INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[Sirius Kase]

I meant 5 or 6 other including mafia. And I don't expect him to limit his game only to roles I've mentioned. I've barely scratched the service. I expect him to be more creative than that.

Yeah, Bu, he's left a lot of wiggle room.

The percentages outlined by the mod are IF YOU FIND YOUR FAVORITE FOOD. If you find any other food it doesn't state what would happen. Probably nothing.

That's what I was responding to. The mod.

Not Ragian. The mod. That wording seems a bit accusatory against ragian.

Personally I think he's telling the truth. That's the subjective part.

The objective part is that he COULD be telling the truth. Nobody can deny that if they actually read every word razor has written

[Metsfanmax]

Mets why did you target ragian? I don't know why you'd want to keep it secret.

There's no way to explain this without claiming, and I don't desire to claim at this point.

Okay that's fine but you can still say if you town read him or you scumread him and the reasons for the read.

Regardless of what you did, if you are town, you either did it because you want to do something good for a townread, or something bad for a scumread.

Show your work. Let's see if you have good reasoning

No. This is fishing, I have no reason to reveal this information at this point.

[chapcrap]

That there is a passive poisoner. No passive poisoning N1. Only thing that points to it is Mets claiming poisoning. He didn't claim in his first posts of the day and it just doesn't make sense logically. You said it made sense because of the wording of the mod's PM to Mets... that's a big eyeroll for me.

Why was there no passive poisoning D1? How do you know that?

This was already discussed, but I'll say it again for skimmers. jfm claimed the poisoner role and he was successful on N1. Only one poisoning. If someone else was poisoned, they would have spoken up or died.

I agree, the passive poisoner is at least 3rd party. Wouldn't having 2 town poisoners (jfm and passive), be overkill?

I'm also pretty sure there is a scum poison healer. How else would they be able to counter a poisoning from jfm?

Someone needs to point to the irrefutable evidence of jmf being a poisoner. He was just a vig for all I can understand.

Already did that... before your trip. viewtopic.php?f=213&t=229849&start=950#p5093489

So, anyway, I'm the passive poisoner. I was hoping to have scum target me, but my play doesn't make sense (see above). I went for food both nights and bumped into someone both nights. I presume that's why blacky and mets were poisoned. So yeah, sorry about that if you're town. Not sorry if you aren't. I don't want to expose my entire role, however.

Way to jump in there when we were waiting on them to say who they visited... I guess they need to confirm who they visited on those nights... Except jfm already claimed poisoner on N1... Mets said you. Let's see who blacky says when he shows up.

Please everyone stop already with the bastard setup theories. Wild speculation helps absolutely no one.

YES PLEASE!! Good grief it's annoying and unhelpful.

What is your favourite food Ragian?

Good question.

I didn't see anyone say this, so I'll say it. Ragian could just be lying so that people do not visit him at night. The only way that I can believe there is a passive poisoner is if jfm lied about being the poisoner. But, he had no actual reason to lie at the point he stated that. He had reason to tell the truth to help town. At the same time, his play didn't make sense, so I don't know what to think about him.

That being said, even if Ragian is telling the truth, he's most likely not town. He's a third party. He already stated how a passive poisoner was not helpful to town. He decided to go ahead and claim because Mets said that he would reveal the information. If that's the case, then my main logic against Mets is flawed.

My suggestion is that we lynch Ragian (as a non-townie). If it turns out he is not the passive poisoner, then great, we lynched a mafia role. If it turns out he is the passive poisoner, then great, we got rid of someone who isn't town and SW can decide whether or not Mets should be healed of the poisoning.

[Metsfanmax]

I'm not up for voting anyone at this point. I don't have clear reads on anyone. Suspicious of Pika and Skoffin, but only that. Not confident Ragian is scum, and now that his role is known, he's not really dangerous to town anymore. Since we've gotten through two nights without a night kill, I think we can be patient and see what happens, rather than risk lynching town.

Vote No Lynch

[strike wolf]

I'm with Mets on the asking him why he visited Raglan being fishing. I'm still not 100% decided that I'm not voting met s today though I admit Dakky is starting to look like The more tempting option If for no other reason his play doesn't seem to advance town and the attempts to explain the game based on bastard kmodding are more distracting than helpful.

