Deadwood Mafia Its all over! Thanks for playing

[Iliad]

Whew. 63 fucking pages.(and 1 page of twilight)
That was one long day 1. Now to work: I looked at Koesen who has been scummy in my opinion:

I see no reason for this bandwagon, seems completely unfounded and if Fir comes out town I'll have my eye on some of you bandwagoners... So fircoal, do you have a claim?

While a random kill is hard to avoid on Day One, I agree we should at the very least get a claim out of it, so that the next one is slightly less random.

I must say I was impressed by the logic of the first Fircoal vote though. Almost as good as the logic behind my vote.

So that the next bandwagon is slightly less random. Not a scumtell but look on:

Fircoal, Priests can only vote except for the hammer. Actors can only hammer. Your story falls short.

I agree. I'm not sure whether this is enough of a scumtell to justify a vote, but you (Fircoal) are contradicting yourself.

Actor is an unimportant town role. If no-one counter's he's telling the truth.

I am, in spite of everything, inclined to believe Fircoal is telling the truth and his mistake doesn't mean much, but just because he's claiming an unimportant role doesn't mean he's telling the truth if not countered. An unimportant, rarely used role would make a pretty good fake claim.

You said you have reason to believe there is an actor in this game. Would you care to elaborate?

Really? He takes the heat off fircoal. This is particularly interesting with the next oist

Now would I have had the time to look up Wiki for a role? No.

Whenever I'm scum, I have my fake claim ready before the game has really started, so that means nothing.

But this matter can easily be settled by either a mod statement or a vote count.

Yet again not something you would call that great but it certainly is interesting

she's clearly so pissed off with being voted.

Anyway for the bold part. "Told you dumbfuck heathens that I was the pope."
10 points to whoever gets it

Is this Skoffin's roleclaim? Cause it looks like it's just an expression of her being pissed. If it is a claim, I understand what you're saying, so you don't have to give more details, but I'd like to make sure that that's what it is. I'm not at all convinced yet.

As for Clive, I believe his priest claim. I'm not voting for him until a cop accuses him.

As long as I'm not sure of Skoffin, Diddle looks suspicious to me for his active support of her.

Lalaland is just hopping on another bandwagon with no further justification.

Talapus and Kwanton, I'm not completely sure of.

If neither Skoffin nor Clive are lynched, I'm willing to off browng as a compromise.

First he still pushes on Skoffin AFTER she claimed and after she claimed a poweful role. As a compromise. That doesn't sound good at all. If you don't lynch the watcher or the priest I'm willing to lynch this guy. Okay. Scummy!

Skoffin claimed watcher. Even if she suggests her watching powers are somewhat different than usual, it sounds like an important role. So right now, it makes sense for the doctor to protect her. Tomorrow, she can tell us what she did. That will be something to talk about. Tomorrow, there will be other investigation results. We won't necessarily talk about all of them, but the bottom line is that tomorrow, there will be a lot more information floating around anyway.

I believe Clive is town. Skoffin, for now, gets the benefit of my doubt. Thus, from my point of view, it makes no sense to lynch either one "just so we have something to talk about".

Now he takes the heat off skoffin and insists for ANOTHER bandwagon. It is not great for town to try to get another bandwagon happening and start from nil especially if there is no time limit

Day 1 has already reached 35 pages. Another day like this would surely kill this game off. I believe lynching Skoffin is now off the table. Thats why I think Clive is our best bet. He's been pretty scummy, and on top of that avidly trying to get a claim from skoffin, and eventually get her lynched. In any other game on a Day 1, this would be a bandwagonable offence. What makes this game any different?

Maybe I'm just a sucker, but I think Clive's defense of Fircoal suggests he is what he claims to be. He may have been overly agressive in some ways, but for me, the believe that he is probably what he claims to be, outweighs that.

I think Skoffin owes her bandwagon entirely to her own submarining style, so I'm not particularly suspicious of the people going after her. That doesn't mean there wasn't any scum on her bandwagon, but I see no evidence against anyone in particular.

Let me ask you this: why did you defend Skoffin so actively? A defense after her claim, I can understand. But you were climbing the barricades in her name long before she said anything worth rereading. Why? There is nothing in her claim that suggests you have any knowledge about her that we don't, so where did that faith come from?

