Thread to discuss American Military Pos. for non-americans

[nietzsche]

Why for non-americans? Well, because:

I keep seeing arguments like "Oh no, we didn't kill those many in Libya, they were less, we are alright we don't kill that many" WTF? Who gives the right to Americans to go all over the world putting bases, using the interests of power-hungry parties in order to perpetuate a dominance over the lives of whole countries (the people of those countries) ?

They are strong, so they do it. That's the answer, but IMO that takes away their right to claim moral high-ground.

That's my opinion but then I'm very simple minded when it comes to those topics, I don't know much but I feel that I know enough to say that America as far as it goes all over the world killing people in the name of Peace (yes, it's alright to laugh) has lost any right respect to the rest of the world.

First off, I saw Juan post this picture in another thread, of American bases in the Middle East. Doesn't it bother you that they are bullying these countries and they act like they are civilized?

[jimboston]

This thread should be locked. You can't ban a group of CC'ers simply because you don't like where they live.

MODS please close this thread.

Nietzsche... please reopen a new thread to discuss American Military dominance / abuse that's inclusive.

[nietzsche]

This thread should be locked. You can't ban a group of CC'ers simply because you don't like where they live.

MODS please close this thread.

Nietzsche... please reopen a new thread to discuss American Military dominance / abuse that's inclusive.

No. I can pretty much do what I want.

The reason for don't wanting Americans is that they come with stupid reasons their media feeds them. When they think of invading a country, they are mainly worried in how much money it would cost them instead of how many they will kill. After they've killed thousands and completed their primary purpose that normally is to put some group in power that does what they want they say they've brought democracy to that country because now they eat twinkies and big macs.

They normally have a number of how many have killed, but this is only to oppose to the current president, as it's a costume, like the second most popular sport in the country, not because they really care of innocent dead.

Again, you do it because YOU CAN, you are the bully of the world. But it deeply disturbs me that the bully goes to church and claims to beat everybody else because he's got their best interest in mind.

[Funkyterrance]

Lets start a discussion by excluding a huge number of people. Sounds very productive.
Also, am I the only one that sees the terms of this thread as slightly cowardly? You can start a discussion if you like but excluding people makes you appear weak indeed.

[maxfaraday]

I suggest we create 2 subforum:

1 for Americans to discuss US politics.
1 for non-Americans to discuss US politics.

Each of these two forum will have their own two subfoum:

1 for domestic US politics.
1 for foreign US politics.

That should do the trick.

[Ray Rider]

Much as you may be hostile to US dominance, and specifically when they exercise the might of their military force, you do have to admit that it has been the most restrained superpower in history (especially when you consider the opportunities for global domination the US has had post-WWII and after the collapse of the USSR). Don't believe me, look at the British Empire, the Russians, Spanish, Mongols, Ottomans, Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc.

Much as I disagree with US foreign policy and the multitude of wars they seem to constantly become mired in, I do have to admit that without the US as our friendly neighbor to the South who carries a big stick, we Canadians would not enjoy the quality of life we now enjoy--instead our money would be poured into expanding and upgrading our measly military of 70,000 souls in order to adequately patrol and defend the second largest nation on earth.

I suggest we create 2 subforum:

1 for Americans to discuss US politics.
1 for non-Americans to discuss US politics.

Each of these two forum will have their own two subfoum:

1 for domestic US politics.
1 for foreign US politics.

That should do the trick.

lol

[nietzsche]

Much as you may be hostile to US dominance, and specifically when they exercise the might of their military force, you do have to admit that it has been the most restrained superpower in history (especially when you consider the opportunities for global domination the US has had post-WWII and after the collapse of the USSR). Don't believe me, look at the British Empire, the Russians, Spanish, Mongols, Ottomans, Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc.

Much as I disagree with US foreign policy and the multitude of wars they seem to constantly become mired in, I do have to admit that without the US as our friendly neighbor to the South who carries a big stick, we Canadians would not enjoy the quality of life we now enjoy--instead our money would be poured into expanding and upgrading our measly military of 70,000 souls in order to adequately patrol and defend the second largest nation on earth.

lol

Hmm. I don't think I like to consider it that way. In a similar way, you could think of all the jobs that it create. Thousands of young souls that don't know what to do, can join the army, get some training and come back a little more mature and with a nice savings account.