I believe Raglan is the poisoner and I believe this in part because I think I know of a player who visited him Night 1 (I said this earlier but I'll repeat myself since it seems to have gotten buried and unnoticed. My night 1 action came back as successful. However what I didn't consider at the time is that it could have been that way because of healing a poisoned person [after all I had little reason to think 2 people were poisoned and Blacky came forward as having been poisoned]. Furthermore, my night 2 result suggests that Blacky wasn't the first person I healed of poison.) But I also believe this because I don't see an advantage in Rage fake claiming that when he did if he was lying. Ragians actual alignment is questionable but I believe he's telling the truth about his role so for now I don't think he's a good lynch target. 2 poisoners does seem weird but at this point, can we really trust anything JFM said?

Really would like Aage and Blacky to speak up more but I get with the formers case, he's probably just super busy.

[BuJaber]

@Mets - I ask you to provide me with a read on Ragian and your response is to accuse me of rolefishing.

I like how you're delusional enough to not only think that you are confirmed town in our eyes, but that you have risen above the need to divulge your thoughts to us commoners.

Next time when someone mounts a case against you stating that you are not helping town to read you or that you are not trying to sort players, don't lie to our faces and claim that you have been doing so.

[Ragian]

Nice and quick vote. It's much better to rush a vote than to wait for clarification.

Are you planning on providing any then? I'm not the mod.

Also... What?

Before anyone cries wolf, I'm aware of the MafiaWiki linking from the psychopath role to the serial killer role. I was aware of that before claiming, too.

What don't you understand?

Someone needs to point to the irrefutable evidence of jmf being a poisoner. He was just a vig for all I can understand.

There is no irrefutable evidence.

Good. Thanks.

The intriguing part is that Rage saw food, but it disappeared. Does that count as finding? He paraphrased, so maybe we need a better paraphrase.

I'm not sure if that counts...? Well, I did find it, but it disappeared again. So yeah, technically, I found it :shrug:

Not sure what to think about Ragian. (Yes, he is who I targeted last night. No, I won't explain why yet.) He has clearly been breadcrumbing the passive poisoner claim, by asking for a vote on whether the passive poisoner should reveal themselves. But Ragian already suggested quite a while ago, when he proposed the vote, why passive poisoner is bad for town. So why did he need to wait for a vote? Was he just trying to get people on the record? It seems like something town could plausibly do, or maybe it's something third party/scum does to make it look like there was town support for them claiming. I've been thinking this over for a while (since I suspected it was Ragian) but I still have no conclusion on this yet. I don't think he is scum. I can't decide between town and third party.

I can reveal that I'm town if that helps.

Why would an honest person want to stop speculation? probably because the speculation is too close to the truth.

Because it takes away focus from what we want to do: Scumhunting. Look at what people do and what people say. If we're meant to figure out the mechanics of the game, then we will eventually.

What is your favourite food Ragian?

I don't know. It disappears into the darkness... Do you know what your favourite food is?

This was already discussed, but I'll say it again for skimmers. jfm claimed the poisoner role and he was successful on N1. Only one poisoning. If someone else was poisoned, they would have spoken up or died.

Nothing to do with skimming. I think you've gotten it wrong.

I agree, the passive poisoner is at least 3rd party. Wouldn't having 2 town poisoners (jfm and passive), be overkill?

I'm also pretty sure there is a scum poison healer. How else would they be able to counter a poisoning from jfm?

Someone needs to point to the irrefutable evidence of jmf being a poisoner. He was just a vig for all I can understand.

Already did that... before your trip. viewtopic.php?f=213&t=229849&start=950#p5093489

Not irrefutable evidence. Jmf was a town vig. That's all we know about him.

even if Ragian is telling the truth, he's most likely not town. He's a third party. He already stated how a passive poisoner was not helpful to town. He decided to go ahead and claim because Mets said that he would reveal the information. If that's the case, then my main logic against Mets is flawed.

My suggestion is that we lynch Ragian (as a non-townie). If it turns out he is not the passive poisoner, then great, we lynched a mafia role. If it turns out he is the passive poisoner, then great, we got rid of someone who isn't town and SW can decide whether or not Mets should be healed of the poisoning.

