INTO THE DEEP (COMPLETE - Mafia Win !!)

[Tobikera]

Also I'd like to hear your thoughts on SW's counter-claim since you put him this high on your scummy list

To be honest, I haven't been paying a lot of attention to what SW says. He started coming after me soon after he joined the game with little basis. However, I have no other reason to doubt his counterclaim. It was convenient that blacky first said he was poisoned and today says he was cured, with SW right there to take the credit. But, maybe that's exactly what happened. Of course, they could both be scum and working a con on the rest of us, but I have no proof for that. I did wonder a bit when SW counterclaimed at all. Usually, town power roles keep the lid on for fear of being night-killed, and using his declaration to try to get blacky lynched didn't ring true. I'll keep my vote where it is right now, as the day turns.

[Pikanchion]

Pershy and jfm aside, I am the only player with a stated action that was verified. I've revealed everything about me except my favorite food. Almost every mafia game I've played, I'd be the golden townie by now, and the only ones coming after me would be scum. If the shoe fits....

Your arguments are consistently based on assumptions the rest of us cannot rely upon; your role's ability is confirmed* (assuming BuJaber corroborates your action last night), your role's alignment is not. Would you believe somebody was Town if they were an unlimited-use Vigilante who had been responsible for a night kill on Town-sided players both the previous nights (with the scum having not made any as per the current situation)?

*

So, I didn't lie, my role was different in the sense it was expanded.

Also I was thinking about it and I don't see why tobi would have a healer mentioned in his role pm given the role he claimed. Am I missing something?

Quite simple really. The mod said that if my next target prey is a healer, I become one for one night in the future. So, if my prey is a food fish, I get to eat, and if my prey is a healer, I get to heal. That's all I know.

So this is part of your role too then?—Or did you in fact lie?

[strike wolf]

Other than the healer part, it's a fair explanation. As others have said, ability doesn't prove alignment. In a normal game, I don't give redirector credit as being a definite town role (maybe some town leaning but not proven by any means). I don't know yet how much credit I give it in this game. Still for now, I've heard enough to keep myself more open for future references.

unVote Tobi

[Tobikera]

So, I didn't lie, my role was different in the sense it was expanded.

Also I was thinking about it and I don't see why tobi would have a healer mentioned in his role pm given the role he claimed. Am I missing something?

Quite simple really. The mod said that if my next target prey is a healer, I become one for one night in the future. So, if my prey is a food fish, I get to eat, and if my prey is a healer, I get to heal. That's all I know.

So this is part of your role too then?—Or did you in fact lie?

When the mod told me at the beginning of D2 that I could mis-direct 3 players the next night, he also mentioned that if one of those I selected was a healer, then I would get to be a healer on a subsequent night of my choosing. But, I didn't go after my favorite prey, so did not have the chance. He still included it in my N1 results though.

[BuJaber]

From what I've been told all I can say for sure is it's possible I was misdirected.

It's only interpretation of flavor based on Tobi claiming to be a squid, but it's not like it was spelled out to me literally "you have been misdirected".

Which is fair enough.. nornal games wouldn't even give any hints even flavor hints wouldn't be given. So this is basically a bonus clue that could be confirmed later if nobody else had targetted me.

[BuJaber]

I'm jealous of how many abilities Tobi's role seems to potentially give him. I know they're conditional but damn man.

[Tobikera]

From what I've been told all I can say for sure is it's possible I was misdirected.

It's only interpretation of flavor based on Tobi claiming to be a squid, but it's not like it was spelled out to me literally "you have been misdirected".

Which is fair enough.. nornal games wouldn't even give any hints even flavor hints wouldn't be given. So this is basically a bonus clue that could be confirmed later if nobody else had targetted me.

I'm not prying here, just repeating what I said before. If something did happen to you, or it was hinted, perhaps the lack of specificity for you (and for me, no acknowledgment of a N2 result from the mod) implies that you took no night action last night. I'm sure there are other explanations. I find the reports of "being attacked", my "being bumped last night", and perhaps whatever you experienced an interesting subplot of the game. Explaining them might not influence or reveal the larger picture in this game, but it gives a finer texture to the mod's layout than one would expect in a mafia game. It's almost like the mod has one or more decision trees set up to reflect all of this.

