Wheel of Time Map | WOT | Tar Valon etc.

[fishfleas]

in regards to the names.... extending Andor to Toman head just made more sense gameplay wise. The Two Rivers I might consider. As for Aringill and Hadon Mirk.... I did consider Hadon Mirk and I might still switch it to that. The Waste I strategically decided to move it down a little and allow it to just be 2 territories. This is stemming off some of the games I've played with 2210 and having australia reduced to 2 territories by the nukes. It's going to simulate a buildup and then outpooring of the "aiel" I think it should be interesting with how it's laid out.

What do you think on the bonuses? Any input there?

[Marvaddin]

1st, I would like to understand the title "wheel of time".

2nd, this map is simply terrible!!
Man, its unplayable. You dont know how to design continents. Red continent, for example, has 7 countries, ALL border countries. The whole map has 4 non-border countries!! Its ridiculous...

Nothing personal, really... Its a real tip: trash it and start again.

[fishfleas]

Marvadin.... do you understand the way the map works? Have you read some of the rest of the ideas that are going to be put into it?

It's Titled Wheel of Time because it is based on the Wheel of Time Novels. The map is laid out like it is for a reason. I can still add in some rivers or woods too if needed. Some constructive criticism instead of being a jerk about it would be nice Marvadin. To think I actually was looking forward to seeing what you had to say on the bonuses and layout..... I expected more from you ..... Thanks for nothin Marvadin

[Marvaddin]

Thats all right, no need to thank me.
Am I a jerk? How will we discuss the bonuses if you will place rivers and forests yet? After write that post, I saw the city ideas, but I thought even an edit was unnecessary. The map is terrible, anyway. Although the city idea is not so bad, its being badly implemented, I think. How will you place the names and numbers of these "cities" without make a confusion with the territories names and numbers?
Want a good suggestion? Trash it and start again. And, as I said before, its not personal, so dont become agressive, please. Only say here if you dont want my help.

[fishfleas]

The Cities and Towers are going to have their numbers on them.... that is why the images for them are a bit bigger. I'm not going to name the cities on the map, rather it will be clear in the attack and move boxes which ones are which.... such as.... City of Illian.... and what not. I'm going to have a brief explanation on the map itself on how the cities function, so there isn't much confusion on that. the map layout in general is good, although I May need to add a river here or ther and add in a forest. Things like that that are impassable barriers. If you are looking for drastic land changes then it wouldn't be Wheel of Time. Any input on the best areas to look at adding in some impassable boundaries is welcome. Quit saying that I should start from scratch though, because honestly this is still very basic, and I can make changes to it very easily since everything on the map is layers.

[Jota]

Are the continent boundaries based directly on the source material, or is there some flexibility with them? If you can, it might not be a bad idea to either break apart Andor (dividing its countries amoung the neighboring continents) or else to enlarge it (having letting it absorb some of the surrounding countries). It really does have far too many borders to be of practical value. This is also true of the Northern Territories, the Borderlands, and (to a lesser degree) the Blight. Maybe those four continents could be merged into two larger ones?

[fishfleas]

Thanks for the input. The Borderlands really should remain as they are.... although I'll brainstorm on it.... As with Andor I'll think it through. As it is right now Andor is what you see right there except I took the liberty to add Toman Head and Almoth Plain into Andor.... I felt that they didn't fit very well into other continents. My friend though has given me an idea on how to break that apart a bit and still keep the Wheel of Time Feel to it. It means yet another continent but I'm going to look into it.

[argyll72]

fishfleas you suck at life. Never try and do anything because what ever you do will fail. LOL. It's funny what ignorance will lead people to say. The map looks good. Not sure how it will work yet but not too shabby for the first time using Illustrator. Remember the time when Marvaddin called me a baby goat and told me I'd be up to my neck in shit for playing too much risk. LOL. I wouldn't take what he says too seriously.

-argyll72

[fishfleas]

yeah he has had some good input on some maps though..... but honestly.... he has had a chip on his shoulder towards me. So why would I expect anything else.....

[Marvaddin]

I think there is a problem here. I have nothing with you.

I apologized already to both of you, although I did nothing wrong in that game with fish, it was a misunderstanding (I really commited an error judging you, argyll).

In fact, this map is terrible, I know it just because I did a map already and helped the construction of many others. How can you think this is personal, if I did it already to other maps too, like North America map? The guy was making the map changed almost all, we sent even pm to each other, and now his map is much better. I was hard to Africa map too, see my initial posts. How can you think Im posting here because I dislike you?

Well, I want no problem, I will let you make your map, and I will not comment. I will only dont play it if I think it sucks. Happy now?

[fishfleas]

Marvaddin.... I would love your input if it is constructive.....


just saying here is advice... trash it..... that tells me nothing....


