The Hobbit Mafia [Town win]

[BuJaber]

Nick still hasn't posted. So what do y'all suggest we do? We either lynch or we request a sub.

Then vote, mitch. Also, can't blame anyone for entertaining the thought that I'd be scum given this is the first game in many that I'm not.

Yeah but you WOULD say that even if you were scum wouldn't you. Just find this amusing as I haven't picked up on anything else particularly scummy from you so far.

Thor: Flores screwed up the quote by placing his comments within it. He's not intentionally attributing them to you. It happens quite often actually so I urge people to be careful and use preview function or keep the number of quotes per post to a minimum and split posts up a little more (as long as mod approves).

Kudos to ZaBeast for putting the extra effort in and looking at past games for research. Though you know don't overdo it because then it becomes all about meta.

Pika's point about dakky is very true plus dakky seems a little quiet overall. Kinda weak coming from me because of the OMGUSness of it but until we sort out the nick situation .. FOS dakky

[lord voldemort]

Nick still hasn't posted. So what do y'all suggest we do? We either lynch or we request a sub.

He has requested to be replaced....so I am hunting another replacement

[DirtyDishSoap]

In any event, I hate Days 1 with a passion and continue my stance in other games, and would rather proceed with a no lynch. Potentially gain way more knowledge on Days 2, rather than throwing the finger blindly.

*face palm* the eerie feeling of deja vu is killing me

Quit picking on me!

DDS, I can assure you I am in this game.

Lies. FOS BuJaber

If it's only 3 mafia, then we're good. Anyway, I think DDS copied the list so #11 is himself and he forgot to count the roles again. Sounds like a slip. Unless #11 was a "town" role but I highly doubt it.

I don't think any dwarves are scum roles, I would see some of them as fake claims instead. Plenty evil characters in the series to chose from, I don't see the need for evil dwarves. About the DDS list, he did indead a bad copy-paste job, as he forgot the "l" in Kili. You'll notice the dwarves end at 14, so he didn't forget any dwarves, he just went from 10 to 12 when he numbered the list.

Jesus, I forgot one number. Oh no.

As for Dakky: I'm not sure if you're just grasping for straws on this one, but your argument that one of the dwarves is "evil" is pretty loose ended.
Verycereal FOS Dakky

[FloresDelMal]

ack i horribly screwed up my last quote, sorry ppl

Apology NOT good enough.

You start your post by ragging on me for suggesting anything that might end the tedium of Day 1... Accusing me of being noob*, scum or BOTH!
and then you end your over-long post by making another long complex quote and then FALSELY attributing the quote to me.

You didn't even explain the mistake... That was so sloppy that I'm wondering if it was intentional...

I would 'FOS' you over this, but you did FOS Pika and I do feel that is a good move... but you are now honor-bound to double down on your proof-reading, hear?

*(I suppose I am technically semi-noob, but I'm not that bad. It's EVERYBODY ELSE who is playing my 'noob card', NOT ME.)

Sorry for that, in my deffense when i finished that post was well past 4 am in here, and i really runned out of juice, and i always been super clumsy with the commands for quotes, highlighting and stuff, when my frenchy will get out of work ill ask help and re post it, but i wont apologize about how i feel that your lynch no lynch stance, overall after seeing how you completely opposed your stance in another game (good catch there btw, kudos) and about the lenght of the post i wont apologize either, it might be annoying to some, but it is my style to adress every comment that seems to me that need to be adressed, and i construct my posts as i go ^^

mmhh or are you soft claiming because you and your "precious" are 2 roles in 1

Hey! That's my line >:(

In any case, I don't really see Golllum as an evil evil character. He'd be third party, but I don't see killer fitting him. Personally I'd say him being a lyncher or survivor fits better.
But none of that really matters does it, since we're all using Hobbit/LoTR flavour to avoid actually scumhunting and still looking busy, right?

What scum hunting have you done Gollum? (...and is your red text the voice of The Precious, or of Sméagol?)

hey, everything you say can and most likely will be used against you

Nick still hasn't posted. So what do y'all suggest we do? We either lynch or we request a sub.

it could be ideal to replace, but i agree if the person in case read his role and then dont find it in himself to get motivated enough to bring his behind to the forum it is very likely the role in itself is not very exciting, so i highly doubt it could be a power role, hence making it a low risk lynch candidate, but in my experience it doesnt really matter if you are a power role or not, because often enough is motivated VT who actively build cases and hunt scum by day, so yeah lets try to replace it, nag say that he could replace if we forgive a bit of inactivity, to me seems like a win win.

and thanks for bringing up that it wasnt my intention to pin my opinion on anyone, seriously, as it shames me to admit it it was bona fide clumsiness

[MudPuppy]

If it's only 3 mafia, then we're good. Anyway, I think DDS copied the list so #11 is himself and he forgot to count the roles again. Sounds like a slip. Unless #11 was a "town" role but I highly doubt it.