Based on what am I non-town? Don't give me that crap with me jumping in when everyone else says that I waited too long. Also, you can't lynch me as non-town. You can lynch me, however. So, let me ask you this: What do you accomplish by lynching me? Do you think I have played anti-town so far? Do you think that lynching me will help town win the game?

It's been nice to see people react to this. It's nice to see who gets out the pitchforks immediately and who actually thinks. I don't think my claiming (although in hindsight I would have liked to have done so earlier) is a bad move.

FP'ed by BuJ.

[BuJaber]

Sorry Mets maybe that post was a little harsh.

Can you just explain to me how asking you to tell us how you read ragian accounts to role fishing?

[Pikanchion]

@Mets - I ask you to provide me with a read on Ragian and your response is to accuse me of rolefishing.

I like how you're delusional enough to not only think that you are confirmed town in our eyes, but that you have risen above the need to divulge your thoughts to us commoners.

Next time when someone mounts a case against you stating that you are not helping town to read you or that you are not trying to sort players, don't lie to our faces and claim that you have been doing so.

Pushing others to reveal things about their role if you do not suspect them is generally rolefishing, even if it is just the target of their actions. Think about the usefulness of this information if blacky365 had revealed it: for town, we might get a lead on a role that exists only by hypothesis currently, and which could be of any alignment; for scum, one can now infer the type of role blacky365 holds by the target of the action and blacky365's stated suspicions or lack thereof.

The situation here is a bit different of course, but the two parts outlined are all that's needed to infer the general nature of a person's role, and you are asking for somebody to complete the pair. You are effectively asking Metsfanmax to reveal broadly whether they hold an offensive/inquisitorial or defensive role, what is your justification for this? -We can be fairly sure that Metsfanmax was not performing a Night Kill action as Ragian is still alive after all, so what reason do you have to ask for this?

I am not saying that Metsfanmax should never comment on Ragian again, but to comment on any read of Ragian developed before the start of this in-game day has the potential to be quite revealing.

—

Also... What?

Before anyone cries wolf, I'm aware of the MafiaWiki linking from the psychopath role to the serial killer role. I was aware of that before claiming, too.

What don't you understand?

I do not understand what the Psychopath and Serial Killer pages being considered synonymous on that wiki has to do with anything else posted in this thread at any point. You are aware that if your role is called Psychopath (the only explanation I can make of this) that you did not actually claim as much?

What is your favourite food Ragian?

I don't know. It disappears into the darkness... Do you know what your favourite food is?

Yes, it was in my role PM, as per the example role PM in the mod's initial post.

[Skoffin]

I do believe I have finally caught up.

I've decided to cut this post down from what I originally intended. I mean I could elaborate on certain players (mostly mets, slightly ragoo) determination to insist there was no case on jfm, but at this point that may be more pride than scummyness.

I amend my town list to strike only.

Serius posts a whole lot for a man that says nothing. He's gotten better over the last few posts, but he has been given a lot of leeway for being a new player when that particular style tends to be scummy. Bottom of my list for potential scum, however.

aage likes to pop in to tell us scallywags off, but otherwise isn't actively doing much. He came in on the jfm wagon last minute with an "obvious this guy is scum" post but only after jfm changed his claim a few too many times. Afterall, his vote kept him out of the same boat as mets - wherein mets is suspicious for believing jfm to be town no matter what despite there being nothing to warrant that.

pika - Likes to pop in, a bit more useful than aage however. Honestly though Pika is far better as a utility than anything else, as such it's hard to determine what he is.

Mets- Well as mentioned, he had absolutely no reason to so vehemently trust jfm is town unless he had knowledge that jfm was not mafia sided. The only way to know that is to either be an investigator or to be on team mafia. He is number 2, but I'd like to deal with number 1 first.

Blacky - he is my number 2/3, as I've mentioned before. But like mets, deal with him after number 1.

Anyway my number 1 is VOTE DAKKY Honestly Buj has already given most of the reasons why. Dakky has made a great show of talking nonsense, confusing the shit out of people, leading people away from him and more, but also something about his role claim is not right. And part of my reason for voting dakky is related to my role info (lol sorry buj)

Dakky has to go and I'll bet my life on it

[Ragian]

Also... What?