[Tobikera]

I'm jealous of how many abilities Tobi's role seems to potentially give him. I know they're conditional but damn man.

Don't be too jealous, given the probabilies, I will only misdirect every night (or threaten to..lol). Would you take a 30% chance of lucking into your favorite food balanced against the 50% "wall of shame" if you don't, or the 20% chance of getting killed. These bonus inducements by the mod are sucker bets in my mind. Perhaps a way to move the game on and get it over quicker?

[TX AG 90]

I'm jealous of how many abilities Tobi's role seems to potentially give him. I know they're conditional but damn man.

The bonus abilities are only granted after a successful night action AND successfully going for food. Tobi claims he doesn't have them yet.

[chapcrap]

Back for a quick post before I go back to poker.

I don't believe jfm ever claimed directly to have poisoned Blacky; I think we just circumstantially connected those dots based on what he said. If I'm misremembering and he actually directly said he poisoned Blacky it makes a big difference in how we put the pieces together.

Also, people are asking how jfm knew there was a healer. He claimed (though he may be full of crap) that he was told he would get credits if he poisoned a townie and the townie was healed. I don't know how this fits into the role of a Town Vigilante, but this scenario has been crazy since get go.

I had also thought that he didn't directly claim poisoner, but I went and checked and he did. It was post lynch/pre scene. Found here: viewtopic.php?f=213&t=229849&start=850#p5092709

It's in the same past that he said he could get a bonus if he poisoned a townie and said townie was healed.

So, I go back to questioning Mets on being poisoned. How did this occur? A second poisoner? If that's the case, then why was only one person poisoned on night one?

[TX AG 90]

Back for a quick post before I go back to poker.

I don't believe jfm ever claimed directly to have poisoned Blacky; I think we just circumstantially connected those dots based on what he said. If I'm misremembering and he actually directly said he poisoned Blacky it makes a big difference in how we put the pieces together.

Also, people are asking how jfm knew there was a healer. He claimed (though he may be full of crap) that he was told he would get credits if he poisoned a townie and the townie was healed. I don't know how this fits into the role of a Town Vigilante, but this scenario has been crazy since get go.

I had also thought that he didn't directly claim poisoner, but I went and checked and he did. It was post lynch/pre scene. Found here: viewtopic.php?f=213&t=229849&start=850#p5092709

It's in the same past that he said he could get a bonus if he poisoned a townie and said townie was healed.

So, I go back to questioning Mets on being poisoned. How did this occur? A second poisoner? If that's the case, then why was only one person poisoned on night one?

I'm not questioning whether jfm was a poisoner. I'm questioning whether he poisoned blacky.

[Razorvich]

[Tobikera]

The thread fall silent as we enter the weekend. The town, reeling from two successive lynches from within their own ranks, ponder how to nail a mafia scum on D3. The mafia scum contemplate who to attempt to nightkill next. So far, they have been unsuccessful for some reason. Any productivity of opinion just went out the window as the mod posts the current Day 3 stats. There appears to be no coalescence of opinion. Potential lynchers seem in doubt. And, to top things off, the mod missed Strike Wolf UNVOTING Tobi at the top of this page 39, thus "mis-directing" a few who don't read these lines. Come on mod......

[dakky21]

I was re-reading the last few pages and came across this little gem:

I don't like how dakky seems to try to deter people from targetting him, after he has claimed for no good reason on D1. He said he's been notified that someone targetted him, is someone willing to go on the record saying he has targetted dakky and it didn't work? That might help prove he's not just scum trying to avoid being targetted.

Where did I say I have been notified that someone targeted me? Just point to the post and I'll buy you a beer.

[dakky21]

BTW. I'm trying to put everything in order in my head. Who already said "I must be town"... ZaBeast, Mets and Skoff (maybe someone else, but these 3 were most noticable). If they're scum, they want me to stay alive till LyLo because they know they can't kill me at night so they don't want to lynch me now when there are better options.

On the other hand, BuJaber wants me dead because of the same reason why those above don't want me dead yet.

If you put it like this, everyone who said I am town is probably persuading others into that thinking and therefore lynching anyone else. So if I am correct, it is up to you guys to decide if those mentioned are clever enough to put this through...