Pika already been pointed out that your interpretation of the missing #11 in DDS's post as a "slip" revealing his role is inaccurate. Expanding on that, if you actually believed that to be the case, you needed to go the extra mile and figure out what his role was. If town, then you just found (in your mind) a confirmed townie... and you should NOT have just outed him. If scum, then it's fine to announce him... but your choice to not research which role it might be before doing so makes little sense.

You've done some other weird stuff too like vote BuJaber for accidentally voting for a non-player. To me that's not much of a scum tell as I don't see how it would benefit you since the case had no traction... but I don't think your conclusion that he was trying to make it look like he's voting without making a valid vote is accurate.

I'm also willing to give you an 80% pass on pushing Thor hard as nobody should be given a free pass... but it is certainly a questionable choice of targets.

It actually feels like you're just trying to poke anyone and everyone with stuff you don't believe yourself to draw out a reaction... which can be useful for town... but making accusations you don't believe in sure doesn't make you look very townish. If you do believe them, it makes you look like a poor player. Either way, you look bad.

FOS, dakky

[dakky21]

Yeah, it is true I skimmed a bit through DDS post and didn't see he included the link to the source. You are also correct I am poking everyone to see the reaction. It's day one, some interaction is better than none.

[Thorthoth]

Thinking about the story... I'm learning/re-learning much more about The Hobbit.
I just figured out that orcs = goblins... so there were orcs in The Hobbit...
...and furthermore Jackson added a dwarf-hunting orc named Azog in the movie, that wasn't in the book.

Could the One Ring be a game character in it's own right?
Al lot of interesting play could result from that.

[Ragian]

Doesn't really matter right now. What do you make of people's interaction so far?

I don't find dakky scummy. When town, he always comes off as poking anything (and often gets lynched for it) in order to move the game forward.

[Thorthoth]

Doesn't really matter right now. What do you make of people's interaction so far?

I don't find dakky scummy. When town, he always comes off as poking anything (and often gets lynched for it) in order to move the game forward.

His poking didn't get him lynched in Mass Effects... but of course, then he wasn't town, was he?

btw, I would like to hope that mods assign roles randomly. This is a game, not the cast of a play.

LV, did roles get assigned randomly?

[Samlen]

To assume that the roles are assigned randomly is a safe bet for pretty much every mafia game. Rng sometimes hates some people and gets them stuck in the same type of role multiple games in a row though. To do so otherwise wouldn't be fair even in the 'choose your own character' game coming up the alignments are random. And yeah dakky likes poking people, which is generally a good thing as town to get scum to slip up. Acting that way as scum is just a good way to make it seem like you're still town. Either way, I don't see it as indicative towards dakky's alignment as of yet.

[Ragian]

Why don't you try answering my question instead, Thor?

[Thorthoth]

What do you make of people's interaction so far?...
...Why don't you try answering my question instead, Thor?

It's Day 1, I don't have any strong opinions about any player or interaction yet... but I do find attempts to make something out of nothing a bit scummy...
but I know everybody does that a little bit, either accidentally or out of sheer Day 1 boredom.

Players agreeing with each other without a clearly logical and fully explained reason is scummy. I'm not impressed by people claiming to be experts. Rational explanations must be given.

Several players pushing for a blind lynch is very suggestive of scum. Scum may not have had a chance to talk yet but they know who each other are.

For now, I'll stick to my 'no lynch' guns. It's not scummy, it is the fair and cautious approach to take, at least until an obvious scum candidate is discovered.
...but I will admit I would like to have this 'endless' Day 1 over with... It should just be given an end date.

[madmitch]

To my pal Rags ,I have not voted yet because it was suggested that I vote and unvote to many times, but now I think I will VOTE THORTH I don`t like his no-lynch ideal

[IcePack]

For the record, I'm also generally pro no lynch Day 1. I believe I joined DDS previous debate thread w that stance as well. While I might get an inkling of something, I don't see us being able to get a strong enough sense for someone to lynch.
Especially in a bigger player game like this, not as urgent as a 8 or 9 player game.

