Jesus Freaks...why do you believe?

[Beastly]

Respect and Obey perhaps, but I doubt seriously everyone would fall madly in love with the creature that created disease...that allowed loved ones to suffer, that stood idly by as the world was at war and let children die of hunger.

From what I have understood...

God did not create diseases, he heals. from what I understand that instead of standing by idly he has provided Christians with what is called armor to fight against the evil.

In the bible it talks about horrible things happening in countries that have no believers.

Mother Teresa, she was human, and I have now unwaivering faith, however I don't understand all. I still am in wonderment about much. She did not lose her faith for not praying. She did not lose her faith because she questioned and didn't understand all things about God.

As far as seeing is believing. If you saw God in all his glory, think what that may do to you. I don't think anybody in the bible ever saw God.

So all the believers in the world, are wrong, when none have ever seen him? Don't you ever think that maybe they believe because they seen the difference in non-belief and belief. I mean to actually have a belief you have to study, what you don't believe. I know that I use to read in the bible, but I didn't even understand what I was reading. It was really hard. Now, it is so simple to me. I Don't understand that either.

God does not Create any Evil. The believers are here to make and fight against all that is evil.

Satan who was a angel was thrown out of heaven, was given this earth. He is the lord of this earth. God's people are here to make things better. That is why people disagree so much about God. IF we all were in one accord, believing, things in this world would be much smoother.

from the beginning evil existed according to the bible. God did not create the evil.. It was here before man.

[satanspaladin]

Respect and Obey perhaps, but I doubt seriously everyone would fall madly in love with the creature that created disease...that allowed loved ones to suffer, that stood idly by as the world was at war and let children die of hunger.

From what I have understood...

God did not create diseases, he heals. from what I understand that instead of standing by idly he has provided Christians with what is called armor to fight against the evil.

In the bible it talks about horrible things happening in countries that have no believers.

Mother Teresa, she was human, and I have now unwaivering faith, however I don't understand all. I still am in wonderment about much. She did not lose her faith for not praying. She did not lose her faith because she questioned and didn't understand all things about God.

As far as seeing is believing. If you saw God in all his glory, think what that may do to you. I don't think anybody in the bible ever saw God.

So all the believers in the world, are wrong, when none have ever seen him? Don't you ever think that maybe they believe because they seen the difference in non-belief and belief. I mean to actually have a belief you have to study, what you don't believe. I know that I use to read in the bible, but I didn't even understand what I was reading. It was really hard. Now, it is so simple to me. I Don't understand that either.

God does not Create any Evil. The believers are here to make and fight against all that is evil.

Satan who was a angel was thrown out of heaven, was given this earth. He is the lord of this earth. God's people are here to make things better. That is why people disagree so much about God. IF we all were in one accord, believing, things in this world would be much smoother.

from the beginning evil existed according to the bible. God did not create the evil.. It was here before man.

If its as you say and evil was hear before mankind ,

Does that not contradict the bible in that god created ALL. ?

[Neutrino]

God did not create diseases, he heals.

God created everything. Therefore he created diseases too.

from what I understand that instead of standing by idly he has provided Christians with what is called armor to fight against the evil.

This armor is better known as...?

From what I can tell from your description, 100% of Christians are Paragons of all that is Good, are clad in 6 inches of power armor, can detect evil just by looking at someone and have all roundhouse kicked satan in the face at least twice...

I'd like to meet some of these Hyper-Christians. They'd certainly solve my deamon infestation quickly and efficiently.

In the bible it talks about horrible things happening in countries that have no believers.

And horrible things are happening, right now, in countries of all types, whether infested with believers or not.

I'd swear Beastly was joking with some of this stuff, but she sounds absolutely serious...

[heavycola]

God did not create diseases, he heals.

God created everything. Therefore he created diseases too.

Well yeah, if he created all living things... bacteria and viruses are amazing organisms. If i had created them I would be well chuffed with myself.

So god creates the incredibly successful smallpox virus, then waits thousands of pain and death-filled years before inspiring some bright scientist to invent the vaccine. Isn't he benificent?

[Napoleon Ier]

problem of evil...last resort of the flailing atheist faced with superior intellectual power

[Neoteny]

Btw, Neoteny, I DO apologize, not for the content of my arguments, which I stand by, but for my tone. I allowed myself to get "pissed off" and worded my response in an unnecessarily insulting manner. Please forgive me.