If you say.... Andor is too large you shoudl look at breaking it down. THat would be alot more help. The way you stated it just made it sound like you were being really harsh and just personally attacking it. I wouldn't mind more help if you have constructive criticism on how to change it, things to add and so forth. I really think the potential is there. I can't change much in the drastic sense of the layout, the general layout is just how the map is. I'm looking at places to add Rivers, or forests, or break apart some areas. If you have some input in that regard let me know.

[Marvaddin]

Ok, let me try again...

The main problem is that your continents are toooooo linear, the south side is a bit less linear, but the north side is completely. Even if you add some rivers, etc, the map will look like this:

____ _____ ___
__ ______ ___ __
_____ _____ ___
____ ___ __ ____

Your map will seem a shelf. And this if you correct the other great error, that is the enormous number of border countries. I entered this topic and saw you wanting discuss bonuses already... what could I say? You need start again, of course.

Seriously, I dont know nothing about this "Wheel of Time", but even national maps arent THAT realistic. My idea is that you need change the general scheme now, or this map has no future... I really dont know if this Wheel of Time is a good idea... if you cant change it to be more playable, I think its a loss of time, and suggest you a map of Spain, or Phillipines (someone posted already and I believe it can be good after development).

Those cities graphics arent good too... How about some civ graphics? Maybe not original civ graphics, but fan-made graphics.

[fishfleas]

I agree with the linearity. but some of it does need to stay. One of the major changes I'm going to make might reduce that, and reduce some of the border issues that you are talking about. I have a few rivers to get put into the map too. As far as graphics.... I really am not impressed with my first round of icons for the cities and towers..... however I just found a very nice program I like better that I should be able to make some better icons on.

I'm going to take Toman Head and Almoth PLain out of andor and make them part of a Sean Chan held Continent. This isn't pushing things too far story wise..... I'm also going to take Northern Wilderness and Arod Doman and join them to that continent adding some mountains on the East side of it which are there on the real map.

From there I'm going to look at some rivers to add breaking things up a bit. 1 River I know I'm going to add is the Aringill on the east side of Aringill running along the border north of tear up towards Tar Valon. That should help a bit with that segmentation. I'm going to add in a Lake on the west side of Baerlon.


Hopefully this will all be done by tomorrow.....lol You can have a look at it then Marvadon and let me know what you think. Thanks that was a much more helpful critic

[Pristella]

Just tossing asome ideas here, as I don't have the original WoT map handy, but how about putting some unpassable areas in the map in the form of unpopulated areas. For example Caralain Grass... And if I recall correctly, the Two Rivers was storywise unaccessible from anywhere but through Baerlon area. People coming over the mountains from Ghealdan and so forth, as refugees, were an exeption, and the losses were bad... No way to move an army.

Have you read any WoT-site like http://www.wotmania.com? People there might have story-related ideas on improvement of the map within story lines. What about the book "The World of the Wheel of Time"? Ideas could also be taken from older maps in it, as in naming the countries.

I also think that no matter how the legal issues go - of those, I don't know - that you should write either the author or the publisher and ask their opinion. The artwork is your own, but using the actual name might be under copyright laws.

[fishfleas]

Some of the changes I'm going to make to the map are some things you've already mentioned. You'll see the new barriers only allow access to Emond's field by Baerlon. Good Suggestions though. Thanks Pristella

I've drawn up a revised version on paper.... now it's time for doing it on the computer. I'll get it up as soon as I can.

[niMic]

Sean Chan

Seanchan

[areon]

I have some suggestions to bring up. Falme wasn't very important so maybe you should get rid of that city and add it to Rhuidean in South Waste or Shayol Ghul. Another quick change would be to make an opening between Saldea and West Blight because it can't be borderland territory without...you know...bordering the blight

Some big change I believe would change the map up would be to have 5 instead of 6 continents for the borderlands and southerners. They would be the borderlands-but also including Tar Valon, the west coast made of Northern Wilderness-Arad Doman-Tarabon-Almoth Plain-Toman Head-
Shadow Coast, the southwest-Ghealdan-Altara-*Amadicia*-Illian-Murandy, the southeast-Tear-Mayene-Far Medding-Shangtai-Aringill, and to round it out the central-*Andor*-Cairhien-Whitebridge-Two Rivers-Baerlon-Caralain Grass.

Yeah I know Amadicia isn't on the map but you will only have to continue the southern Ghaeldan border down to the coast and name the territory under that Altara with the north Amadicia. I don't know what that blank spot is either next to Altara. I also think Four Kings should be combined with Caemlyn because it was controlled by Andor and besides that wasn't significant.

I think these divisions would be more true to the books but more importantly switch up all of these border problems. I like the idea of cities and waygates but it won't work on this site. Lack has stated that the maps should be kept simple and I don't see these additions feasible unless he oks it. Other than that I like it and was wondering about the tower in Altara?

