ObamaCare - exchanges ,report your states options!

[BigBallinStalin]

then I will give you one piece of advice: Prioritize and Focus. If you did that, you may have 100 less posts on CC, but you MIGHT have insurance. Multi-tasking, in your case, seems to do two things half assed. You accomplish nothing.

Again, you just don't know what you are talking about. Yes, prioritizing does matter, but it is my CC posts, not my conversations that sometimes fail. I post when I am on hold, so I can stay better focused, not lose my temper so easily. Then when I get someone, I fastpost. Granted, I should just save, but that takes more thought.

"What is it that you actually do here?"

[Phatscotty]

Player is a bot. It just picks out the wrong thing to say and says it, ALL THE TIME!

[PLAYER57832]

Player is a bot. It just picks out the wrong thing to say and says it, ALL THE TIME!

Yeah, I did get bogged down in refuting allegations.

[PLAYER57832]

Now, to get back to the real debate:

Except, this isn't even about "every man for himself", because the truth is that socialized health care COSTS LESS.

She can't tell where she heard that, just that she heard it. So it must be true.

what motivates her?

I've seen her completely ignore facts and logic about increased costs when it comes to socialized health care. She's an ideologue that ignores reality.

Funny from a group who is doing EXACTLY that:
(Note bolding added by me for clarity)

TRUTH:

First in Spending 37th in Overall Performance
The United States spends the most money in the world on its health care system, as a percentage of GDP, and ranks 37th in overall performance. The United States' life expectancy rate of 78-years-old is indicative of a good health care system. However, it is important to remember that although the U.S. spends more money than any other country, we are only ranked 50th in life expectancy. In general when the U.S. health care system is compared to other developed nations in Europe and Asia, it does not do as well as might be expected. France, for example, spends considerably less the United States on health care, and yet it is ranked the highest in the world for overall performance.

Here is a list of the top 10 countries in terms of health care costs per capita: Luxembourg ($4,992)
Denmark ($3,239)
United States ($3,076)
Netherlands ($2,785)
Austria ($2,737)
France (2,727)
Germany (2,664)
Iceland ($2,628)
Canada ($2,587)
Sweden ($2,583)

Top 10 Spenders by GDPAdditionally, the report provides information on national health care spending as percentage of gross domestic product (GDP). The United States is number one when it comes to health care spending as percentage of GDP. Here are the top 10 countries:

United States (15.8%)
France (11.0%)
Denmark (10.8%)
Switzerland (10.8%)
Germany (10.6%)
Austria (10.2%)
Canada (10.0%)
Sweden (9.2%)
Spain (8.4%)
Japan (8.1%)

YET:

Health Care Outcomes WorldwideOne of the most important measures of health is life expectancy at birth. According to the CIA World Factbook the United States ranks 50th in life expectancy out of 224 countries. Here is a list of the top 10 countries:
Macau (84.36)
Andorra (82.51)
Japan (82.12)
Singapore (81.98)
San Marino (81.97)
Hong Kong (81.86)
Australia (81.63)
Canada (81.23)
France (80.98)
Sweden (80.86)

source for all the above data: http://www.suite101.com/content/where-t ... z14Dtf9Irh

Don't like that source? Try these:

A nice VISUAL chart here:
http://www.visualeconomics.com/healthca ... 010-03-01/

Here, from 2006:

(Reuters) - The United States spends more on healthcare than any other country in the world but has higher rates of infant mortality, diabetes and other ills than many other developed countries.

Here is a comparison of the United States' healthcare costs versus those of selected other countries in 2006:
UNITED STATES: 15.9 pct of GDP, $6,657 per capita

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5504Z320090601

Here, from 2003 (and earlier years .. comprehensive Charts):
posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=2853294
(tried to paste charts, but could not)


OR, try your own search, just input "world per capita healthcare costs"

So, STILL trying to claim we pay so much less than everyone else?

[PLAYER57832]

To get back to this:
here it is a quote where Nadar addresses NIH and research (from his 2008 campaign pledges):

Enforce fair drug prices if sponsored by govt research
Since the early 1980s, the government has routinely given away the fruits of the research it sponsors, granting private companies exclusive, royalty-free rights to commercialize government-financed inventions while failing to include reasonable pricing requirements in the licenses.
In the critical area of pharmaceuticals, this research giveaway policy leads to superprofiteering by drug manufacturers, who charge unconscionably high prices for important medicines-costing consumers, and often resulting in the denial of treatment to consumers who are unable to pay high prices.

Where the government hands an annual billion-dollar revenue earner [like exclusive licenses to distribute government-researched medicines] to a private company for a pittance, is it too much to ask the relevant federal agency to enforce reasonable pricing requirements? This has resulted in a failure to avert preventable cancer deaths. Shame clearly will not work as a disciplinary force to limit corporate welfare abuses.