This is pretty important. He tries to protect bandwagoners on skoffin. For scum it made the most sense to bandwagon Skoffin because she had the most important role. And he's trying to protect anyone who was on the most suspicious bandwagon.

Why go ahead with a lynch I don't believe in? But if RD volunteers for death, fair enough. It's not that I want Day One to drag on forever, but that's what you get when there is no deadline.

I think I've done enough hunting for today. I'll see which bandwagon develops, and if it doesn't look too bad, I'll hop on it.

I am quite sure that you will.





There's a lot of hints, which together in my opinion show that koesen is scum. I didn't even re-read day 2 yet but I have seen how he had put pressure on someone who had claimed a powerful role, then took it off and protected anyone who was on the bandwagon of the person who had the most powerful role( ). His posts of readiness of bandwagons whether to start or to hop on them and the posts where he stated he has fake role claims ready. In my opinion he is scummy:
Unvote vote koesen

[kwanton]

Kwan-ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? If you were not infamous for submarining in games, if you didn't do it on a regular basis then when something does come up and you can't post don't come crying if we lynch you or don't believe you. If submarining is your strategy you gotta know that if something real comes up you might be in trouble because we might just assume that you are submarining.

That was kind of the whole point actually. If I submarine as both scum and town no one will know what I am no matter what. Helps me spread confusion and all that jazz. And before anyone says that's BS reasoning/strategy it has worked really well in the past. And so what if something real comes up. I get a laugh everytime someone says "Oh it's kwan he's just submarining" then ignore me (and people do that quite a bit.)

Whatever tho. In the here and now I am contributing as much as possible. And just to point out another flaw in your reasoning, you expressed frustration in the fact that we will never reach a lynch if we keep ignoring submariners and noobs. How bout we lynch scum instead eh? Actually one of the best scum tactics is to divert attention towards submariners and noobs. More often than not they make great scapegoats for a controlling scum player, and the next day the town has no leads from the lynch. Also, any scum on the bandwagon can say "Oh well he was submarining" and get away with it with clean hands.

However I do agree with some of your points on koesen. READ: some All he's really done so far is make it easy for scum to pick off power roles. This may not necessarily mean he himself is scum, but at this point his inquisition is hurting more than helping.

I had more stuff mulling in my head but I have class in a bit and a response paper to write.

Toodles!

[cena-rules]

Umm anyone care to summarise the 93 pages

[Koesen]

Long post ahead, mainly because I have to quote.

I looked at Koesen who has been scummy in my opinion:

I see no reason for this bandwagon, seems completely unfounded and if Fir comes out town I'll have my eye on some of you bandwagoners... So fircoal, do you have a claim?

While a random kill is hard to avoid on Day One, I agree we should at the very least get a claim out of it, so that the next one is slightly less random.

I must say I was impressed by the logic of the first Fircoal vote though. Almost as good as the logic behind my vote.

So that the next bandwagon is slightly less random.

No, the next day will be less random.

Not a scumtell but look on:
(...snipped a bit here...)
Really? He takes the heat off fircoal.

So? Right now, Fircoal/ET has more proof for his town claim than any other surviving player. Is backing him suspicious?

This is particularly interesting with the next oist

Now would I have had the time to look up Wiki for a role? No.

Whenever I'm scum, I have my fake claim ready before the game has really started, so that means nothing.

But this matter can easily be settled by either a mod statement or a vote count.

Yet again not something you would call that great but it certainly is interesting

I'm glad you admit it isn't that great, because i't's really nothing. I take pride in my fake claims when I'm scum. Everybody knows that and it doesn't say anything about what I am here. If I have to claim here, I will, and I garantueethat after my claim the only reason people wish to lycnh me if if they think the day has gone on too long already and they want to get it over with.

she's clearly so pissed off with being voted.

Anyway for the bold part. "Told you dumbfuck heathens that I was the pope."
10 points to whoever gets it

Is this Skoffin's roleclaim? Cause it looks like it's just an expression of her being pissed. (...snip...)
As for Clive, I believe his priest claim. I'm not voting for him until a cop accuses him.