That being said now that I've read through everything twice, I am getting a scum vibe from a few people.

With that said, I support vote no lynch today unless someone really strongly screws up or convinces me otherwise. I want to see how my FOS react to this and also Day 2 where they go. Then I really start narrowing in on people fwiw

[IcePack]

To my pal Rags ,I have not voted yet because it was suggested that I vote and unvote to many times, but now I think I will VOTE THORTH I don`t like his no-lynch ideal

Why thorth over DDS or some of the other no lynch advocates? Or me?

[Minister Masket]

Thinking about the story... I'm learning/re-learning much more about The Hobbit.
I just figured out that orcs = goblins... so there were orcs in The Hobbit...
...and furthermore Jackson added a dwarf-hunting orc named Azog in the movie, that wasn't in the book.

Azog was in the book, he just (canonically) died at that dwarf/orc battle at the beginning of the film. Bolg then takes up the 'head orc' position for the rest of the story, though he doesn't really show up until the final battle.

Could the One Ring be a game character in it's own right?
Al lot of interesting play could result from that.

That...is an interesting point. Certainly the One Ring has a will of its own, but I think that would suit far more in a LOTR mafia rather than this one.

[Pikanchion]

unvote my joke vote.

At this point, I'm keeping my eye on whoever says a lot without saying anything. There are a few candidates already. Also, I'd like to add that I'm out of town till tomorrow, so my activity might dwindle a bit till Thursday evening.

Who?

unvote my joke vote.

At this point, I'm keeping my eye on whoever says a lot without saying anything. There are a few candidates already. Also, I'd like to add that I'm out of town till tomorrow, so my activity might dwindle a bit till Thursday evening.

The real trick is to keep an eye on who is saying a lot by not posting anything. Don't stay away too long.

Who?

My completely random, totally doesn't mean anything picks for the scum today are:

DDS
Ragoo
Dakky
pika/Masket
Flores

Why?

What do you make of people's interaction so far?...
...Why don't you try answering my question instead, Thor?

It's Day 1, I don't have any strong opinions about any player or interaction yet... but I do find attempts to make something out of nothing a bit scummy...
but I know everybody does that a little bit, either accidentally or out of sheer Day 1 boredom.

Who?

Players agreeing with each other without a clearly logical and fully explained reason is scummy. I'm not impressed by people claiming to be experts. Rational explanations must be given.

Who?

Several players pushing for a blind lynch is very suggestive of scum. Scum may not have had a chance to talk yet but they know who each other are.

Who?

For now, I'll stick to my 'no lynch' guns. It's not scummy,

Citation Needed

it is the fair and cautious approach to take, at least until an obvious scum candidate is discovered.
...but I will admit I would like to have this 'endless' Day 1 over with... It should just be given an end date.

And how exactly do you propose we identify an "obvious scum candidate" if all you want to do is end the day early with a no lynch without making any real accusations one way or another?

I went back and looked for any post where DirtyDishSoap even slightly implied they were suspicious of anybody or their actions and I couldn't find one. What I did find was this however:

So, not wanting to lynch anyone D1, how do you want to go about this day, DDS? (Curious, not facetious.)

I don't mind discussing the set up for now. As far as I would have it, just a no lynch and see where Days 2 takes us and hopefully we nab a lead.

I'm largely a minority in this case, as far as discussion goes, I'll partake, but in terms of looking for scum tells on days 1 isn't really my strong suite to begin with.

You clearly refuse to participate in Day 1 of the game because you're set on No Lynching, even if you are set on a No Lynch you could at least comment on something other than the setup of the game. How does this help town? How is town meant to have anything to go on going into Day 2 if nobody talks about anything other than setup during Day 1? Refusing to properly participate in Day 1 sets you up as a neutral party, you've disagreed with nobody over anything substantial, and likewise nobody has anything to disagree with you over. If scum this is a valid tactic, if town this is simply selfish.

No Lynching unless a candidate for scum appears is a self-fulfilling prophecy, if nobody has any pressure put on them then nobody will ever look scummy. If a game is day-starting it's clearly balanced under the expectation of a Day 1 lynch, otherwise there's no reason not to make it a night-start game.

[Thorthoth]

I'm not going to re-quote Pika's epic post (You're very welcome.). Scroll up.

