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Logic dictates that there is a God!

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Does God exist?

 
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Postby jay_a2j on Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:39 am

heavycola wrote:
Science also dictates evolution could never have happened


Setting aside the staggering ignorance displayed in the rest of jay's initial post...

Anyone who has managed to persuade himself that this quote is in any way connected to reality could believe anything, and probably does. Debate is pointless. Might as well argue with a goldfish.

One day i will learn this lesson for myself.



Science has said LIFE CANNOT COME FROM NON-LIFE.
So, either something popped up out of nothing or there is a God.

Evolution has soooo many flaws in it its not funny.

1. Why do we not see half breeds walking around today? If evolution is "always happening" you'd think we would see EVIDENCE of this in our surroundings! (Maybe a squirl with feathers, a species of whale that walks on land, or an ape who is losing his hair and walking upright)

2. SPEECH is a learned behavior. Who taught the first apes to speak?

3. The biggest problem with evolution is that it doesn't address the Orgin of Life question. If you trace evolution back to the very first life where did it come from? Here is were you believe that something popped up out of nothing or that there is a God.
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Postby heavycola on Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:47 am

jay_a2j wrote:
slash1890 wrote:You're such a hypocrite. Who created god, again?



God has always existed. He is eternal.



This statement is meaningless.
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Postby Backglass on Thu Oct 19, 2006 9:59 am

jay_a2j wrote:God has always existed. He is eternal.


The Universe has always existed. It is eternal.

There are no gods.
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Postby vtmarik on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:08 pm

jay_a2j wrote:Science has said LIFE CANNOT COME FROM NON-LIFE.
So, either something popped up out of nothing or there is a God.


You know what? Gauntlet thrown, gauntlet picked up, and I'm ready to use it as a deadly weapon.

LET'S KICK THIS PIG!

Evolution has soooo many flaws in it its not funny.

1. Why do we not see half breeds walking around today? If evolution is "always happening" you'd think we would see EVIDENCE of this in our surroundings! (Maybe a squirl with feathers, a species of whale that walks on land, or an ape who is losing his hair and walking upright)


Because dramatic mutations like that don't occur in evolution. A more easily observed example is watching different color beetles on tree bark. The beetles that look most like the tree are being eaten less than the ones that are lighter in color. After a few dozen years of this process, there will be significantly more tree-color beetles than light beetles. This is natural selection. The process of genetic mutation is not immediately visible (since the full rammifications of the process take a few hundred millions years to become noticeable).

Oh, and as far as an ape walking upright, there was a case that occured in a Tel-Aviv zoo when an ape became very ill and started walking upright after her course of treatment had completed:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5479501/

2. SPEECH is a learned behavior. Who taught the first apes to speak?


Again, speech is the process by which animals communicate. However, not all animals speak. Bees dance, apes jabber, and dogs bark. Language, which is what we have, is learned and it's mostly through transliteration, corruption, inability to pronounce certain characters, or just plain laziness that new words or languages arise.

Also, we didn't evolve from apes. No evolutionist worth his salt actually has ever said this. Scientists have said that we evolved alongside apes and share a common ancestor with apes. So the question then becomes, who taught man to speak. The answer: The Apes. We learned, like any other animal, from imitation. Now we can start talking about the real question: Where did language come from?


3. The biggest problem with evolution is that it doesn't address the Orgin of Life question. If you trace evolution back to the very first life where did it come from? Here is were you believe that something popped up out of nothing or that there is a God.


You see, there was no "First living thing," that's impossible. The belief that there is one is because you don't think like a scientist. Life came, not from unlife, but from semi-life. From viruses and amino acids colliding and fusing into bits of RNA (Ribo Nucleic acid). These bits of RNA along with amino acid 'proteinoids' formed the building blocks of the first strands of DNA (Deoxyribo-Nucleic Acid). More information on this theory can be found in the book Darwin's Dangerous Idea by Daniel C. Dennett.

Sorry to disappoint you, but unlike the Christian religion, there is no 'Black and White' issues in science. The lack of one option does not immediately demand the other.
Last edited by vtmarik on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby heavycola on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:10 pm

jay_a2j wrote:
heavycola wrote:
Science also dictates evolution could never have happened


Setting aside the staggering ignorance displayed in the rest of jay's initial post...

Anyone who has managed to persuade himself that this quote is in any way connected to reality could believe anything, and probably does. Debate is pointless. Might as well argue with a goldfish.

One day i will learn this lesson for myself.



Science has said LIFE CANNOT COME FROM NON-LIFE.
So, either something popped up out of nothing or there is a God.

Evolution has soooo many flaws in it its not funny.

1. Why do we not see half breeds walking around today? If evolution is "always happening" you'd think we would see EVIDENCE of this in our surroundings! (Maybe a squirl with feathers, a species of whale that walks on land, or an ape who is losing his hair and walking upright)

2. SPEECH is a learned behavior. Who taught the first apes to speak?

3. The biggest problem with evolution is that it doesn't address the Orgin of Life question. If you trace evolution back to the very first life where did it come from? Here is were you believe that something popped up out of nothing or that there is a God.