Before anyone cries wolf, I'm aware of the MafiaWiki linking from the psychopath role to the serial killer role. I was aware of that before claiming, too.

What don't you understand?

I do not understand what the Psychopath and Serial Killer pages being considered synonymous on that wiki has to do with anything else posted in this thread at any point. You are aware that if your role is called Psychopath (the only explanation I can make of this) that you did not actually claim as much?

Did I not say that my role is Town Psychopath?

What is your favourite food Ragian?

I don't know. It disappears into the darkness... Do you know what your favourite food is?

Yes, it was in my role PM, as per the example role PM in the mod's initial post.

f*ck sake. I'm an idiot. Yes, I know what my favourite food is (I just need to look in my role PM rather than in my night result PMs). Small animal prey.

[Ragian]

Dakky has to go and I'll bet my life on it[/color]

Dakky has to be eliminated? Why? You don't think he's scum?

[Skoffin]

He is scum. I am sortof counter-claiming him.

[blacky365]

What a fucking riot this day is.


Blacky, did you visit Ragian N1? NO

Blacky's been silent for a very long time. It has been the weekend and I always struggle to post.

Im lying in bed ill as f**k so been catching up and reading through everything...
I have made my position clear on Dakky and I do believe he has to go. Glad that this is now picking up some traction.
With rage... he needs to go next! nothing personal, but town or not, how can we have someone running around who poisons ppl?
I never could understand the usefulness of the 'passive' poisoner outing themselves... Correct me if im wrong, but shouldnt that be an automatic lynch?

[blacky365]

He is scum. I am sortof counter-claiming him.

Didnt see this before i posted... you gotta give us more than that!
you have been doing this all game and it is so scummy

[Pikanchion]

He is scum. I am sortof counter-claiming him.

Is this like when dakky21 sort of counter-claimed jfm10?

—

Did I not say that my role is Town Psychopath?

If you did I must have missed it and you must have misspelt it because it does not appear when using the thread search function, but anyway...

What is your favourite food Ragian?

Small animal prey.

Even if we are to take the view that the percentages listed by the mod only apply to when somebody does find their favourite food and it is possible not to find it: your own wording implies you did "find" food, "Then my food disappears." It cannot disappear if you did not locate it initially.

Further, how would this system work? Presumably the favourite food ties into the species assigned to each role, and I would guess then that those who die from the lynch or during the night in question become food. If this is the case then roles with species fitting the description of "small animal prey" were surely available both nights as the Leech and Angelfish are both small animals.

—

I never could understand the usefulness of the 'passive' poisoner outing themselves... Correct me if im wrong, but shouldnt that be an automatic lynch?[/color]

There is a well-known role, often called Paranoid Gun Owner or Veteran, that outright kills any who visit them on a particular night. This role is frequently Town-sided (largely because it can be so powerful in scum hands), but as Town it is often also considered negative utility due the likelihood of killing strong Town roles like investigative or protective roles. This role being modified to reduce its lethality, allowing those who visit to discover the cause, be able to relay that information, and be healed all reduce the barrier to this role being Mafia-sided, but they do not mean it is. I see the role—as claimed—not to be particularly alignment indicative by itself.

[BuJaber]

@Pika - I kinda see your point but I suspect Mets and I need to engage with him.
The basis of the game is to talk about reads and discuss reasons peoole give for their reads.
The circumstances of the game triggered his partial claim not any push of mine.
And SW or whoever needs to know if mets is even worth saving or we just test him by leaving him be and seeing if he dies.

Which could also confirm ragian.

[Ragian]

What a fucking riot this day is.


Blacky, did you visit Ragian N1? NO

Blacky's been silent for a very long time. It has been the weekend and I always struggle to post.

Im lying in bed ill as f**k so been catching up and reading through everything...
I have made my position clear on Dakky and I do believe he has to go. Glad that this is now picking up some traction.
With rage... he needs to go next! nothing personal, but town or not, how can we have someone running around who poisons ppl?
I never could understand the usefulness of the 'passive' poisoner outing themselves... Correct me if im wrong, but shouldnt that be an automatic lynch?

He doesn't, though, that's the beauty of being a PASSIVE poisoner.