Meh, it happens from time to time in a passionate discussion. I actually just talked about that in a pm with CrazyAnglican. I apologize for my tone, however I do not apologize for my intent, or if you get insulted. If I think you're wrong, I will say so.

[vtmarik]

problem of evil...last resort of the flailing atheist faced with superior intellectual power

May I ask you then how you bridge that massive cognitive gap?

[Backglass]

problem of evil...last resort of the flailing atheist faced with superior intellectual power

The only flailing going on here is you hopelessly clinging to your ancient rituals and superstitions in order to make it through the day.

[Napoleon Ier]

No, you choose to ignore the cries for God of your soul becauseit would cause too radical changes inyour lifestyle, you prefer to live in blissful ignorance (of God and the Christian life, Im notcalling you stupid).

[heavycola]

No, you choose to ignore the cries for God of your soul becauseit would cause too radical changes inyour lifestyle, you prefer to live in blissful ignorance (of God and the Christian life, Im notcalling you stupid).

Actually i have pinpointed the cries of my soul as being for either Allah or possibly L Ron Hubbard. But they're definitely not for the Xian god. What should I do?

[got tonkaed]

No, you choose to ignore the cries for God of your soul becauseit would cause too radical changes inyour lifestyle, you prefer to live in blissful ignorance (of God and the Christian life, Im notcalling you stupid).

Actually i have pinpointed the cries of my soul as being for either Allah or possibly L Ron Hubbard. But they're definitely not for the Xian god. What should I do?

pretty sure you have to get a hold of tom cruise or learn arabic.

[Backglass]

No, you choose to ignore the cries for God of your soul becauseit would cause too radical changes inyour lifestyle, you prefer to live in blissful ignorance (of God and the Christian life, Im notcalling you stupid).

Much like you know what all homosexuals think, it seems you can extend this talent to non-christians as well.

Let me play your game! <clears throat> YOU choose to follow ancient rituals & superstitions because you fear death, believe evil demons lurk behind every tree and don't have the mental capacity to throw away your security blanket and live with a free mind. The paranoia and fear of flying without a safety net would paralyze you, so you choose to live in blissful ignorance with your fantasies of a conveniently absent heavenly father-figure to replace your own absent earthly one. (but I am not calling you stupid).

See how that works? An eye-for-an-eye and all.

Feel free to continue to live your life for a dreamland after death. I will live my life in the here & now.

[CrazyAnglican]

Hi Neo,
Kudo’s on the subtle shift away from an untenable situation. We were talking about the possible reasons why God does not act, and I made the perfectly reasonable statement that my suppositions are as valid as anyone else’s in this regard. Then, you come back with an indictment of Christianity as encouraging apathy and laziness? On what grounds, merely because you suppose belief in an afterlife would do that?

It is absolutely asinine to think that you (without even knowing a great number of us) can sit in judgment of our moral character simply because we believe in an afterlife. Did it occur to you that given the many exhortations, in the Holy Bible and from Christ himself, to give alms and be charitable that believing in an afterlife would have the opposite effect rather than the one that you suggest? Not “There, there it will be alright once you die” (Seriously, who exactly do you think believes that?), but “I have to love my neighbor in order to reach that afterlife anyway”. Even this innocuous statement isn't correct among Christians, who instead are encouraged to the belief that "I must love my neighbor because it is God's will and Christ's command". Do you have any evidence to support your claim?

If you can, please cite anything from an actual Christian document to support your supposition other than mere conjecture and anecdote (Yes, I’ve met some atheists who were miserable misanthropes, thankfully they are the minority on both sides, it really doesn’t prove that atheism or Christianity themselves encourage this). To post a picture of a scene of misery and suggest that your opposition feels no pity for the individual is nothing short of an attempt to dehumanize them, and that my friend is disgusting.

I’m not claiming superior moral character to anyone. If atheism drives you with a sense of urgency to go out and help your fellow man, that’s great by all means remain an atheist. I’ve said many times I’m not out to convert anyone anyway. There are arguments, even among atheists (see below), which point to the great amount of aid that goes to others through Christian charities though. It is inescapable to conclude from this that the many churches and religiously affiliated charities are helping others on as great a scale as possible everyday. The person I quoted goes on to speak of great charity on the part of individual atheists. It might seem odd that I've quoted him, but I do not deny the charity atheists; I'm just wondering why you would deny the charity of Christians.

