to avoid other problems with games on the site, which means that any other individual could be "noted" and told to stop or else... so they can either "note" the concern or ignore it and wait to be officially "noted" by admin.
5) Has nothing whatsoever to do with game chat.

who was told to stop or else? and where? because i cant find it... i think you misunderstood something someone has said...

p.s. noted still means nothing. and you cant be angry that nothing was done to me when i called you a 'retard' because my case was merely 'noted'. but then claim now that 'noted' means the same as 'busted' your just intentionally being a douche.

EDIT:

p.s. i heard that bjc23 was really just zsp's new multi anyway.....

[owenshooter]

p.s. i heard that bjc23 was really just zsp's new multi anyway.....

ditto... but that is nowhere near as bad as DM just being the most clever man on the forums... hell, the
first rule of CC is only being broken, what is the big deal? multis are so, yesterday.-0

[hwhrhett]

p.s. i heard that bjc23 was really just zsp's new multi anyway.....

ditto... but that is nowhere near as bad as DM just being the most clever man on the forums... hell, the
first rule of CC is only being broken, what is the big deal? multis are so, yesterday.-0

probably is just lack of proof, because most of those that become privy to such information will defend the guilty party. but i mean for it to get to me it must be near common knowledge at this point. i filed an e-ticket last night to report him. of course since all my evidence is stuff people told me, then there probably isnt much evidence overall. but ive done my part!

p.s. im glad dm is gone, my limit for douchebaggery limits to about you owen, anyone past that is trash in my book... but your not near the douchebag you once were, congrats on the turn-around...

[b.k. barunt]

Stahr, I know you've been unhappy (as am I) with the lack of what we see as proper action being taken against game-chat-abusers, but hitting thread-after-thread with this really isn't going to help.

Glad i read this. I already have you tattling to the mods about my forum posts, and i notice you've been in at least 2 of my games - looking for something to scream on? Welcome to my foes list.


Honibaz

[stahrgazer]

1) Hitting thread after thread informs anyone else that the action is considered misbehavior.
2) I see not much difference between "noted" and "warned" when the person was told to stop or else...
3) The individual does diversify his games *some*
4) People continue to recommend those settings to anyone to avoid other problems with games on the site, which means that any other individual could be "noted" and told to stop or else... so they can either "note" the concern or ignore it and wait to be officially "noted" by admin.
5) Has nothing whatsoever to do with game chat.

who was told to stop or else? and where? because i cant find it... i think you misunderstood something someone has said...

p.s. noted still means nothing. and you cant be angry that nothing was done to me when i called you a 'retard' because my case was merely 'noted'. but then claim now that 'noted' means the same as 'busted' your just intentionally being a douche.

EDIT:

p.s. i heard that bjc23 was really just zsp's new multi anyway.....

hrett, you make a habit of flaming, going off-topic, have problems reading, misinterpret truths, twist occurrences, and mis-state others' words; but nothing will be done to you cuz you lick the right ppl in the right places.

1) If a guy is a multi, the guy should be dealt with as a multi; not for creating a bunch of games in a style that others recommend people play, just because others besides high ranks join the games.
2) If someone "suspects" he's a multi, the admin should get proof, then see item 1.
3) Telling someone to start creating other game styles because creating 5-player esc fs attracts nr's is the same as telling them to stop creating 5-player esc fs.

[clapper011]

hwhrhett, stahrgazer I suggest the both of you place each other on foe list. And If you feel (stahrgazer) that the admin or moderator was in the wrong (based on facts not just hearsay) then you or the member in question should open up an e-ticket. Now please get back on topic guys/gals. thanks

[PLAYER57832]

so if a player is well like that person does not have to follow the rules any more? is that what you are saying?

I would say the debate is more over just what "well liked" means and who , exactly has the right to dictate what goes on.