[chang50]

Why for non-americans? Well, because:

I keep seeing arguments like "Oh no, we didn't kill those many in Libya, they were less, we are alright we don't kill that many" WTF? Who gives the right to Americans to go all over the world putting bases, using the interests of power-hungry parties in order to perpetuate a dominance over the lives of whole countries (the people of those countries) ?

They are strong, so they do it. That's the answer, but IMO that takes away their right to claim moral high-ground.

That's my opinion but then I'm very simple minded when it comes to those topics, I don't know much but I feel that I know enough to say that America as far as it goes all over the world killing people in the name of Peace (yes, it's alright to laugh) has lost any right respect to the rest of the world.

First off, I saw Juan post this picture in another thread, of American bases in the Middle East. Doesn't it bother you that they are bullying these countries and they act like they are civilized?

Interesting map,I simply can't imagine any other country being allowed to have half that many bases in say Latin America.Look at the Cuban missile crisis,the US had missiles based in Turkey close to the USSR,but they would not tolerate Soviet controlled missile bases in Cuba.The biggest dog on the block gets to do as it pleases with what I truly think they basically see as their planet.Good luck persauding Americans their country is a bully,as you say they have assumed the moral high ground,and I can't see that altering anytime soon..
Nearly forgot...they have God on their side as well.

[fadedpsychosis]

Much as you may be hostile to US dominance, and specifically when they exercise the might of their military force, you do have to admit that it has been the most restrained superpower in history (especially when you consider the opportunities for global domination the US has had post-WWII and after the collapse of the USSR). Don't believe me, look at the British Empire, the Russians, Spanish, Mongols, Ottomans, Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc.

Much as I disagree with US foreign policy and the multitude of wars they seem to constantly become mired in, I do have to admit that without the US as our friendly neighbor to the South who carries a big stick, we Canadians would not enjoy the quality of life we now enjoy--instead our money would be poured into expanding and upgrading our measly military of 70,000 souls in order to adequately patrol and defend the second largest nation on earth.

lol

Hmm. I don't think I like to consider it that way. In a similar way, you could think of all the jobs that it create. Thousands of young souls that don't know what to do, can join the army, get some training and come back a little more mature and with a nice savings account.

funny that you would try to exclude americans and general, and military in particular (who here on the forums fits that description? oh yeah!), so in particular me... yet you praise the very thing I'm doing (getting an education and a paycheck)... oh yeah! and you're from the country that is the single largest source of illegal immigration into the US... good job keeping this one neutral!

[nietzsche]

Much as you may be hostile to US dominance, and specifically when they exercise the might of their military force, you do have to admit that it has been the most restrained superpower in history (especially when you consider the opportunities for global domination the US has had post-WWII and after the collapse of the USSR). Don't believe me, look at the British Empire, the Russians, Spanish, Mongols, Ottomans, Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc.

Much as I disagree with US foreign policy and the multitude of wars they seem to constantly become mired in, I do have to admit that without the US as our friendly neighbor to the South who carries a big stick, we Canadians would not enjoy the quality of life we now enjoy--instead our money would be poured into expanding and upgrading our measly military of 70,000 souls in order to adequately patrol and defend the second largest nation on earth.

lol

Hmm. I don't think I like to consider it that way. In a similar way, you could think of all the jobs that it create. Thousands of young souls that don't know what to do, can join the army, get some training and come back a little more mature and with a nice savings account.

funny that you would try to exclude americans and general, and military in particular (who here on the forums fits that description? oh yeah!), so in particular me... yet you praise the very thing I'm doing (getting an education and a paycheck)... oh yeah! and you're from the country that is the single largest source of illegal immigration into the US... good job keeping this one neutral!

What does Immigration has to do with it? If the US didn't need the cheap labor it would had stopped the immigration 60 years ago. But hey! what I'm I saying I forgot you guys are on moral high grounds.

