After Long Await, Periodic Madness- v16 p 13[i][vacation]

[TaCktiX]

Version 11

Updates:
- Cation/Anion teleportation no longer exists, instead there's a bonus for holding pairs
- Added several impassables to break up bonus areas
- Changed Alkaline Earth color to make impassables more visible
- Adjusted bonuses according to one of the formula sheets provided in Map Making Tools
- Added a bridge between Alkali and Noble Gases
- Altered the arrow colors of the borders connecting Ac and La to their series' so what attacks what is clearer



Discussion Points:
- Are bonuses a bit too excessive in the Transition area?
- Is this map better for holding territory and bonuses?
- Is the Alkali/Noble bridge a good idea?
- Is the connection to the Actinides and Lanthanides more apparent?
- Is the Cation/Anion pair bonus a good one?
- Are the bonuses too high? Please provide suggestions for what to edit it to if they are.

[RjBeals]

This is one map that I'll never play. i suggest you focus on your citadel map.

[TaCktiX]

Neither is taking away from the other. If anything my uber-project Trench Warfare is getting the shaft. People won't see a version of it until I have a full display beta, and its technical work is in another league compared to the other two combined. I don't mind if people will "never play" either map on principle, it only bugs me if people would "never play" a map I've worked on because there are glaring errors.

[RjBeals]

Agree Tack. This map just doesn't suit my interests. Just thought I would pop-in & let it be known. I'll continue to give feedback in the Citadel thread, cause that looks like it could be fun to play. The periodic table is just squares to me. I guess if I were in a chemistry class it might be more relevant.

[mibi]

you kno whats funny about this little process, that all the little bitchers come out after its in its 10 stage, like 30 people have shown interest then this 5 people come in and start bitching like 15 year old spoiled little girls, hahah mibi i apologize for my comments to u, this is sad...u dis something because u dont have the mind compatince to understand simple words and techinicolor bright arrows pointing lol gg men no re, Mibi again i apologize at least u have intelligence

I didn't understand anything you just said.

[CatfishJohnson]

basically, i apologized for my comments to u, because u have intelligence and the others bitch about things for the sake of it, thats what

[TaCktiX]

Okay, so we change the map around almost entirely bonus-wise, and nobody has anything to say, not even a "you still can't salvage it"?

[t-o-m]

sorry i havnt really read the thread well, are people saying that you should abandon the map?

[CatfishJohnson]

well basically 2 that bitched about the colors are bad, im confused...after like 30 said gg keep going so cha, hes just impling that he updated it and no one commented

[benny profane]

you still can't salvage it.
there's a reason this idea has repeatedly failed.

and for the record, the "bad attitude" has been coming from both sides of the fence in this thread. could be one reason why comments have dropped off.

[brendan man]

I miss that thread. And Coleman.

Stop feeling sorry for yourself, we all miss coleman

oh.... i didnt know he was gon

like the idea! i didn't know he was gone either

[gimil]

Frogvie me for not reading the thread but this looks to be an XML nightmare. You plan on having the full element name in the XML? If you dont care for chemistry then this map is unplayable. If im correct in saying Au stands for gold. How the hell do you expect the entire community to know that when playing the map?

This may be made to appeal to a minority but the map must be palyable to the ENTIRE community. This point along with the fact that this map has been tried and failed before is holding it back.

[Sir. Ricco]

Just wondering if there is any way to tone down the color. It's a little blinding.

[shadowsteel9]

Frogvie me for not reading the thread but this looks to be an XML nightmare. You plan on having the full element name in the XML? If you dont care for chemistry then this map is unplayable. If im correct in saying Au stands for gold. How the hell do you expect the entire community to know that when playing the map?

This may be made to appeal to a minority but the map must be palyable to the ENTIRE community. This point along with the fact that this map has been tried and failed before is holding it back.

What was intended for the names, was either only the symbol, or the symbol followed by the name.
Example Au-Gold

[CatfishJohnson]

gimil, i understand what u say, but it isnt that hard, a few have said hey this is gay or whatever, shadow and tac are trying to make it good, its a feasible idea and its one that has some actual value, ok u own Au (gold), that isnt confusing at all, seriously..people need a open mind in stuff, i understand where the opposition comes from but i can also see alot of what can fix it, i mean two people bitch, and its halted...thats not right, after the 15 20 that had interest wtf man seriously is that how it works, few control the choices of many...oh wait, lol thats the US government, and look at how thats worked out for us......