I don't think I am the only one who notices that it often matters more who you piss off than what you actually say. Similarly, the kinds of views held seem to matter as much or more than how they are phrased. I don't necessarily blame admin. If they get 50 complaints on one person and 2 on someone else, then its natural they will respond more quickly or are more likely to respond to the 50.

BUT that means that, to be frank, a group of thin-skinned and frankly narrow minded individuals are effectively deciding who does and who does not get banned.

I, too get tired of idiotic rambling and nonsensical harangues. Ditocoaf formed a seperate forum specifically to allow those of us who wish to debate even controversial stuff without getting at each other's throats (except in good debate context) or being overrun by spam, vulgarity, etc. Yet, if people get banned, they cannot come there, either.

I find it highly ironic that BK got banned for his comment and yet captaincrazy (and BES before, the same person) was only banned because he was found to be a multi. I fully admit/agree that BK went a bit overboard, though I have never seen him "dish out" to people who don't respond in kind. Captaincrazy, however would launch into all sorts of plain idiocy and outright harassment simply because someone such as I just did not agree with his position.

I never filed a complaint because I can deal with him. When I got too irritated, I simply stayed away from his posts for a time.

Yet, that is the irony. Either those of us who ARE more mature, ARE more tolerant wind up having to become whining tattlers or the forums become dictated by those who already fit that mold. (and yes, I quite frankly would put BK in that realm -- you read his posts, he has his opinions, but generally stays out of the "gutter" unless someone else goes there first)

I have a feeling the real result will be an end to these forums. That is just too bad. I wish those of you who take such pride in leaping at every little comment with which you disagree would step back and think that maybe, just maybe other people have the right to their opinion.. not just you!

[Woodruff]

Stahr, I know you've been unhappy (as am I) with the lack of what we see as proper action being taken against game-chat-abusers, but hitting thread-after-thread with this really isn't going to help.

Glad i read this. I already have you tattling to the mods about my forum posts, and i notice you've been in at least 2 of my games - looking for something to scream on? Welcome to my foes list.

Huh? Have you lost your mind, b.k.? Remember...the world doesn't revolve around you. If I happen to be in any of your games (I seem to recall joining one where I noticed your name, but there are probably others), it's purely coincidental. I'm certainly not "looking for anything".

[stahrgazer]

Did you look at the guy's games? He does diversify some; not much, but some. He is very top-heavy in that sort of game; but I know others who are top-heavy in their preferred games. Eventually they move on, but this guy hasn't been on the site all that long, either, so maybe hasn't found another comfort zone to move on to, yet. But to 'note' someone just for preferring a certain game style is a sign of the site falling apart.

If he's a multi, deal with that. If he's overtly farming by inviting nr's to his games so he can beat them, deal with that.

The point I am making is, if this guy is noted (it's NOT the same as 'cleared') as a farmer for preferring that game style, then others who might veer toward that game style might be noted or warned. If others are not noted or warned for the same offense, then, gee, there's a problem with how the forum handles justice which is what this thread is about.

[stahrgazer]

hwhrhett, stahrgazer I suggest the both of you place each other on foe list.

The discussion was fine until hrhett chose a ridiculous way to disagree - by trolling and flaming.

And If you feel (stahrgazer) that the admin or moderator was in the wrong (based on facts not just hearsay) then you or the member in question should open up an e-ticket.

Whether I or the guy in question opened an e-ticket doesn't change the existing discussion.

Now please get back on topic guys/gals. thanks

I was on topic. Either opening too many of the type of game that most are STILL recommending ppl play to avoid other problems with games on this site is wrong for all - which seems a problem; or enforcement is sporadic - which also seems a problem.

[king achilles]

"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the New Recruits are more likely to deadbeat. Some players have been farming extensively - even sending hundreds of PMs to the latest members to get them into their games.

This is a gross abuse of the game. It gives the New Recruit "victims" a poor first experience and reduces the chances of them sticking around. As farmers move up the scoreboard it also harms the competitive nature of Conquer Club - the scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques.