And I didn't "praise" anything. The US could use the money they spend on war to give it's citizens free education and you could have an education without the wars. You got me wrong.

But you prove my point too, thanks for that: you are looking only at the opportunity of getting an education and some savings afterwards, you don't care the innocent killed, why would you?.

I never said I wanted to exclude militars, did I? I think you didn't read my posts at all. The reason I don't want Americans is that I believe that in order not to feel bad about yourselves, you have gobbled up any cover ups that your media spoon feeds you. You were told many things about how you should feel awesome because you brothers went overseas to fight for freedom. It's impossible to expect from you to deconstruct your ego and protection mechanisms and admit the truth: America goes overseas and kills innocent people, then puts people in power that will kill more innocent people, grabs the resources that belong to others and, that not being enough, they say they did it for their own good!

You (fadedp) have been fairly rational in your posts, yet in here you assumed I said 2 things I didn't, and answered throwing a nationalized Ad Eminen attack to me. Shows my point, you have conflicting thoughts in the matter, you can't help it! You belong to your nation, you are an American.

[fadedpsychosis]

What does Immigration has to do with it? If the US didn't need the cheap labor it would had stopped the immigration 60 years ago. But hey! what I'm I saying I forgot you guys are on moral high grounds.

you attack me for being an american, that's what it has to do with immigration. as for moral high ground, I never said otherwise... but what ground do you stand on? is your country free from strife, free from strong taking advantage of the weak? look inside your own borders as well my friend.

And I didn't "praise" anything. The US could use the money they spend on war to give it's citizens free education and you could have an education without the wars. You got me wrong.

did I misread when you said

Hmm. I don't think I like to consider it that way. In a similar way, you could think of all the jobs that it create. Thousands of young souls that don't know what to do, can join the army, get some training and come back a little more mature and with a nice savings account.

yet condemn me for jojning the military, getting some training, etc etc?

But you prove my point too, thanks for that: you are looking only at the opportunity of getting an education and some savings afterwards, you don't care the innocent killed, why would you?.

can't say as I've ever killed anybody... have you ever killed anybody? I know that the US military has indeed killed innocent civilians, and I think it's horribly wrong. I honestly believe there are a number of things we are doing wrong... but we do the best with what we have. I'm a grunt, a nobody. do you seriously believe those generating the military policy will listen to me? as a voter perhaps, but not as a soldier.

I never said I wanted to exclude militars, did I? I think you didn't read my posts at all. The reason I don't want Americans is that I believe that in order not to feel bad about yourselves, you have gobbled up any cover ups that your media spoon feeds you. You were told many things about how you should feel awesome because your brothers went overseas to fight for freedom. It's impossible to expect from you to deconstruct your ego and protection mechanisms and admit the truth: America goes overseas and kills innocent people, then puts people in power that will kill more innocent people, grabs the resources that belong to others and, that not being enough, they say they did it for their own good! .

"Thread to discuss American Military Pos. for non-americans" is the title of this thread no? seems rather excusionary of military to me... I would like to emphasise here: not "my brothers" though my younger brother is also in the military... me. I have gone overseas, I have had people dropping bombs on me, I have been in a country where people want me dead. you may have similar experiences at home, I wouldn't know... but despite this, I haven't bought the media bullshit, I don't think america is the hero in all this, I don't think a lot of the things you wanted to exclude americans for based on us being americans... I'm not the only one making assumptions... read my last paragraph in answer to your last sentence.

You (fadedp) have been fairly rational in your posts, yet in here you assumed I said 2 things I didn't, and answered throwing a nationalized Ad Eminen attack to me. Shows my point, you have conflicting thoughts in the matter, you can't help it! You belong to your nation, you are an American.