[t-o-m]

and for the record, the "bad attitude" has been coming from both sides of the fence in this thread. could be one reason why comments have dropped off.

if you want bad attitude from the map makers - go to archipelo - or however you spell it - the maker there cant take any critisism!
and tells me to point out the good aspects of the map - thats his job!

[/threadjack]

i think this map is good, but confusing and i dont think people will want to play it because of the confusingness, its like marketing - if you dont get it within a couple of seconds - you move on and choose something else

[shadowsteel9]

you still can't salvage it.
there's a reason this idea has repeatedly failed.

Yes the reason it has repeatedly failed, is when the previous attempts hit a brick wall they stop.
brick walls aren't there to stop us from pursuing it they are really just there so that we can prove how badly we want it.

[Ditocoaf]

I like the radioactive decay, and the hydrogyn bonds. however, the random borders and blocks you've added are just annoying. Sure some places will be better and easier to hold than others-- this is true of all maps. Just let there be good drops and bad drops.

[CatfishJohnson]

i agree with ditocof i mean the way the game is won and lost is half of something competly random, the dice rolls

[laci_mae]

Hi Tack,

I like the update. Many of the comments about lack of interest stem from a near universal distaste for chemistry. I would like to see the emphasis be removed from learning the element and group names. For example, Lanthanides and Actinides is extra info that takes up a lot of space but does nothing for the overall map.

Major suggestions:
* The cation/anion connection is still confusing. I think they will eventually serve a unique facet in gameplay, but it's just not there yet.
* Focus on decreasing info needed in the legend and around the map. Perhaps, you could replace all the color coded info with a mini map that indicates bonuses. (See Portugal map for example.)
* Rearrange the map to create more space. 1) Remove the bottom row of information. 2) Shift the map to the bottom of usable space. 3) Shift the lanthanides & actinides section to the left. 4) Move the title to the far upper-right corner. 5) Use the remaining space to disclose only needed and carefully selected information.

Minor suggestions:
* If you don't implement the mini-map style legend, please remove the "+" signs from the legend because there are no "-" signs that need to be differentiated.
* Change all the impassable borders to white. The red doesn't contrast with most colors, and there's really no need for 2 colors that mean the same thing. Black could be removed from the borders list also because it's obvious. Cutting that part of the legend in half will free up some room.
* If you use the mini-map, in the transitions box it could say "8-way attack in this section" and have the arrows. My question is can you attack diagonally from transitions to green or purple?

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my suggestions.

Best,
Laci

[TaCktiX]

Hi Tack,

I like the update. Many of the comments about lack of interest stem from a near universal distaste for chemistry. I would like to see the emphasis be removed from learning the element and group names. For example, Lanthanides and Actinides is extra info that takes up a lot of space but does nothing for the overall map.

Thanks for the overall positive comments. I'm tired of the sentiment of "it didn't work in the past, so there's no possible way it could work now," and you're avoiding that. It means a lot.

Major suggestions:
* The cation/anion connection is still confusing. I think they will eventually serve a unique facet in gameplay, but it's just not there yet.

I tried to put matching pairs next to each other visually. I'll try to "divide" the pairs from each other so it's more apparent what constitutes a pair. In general, if you can't understand "same row", you need serious help.

* Focus on decreasing info needed in the legend and around the map. Perhaps, you could replace all the color coded info with a mini map that indicates bonuses. (See Portugal map for example.)

I would like that, but the incremental bonuses for Transition, Lanthanide, and Actinide continents makes that more or less impossible. Due to the extreme chaos of those three regions (massive decay, 8-way attack, etc.), not giving bonuses for having a segment of them isn't fair to players.

* Rearrange the map to create more space. 1) Remove the bottom row of information. 2) Shift the map to the bottom of usable space. 3) Shift the lanthanides & actinides section to the left. 4) Move the title to the far upper-right corner. 5) Use the remaining space to disclose only needed and carefully selected information.