LINK: http://www.ontheissues.org/Archive/Corp ... h_Care.htm

As per whether Nader agreed with the Healthcare reform bill or not, it's irrelevant to this post. The accusation often lobbied about so-called "socialized medicine" is that without profit research would not happen. Well.. real ground-breaking research doesn't happen right now, for that very reason. Only, right now, people think its all about drug companies. Drug companies do great for stuff like "Viagra", but malaria? no. They won't even produce medicines for rare diseases, at least not without the orphan drug law.

As to why he might be opposed. Nader tends to be an "all or nothing" guy. It's great for rhetoric, but not great for actually getting stuff done. We need guys like him... we need more of them. However, such revolutionary thinkers are generally not the ones making the laws we live by. They are the ones prodding those who make the laws.

[Juan_Bottom]

Yes, prioritizing does matter, but it is my CC posts, not my conversations that sometimes fail.

I completely agree with you Player, & you kick ass here.
So often times it happens, that I start reading a thread and make a small list in my head of what to say or google only to find that you already said it.
& run-on, smun-on

The whole point of removing the over-regulations is that people can then truly shop for the plans that best fit them, which is the only way to actually lower costs.

Why?

[saxitoxin]

Player, por favor .. please do not profane Nader's (we can forgive the rest of your atrocious spelling, but Nader's sacred name is the line in the sand) theology in a thread defending the pig Democrats.

If your familiarity with Nader's position is deeper than a 3-keyword search on bing-dot-com you'll find he called for the healthcare reform bill you're defending to be voted down rather than the debate turned into a giant giveaway to the health insurance mega-corporations who bankrolled Obama's* campaign, as happened. (http://www.counterpunch.org/nader08182009.html)

* or "Uncle Tom" as Nader calls Obama

[bradleybadly]

Oh, yes, note the date 1980 ... care to remember who was in office back then???? It sure wasn't a Liberal commie Democrat!!!!!

Not true, Jimmy Carter was absolutely president in 1980

[Phatscotty]

Yes, prioritizing does matter, but it is my CC posts, not my conversations that sometimes fail.

[Barramundi Dan]

Oh and guess what? It did not cost him a cent.

Who paid for it?

Australian tax payers payed for it.

So your dad doesn't pay taxes?


He is retired now but he paid taxes all of his long working life. Some of his taxes helped pay for the health care of other peoples fathers. Tax is the price you pay to be part of a civilized nation.

[jbrettlip]

Don't like that source? Try these:

A nice VISUAL chart here:
http://www.visualeconomics.com/healthca ... 010-03-01/

Here, from 2006:

(Reuters) - The United States spends more on healthcare than any other country in the world but has higher rates of infant mortality, diabetes and other ills than many other developed countries.

Here is a comparison of the United States' healthcare costs versus those of selected other countries in 2006:
UNITED STATES: 15.9 pct of GDP, $6,657 per capita

Link: http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE5504Z320090601

Here, from 2003 (and earlier years .. comprehensive Charts):
posting.php?mode=quote&f=8&p=2853294
(tried to paste charts, but could not)


OR, try your own search, just input "world per capita healthcare costs"

So, STILL trying to claim we pay so much less than everyone else?[/quote]

Player, when you have a degree in statistics and medicine, and pay for health care then you can talk.

[GreecePwns]

Oh you got her all right. Sure, her story is nothing that should be part of a debate. So she went to statistics like you wanted and now her problem is that she doesn't have a degree in statistics.

[jbrettlip]

Oh you got her all right. Sure, her story is nothing that should be part of a debate. So she went to statistics like you wanted and now her problem is that she doesn't have a degree in statistics.

Actually if you look back through the posts, I wasn't arguing health care with her for quite a while. I was arguing her lack of responsible behavior and bemoaning the system for her shortcomings. She then told me I wasn't qualified to discuss since I don't have a degree in business law. I was simply turning the table of her convoluted logic on her.

[jbrettlip]

And those statistics hardly paint a complete picture of health care. Just as saying, George Bush ruined the US economy, it is too large and dynamic a sector to try and quantify. There are too many variables out there. We are the heaviest nation in the world. That is not due to lack of health care, but more to lack of people who will take responsibility to exercise and eat right. (Or McDonalds and Coca cola, if you hate corporations). She has posted these stats several times, and seems to think that all the news about socialized medicine running into financial problems or having limited care is fabricated.

Oh yeah, SHE IS ON CC 10 hours a day, lamenting the fact that her family has no job and health care!! And calls me an idiot, when I have both. And when she was caught in a flat out lie about taxes, she has said "I was doing too many things at once, and simply misspoke". No you didn't, you lied thinking no one would call you on it. Just like most of the people she votes for.