I maike no claims to neutrality in this one, and I'm not going to try. you attack both who and what I am in the same breath and not expect me to respond? sorry pal, not going to happen this time... though next time I try an Ad Eminem I'll make sure it rhymes better and has more anger and cursing

[BigBallinStalin]

But you prove my point too, thanks for that: you are looking only at the opportunity of getting an education and some savings afterwards, you don't care the innocent killed, why would you?.

can't say as I've ever killed anybody... have you ever killed anybody? I know that the US military has indeed killed innocent civilians, and I think it's horribly wrong. I honestly believe there are a number of things we are doing wrong... but we do the best with what we have. I'm a grunt, a nobody. do you seriously believe those generating the military policy will listen to me? as a voter perhaps, but not as a soldier.

Just following orders, right?

It has to be difficult to justify working for such an organization, or maybe it isn't because X, Y, and Z. Z = don't care. Y = UHMERICA, f*ck YEAH. X = ???

[Funkyterrance]

Nietsche, why the big chip on your shoulder anyway? We are all adults here for the most part so why don't you just focus on/exclude the Americans who act the way you describe instead of insisting that all Americans fit your little stereotypes? Better yet, don't exclude anyone and just deal with it like everyone else does. Instead of growing into a bigger fish you opt to move to a smaller pond?

[jimboston]

This thread should be locked. You can't ban a group of CC'ers simply because you don't like where they live.

MODS please close this thread.

Nietzsche... please reopen a new thread to discuss American Military dominance / abuse that's inclusive.

No. I can pretty much do what I want.

Of course you can create any non-offensive title for your thread. That doesn't mean you can "do what you want".

One thing you can't do is prevent people from posting in your thread because you don't like where they live.

I would like to participate in the conversation... but can't bring myself to discuss the original point until you change the thread title.

Please note... MODS... I find the thread title offensive. It is exclusionary, and not in the spirit of positive CC member relations.

The reason for don't wanting Americans is that they come with stupid reasons their media feeds them. When they think of invading a country, they are mainly worried in how much money it would cost them instead of how many they will kill. After they've killed thousands and completed their primary purpose that normally is to put some group in power that does what they want they say they've brought democracy to that country because now they eat twinkies and big macs.

Theynormally have a number of how many have killed, but this is only to oppose to the current president, as it's a costume, like the second most popular sport in the country, not because they really care of innocent dead.

It's nice to know that (in your opinion) all Americans have exactly the same opinions, ideas, believes, goals, and strategy reccomendations when it comes to the US involvement in world affairs.

Again, you do it because YOU CAN, you are the bully of the world. But it deeply disturbs me that the bully goes to church and claims to beat everybody else because he's got their best interest in mind.

You do have a valid point here... I would love to discuss it with you in more detail, but you're excluding me from participating in your thread.

[jimboston]

Lets start a discussion by excluding a huge number of people. Sounds very productive.
Also, am I the only one that sees the terms of this thread as slightly cowardly? You can start a discussion if you like but excluding people makes you appear weak indeed.

Also... if you want to change someone's opinion (or even the attitude / opinion of a large group of people) it's clearly a good strategy to talk ABOUT them... rather than engage said person / group in a civilized discussion. That always works.

[fadedpsychosis]

But you prove my point too, thanks for that: you are looking only at the opportunity of getting an education and some savings afterwards, you don't care the innocent killed, why would you?.

can't say as I've ever killed anybody... have you ever killed anybody? I know that the US military has indeed killed innocent civilians, and I think it's horribly wrong. I honestly believe there are a number of things we are doing wrong... but we do the best with what we have. I'm a grunt, a nobody. do you seriously believe those generating the military policy will listen to me? as a voter perhaps, but not as a soldier.

Just following orders, right?

It has to be difficult to justify working for such an organization, or maybe it isn't because X, Y, and Z. Z = don't care. Y = UHMERICA, f*ck YEAH. X = ???

I absolutely hated the team america bullshit, even when a lot of people I know thought it was funny... in this case X = are you going to trust bubba shoot-em-up to do the right thing, or are you going to do the right thing yourself? I may have no influence on policy but I damn well influence my own actions

[jimboston]

Much as you may be hostile to US dominance, and specifically when they exercise the might of their military force, you do have to admit that it has been the most restrained superpower in history (especially when you consider the opportunities for global domination the US has had post-WWII and after the collapse of the USSR). Don't believe me, look at the British Empire, the Russians, Spanish, Mongols, Ottomans, Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc.