As long as I'm not sure of Skoffin, Diddle looks suspicious to me for his active support of her.

(...snip...)

If neither Skoffin nor Clive are lynched, I'm willing to off browng as a compromise.

First he still pushes on Skoffin AFTER she claimed and after she claimed a poweful role. As a compromise. That doesn't sound good at all. If you don't lynch the watcher or the priest I'm willing to lynch this guy. Okay. Scummy!

No, not okay. Not okay at all. I did NOT push for Skoffin's lynch after her claim. I unvoted and gave her the benefit of the doubt. The bit you quoted was from BEFORE she claimed.

Surely, having taken the trouble of digging through 63 pages, you must have noticed that, so why are you fabricating the myth that I continued going after Skoffin when she claimed? If anyone is scummy here, it's you.

Now he takes the heat off skoffin and insists for ANOTHER bandwagon. It is not great for town to try to get another bandwagon happening and start from nil especially if there is no time limit

I went after Skoffin for shameless submarining and when she came with a convincing claim, "I took the heat of her". How is that scummy?

Would you rather have me stay the course, like you did with Clive 1.0, and pursue a lynch I don't believe in just so nobody else will have to claim?

And how is starting from nil bad "especially if there is no time limit"? The whole point of not having a time limit is that you can explore different theories in one day, because there is no fear of a missed deadline resulting in a no lynch.

Seriously, what are you smoking?

He tries to protect bandwagoners on skoffin. For scum it made the most sense to bandwagon Skoffin because she had the most important role. And he's trying to protect anyone who was on the most suspicious bandwagon.

I already explained why I thought the bandwagon against Skoffin was not suspicious at all. I still think it wasn't. And I admitted that there might be scum on her bandwagon, but that given her own scummy behaviour, there was no evidence against anybody in particular.

There's a lot of hints

It's a lot of nothing

I have seen how he had put pressure on someone who had claimed a powerful role, then took it off and protected anyone who was on the bandwagon of the person who had the most powerful role( ).

Again, are you blaming me for unvoting when people come with a decent claim? What's your protown alternative?

Yes, I go after people. That's how evidence is collected. People who submarine do not contribute to the game at all and do not help town out at all. Without people like me, this game would be dead.

What's your suggestion, then? That I post once every twenty pages saying "ooh, that's a lot of pages, I'll reread and see if I can contribute tomorrow!"? Fat lot of good that'll do...

And as for Kwanton's suggestion that all I've done so far is make it easy for scum to pick off power roles, I disagree. Everyone who is forced to claim and does so convincingly, has a decent change to not be lynched.

Take Fircoal/ET. Very likely a protown actor. Which means borderline useless, right? Wrong, because when the game enters its final stage, the only way for scum to remain hidden is if there is doubt about the surviving townies. For now, they can and probably will leave him alone, but when the numbers dwindle, they will have to waste a kill on him, because there's no way they will get him lynched.

Same thing for Diddle's mayor. Slightly more useful, but not very much. Again, scum cannot allow him to live forever, because he too will not be lynched in the end.

And I promise you there will be a phase when confirmed townies become more dangerous for scum than power roles.

The only really good role that had been revealed, assuming everyone is telling the truth, is Skoffin's watcher. I bet she's unkillable now, because the doc will be protecting her. That means that every day, she can reveal the result of her investigations, and that's a good thing.

What do you people want? You want nobody to claim for fear of revealing a power role? That's a recipe for a scum victory. The more people convincingly claim town, the lower the number of suspects and the higher the chances we catch scum. It's not only a good way, it's the only way.

[Anarkistsdream]

Iliad, I think you may be onto something with Koesen, but I'd like to give him a chance to reply before voting him.

[Koesen]

Iliad, I think you may be onto something with Koesen, but I'd like to give him a chance to reply before voting him.

Ask and you shall receive

[Anarkistsdream]

Iliad, I think you may be onto something with Koesen, but I'd like to give him a chance to reply before voting him.

Ask and you shall receive

Damn you and your fast-posting!

Now to actually read it.

[Anarkistsdream]

Okay, that cleared Koesen in my opinion... Very responsible answers for each one.