“While these criticisms are usually made without any shred of substantiation, I wouldn't be terribly surprised if a study were to be done that found that religious believers, on average, do perform more charity work than atheists. If such a thing were found, I would expect that it isn't because religion makes people morally better than atheism. Rather, it would be because churches often organize charitable activities and exhort their members to participate, while atheists, as of yet, have no comparable social structure. Such a finding could be explained not by superior moral sentiment among churchgoers, but simply by increased opportunity.” (http://www.daylightatheism.org/2007/05/ ... arity.html)

You’ve walked out on a metaphorical limb here, the same limb that the above author does. Do you really know the motives for another person’s gift, even one other person’s gift? How then could you know the motives for gifts from millions of others? Your argument seems to be an attempt to state that you feel more deeply the suffering of others than those who believe in an afterlife. I suppose that you think it is true, but you can never really have any idea how keenly others feel that empathy as well. You can only observe what charitable actions they take. A forthright observation of this subject could only show that Christians, in general, are very charitable. It is easy enough to Google "Christian Charities", as a start, and see what you find there.

[CrazyAnglican]

Much like you know what all homosexuals think, it seems you can extend this talent to non-christians as well.

Hey Backglass!

You called him on a logical fallacy! Cool!

CA

[Napoleon Ier]

Much like you know what all homosexuals think, it seems you can extend this talent to non-christians as well.

Hey Backglass!

You called him on a logical fallacy! Cool!

CA

and where does the heretic see a logical fallacy?

[Spockers]

This blog will tell you all you need to know about jesus.

http://excitedbigkev.wordpress.com/

[Chris7He]

No offense to God, but here's a paradox for him http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Epicurean_paradox.

[Mr_Adams]

my question: why do non-believers who hate evangelistic christians always provoke discussion about chritianity?

my answer: Thier hungry for christ in thier life and just can't get themselves to admit thier inermost needs.

[Backglass]

Much like you know what all homosexuals think, it seems you can extend this talent to non-christians as well.

Hey Backglass!

You called him on a logical fallacy! Cool!

CA

and where does the heretic see a logical fallacy?

Ooooooooh....he called you out CA. Let loose some of your holy whoop-ass!

my question: why do non-believers who hate evangelistic christians always provoke discussion about chritianity?

my answer: Thier hungry for christ in thier life and just can't get themselves to admit thier inermost needs.

Ahhh yes the old "You secretly desire a cult" response.

Typical. Are you jays neighbor?

(FYI: None of the religious argument threads have been started by atheists)

[CrazyAnglican]

Ooooooooh....he called you out CA. Let loose some of your holy whoop-ass!

No way dude. I'm just jealous, you did it in a tenth of the words I would have used. (okay maybe 1%)

Sorry for butting in Napoleon I actually only looked at his response not your original message.

[got tonkaed]

my question: why do non-believers who hate evangelistic christians always provoke discussion about chritianity?

my answer: Thier hungry for christ in thier life and just can't get themselves to admit thier inermost needs.

my response to your question....as evangelical christians have become increasingly political, they have increased their voice (and by all standards i guess this isnt a bad thing) about social issues, which could in some way affect me. Therefore, when discussions of these issues frequently involve religious justifications ie you cannot abort because you are killing a child, we are then compelled to discuss the belief system behind the political point.

If everyone lived on islands, no one would have to worry about what anyone else thought. But since we have to all make this work together, we are going to end up discussing differences in thought, and in belief systems.

[satanspaladin]

Why is it every time I go shopping with my girl.
I am all ways getting a lay preacher or minister on a microphone.
In the middle of town were I live telling me I’m dammed to hell .
And I have to repent my sin’s .

I know my live style is not compatible with Christian values .
But when did it become a preachers job ,or a christens job to judge me.

If I was to follow in a Christian way then I would have the choices to
Reject god would I not ?

So why when I choose to reject god and exercise my free will .
I still get the lectures ! It is my soul is it not ,if I have one .

[Snorri1234]

But when did it become a preachers job ,or a christens job to judge me.

Some people forget they're following Jesus.

[Napoleon Ier]

because cornmarket street is public and in Britain you have freedomof speech He is trying to be kind to you.hethinks he is saving your soul from eternal damnation. Why is it atheists always oppose debate? He can say what he likes

[Mr_Adams]

all ways
dammed

All ways= always
dammed= damned