Jay - once again - if you had read anything apart from creationist tracts, you would understand why the points you mention are all utterly discredited. They have all been explained patiently elsewhere in this thread, but none of those explanations can compete with dogma. Which is a shame.


by the way:
or an ape who is losing his hair and walking upright

this was a joke, right?
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Postby Knight of Orient on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:26 pm

God is real, you have just been blinded by Satan, and therefore, cannot see him working. Look at the times we are in. the Bible predicts war, calamnity.....i think that is where we are at now. Things are horrible on earth. It is only a matter of time til the Rapture......
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Postby vtmarik on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:33 pm

Knight of Orient wrote:God is real, you have just been blinded by Satan, and therefore, cannot see him working. Look at the times we are in. the Bible predicts war, calamnity.....i think that is where we are at now. Things are horrible on earth. It is only a matter of time til the Rapture......


GAHHHHH, YOU'RE CRAZY!!!
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Postby heavycola on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:56 pm

More information on this theory can be found in the book Darwin's Dangerous Idea by Daniel C. Dennett.


You have prolly already read it, but the Blind Watchmaker (by notoriously hellbound satanist Richard Dawkins) is also brilliant at explaining the porcesses that led to life on this planet. He also deals with the probabilities involved, and kind of demystifies everything.
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Postby vtmarik on Thu Oct 19, 2006 12:58 pm

heavycola wrote:
More information on this theory can be found in the book Darwin's Dangerous Idea by Daniel C. Dennett.


You have prolly already read it, but the Blind Watchmaker (by notoriously hellbound satanist Richard Dawkins) is also brilliant at explaining the porcesses that led to life on this planet. He also deals with the probabilities involved, and kind of demystifies everything.


I've read parts of it while I was researching my paper on this whole evolution v. creation debate. It's a good read.
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Postby qeee1 on Thu Oct 19, 2006 1:44 pm

Have any of you read The God Delusion? It's new out here, and priced a rather expensive 25euro, so I'm wondering if it's worth getting?
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Postby thejackofhearts on Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:01 pm

The bible, which all "devoted Christians" consider the word of Christ, was not written by Christ. it was written by people who claim to have witnessed christs miracles.

I personally am a believer in Christ, and God, and Heaven and Hell. I do not however believe that the current bible is 100% true. It has been rewritten so many time and translated from hebrew to begin with that it is impossible for everthing that was in the original bible is still there. That combined with the fact that it wasn't directly written by Christ results in many confused ideals with modern religion.

God's existence/non-existence is something that can be neither proven nor disproven by any means available to man. Therefore this argument is a waste of time.

All you non-believers are going to continue to not believe, and all of us believers are going to keep believing.

regardless of your faith/non-faith. I wish you good day, and good luck.
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Postby Knight of Orient on Thu Oct 19, 2006 2:54 pm

im sorry if i offended anyone with my post. just so you know
you are entitled to your opinion...
that doesnt mean its right
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Postby heavycola on Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:37 pm

qeee1 wrote:Have any of you read The God Delusion? It's new out here, and priced a rather expensive 25euro, so I'm wondering if it's worth getting?


It's on order... can't wait
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Postby Mirak on Thu Oct 19, 2006 4:38 pm

jay,,,how can you say vtmarik is not funny
the only reason I have read all 90 odd pages of this thread is to read the gems he comes out with....
you are funny at times too...but probably unintentionally

Q.
Assuming God exists, as you clearly believe, is he/she omnipotent?
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Postby jay_a2j on Thu Oct 19, 2006 11:46 pm

Mirak wrote:Q.
Assuming God exists, as you clearly believe, is he/she omnipotent?




Yes, He is.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
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Postby Mirak on Fri Oct 20, 2006 2:59 am

All seeing...all knowing...and infallible?
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Postby Backglass on Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:34 am

Knight of Orient wrote:God is real, you have just been blinded by Satan, and therefore, cannot see him working. Look at the times we are in. the Bible predicts war, calamnity.....i think that is where we are at now. Things are horrible on earth. It is only a matter of time til the Rapture......


Santa Claus is real, you all have just been blinded by the Easter Bunny and therefor cannot see him working. Look at the times we are in. The Great Claus only wants to bring gifts to all. YEAH...IN ONE NIGHT! (Can I get a HO HO HO!) Things are horrible on the North Pole...dreary, cold, and infighting. It is only a matter of time before the Elves take over...if the Leprechauns dont get there first.

You better be GOOD....for GOODNESS SAKE! :P
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Postby slash1890 on Fri Oct 20, 2006 8:55 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Mirak wrote:Q.
Assuming God exists, as you clearly believe, is he/she omnipotent?




Yes, He is.


Quit just responding to just the easy questions, and go take a look higher on page 91. Vt and cola want to have a word with you.
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Postby jay_a2j on Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:29 am

Mirak wrote:All seeing...all knowing...and infallible?



yes
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
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Postby Backglass on Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:34 am

jay_a2j wrote:
Mirak wrote:All seeing...all knowing...and infallible?



yes


Of course...he knows when you are sleeping. He knows when your awake.