[kalishnikov]

cocksuckers....

[Anarkistsdream]

cocksuckers....

Only on Sunday

[Sierra_Leon]

Kwanton is making sense again (apart from the part where he called me scummy), so I'll unvote him. Since nobody replied to my request to analyze crab, I did so myself. I came to the conclusion that I'm fairly neutral towards him. Here's the list like I made with lovo and nag, for those wanting to read it over:

Crab Day 1

1) random votes browng-08
2) proposes we lynch fircoal because actor is a useless role anyway and it could prove whether clive is scum or not. Remarks that shifting bandwagons could out a powerrole instead of scum. FOS Roger Dodger for jumping the fircoal bandwagon when she was already voting fircoal.
3) FOS LSU after LSU reads his post wrongly.
4) Notes that if fircoal is an actor, it doesn't prove clive priest.
5) After clive skimmingly votes him, he throws more accusations at clive.
6) Asks diddle what if AD is covering up for a fellow scum by not telling everyone what RD's hints at her role mean. Says scum are likely to have put the most research in the theme anyway.
7) Says he will unvote RD after reading up on her role.
8) Notices his vote was still on browng and leaves it there partly because he sticks to one person on day 1.
9) Responds to my post saying clive is already cleared as priest by saying he disagrees. He could be defending a townie to get off the radar. Asks for a vote count and clive's defence.
10) After reread, FOS LSU for twisting his words and being a potential lyncher, FOS diddle for protecting skoffin, vote skoffin for not contributing.
11) Unvotes skoffin after her claim, but notes she is good at fake claiming. Suggests we lynch either clive or skoffin as that would give most information. Makes list of people supporting those two.
People supporting Clive - russianfire, koesen, sierra, serbia, lovo, nagerous
People supporting Skoffin - f1fth, diddle, browng, iliad, cena, lalaland, AD, kwanton, talapus
Votes clive.
12) Explains list to AD.
13) In reply to AD's list of people posting nothing of substance: says AD should be on there in his place.
14) Accuses AD for asking for doc protection, while mandy appears more pro-town and asked for the same earlier.
15) Says doc-protection is not something private if it's in the game thread, points out that skoffin has now also requested protection.

My comments:
2) I can see how he thinks that, but I don't agree. Koesen's post just now on confirms townies explains why.
4) But in your post 2), you just suggested we lynched fircoal for that exact reason. Large minus on your account there.
5-9) I'm fairly neutral towards him in these posts. They mostly make sense and are argumented, but it's slightly suspicious in a OMGUS way that he keeps focusing on LSU and clive, who have been accusing him.
10) Apart from the lyncher remark this post makes sense too.
11) These lists are very subjective and IMO inaccurate (although it's true I was supporting clive). I think his remark on skoffin being good at fake claiming is scummy and ment to create doubt in townies. I can see how he thinks lynching either skoffin or clive would seem a good idea, but after reading koesen's post above this one I disagree.
12) AD is right there.
13) Crab is right there.
14-15) I don't think this discussion is based on much, as a smart doc would make up his own mind anyway without listening to people asking for protection. Still, your argument against AD made some sense here.

Crab Day 2

16) Replies to accusations against him. Asks clive and koesen for more explanation and replies to ga7 that he was on the skoffin wagon to get her to post more.
17) Agrees with me that scum would most likely have tried to get skoffin lynched instead of clive.
18) Replies to ga7's accusations again.
19) Says kwan is most likely to be scum or a bored townie than a jester, or he would've acted sooner.
20) finds it odd I would go over the length to assess LoVo. Mentioned it isn't complete (but is mixed up with other game).

My comments:
16) not much said there.
17) Agreeing with me is always a plus.
18) again not much said.
19) I agree.
20) Crab, you should play less game at a time, really

[Sierra_Leon]

Also, there are merits to metagaming, it gives us clear indication about playing styles, though metagaming only works on the weaker mafia players.

See, Sierra this is where metagaming can come in handy, sure we can lynch the submariners and idiots why not, but it will never produce anything really solid in regards to leads.

Yeah ok, I see your point.