But I will ask Pika a question or two: How do you intend to prevent scum from leading a 'blind' lynch against a townie on Day 1? ...or, do you even care?

[dakky21]

Thor... I don't get you... you expect to be a chief detective in every game without writing some own stuff. That's pretty much scummy. Mass Effect was your first game, ok, I can accept that, but you need to post your own thoughts about other players. If you are just going to wait for others to reveal themselves then you're not of much use to whatever factions exists. Try to build a case on someone like I did on you in Mass Effect and don't just question others. YOU are not here to question others, YOU are here to be like others. Just play the damn game. If you will not, I will be happy to pursue you once again.

[Thorthoth]

Thor... I don't get you... you expect to be a chief detective in every game without writing some own stuff. That's pretty much scummy. Mass Effect was your first game, ok, I can accept that, but you need to post your own thoughts about other players. If you are just going to wait for others to reveal themselves then you're not of much use to whatever factions exists. Try to build a case on someone like I did on you in Mass Effect and don't just question others. YOU are not here to question others, YOU are here to be like others. Just play the damn game. If you will not, I will be happy to pursue you once again.

Obviously, I'm questioning Pika. Any answers he gives will be judged by myself and the other players. That is playing. It moves the game forward and it's not scummy.
Are you threatened that I'm asking PIka about his pro blind-lynch stance. Are you also eager to bandwagon a lynch even if the victim is town.
After Mass effects, we all know that you're good at hiding a non-town role by deflecting suspicion and attention onto others... but since we all now know that now, maybe it won't work so well next time... or this time.

[Pikanchion]

I'm not going to re-quote Pika's epic post (You're very welcome.). Scroll up.

But I will ask Pika a question or two: How do you intend to prevent scum from leading a 'blind' lynch against a townie on Day 1? ...or, do you even care?

Every positive action (e.g. voting for somebody) leaves a paper trail, if scum convince town to vote for somebody else today it makes it slightly easier to guess who they are tomorrow, or potentially even tonight for any relevant power roles. Negative actions on the other hand (i.e. not voting or voting for a No Lynch) give very little to go on if anything. Losing a townie to a lynch is objectively better than losing them to an anonymous killer, especially when we have townies to spare such as at the start of most games.

How do you intend to prevent the lynch being "blind" if you don't share your suspicions with the group, or... Do you even care?

[FloresDelMal]

You clearly refuse to participate in Day 1 of the game because you're set on No Lynching, even if you are set on a No Lynch you could at least comment on something other than the setup of the game. How does this help town? How is town meant to have anything to go on going into Day 2 if nobody talks about anything other than setup during Day 1? Refusing to properly participate in Day 1 sets you up as a neutral party, you've disagreed with nobody over anything substantial, and likewise nobody has anything to disagree with you over. If scum this is a valid tactic, if town this is simply selfish.

No Lynching unless a candidate for scum appears is a self-fulfilling prophecy, if nobody has any pressure put on them then nobody will ever look scummy. If a game is day-starting it's clearly balanced under the expectation of a Day 1 lynch, otherwise there's no reason not to make it a night-start game.

Word! i couldnt agree more those who's and why's need to be answered also, we are all playing a game that demands to own the responsability and implications of each and every single one of our posts, so throwing shade randomly without raising any names seems awfully scummy to me, its like "hey ppl look at me, i am faking contribution while avoiding any anymosity or attention towards me" from where i come from we call ppl like this "democratas cristianos" it is a no sense, and there is no uglier appellation in my book, and its 6 am here, and i expend a nuit blanche keeping an eye on ga7's bloated dog so he wont wake up to a dead fluffball, that could kinda screw our weekend *yawn* somehow i think i managed to save him with simeticone, and i am getting sidetracked...

I'm not going to re-quote Pika's epic post (You're very welcome.). Scroll up.

But I will ask Pika a question or two: How do you intend to prevent scum from leading a 'blind' lynch against a townie on Day 1? ...or, do you even care?

why do you insist on the concept of "blind lynch", that is not the aim, sure the cases of day 1 are often weaker and more circunstancial and hunch dependant than the cases that come up on the days to follow, but they are not blind, thats why we talk, thats why we observe, because we need to grasp those circunstancial signs that points to some ppl being scummier than others, and there making better targets than a randome player, ah so tired, i wish i could teletransport to bed

[Thorthoth]

This is day 1, my suspicions will get stronger as evidence warrants. That is the way all townies should proceed. Jumping blindly on a bandwagon, or anything else, will likely be a scum/third party trap.