Much as I disagree with US foreign policy and the multitude of wars they seem to constantly become mired in, I do have to admit that without the US as our friendly neighbor to the South who carries a big stick, we Canadians would not enjoy the quality of life we now enjoy--instead our money would be poured into expanding and upgrading our measly military of 70,000 souls in order to adequately patrol and defend the second largest nation on earth.

+!

Oh wait... I'm American, I can't possible believe that some (many?) of our actions involving the use of our military have been "bad". I'm clearly "not allowed" to think or believe that. The OP stated as much.

[jimboston]

Much as you may be hostile to US dominance, and specifically when they exercise the might of their military force, you do have to admit that it has been the most restrained superpower in history (especially when you consider the opportunities for global domination the US has had post-WWII and after the collapse of the USSR). Don't believe me, look at the British Empire, the Russians, Spanish, Mongols, Ottomans, Romans, Greeks, Persians, etc.

Much as I disagree with US foreign policy and the multitude of wars they seem to constantly become mired in, I do have to admit that without the US as our friendly neighbor to the South who carries a big stick, we Canadians would not enjoy the quality of life we now enjoy--instead our money would be poured into expanding and upgrading our measly military of 70,000 souls in order to adequately patrol and defend the second largest nation on earth.

lol

Hmm. I don't think I like to consider it that way. In a similar way, you could think of all the jobs that it create. Thousands of young souls that don't know what to do, can join the army, get some training and come back a little more mature and with a nice savings account.

You don't like to consider it that way?

So you disagree... or just prefer to stick your head in the sand?

[jimboston]

your brothers went overseas to fight for freedom.

Are you trying to say Americans NEVER did this?

Please be clear in your answer... either we (the USA) have or have not ever done this.

America goes overseas and kills innocent people, then puts people in power that will kill more innocent people, grabs the resources that belong to others and, that not being enough, they say they did it for their own good!

Are you trying to say that this is ALL the USA has done / does?

We only ever kill "innocents" we never kill "non-innocents"?

I just want to understand what you're saying here. Thanks

[saxitoxin]

As a sociological exercise, this could have been a very interesting thread to watch; +500 SaxBucks to nietzsche for a good idea.

His only mistake was putting the thread in the middle of a parade route ...

[Funkyterrance]

As a sociological exercise, this could have been a very interesting thread to watch; +500 SaxBucks to nietzsche for a good idea.

So those saxbucks come out about on par with Japanese yen eh?
Last time I tried to involve nietsche in a sociological exercise, specifically regarding the society known as CC, he foed me. If he didn't have an ulterior motive I could take this thread a lot more seriously. As far as an exercise I would compare this to maybe calisthenics. Maybe.

[jimboston]

As a sociological exercise, this could have been a very interesting thread to watch; +500 SaxBucks to nietzsche for a good idea.

His only mistake was putting the thread in the middle of a parade route ...

No... his mistake was was putting the thread in the middle of a parade route AND excluding all parade participants and viewers from participating in the thread.

[nietzsche]

stuff

1. I'm actually from Djibouti, i'm only vacationing here in Mejique.
2. You are basically giving me the reason dude, the way you are reacting.
3. I was being sarcastic when I said the education thing in response to Ray's comment.
4. You and jimboston are right though, I cannot prevent Americans for posting here, I'm merely saying that you guys are not allowed.
7. I'm not putting the blood directly in your hands, we are all humans, have feelings and for the most go through life confused and even when we think we are being very bright we are just basically in accordance with our beliefs for some time. But yes you work for an organization that kills innocent civilians.
12. Tell FunkyTerrance that he can stop now, I'm not reading any of his posts, he can stalk AoG instead.

[nietzsche]

jimboston

I'm sorry if I made you feel badly, stop hanging out with Symmetry.

I will continue to say this thread is for non-Amerikans though.

(Have I actually prevented you from posting here?)

[BigBallinStalin]