Why not push for claims, if there weren't claims then pro-town roles would be lynched and it just gives the town help as we learn who is pro-town, who isn't. I've always been a believer of claiming early before some trigger-happy noob comes and hammers and when I made the fircoal claim comment he was very close to lynch and people were just making unvote vote fircoal comments, without actual contribution. I can't see why they aren't being criticised. If it wasn't for claims, especially when there is a name to go with the roles, mafia playing would be very hard and hence I've always supported them though not in every situation.

I would take you sooner for a person who would criticise them, instead of hopping on the wagon with them and pushing for an unnecessary claim. If you were town that is. That is mainly the reason why I'm going to

Unvote, vote nagerous.

[kwanton]

Back again for a couple minutes.

I guess me and koesen will have to agree to disagree. IMO the only reason to lynch noobs or submariners is if the deadline is approaching, and there's none in sight.

Also, you said that the mayor role can't be lynched? Mayors usually can't stop their own lynches. They are meant to keep other pro-towns from getting lynched indefinitely (and could do this in the right hands). But let's be serious here, realistically all they do is deprive the town of a chance to catch scum and give scum an extra night to kill. Whatever tho. Leave our mayor be for now. Let him wallow in his uselessness

Must to find pants b4 class.....

[Koesen]

You misunderstood me.

My point is not that the mayor will prevent probable townies from being lynched. My point is that town won't bother to lynch them anymore in the first place.

Let's say we get to a point where there are five people left standing: three townies and two scum. At that point, lynching the wrong person is fatal. But if two of the three are Fircoal/ET and Diddle, the chances of a wrong lynch are dramatically lower than if they are submariners nobody is sure of. Scum can't allow that to happen, and therefore they will have to spend two nightkills on relatively unimportant townies. And it would have been three if people had listened to me about Clive 1.0.

When you're scum, you have to be able to create doubt and confusion in the final stages, or else you're dead, no matter what powers the remaining townies do or do not possess.

This assumes of course that actor = protown, which is not a law of physics (but at least a high probability).

By the way, note that I'm talking about submariners: people who read the thread, write something entirely meaningless every once in a great while, while judiciously taking every night action they're capable of. Those are extremely dangerous when scum. In fact, I'm not sure I can remember Skoffin ever losing a game when she was scum.

I am NOT talking about people who are completely inactive. Those are for the mod to deal with.

[mandalorian2298]

He's trying to say that his vote is useless sincea single vote won't put mch pressure on a person. At least not enough to get any leads.

Not what I meant at all so don't speak for me. kthxbye.

Well then how about you actually participate?

So far, I see no reason not just to vote you because you aren't playing.

He said that he's from MafiaScum. I tried to play there once, but I quited because those cocksuckers play SLOOOOW.

f*ck it seems our days will never end. We don't lynch submariners because that is pointless. We don't lynch noobs because that's pointless. How the f*ck are we going to lynch someone? EVER?

It seems our days are an endless string of bandwagon to -1, claim, everyone unvotes, bandwagon, claim, unvote etc.

Now to what I want to say:

Clive-obviously a noob just asking for a lynch. He's going ot be especially annoying later on because the noob mark might save him. Has anyone thought about if a noob is playing scum and is playing it badly and gets bandwagon he could be let off the hook for being nooby? Just think about that.


Kwan-ever heard of the boy who cried wolf? If you were not infamous for submarining in games, if you didn't do it on a regular basis then when something does come up and you can't post don't come crying if we lynch you or don't believe you. If submarining is your strategy you gotta know that if something real comes up you might be in trouble because we might just assume that you are submarining.




And now I will try to re-read to find interesting information but most importantly I wanna check what Koesen has said cause there's a vibe there.

This post sounded very pro-Town for me. I never saw a Scum that got so pissed of over inactivity. IMO Iliad is pro-Town. Worst case scenario, he is a Third party, but no way is he Mafia.

P.S. I screwed up my coloring the last time. Unvote vote browng for the reason previously explained.

[Koesen]

Why not push for claims, if there weren't claims then pro-town roles would be lynched and it just gives the town help as we learn who is pro-town, who isn't. I've always been a believer of claiming early before some trigger-happy noob comes and hammers and when I made the fircoal claim comment he was very close to lynch and people were just making unvote vote fircoal comments, without actual contribution. I can't see why they aren't being criticised. If it wasn't for claims, especially when there is a name to go with the roles, mafia playing would be very hard and hence I've always supported them though not in every situation.