Even if we are to take the view that the percentages listed by the mod only apply to when somebody does find their favourite food and it is possible not to find it: your own wording implies you did "find" food, "Then my food disappears." It cannot disappear if you did not locate it initially.

Further, how would this system work? Presumably the favourite food ties into the species assigned to each role, and I would guess then that those who die from the lynch or during the night in question become food. If this is the case then roles with species fitting the description of "small animal prey" were surely available both nights as the Leech and Angelfish are both small animals.

My wording is true to the meaning of the PM, so if you want to argue semantics, then I found (located) my favourite food, but I didn't find (got to eat) my favourite food.

You more or less end your post by saying that I'm most certainly not scum, but you're still voting me.

@blacky, my ill comrade, did you not get redirected N1?

[Skoffin]

Has everyone gone insane? Is that what's happening here?

[Tobikera]

I have been suspicious of several folks for some time. Ragian is one of them. I was wrong to target pershy on Day 1, although he was playing different from all my past experience. Now I see Ragian more defensive than ever before. Not proof of anything, just an observation.

However, two possible slips have attracted my attention. First, is the following exchange:
Pikanchion wrote:
What is your favourite food Ragian?
I don't know. It disappears into the darkness... Do you know what your favourite food is?

But on page 1 the mod says:
At anytime, anyone can waive their night action and attempt to find their favorite food.
IF you find your favorite food you have a:

30% Chance of eating it and gaining 200 CREDITS plus one extra UNIQUE night action, to be used during the next night.
50% Chance of missing your prey and looking like a fool (All will know you went for it)
20% Chance of becoming a night kill

Success will reward you FAILURE MAY MEAN DEATH. *Can only be won once, attempted many times


I was told what my favourite food was in my ROLE PM at the beginning of the game. I assume everyone has? Please let us know whether you know or not, without revealing what it is. Mine is "any colorful fish" which matches the large eyes and good eyesight of a squid. Why doesn't RAGIAN know his favorite food???

Second, Ragian has said he found his favorite food, but then it disappears. As stated by the mod above, the results, unequivocally yield "eat", "get laughed at", or "die". Plus, Ragian is a very good player, and he would not be foolish enough to go after his favorite prey two nights in a row with only a 30% chance of success. I fear our dear Danish teacher is lying. Until I hear convincing evidence otherwise.....

UNVOTE
VOTE RAGIAN

[blacky365]

What a fucking riot this day is.


Blacky, did you visit Ragian N1? NO

Blacky's been silent for a very long time. It has been the weekend and I always struggle to post.

Im lying in bed ill as f**k so been catching up and reading through everything...
I have made my position clear on Dakky and I do believe he has to go. Glad that this is now picking up some traction.
With rage... he needs to go next! nothing personal, but town or not, how can we have someone running around who poisons ppl?
I never could understand the usefulness of the 'passive' poisoner outing themselves... Correct me if im wrong, but shouldnt that be an automatic lynch?

He doesn't, though, that's the beauty of being a PASSIVE poisoner. perhaps passive is even worse, its a loaded gun with no direction and kills (or poisons) indiscriminately.

Even if we are to take the view that the percentages listed by the mod only apply to when somebody does find their favourite food and it is possible not to find it: your own wording implies you did "find" food, "Then my food disappears." It cannot disappear if you did not locate it initially.

Further, how would this system work? Presumably the favourite food ties into the species assigned to each role, and I would guess then that those who die from the lynch or during the night in question become food. If this is the case then roles with species fitting the description of "small animal prey" were surely available both nights as the Leech and Angelfish are both small animals.

My wording is true to the meaning of the PM, so if you want to argue semantics, then I found (located) my favourite food, but I didn't find (got to eat) my favourite food.

You more or less end your post by saying that I'm most certainly not scum, but you're still voting me.

@blacky, my ill comrade, did you not get redirected N1?

I was not told that i was redirected... this is purely speculation. Although, either way, based on the wording when i was poisoned, i believe i was not poisoned by my target but by someone else who bumped in to me while i was on my way to my target

Has everyone gone insane? Is that what's happening here?

Ha, I thought thats a given...
However, this is typical of your play... you say random shit when you should be explaining yourself...

[Pikanchion]

You more or less end your post by saying that I'm most certainly not scum, but you're still voting me.

