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Westeros - A Song of Ice and Fire [abandoned]

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Postby DiM on Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:41 am

it looks much nicer without the borders and names :P
and to be frank i haven't even noticed how clear the water shading variations are with all the coloring in the continent because of the names and borders :(

oh and actually castles wouldn't be visible but cities would be even as tiny groups of dots. after all modern cities are visible from the moon. it's no problem if you don't want to add that it would probably cramp the image even more.


i was just curious about the wall because i didn't read the books. are they any good?

anyway back on track. small map. in the "final say about size" you said a map "must fit within the size guidelines to be moved from the Map Ideas sub-forum to the main Map Foundry forum". while i understand you have designed the large map thinking of the small one i'd still like to see a small version. you say the border movements won't affect gameplay. i say better to be safe than sorry. make a small image solve the border issues and the circles and font and when that's finished gameplay can be discussed. it's really useless to set some bonuses now if they will be changed on the small map.

the font. maybe look at some of the fonts in the book. haven't searched but i'm sure they must have some cool looking fonts.


one other thing i searched the net for westeros and i found the map below. it has a much bigger color variation than yours. it has deserts and snow and dense forests. perhaps you could alter the colors a bit to reflect these things.

Image


edit// one more thing. you said copyright has been taken care of. what exactly did you do? i have a map in my mind but the copyright is problematic. do i just send an email? what do i say? how long do i wait? please pm me about this matter.
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Postby Melers on Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:58 am

the map looks awsome
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Postby hulmey on Wed Aug 15, 2007 1:09 pm

I doubt this map would see much play on it if you leave the borders how they are. Its very hard to see were the borders start etc...~Greeat idea though but sadly not very pratical!!!
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Postby Voryn on Wed Aug 15, 2007 2:46 pm

Yeah, just work on the borders more. You still need to have them more clearly defined.
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Postby PerArdua on Wed Aug 15, 2007 3:03 pm

As a fan of the series I love that Westeros is being made into a map. So far everything looks great and I appreciate that you're making it more straightforward without gimmicks. I wish that we could see some of beyond the wall. But that would really drag out the map so I think you did well to keep it out.

I am wondering though why Dragonstone can't attack King's Landing. Seeing as how that was the path Aegon took to claim the 7 Kingdoms I think it ought to be able to. Are you trying to make it true to the book or just simply a playable map by itself?
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Postby Spockers on Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:20 pm

DiM wrote:it looks much nicer without the borders and names :P


This is the unfortunate fact we have known for a while. If anyone can find a way to have borders that don't ruin the look of the map, you win 1st prize.


DiM wrote:i was just curious about the wall because i didn't read the books. are they any good?


They are brilliant.

DiM wrote:one more thing. you said copyright has been taken care of. what exactly did you do? i have a map in my mind but the copyright is problematic. do i just send an email? what do i say? how long do i wait? please pm me about this matter.


Lets just say we made him an offer he couldn't refuse.
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Postby Spockers on Wed Aug 15, 2007 4:21 pm

PerArdua wrote:Are you trying to make it true to the book or just simply a playable map by itself?


A good mix of both. But no reason that we cant look at hooking up dragonstone and king's landing.
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Postby DiM on Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:06 pm

Spockers wrote:
DiM wrote:one more thing. you said copyright has been taken care of. what exactly did you do? i have a map in my mind but the copyright is problematic. do i just send an email? what do i say? how long do i wait? please pm me about this matter.


Lets just say we made him an offer he couldn't refuse.



i'm serious about this. please pm me the details. i want to know what to do.
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Postby KEYOGI on Wed Aug 15, 2007 5:53 pm

DiM wrote:i was just curious about the wall because i didn't read the books. are they any good?

The books are great... well the first book and half the second is all I've read so far, but still great. :D

On the small map issue, I appreciate your concern but you need not worry. The map will scale to the small version without a problem. Considering I don't need to worry about the small until closer to Final Forge, it is not a priority at the moment.

The font from the book would need to be quite large to be legible, and the font chosen was done so because it works so well at a small size. It's a bit more interesting than a plain Arial font, but not so interesting that it needs to be large to be readable.

DiM wrote:one other thing i searched the net for westeros and i found the map below. it has a much bigger color variation than yours. it has deserts and snow and dense forests. perhaps you could alter the colors a bit to reflect these things.

Image

I guess this is just a matter of opinion and personal taste. I feel the forests in that map are over the top and the colour variation extreme. We were going for a more subtle feel and I think we've achieved something a tad more realistic. We have the snows represented in the north, the desert in the south and forests and mountains that are clearly visible, but don't jump out at you. Again, just a matter of opinion I guess.

hulmey wrote:I doubt this map would see much play on it if you leave the borders how they are. Its very hard to see were the borders start etc...~Greeat idea though but sadly not very pratical!!!

I'm not sure I follow your argument here. The borders are clearly visible and practical. I guess you need to elaborate.

PerArdua wrote:I am wondering though why Dragonstone can't attack King's Landing. Seeing as how that was the path Aegon took to claim the 7 Kingdoms I think it ought to be able to. Are you trying to make it true to the book or just simply a playable map by itself?