[saxitoxin]

Oh and guess what? It did not cost him a cent.

Who paid for it?

Australian tax payers payed for it.

So your dad doesn't pay taxes?

He is retired now but he paid taxes all of his long working life.

So it did "cost him a cent."

You seem to be confused that Quentin Bryce descended from the air in a magic carriage and gifted it to him for free. He paid. There was just a middleman involved because the State determined he wasn't competent to handle his own affairs.

[oVo]

Just like most of the people she votes for.

Isn't ALL THE PEOPLE WE VOTE FOR closer to the truth?
Did Rick Perry capture your vote with the "facts" he broadcast
all across Texas over the last two months?

[jbrettlip]

Yes, OVo, politician's are bad. Rick Perry is not very honest, either. But the incessant "I didn't say that" or "it was taken out of context" sure seems to be used more by people with -D by their name.

[saxitoxin]

Oh you got her all right. Sure, her story is nothing that should be part of a debate. So she went to statistics like you wanted and now her problem is that she doesn't have a degree in statistics.

A word to the wise, you don't want to hitch your horse to Player's wagon.

[jbrettlip]

Oh you got her all right. Sure, her story is nothing that should be part of a debate. So she went to statistics like you wanted and now her problem is that she doesn't have a degree in statistics.

A word to the wise, you don't want to hitch your horse to Player's wagon.

Especially because she needs the government to come take some of my horses to pull her wagon forward.

[saxitoxin]

Oh you got her all right. Sure, her story is nothing that should be part of a debate. So she went to statistics like you wanted and now her problem is that she doesn't have a degree in statistics.

A word to the wise, you don't want to hitch your horse to Player's wagon.

Especially because she needs the government to come take some of my horses to pull her wagon forward.

I wasn't talking about that.

I was only suggesting GreecePWNS take a look at the vast canon of her posting history here, and her rather --- unconventional --- mannerisms, before he elects to go for a roll in the hay on the basis of one or two posts she made with which he may have found some common ground ...

[PLAYER57832]

And those statistics hardly paint a complete picture of health care. Just as saying, George Bush ruined the US economy, it is too large and dynamic a sector to try and quantify. There are too many variables out there. We are the heaviest nation in the world. That is not due to lack of health care, but more to lack of people who will take responsibility to exercise and eat right. (Or McDonalds and Coca cola, if you hate corporations). She has posted these stats several times, and seems to think that all the news about socialized medicine running into financial problems or having limited care is fabricated.

No, I have referred to those stats several times. Others have done the posting. As for socialized medicine running into financial problems and limited care.. You imply that is something NOT happening here. In fact, insurance companies for all but the "cadillac" plans do limit care. Except, instead of just admitting that is what they do, they print out brochures claiming they offer this or that... and then comb through to find any excuse they can do deny payment. THAT was the point of what I said. We should have insurance, but like millions of others, more than a couple decades of payment means nothing.

[deleted personnal attack portions -- irrelevant to thread]

[PLAYER57832]

Oh you got her all right. Sure, her story is nothing that should be part of a debate. So she went to statistics like you wanted and now her problem is that she doesn't have a degree in statistics.

Actually if you look back through the posts, I wasn't arguing health care with her for quite a while. I was arguing her lack of responsible behavior and bemoaning the system for her shortcomings. She then told me I wasn't qualified to discuss since I don't have a degree in business law. I was simply turning the table of her convoluted logic on her.

No, you tried to lecture me on legalities and behavior whilst not bothering to even consider what actually happened. In particular, that I did consult with attorneys about this.

THAT is why I said you could get back me on the law when you got a law degree.

[jbrettlip]

Oh you got her all right. Sure, her story is nothing that should be part of a debate. So she went to statistics like you wanted and now her problem is that she doesn't have a degree in statistics.

Actually if you look back through the posts, I wasn't arguing health care with her for quite a while. I was arguing her lack of responsible behavior and bemoaning the system for her shortcomings. She then told me I wasn't qualified to discuss since I don't have a degree in business law. I was simply turning the table of her convoluted logic on her.

No, you tried to lecture me on legalities and behavior whilst not bothering to even consider what actually happened or that I might just have a clue about how the law pertains to my personnal situation. THAT is why I said you could get back me on the law when you got a law degree.

I do know the law says the employer has to provide you with the paperwork. You are bitching about how they didn't. I advised that if it were ME, I would have done things very differently and my outcome would have been the continuation of my family's health insurance. Not crying about how evil the insurance industry is and how everyone is out to get me. You don't need a law degree for that, in fact you probably only need about half a brain.

[jbrettlip]

Hey where's the post where you decided again that you have paid more than me due to our ages??? Deleted already?

[PLAYER57832]

deleted by poster