[Cudly_Hugme]

Sounds good, but i'd recomend making a continent bonus for every city, if not a very small one. Maybe one or two points per city, depending on location. I can't wait!

[daslight]

You have the two white towers but where is the black tower?

I like your ideas about adding the SeanChin and your other changes.

Just waiting for the redesign of the mapp

[realdeal1]

i think you could add Tremalking to the map

[Linither]

I dont think andor should be made hard to hold, The very basis of Andor was to only take as much sa you can hold, perhaps make continents within continents? so the bonus escalates?

[Rahvin]

This would be an interesting idea. There are quite a few regions in WoT... so if you break it down into cities, the capturable places would amount to a rather large number.

You have Cairhien, Tear, Illian, Tar Valon, Caemlyn, and Ebou Dar as MAJOR cities...

What about the Blight, or the Aiel Waste? That would be another interesting concept.... or maybe an interesting addition to this map.

[Semirhage]

Before I give some of my ideas about the map, I would like to address a few mistakes that have been made.

SeanChin

It is actually Seanchan

What about the Blight, or the Aiel Waste? That would be another interesting concept.... or maybe an interesting addition to this map.

They are already on the map. Don't you see the purple and brown areas?

Some tips I think could benefit this map:

I think the continents should be changed almost entirely, but the countries are generally alright (with some exceptions). I will go continent by continent. Since you haven't made the updated map for it yet, I am going to suggest the following continents:

(1) I really like the idea of Seanchan held continent. It should have: Arad Domon, Almoth Plain, Tarabon, Toman Head, Shadow Coast and Tremalking (It really should be there). I think the Northern Wilderness should dissappear, as there is no need for it. Arad Domon should take over the area of Northern Wilderness. This continent will probably be the biggest, and therefore the most difficult to hold (forget Andor being difficult to hold). This is because the Seanchan really did conquer all this and were very difficult to retake. Lastly, I think the Mountains of Mist should extend all the way up to the Southern end of Saldea, so that one would have to go through Saldea to reach Arad Domon. Continent Borders: Arad Domon, Shadow Coast and Tremalking (by sea from Altara).

(2) The WhiteCloak continent: Totally remake the southern continents, in my opinion. Here's what I think. Amidicia, Ghealdan, Altara and Murandy. This would be a small continent, with three border countries (Ghealdan could only be reached through Altara and Amadicia). Make that forest south of the Two Rivers (Emonds Field), making an impassible border tween Ghealdan and Two Rivers.

(3) The Warring Cities Continent: Illian, Tear, Mayene, Far Madding and maybe the three big inner cities (Ill, Tear and Far M.). I think Mayene should only be reachable by sea from Tear, not from the Aiel Waste. This would reduce the borders by one. With the Cities included, this would come to 7 countries but only 3 borders (Don't know if this sounds okay).

(4) The Aiel Occupated Lands (during the Aiel War): Before you shoot this down, consider that the size of the Cairhien continent, as I have suggested it so far, would be too small. So why not make the Aiel waste include Cairhien and (lets pretend they held it) Aringill. Maybe rename Shangtai into Rhuidian and also make it part of the Aiel Occupated Lands. If the continent is now too big, you can do something else with Aringill (It is just awkward). How about making the border between Cairhien and Tar Valon into the Kinslayer's Dagger as well?

(5) and finally, Andor: Now that the Western countries are on their own, and the Two Rivers can only be reached through Baerlon, the borders are severly reduced. I also like the suggestion that Four Kings gets dissipated into Caemlyn (ie get rid of it.), but a better thought is to make it a small round area inside Caemlyn, obviously only reached by holding Caemlyn. I have no idea what to do with the Black Tower. With Caemlyn as a city and including Four Kings inside Caemlyn (the province), Andor now has: 3 borders (Baerlon, Caemlyn and Whitebridge) and 6 areas.

(6) I have no real problems with the Borderlands or the Blight.

The only real idea I have about the Tar valon is to make it a miniscule continent. This can be done by making the White Tower a small area (where the city Tar Valon stands) inside the area Tar Valon. Now Tar Valon (the continent) has 2 countries and 1 border, maybe worth 1 extra army.

I know this is way long. I know I sound like I want to rewrite your entire map, but this is basically the only way to sort out the borders and the linear problems. Sorry.

[AndyDufresne]

Unfortunately this map has been abandoned I believe. The original cartographer doesn't seem to be active anymore, so perhaps it should look for a new one.


--Andy

[Semirhage]

I do think this map can make it (well, its obvious if one reads my last post), if it is done up correctly. I would actually try to do it myself, if I could somehow find the time.. Maybe someday, oh well.