Like all fairy tales.
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Postby jay_a2j on Fri Oct 20, 2006 10:55 am

vtmarik wrote:Because dramatic mutations like that don't occur in evolution. A more easily observed example is watching different color beetles on tree bark. The beetles that look most like the tree are being eaten less than the ones that are lighter in color. After a few dozen years of this process, there will be significantly more tree-color beetles than light beetles. This is natural selection. The process of genetic mutation is not immediately visible (since the full rammifications of the process take a few hundred millions years to become noticeable).



Give me a break. I don't care if it took trillions of years we'd still see evidence of it. But we don't. Why? Cause its bunk!


2. SPEECH is a learned behavior. Who taught the first apes to speak?


Again, speech is the process by which animals communicate. However, not all animals speak. Bees dance, apes jabber, and dogs bark. Language, which is what we have, is learned and it's mostly through transliteration, corruption, inability to pronounce certain characters, or just plain laziness that new words or languages arise.



Another example of evasion. Speech is LEARNED. Therefore, someone who already knows how to talk must TEACH someone who doesn't. If a baby was born and he was never exposed to human speech, that child would never speak. Your agrgument doesn't hold water.

Also, we didn't evolve from apes. No evolutionist worth his salt actually has ever said this. Scientists have said that we evolved alongside apes and share a common ancestor with apes. So the question then becomes, who taught man to speak. The answer: The Apes. We learned, like any other animal, from imitation. Now we can start talking about the real question: Where did language come from?



We didn't evolve from apes? You had better tell that to the scientific community! Even my First Aid instructor in college said, "Our tail bone is what is left of our tail through evolution." (rolls eyes) My Sociology 101 professor had a poster of an ape, through several stages it became man.

Apes, an unspeaking animal taught us humans how to speak? ROFL You guys believe this yet have a hard time with the idea of God! This too is bunk.


Life came, not from unlife, but from semi-life. From viruses and amino acids colliding and fusing into bits of RNA (Ribo Nucleic acid). These bits of RNA along with amino acid 'proteinoids' formed the building blocks of the first strands of DNA (Deoxyribo-Nucleic Acid). More information on this theory can be found in the book Darwin's Dangerous Idea by Daniel C. Dennett.

Sorry to disappoint you, but unlike the Christian religion, there is no 'Black and White' issues in science. The lack of one option does not immediately demand the other.



So then we have an eternal "virus" that was the cause of all creation! (I'm glad I didn't get too into drugs as a youth) Logic dictates (because life cannot come from non-life) that something has to be eternal. Otherwise life cannot exist! Again, unless you believe that the first life or "semi-life" poped up from nothing.
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
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Postby Knight of Orient on Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:00 am

Have you ever thought that God may have put those fossils and such on earth so that we would truly make a choice on believing him? God doesnt ust say, "Here I Am, Believe In Me!". No, the choice is yours. things are set in your path so that you have choices that you must make, so that God isnt the only way persay. there are 2 paths, one to heaven, one to hell. If the Devil decieves you, you believe there is no God and that science proves it.
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Postby Backglass on Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:24 am

Knight of Orient wrote:Have you ever thought that God may have put those fossils and such on earth so that we would truly make a choice on believing him?


Wow. So your diety needs to trick us huh. It's a big cosmic game of Clue. :lol: It;s just silly the excuses you guys come up with.

Knight of Orient wrote:God doesnt ust say, "Here I Am, Believe In Me!".


And why not? Why the cloke & dagger? It's a god...right? Full of power? Why the games? More silliness...

Knight of Orient wrote:If the Devil decieves you, you believe there is no God and that science proves it.


I dont believe in gods, devils, witches, leprechauns or fairy's. You think that if you dont believe in a god, you must be aligned with a devil. Well, just like you I dont believe in Mohammed, Buddha, Ganesh or Shiva. I just take it one step further and say I dont believe in your god either.
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Postby jay_a2j on Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:33 am

Backglass wrote: You think that if you dont believe in a god, you must be aligned with a devil.




Jesus said, "Whoever is not for me, is against me" .. So yeah.....
THE DEBATE IS OVER...
PLAYER57832 wrote:Too many of those who claim they don't believe global warming are really "end-timer" Christians.

JESUS SAVES!!!
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Postby mightyal on Fri Oct 20, 2006 11:43 am

Knight of Orient wrote:Have you ever thought that God may have put those fossils and such on earth so that we would truly make a choice on believing him? God doesnt ust say, "Here I Am, Believe In Me!". No, the choice is yours. things are set in your path so that you have choices that you must make, so that God isnt the only way persay. there are 2 paths, one to heaven, one to hell. If the Devil decieves you, you believe there is no God and that science proves it.

So your god is trying really hard to trick people into going to hell. If you are prepared to believe the rationally irrefutable mass of evidence he plants all around us, you get an eternity of damnation? The logical, reasonable, intelligent folk go to hell whilst the brain-washed and intellectually dispossessed go to heaven? And the devil's the bad guy in this charade?
Which flavour of theism do I need be lobotomised into accepting to save myself?
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