[Metsfanmax]

BTW. I'm trying to put everything in order in my head. Who already said "I must be town"... ZaBeast, Mets and Skoff (maybe someone else, but these 3 were most noticable). If they're scum, they want me to stay alive till LyLo because they know they can't kill me at night so they don't want to lynch me now when there are better options.

No, this doesn't make sense. If I was scum and did it this way, what case would I have when we get to LyLo for lynching you, when I said a long time ago that you are town and then never changed my mind? It would look scummy and wouldn't work. If I was scum and believed your hider claim, I would do pretty much anything other than call you town, so that later on I'd still have a case for lynching you.

[TX AG 90]

What is LyLo?

[Sirius Kase]

What is LyLo?

Lynch or Lose, at some point, it's mathematically necessary to lynch or you effectively hand the game to the mafia. That assumes scum kills a townie every night and town lynches scum every day. I'm not sure we can make those assumptions. I think we need to get better at identifying alignment before lynching. The way this game is going, scum will win without a single NK.

BTW. I'm trying to put everything in order in my head. Who already said "I must be town"... ZaBeast, Mets and Skoff (maybe someone else, but these 3 were most noticable). If they're scum, they want me to stay alive till LyLo because they know they can't kill me at night so they don't want to lynch me now when there are better options.

No, this doesn't make sense. If I was scum and did it this way, what case would I have when we get to LyLo for lynching you, when I said a long time ago that you are town and then never changed my mind? It would look scummy and wouldn't work. If I was scum and believed your hider claim, I would do pretty much anything other than call you town, so that later on I'd still have a case for lynching you.

From the start, Dakky has made a thing about how he can't be found at night. I don't know how that makes him town. He could be bulletproof scum for all we know. It's like he's daring someone to target him. It's the constant repetition that seems wrong. Why keep saying that he can't be found? If scum or a vig waste a NK on him, that's a good thing, isn't it?

[dakky21]

@ mets: it makes perfect sense because you knew from the first moment I claimed that I am saying the truth so you went along it and supported me because you knew you can't make a case around me.

@ sirius: I could be bulletproof scum but there are multiple investigative roles and already someone should have checked me and report that it failed. Or maybe they did but they don't want to say it. Welcome to the scum list Sirius.

[Metsfanmax]

@ mets: it makes perfect sense because you knew from the first moment I claimed that I am saying the truth so you went along it and supported me because you knew you can't make a case around me.

I have absolutely zero evidence that you are telling the truth, and given your propensity to make up absurd claims regardless of your alignment, I don't have much faith in your claim.

[dakky21]

Exactly and I don't have absolutely no idea why did you said I am town in the first place. What made you think I am town?

[dakky21]

Actually, re-read and you given your thoughts why I am town

I also want to go on the record as stating that I don't see dakky as scummy today. I think he's been all over the place, to be sure, but it really reads to me as town play from him. He's honestly trying to generate cases and spark discussion, and he's been prodding people to go on the record about what they're doing and why, which is solid town behavior.

But still I have a feeling something is not normal.

[Sirius Kase]

@ sirius: I could be bulletproof scum but there are multiple investigative roles and already someone should have checked me and report that it failed. Or maybe they did but they don't want to say it. Welcome to the scum list Sirius.

That's true, maybe you've been investigated, and no one has reported. But, why does me asking legitimate questions make you so "welcoming"? That's exactly the sort of thing that makes me not like you, even if you are town. I don't recommend lynching town, but without a solid reason to vote for someone else, I will consider voting for you. Still waiting for those reports that vindicate you.

[strike wolf]

I'll just be honest, I have no idea how to actually read Dakky. He's basically just a loose cannon who says what he wants whether it makes sense or not.

[BuJaber]

I'm jealous of how many abilities Tobi's role seems to potentially give him. I know they're conditional but damn man.

The bonus abilities are only granted after a successful night action AND successfully going for food. Tobi claims he doesn't have them yet.

That's correct for everyone, as Razorvich mentioned in thread.

What is extra for Tobi is that he gets power from specific foods he eats on top of his role and his bonus abilities. So that's two bonus abilities when he successfully eats.