In accordance with the desires and feedback of the majority of the community, our rules and as a new leaf for 2009, it is our New Years resolution to make Newbie Farming forbidden. Members who continue this practice will receive point resets and then progressively longer website bans.

This does not mean you will get in trouble for joining a game here and there with many new recruits. We are only talking about the systematic targeting of new recruits.

We have taken the following measures to stop Newbie Farming:

• For New Recruits, we filtered out game options from the join page if they reduce the chance of new players reaching their 1st promotion (see here here and here).
  
• We shut down any usergroups with a focus on Newbie Farming.
  
• We are sending individual warnings to the Farmers Guild and select other users who have practiced farming in the past. These should be arriving soon.

If you don't officially receive a warning, consider this it...we may have overlooked you once, but we won't do it again.

Thanks and have a nice day

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73745

Yes, we do not have control over who chooses to join our public games, but we have control on what games we create. Do we need to see a player who has played hundreds of games with the same map and settings and at least 90% of his games are with new recruits? Before it gets there, we suggest that you diverse your options in creating games from time to time so we can see different kinds of players in your collection of opponents and not mostly "?" or new recruits. You are already aware that new recruits have been joining your games and yet you continue creating the same settings. What if new recruits don't join that setting, would you still declare it to be your favorite? Regardless, whether it's a yes or a no, with the Newbie Farming rule in place, we all have to adjust to it whether we like it or not. The scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques

[oVo]

it just i notesed that it seems to me that they make different punshment for different cases
dose anyone else agree?

No, I don't agree and I don't find that the C.C. rule enforcement is in tatters either.

I don't perceive Warned and Noted as inactions taken by CC administrators but more like a caution (yellow card) to the players involved.The majority of posters here know exactly what they are doing "when they do it" so being held accountable for those actions should not come as much of a surprise. Life isn't fair and lots of people get away with things, but the "Why me? They did it too!" Is rarely a successful defense.

Personally... I have a strong appreciation for b.k.barunt's very direct, honest opinions and the shared experiences he posts here. b.k. knew what he was doing when directing his attention at Andy in the Soup Bowl and he also knew --as well as anyone who read it-- exactly what the consequences might be.

[b.k. barunt]

Exactly what the consequences "might be"? I told him to ban me - where's the might? To use me as an example isn't all that honest is it? I made that thread with the intent of getting band - which of the other victims did that? Like i said, not very honest.

The fact that the "perps" here know the rules does not make the rules right. If the rules are counterproductive and stupid they need to be changed, and the more people they ban, the more the members here will see how chickenshit these rules are. So i took a ban. Bfd.

We've had some kickass funny members on the forum whose posts were a pleasure to read, and because some whiners found their posting offensive, we're deprived of such enjoyment - that sucks. We have a tool here called the foes list. If you find someone whose posts are offensive, put them on your foes list, and you won't see their fooking posts!

That's evidently too simple for andy and lack - they love dem rules. Lucky us.


Honibaz

[stahrgazer]

"Newbie Farming" is the technique of setting up as many games as possible (either by starting or joining them) with New Recruits to gain easy points by taking advantage of difficult game options and the fact the New Recruits are more likely to deadbeat. Some players have been farming extensively - even sending hundreds of PMs to the latest members to get them into their games.

This is a gross abuse of the game. It gives the New Recruit "victims" a poor first experience and reduces the chances of them sticking around. As farmers move up the scoreboard it also harms the competitive nature of Conquer Club - the scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques.

In accordance with the desires and feedback of the majority of the community, our rules and as a new leaf for 2009, it is our New Years resolution to make Newbie Farming forbidden. Members who continue this practice will receive point resets and then progressively longer website bans.

This does not mean you will get in trouble for joining a game here and there with many new recruits. We are only talking about the systematic targeting of new recruits.

We have taken the following measures to stop Newbie Farming:

• For New Recruits, we filtered out game options from the join page if they reduce the chance of new players reaching their 1st promotion (see here here and here).
  