I said your role claim—as you describe it—is not alignment indicative, how does that translate to you certainly not being scum? I voted because I don't believe your account of your own night actions so far, and I said as much.

[TX AG 90]

I'm with Mets on the asking him why he visited Raglan being fishing. I'm still not 100% decided that I'm not voting met s today though I admit Dakky is starting to look like The more tempting option If for no other reason his play doesn't seem to advance town and the attempts to explain the game based on bastard kmodding are more distracting than helpful.

I believe Raglan is the poisoner and I believe this in part because I think I know of a player who visited him Night 1 (I said this earlier but I'll repeat myself since it seems to have gotten buried and unnoticed. My night 1 action came back as successful. However what I didn't consider at the time is that it could have been that way because of healing a poisoned person [after all I had little reason to think 2 people were poisoned and Blacky came forward as having been poisoned]. Furthermore, my night 2 result suggests that Blacky wasn't the first person I healed of poison.) But I also believe this because I don't see an advantage in Rage fake claiming that when he did if he was lying. Ragians actual alignment is questionable but I believe he's telling the truth about his role so for now I don't think he's a good lynch target. 2 poisoners does seem weird but at this point, can we really trust anything JFM said?

Really would like Aage and Blacky to speak up more but I get with the formers case, he's probably just super busy.

How could you heal someone N1 the same night they were poisoned AND do an additional night action? That makes no sense. Let me know if I'm reading your statement wrong.

[TX AG 90]

I think we are spending a lot of time on the wording of "favorite" food. It was my assumption that was something to add flavor to the game, but not necessarily part of the mechanics.

I thought the mechanics were just the percentages that tobi reposted. I don't think WHAT your favorite food actually is has anything to do with game play (but I could be 100% wrong).

[Ragian]

You more or less end your post by saying that I'm most certainly not scum, but you're still voting me.

I said your role claim—as you describe it—is not alignment indicative, how does that translate to you certainly not being scum? I voted because I don't believe your account of your own night actions so far, and I said as much.

Right. Good luck.

[Spoiler=Tobi'sRant]I have been suspicious of several folks for some time. Ragian is one of them. I was wrong to target pershy on Day 1, although he was playing different from all my past experience. Now I see Ragian more defensive than ever before. Not proof of anything, just an observation.

However, two possible slips have attracted my attention. First, is the following exchange:
Pikanchion wrote:
What is your favourite food Ragian?
I don't know. It disappears into the darkness... Do you know what your favourite food is?

But on page 1 the mod says:
At anytime, anyone can waive their night action and attempt to find their favorite food.
IF you find your favorite food you have a:

30% Chance of eating it and gaining 200 CREDITS plus one extra UNIQUE night action, to be used during the next night.
50% Chance of missing your prey and looking like a fool (All will know you went for it)
20% Chance of becoming a night kill

Success will reward you FAILURE MAY MEAN DEATH. *Can only be won once, attempted many times


I was told what my favourite food was in my ROLE PM at the beginning of the game. I assume everyone has? Please let us know whether you know or not, without revealing what it is. Mine is "any colorful fish" which matches the large eyes and good eyesight of a squid. Why doesn't RAGIAN know his favorite food???

Second, Ragian has said he found his favorite food, but then it disappears. As stated by the mod above, the results, unequivocally yield "eat", "get laughed at", or "die". Plus, Ragian is a very good player, and he would not be foolish enough to go after his favorite prey two nights in a row with only a 30% chance of success. I fear our dear Danish teacher is lying. Until I hear convincing evidence otherwise.....

UNVOTE
VOTE RAGIAN[/Spoiler]

Dude...scroll up and read...also I'm not a Danish teacher. I'm an English teacher that happens to be Danish

Moreover, what you decide is a "good player" is someone who doesn't go out twice due to the odds. That's very narrow-minded and I'd expect more from you. If I had to waive any action, I may have not gone out, but the way I see it, I'm not worth enough to town as a PR to not go out. My bonus ability would be more useful to town than I am right now.

Lastly, you say that you've never seen me this defensive. I urge you to reread EVERY game where I have been attacked for stating the truth.

---

@Blacky, did you bump into something and then get a message that something didn't feel good or something similar? (Because I did.)

FP'ed by TX