So far my strongest suspicion is against you, PIka. If you're completely fine with losing a townie on Day 1 you'll probably try for that again on Day 2.
Also, it's likely that the biggest thing we'll learn from a Day 1 blind lynch is which players lobbied and instigated for it most..... but we don't even need to do the lynch to learn that.
I don't need to make that official with an 'FOS' yet, but other players should also take a look at how PIka is pushing.

Flores, read what I said again. When there is sufficient evidence to lynch the lynch won't be blind, until then, it is blind, de facto.

What are your suspiscions? What are anybody's suspicions? Just because I'm posting doesn't make me any more obligated to that the other players.

Trying to paint my cautious and evidence-base approach as scummy is the thing that I find scummy. If that shoe fits wear it. That goes for Pika and everyone else who is willing to be reckless.. or is cunningly conspiring to make others act recklessly.

Understand me, I will join a lynch on Day 1 if it doesn't seem reckless or scummy. So now it is up to the pro-lynchers to build their case!

[ZaBeast]

Jumping blindly on a bandwagon, or anything else, will likely be a scum/third party trap.

So far my strongest suspicion is against you, PIka. If you're completely fine with losing a townie on Day 1 you'll probably try for that again on Day 2.
Also, it's likely that the biggest thing we'll learn from a Day 1 blind lynch is which players lobbied and instigated for it most..... but we don't even need to do the lynch to learn that.
[...]
What are your suspiscions? What are anybody's suspicions? Just because I'm posting doesn't make me any more obligated to that the other players.
[...]
Understand me, I will join a lynch on Day 1 if it doesn't seem reckless or scummy. So now it is up to the pro-lynchers to build their case!

1) I would say one of the most precious info you get from a lynch is the role of the lynchee. Only then and in regards to it can you try to draw conclusions as whether the players that interacted with him are scummy or not. Unfortunately, you can only get that info when the player is lynched (or to a certain extent when he claims).
2) You look like you're hiding under your no-lynch stance to avoid scum-hunting. But you're right, I would also like to have the stance of other players, esp. IcePack since he clearly said he had some suspicions. From what I understand he'll try to make a case out of it on D2, but I don't see why he can't just now.
On a similar note, and as I already said, that's why I am voting for MM. OT talk is the same as not posting at all and that's pretty much all he's done so far, by mostly posting stuff about LotR to make it look like he's contributing.
3) I feel like you're picking on Pika because he has a different stance on the lynch/no-lynch issue. Obviously if is pro-lynch, he will want to lynch someone D1. How does that make him scummy? I'd rather judge him on the scum hunting he's done than the fact he wants to take the risk to kill a townie to learn more about the relationships between everybody.
4) No one is asking you to jump blindly on a bandwagon. For the record, there is no bandwagon at the moment, so no way to jump on one. Though you kinda wanted to make one (see below). I would appreciate if you could try to build a case out of people rather than say you'll wait for them (the cases) to come at you.

Old post:

Would somebody count up the posts and then we can lynch a non-poster and get this game really going.

Can I know why you changed your mind from "let's vote off a no-poster" to no-lynch? Doesn't that count as "jumping blindly on a bandwagon"?
And for the record, as I already said, "forcing" everyone to vote for someone doesn't give off any info. I'll just quote myself so I don't have to write it again

Just picking a lynch candidate semi-randomly and having everyone vote for him is not going to give us any information. If we manage to pick scum, the other scumsters won't try to divert the vote because it would already be a done deal (and they'd look very scummy) and will just vote for him. If we pick town, mafia members will be all too happy to have a free kill. Either way we get no info.

You still got my FOS on you.

To my pal Rags ,I have not voted yet because it was suggested that I vote and unvote to many times, but now I think I will VOTE THORTH I don`t like his no-lynch ideal

Why thorth over DDS or some of the other no lynch advocates? Or me?

You posted your stance on the lynch-no lynch issue after he posted his vote. DDS, always has this stance, so it is not alignment indicative.

[IcePack]

You posted your stance on the lynch-no lynch issue after he posted his vote. DDS, always has this stance, so it is not alignment indicative.

Right, I know my post was afterwards. I wasn't questioning why me specifically, but in general anyone w a no lynch stance. Which is why I included myself. While DDS is always no lynch, I want to know madmitches reasons for selecting him over Thor. He specifically says he disapproves of the ideal so anyone could be targeted (even DDS) but why select one over the other?