• We shut down any usergroups with a focus on Newbie Farming.
  
• We are sending individual warnings to the Farmers Guild and select other users who have practiced farming in the past. These should be arriving soon.

If you don't officially receive a warning, consider this it...we may have overlooked you once, but we won't do it again.

Thanks and have a nice day

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=73745

Yes, we do not have control over who chooses to join our public games, but we have control on what games we create. Do we need to see a player who has played hundreds of games with the same map and settings and at least 90% of his games are with new recruits? Before it gets there, we suggest that you diverse your options in creating games from time to time so we can see different kinds of players in your collection of opponents and not mostly "?" or new recruits. You are already aware that new recruits have been joining your games and yet you continue creating the same settings. What if new recruits don't join that setting, would you still declare it to be your favorite? Regardless, whether it's a yes or a no, with the Newbie Farming rule in place, we all have to adjust to it whether we like it or not. The scoreboard is meant to measure skill in the game, not "harvesting" techniques

Thanks for confirming it, achilles.

Personally, I dislike the decision that a player must adjust games he creates even if he's not sending out invite after invite; in other threads, people have requested a way to block "too low ranks" from joining games, but those are denied in order to give new recruits the chance to join the plethora of games that, if someone chooses to create, they are considered farming for having created when new recruits join them.

I am also concerned that, while this information on "what constitutes farming" is there (see it? I didn't make it up, kh just reposted it) - experienced players are still recommending to people that they create a bunch of games using some of the very settings that nr's happen to like - so will join in bunches - so could ultimately result in those people being considered farming...

I don't get the logic, because it conflicts:

"We will not allow public games to be segmented by rank, because that would discourage new recruits."

"We will not allow someone to continue making the same public games settings if those settings are not sufficiently discouraging to new recruits to prevent them from joining."

"Unless the player makes enough of the types of games that new recruits will not want to join, the player is a farmer."

But remember, CC doesn't want to discourage new recruits.

On an aside, the settings for the instance that brought this to light are not settings I favor, but I know a lot of skilled players who do favor the same settings; which is probably why skilled players are advising so many people, still, to use the settings.

But if it can get them noted/warned/ultimately banned for farming, should the setting still be recommended UNLESS one is a new recruit? That's how this "enforcement" is falling apart. It's almost like a trap..unless people are aware of it.

Like Paul Harvey would say, "..and now you know the rest of the story."

[Woodruff]

Personally, I dislike the decision that a player must adjust games he creates even if he's not sending out invite after invite

I agree. As long as the individual is not inviting newbies, he has no control over who joins his games and, even if he may believe it's likely that newbies will largely join his games, it's still out of his control. I cannot fathom how this can be considered farming. It may even be INTENDED to be farming, but how can you justifiably say that it IS when there's simply no way to tell? A player should always be able to START a game of their favorite setting regardless of who joins (again, as long as no PM/emails are sent out to newbies).

Joining games is an entirely different matter, of course.

[hwhrhett]

Personally, I dislike the decision that a player must adjust games he creates even if he's not sending out invite after invite

I agree. As long as the individual is not inviting newbies, he has no control over who joins his games and, even if he may believe it's likely that newbies will largely join his games, it's still out of his control. I cannot fathom how this can be considered farming. It may even be INTENDED to be farming, but how can you justifiably say that it IS when there's simply no way to tell? A player should always be able to START a game of their favorite setting regardless of who joins (again, as long as no PM/emails are sent out to newbies).

Joining games is an entirely different matter, of course.

if nobody but deadbeats joined my favorite game type, i dont think it would be my favorite game type for long....