I would take you sooner for a person who would criticise them, instead of hopping on the wagon with them and pushing for an unnecessary claim. If you were town that is. That is mainly the reason why I'm going to

Unvote, vote nagerous.

On this one, I agree with nagerous and I disagree with you. The whole point is that claims are not unnecessary. They provide the information town needs to get a grasp on what's happening.

[Koesen]

This post sounded very pro-Town for me. I never saw a Scum that got so pissed of over inactivity. IMO Iliad is pro-Town. Worst case scenario, he is a Third party, but no way is he Mafia.

I disagree. I'm not sure about Iliad's alignment, but being pissed off about inactivity is not exclusively a town emotion. Inactivity screws the game regardless of which side of the fence you're on.

[Anarkistsdream]

This post sounded very pro-Town for me. I never saw a Scum that got so pissed of over inactivity. IMO Iliad is pro-Town. Worst case scenario, he is a Third party, but no way is he Mafia.

I disagree. I'm not sure about Iliad's alignment, but being pissed off about inactivity is not exclusively a town emotion. Inactivity screws the game regardless of which side of the fence you're on.

Agreed.

But, since ExplainThis has not come back to respond to anything.

Unvote
Vote: ExplainThis

[Koesen]

Ehm... Explain this replaced Fircoal, right?

I rather firmly believe he is an actor and will therefore not vote for him even if he does submarine. Which I think he does less than certain others anyway.

[Koesen]

EBWOP: That should be 'ExplainThis'.

[ExplainThis]

This post sounded very pro-Town for me. I never saw a Scum that got so pissed of over inactivity. IMO Iliad is pro-Town. Worst case scenario, he is a Third party, but no way is he Mafia.

I disagree. I'm not sure about Iliad's alignment, but being pissed off about inactivity is not exclusively a town emotion. Inactivity screws the game regardless of which side of the fence you're on.

Agreed.

But, since ExplainThis has not come back to respond to anything.

Unvote
Vote: ExplainThis

How the f*ck am i lurking? I work and sleep. This means I can play this game basically between 4-10pm my time (its 4 pm now for reference) ask me all you want outside of those hours but don't expect a response until I'm home. Beyond that I don't even know what you think I haven't explained. Iliads post stunk of ... How to put this. He said it with such authority that he comes off as experienced, but what he said was so wrong I can only assume hes been playing incorrectly since he started. If others have proof that he knows what hes doing please tell me cause then what he said is just plain scummy.

I still think diddles scum. I haven't watched the show but imo alignment of characters inside the original work should have little baring on the alignment of characters inside a game, that is if you want to maintain balance. The mayor roll (obviously as a oneshot) is very good scum roll and doesn't have to be town, If he can prove that he can use it multiple times or that it ends the day then id be much more willing to back off from him. Diddle if we attempt to lynch someone you veto does the day end? Thats some important info to have, cause if it doesn't we can test it without worry.

[gimpyThewonder]

vote count will happen late tonight after work

in case anyone was curious or cared

[Koesen]

imo alignment of characters inside the original work should have little baring on the alignment of characters inside a game, that is if you want to maintain balance.

(....)

Diddle if we attempt to lynch someone you veto does the day end? Thats some important info to have, cause if it doesn't we can test it without worry.

FYI, on this forum, the alignment of the characters in the original show/book almost always corresponds with their alignment in the mafia game, and if there's a deviation, there's usually some kind of thematic justification for it.

This is at the beginning of the game. If people can be recruited by some kind of faction, all bets are off.

I want the answer to the bold question too, please.

[Serbia]

Well now there is a LOT going on in this game. One thing I notice, what's up with saying ET is lurking? He's been posting daily. (more than me I might add... )

[Anarkistsdream]

Well now there is a LOT going on in this game. One thing I notice, what's up with saying ET is lurking? He's been posting daily. (more than me I might add... )

Show me where anyone said he was lurking...

Oh, wait... No one ever did.