I'm not moving the Lanthanides/Actinides series unless it's causing horrible "zomg can't read" issues with the map. Its location is in keeping with pretty much every periodic table ever written down in any textbook. Beyond that, I'd have to alter the already-a-little-difficult border indication bringing those two rows in with the rest of the table. Now that I think about it, I think I could implement some triangles or some-such on the territories that connect and say that same-color shapes border each other.

Minor suggestions:
* If you don't implement the mini-map style legend, please remove the "+" signs from the legend because there are no "-" signs that need to be differentiated.

I have no idea what you mean here.

* Change all the impassable borders to white. The red doesn't contrast with most colors, and there's really no need for 2 colors that mean the same thing. Black could be removed from the borders list also because it's obvious. Cutting that part of the legend in half will free up some room.

Consider it done.

* If you use the mini-map, in the transitions box it could say "8-way attack in this section" and have the arrows. My question is can you attack diagonally from transitions to green or purple?

Not doing the box for prior-stated reasons, sorry.

I look forward to hearing your thoughts on my suggestions.

Best,
Laci

Consider the comments made.

[laci_mae]

Hi Tack,

Your responses are appreciated. I totally understand your reasonings, and hope you can soon lift this map into the main foundry. As you likely discerned from my comments, I believe your graphics are the major issue for this map. To me, game play seems fairly unique. The other maps with box style layouts are not anything like this.

I understand if you don't want to move the lanthanides box. I just see a lot of wasted space around those labels. Perhaps they're not needed. You don't give them for any of the other groups.

I like the idea of adding shapes instead of having the green border. We all know I love the lime green, but it's definitely detracting from the map. Using the shapes would, you could totally ditch it. Maybe they could be different colored beakers.

I'm not sure I'm on board with "in a row". The first time I read it I thought "All the lanthanides are on the same row". Then I realized you mean three connecting. You could always say "+1 for each threesome".

Clarification: In the legend you have "Hydrogen: +1" and so on. I think you could have just "Hydrogen: 1". There are no territories that lose armies except the decaying ones. Therefore, you don't need to differentiate between + and -. Just a thought to help clear up some space in the legend.

Best,
Laci

[TaCktiX]

Ignore, made some bad quote coding.

[TaCktiX]

Hi Tack,

Your responses are appreciated. I totally understand your reasonings, and hope you can soon lift this map into the main foundry. As you likely discerned from my comments, I believe your graphics are the major issue for this map. To me, game play seems fairly unique. The other maps with box style layouts are not anything like this.

I understand if you don't want to move the lanthanides box. I just see a lot of wasted space around those labels. Perhaps they're not needed. You don't give them for any of the other groups.

I like the idea of adding shapes instead of having the green border. We all know I love the lime green, but it's definitely detracting from the map. Using the shapes would, you could totally ditch it. Maybe they could be different colored beakers.

None of the other groups are "out of place", but I'll move the box and such and ditch that text. The other group/period names are actively used in the map information, so I'd prefer not to remove those, though I could.

I'm not sure I'm on board with "in a row". The first time I read it I thought "All the lanthanides are on the same row". Then I realized you mean three connecting. You could always say "+1 for each threesome".

I'd love for it to be any three, but that's an XML nightmare waiting to happen. I could use "consecutive", but then with the 4 rows worth of Transition metals, that would be confusing. Also consider "Tic tac toe, three in a row", a common euphemism in gaming (relatively). People would more often think "three consecutive" than "any three period", at least in my estimation.

Clarification: In the legend you have "Hydrogen: +1" and so on. I think you could have just "Hydrogen: 1". There are no territories that lose armies except the decaying ones. Therefore, you don't need to differentiate between + and -. Just a thought to help clear up some space in the legend.

Best,
Laci

Gotcha. Will do.

[laci_mae]

Hi Tack,

I'm not sure I'm on board with "in a row". The first time I read it I thought "All the lanthanides are on the same row". Then I realized you mean three connecting. You could always say "+1 for each threesome".

I'd love for it to be any three, but that's an XML nightmare waiting to happen. I could use "consecutive", but then with the 4 rows worth of Transition metals, that would be confusing. Also consider "Tic tac toe, three in a row", a common euphemism in gaming (relatively). People would more often think "three consecutive" than "any three period", at least in my estimation.

I'll keep thinking on this. Maybe I can come up with a good phrasing while you're working on the next update (and not after).

Best,
Laci