[Woodruff]

Personally, I dislike the decision that a player must adjust games he creates even if he's not sending out invite after invite

I agree. As long as the individual is not inviting newbies, he has no control over who joins his games and, even if he may believe it's likely that newbies will largely join his games, it's still out of his control. I cannot fathom how this can be considered farming. It may even be INTENDED to be farming, but how can you justifiably say that it IS when there's simply no way to tell? A player should always be able to START a game of their favorite setting regardless of who joins (again, as long as no PM/emails are sent out to newbies).

Joining games is an entirely different matter, of course.

if nobody but deadbeats joined my favorite game type, i dont think it would be my favorite game type for long....

I definitely agree. But that decision shouldn't be made FOR you.

[b.k. barunt]

I play about 100 games at a time. I start probably 80% of them. I have never given a flying fook about rank, or i wouldn't play with noobs at all. Today i'm a private - corporal. Tomorrow i may be a sergeant or a cook - bfd. Noobs are completely unpredictable. They do weird shit. I hate playing with a lot of them but since i don't worry about rank it's not that big a thing.

Now i see these "farming" rules. WTF??? Are they really that much in love with their authority that they would make a rule like this? The answer incredibly is yes. So because i play a lot of games on the open board i could be somehow guilty of "farming" noobs? This place is getting stoopit. * * sees little noob heads popping up in his garden * *


Honibaz

[Bruceswar]

For once I agree with honibaz. You know the difference between most people who are called farmers and those supposed noobs they are farming? The so called farmers learned how to play this game and are now punished for being better than the next guy. If someone wants to play nothing but feudal then that should be their choice. People tend to start games so they never know who will be joining. Even if I start 40 8 man games on classic art the last 10 or so will fill with ?'s I am not farming, but it could look like so.

I do think farming is a problem, but CC is taking the wrong approach on it still.

[stahrgazer]

For once I agree with honibaz. You know the difference between most people who are called farmers and those supposed noobs they are farming? The so called farmers learned how to play this game and are now punished for being better than the next guy. If someone wants to play nothing but feudal then that should be their choice. People tend to start games so they never know who will be joining. Even if I start 40 8 man games on classic art the last 10 or so will fill with ?'s I am not farming, but it could look like so.

I do think farming is a problem, but CC is taking the wrong approach on it still.

Precisely.
Now a few of you are seeing why I added it as an example of "falling apart" to this thread.

[PLAYER57832]

For once I agree with honibaz. You know the difference between most people who are called farmers and those supposed noobs they are farming? The so called farmers learned how to play this game and are now punished for being better than the next guy. If someone wants to play nothing but feudal then that should be their choice. People tend to start games so they never know who will be joining. Even if I start 40 8 man games on classic art the last 10 or so will fill with ?'s I am not farming, but it could look like so.

I do think farming is a problem, but CC is taking the wrong approach on it still.

Precisely.
Now a few of you are seeing why I added it as an example of "falling apart" to this thread.

Add my vote.

If there is a serious concern about newbies and low ranked people joining games with high ranked people unknowingly, then perhaps CC should flash a warning .. somthing like "you are about to join a game with a high ranked player" or "playing this map with these settings is unusually difficult" Are you sure you still wish to join?

Along the same note, I began a suggestion that LOW ranked players (corporals and below) be allowed to start games that no one above a Sergeant Major would be allowed to join. That, too would help.

At some point, its just people's own responsibility to decide who they want to play. Like bk, I go up and down and all over. I play almost wholly "unusual" games, etc.

[stahrgazer]

If there is a serious concern about newbies and low ranked people joining games with high ranked people unknowingly, then perhaps CC should flash a warning .. somthing like "you are about to join a game with a high ranked player" or "playing this map with these settings is unusually difficult" Are you sure you still wish to join?

Unknowingly? hahahahahahahaha
C'mon, you know we've all done it: looked for a higher ranked player in hopes of getting his points on a game we think we can win; or on a game we hope to get lucky on; or for the practice against someone better in hopes to learn.

I just think it's rotten that this ruling essentially says, "Once you're above a certain rank, you can't play the same games anymore." I totally believe that's different than active farming.