This was the original sea connection I had, but it looked a bit unsightly. This can be tried again though as we are trying to stick as close to the books as possible while maintaining a playable map. I would have liked White Harbour to connect to King's Landing via a sea connection, but visually it didn't work. Map making is all about sacrifice, and this map has had plenty of it already and it's bound to have more. :wink:
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Postby Evil Pope on Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:26 pm

In regards to the borders(which are not right for this map), what if you tried more subtle divisions(dotted lines, really thin lines, something else?), which are easily distinguished but don't overpower or detract from the map as these do, and simply highlighted the borders between "continents" with thier respective color, rather than the internal borders as well.
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Postby Spockers on Wed Aug 15, 2007 7:46 pm

I was going to say, "yes there is an example of dotted line borders on the front page"

But KEYOGI has for some reason taken the image away leaving a dead link :roll:

I'm sure he'll put it back soon.


I'm glad this is being discussed actually, because the first time we presented more subtle borders, they got bagged. I'm glad they will be getting another chance.
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Postby KEYOGI on Wed Aug 15, 2007 8:53 pm

Trouble with dotted lines was that there was confusion, especially with rivers acting as borders.
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Postby Xyl on Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:24 am

For the borders, I think something subtler might work, maybe a dotted line with a bit of colored glow underneath. But I don't think too much work should be put into making all the borders pretty until there's a consensus on where they should go. :)
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Postby Spockers on Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:44 am

no no, feel free to come up with pretty borders first. It's just as easy either way.
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Postby Iliad on Thu Aug 16, 2007 1:47 am

Spockers wrote:no no, feel free to come up with pretty borders first. It's just as easy either way.

I don't see the borders very well. Can you improve them?

EDIT: Never mind got them now. But they are still a bit confusing at first glance
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Postby hulmey on Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:06 am

seems to be a consenus that the borders are not working. Suppose i dont need to elaborate but for you guys to find another way of showing the borders clearly without losing the feel. Which i think is going to be a tough job for you guys to accomplish.
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Postby Iliad on Thu Aug 16, 2007 2:45 am

After looking carefully I do understand. But maybe the borders might need to become more obvious. It's fine to me now
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Postby Spockers on Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:03 am

Iliad, most of the feedback has been that the borders are too obvious, and take away from the detail of the map.

Please explain to me how the borders are not obvious to you.
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Postby Iliad on Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:16 am

Spockers wrote:Iliad, most of the feedback has been that the borders are too obvious, and take away from the detail of the map.

Please explain to me how the borders are not obvious to you.

They were a bit weird at first glance. After I looked I got it. Just the 88's confused me for a second.

They seem okay. I think they probably should be left alone but meh.
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Postby Iliad on Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:18 am

Red is too bold. Stark is a not bold enough.

Great books and I think a great map is coming too!
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Postby KEYOGI on Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:43 am

hulmey wrote:seems to be a consenus that the borders are not working. Suppose i dont need to elaborate but for you guys to find another way of showing the borders clearly without losing the feel. Which i think is going to be a tough job for you guys to accomplish.

I'm not sure I follow you hulmey.

Those for the current borders:
edbeard wrote:good jobs guys. borders are done with in my opinion.

Xyl wrote:I love the new border style. :D

DiM wrote:the new borders make it a whole lot easier to get around the map. still not very easy like on other maps but they do their jos and with a bit of attention i guess they're ok.

Iliad wrote:They seem okay. I think they probably should be left alone but meh.


Those against:
hulmey wrote:I doubt this map would see much play on it if you leave the borders how they are. Its very hard to see were the borders start etc...~Greeat idea though but sadly not very pratical!!!

Voryn wrote:Yeah, just work on the borders more. You still need to have them more clearly defined.

Evil Pope wrote:In regards to the borders(which are not right for this map), what if you tried more subtle divisions(dotted lines, really thin lines, something else?), which are easily distinguished but don't overpower or detract from the map as these do, and simply highlighted the borders between "continents" with thier respective color, rather than the internal borders as well.


And the people who don't like the borders dislike them for completely opposite reasons, they're either too bold or not bold enough.

I think it's safe to let things run over the weekend and see if there's anymore border discussion. Remember, there's also a bunch of posts from people who don't mention the borders at all, so I'm guessing they're ok with them too. I'm not about to make a second overhaul of the borders if I don't need to. :wink:
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Postby hulmey on Thu Aug 16, 2007 3:51 am

2 pf the people who have said "aye" dont even feel they are at the maximum. More like oh i suppose so rather than oh well done your borders are ace!!!!

And ed beard kinda of likes everything, judging by his posts in most threads!!

If your gonna make a map make it worth playing on because this map isnt going to see the light of day and honestly i doubt many people will play on it and that would be a shame!!!
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Postby Dmunster on Thu Aug 16, 2007 8:58 am

About the borders: The red, green and dark blue borsders do seem to stand out a little more than the rest. If anything I suppose you could tone those down. I believe the borders need to be thin on this map. The landmass is too thin for lines that are really bold. I think toning down the border lines and maybe using some kind of subtle watermark to differentiate the countries is optimal. You dont want to run the risk of cluttering such a small pallette.
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Postby KEYOGI on Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:16 am

Ok, we have a rather dramatic overhaul in mind so there won't be any updates for a while as a large portion of the map is going to have to be redrawn from scratch.
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Postby edbeard on Fri Aug 17, 2007 1:40 am

hulmey wrote:edbeard kinda of likes everything, judging by his posts in most threads!!

well you pretty much hate everything so our opinions cancel each other out!

seriously though, the majority of the time I find myself having the complete opposite opinion as you

anyway, look forward to seeing the overhaul
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