Classic map touchup, take three! Live map updated!

[Freetymes]

While not the best it is at least not as bad as the first change. Thank you Lack for trying to understand and for considering the entire community in any further changes. We appreciate the efforts if not the results.

[Freetymes]

Whine, whine, whine... therefore all the flaming that you "new classic map haters" gave ME (I am the only one here right? This map was all my idea and work right?) was completely a) unnecessary, b) undeserved c) unjustified OR d) I act like a 13 year old and have no class. Whine, sob, whine..."
C.

So this is the heart of all of your anger huh Yucky_c?? All of us "New classic map haters"???

You are obviously acting like a child over the fact that your precious new map isn't liked. You can not handle this criticism and even though you tried very hard to say it wasn't so, you have way too much emotion wrapped up in the "New" map and all of your anger is nothing more than a temper tantrum...

You are a sad little person, you have my pity, and I am sorry we have pushed you to the point of stamping your feet and pounding your fists. We were having a debate and you were having seizures, our bad. Indeed it is very lucky that there are cooler heads running things around here!

ps. Save your rabid response as it has been said that this is a done deal for now so I will not be back here to read your pithy rants... Thanks again Lack we do appreciate this arena and I am sorry I came down to Yeti's level and got into the flaming a bit.

[yeti_c]

Whine, whine, whine... therefore all the flaming that you "new classic map haters" gave ME (I am the only one here right? This map was all my idea and work right?) was completely a) unnecessary, b) undeserved c) unjustified OR d) I act like a 13 year old and have no class. Whine, sob, whine..."
C.

So this is the heart of all of your anger huh Yucky_c?? All of us "New classic map haters"???

You are obviously acting like a child over the fact that your precious new map isn't liked. You can not handle this criticism and even though you tried very hard to say it wasn't so, you have way too much emotion wrapped up in the "New" map and all of your anger is nothing more than a temper tantrum...

You are a sad little person, you have my pity, and I am sorry we have pushed you to the point of stamping your feet and pounding your fists. We were having a debate and you were having seizures, our bad. Indeed it is very lucky that there are cooler heads running things around here!

ps. Save your rabid response as it has been said that this is a done deal for now so I will not be back here to read your pithy rants... Thanks again Lack we do appreciate this arena and I am sorry I came down to Yeti's level and got into the flaming a bit.

I'm the 13 year old? Yet again your pathetic insults have belied *your* age.

You quote me then change their quote to make it look like they've typed something different... or better yet - changing someones name into something else - *wow* high brow stuff that is.

Then again you accuse me of the commencing of the flaming - yet it is clearly obvious that you started it - and you continue it.

You are obviously very sadly misinformed that I created this modification - and you're also sadly misinformed that you still think that everyone loved the original classic map - read back through this thread - it is obvious that people didn't love it as much as you did - most of the people who were up in arms couldn't even recognise the version that was closest to the original.

And also if you notice - I was championing the new map for the reasons it was changed - i.e. the new visibility of army's and territory names and borders - something that you didn't even realise about or have failed to acknowledge that some people out there may be unable to play the original map due to it's visibility shortcomings - of course in your world of "me me me" other people do not come into it do they?

And FWIW - you can shove your pity up your arse you cretin.

C.

[oaktown]

As it has been said before in this thread, this is not Flame Wars. Please restrict your posts in this thread to discussion about the Classic changes, as there may still be may many points of view that deserve to be heard and concerns that deserve to be addressed. There has been a general trend in this thread of posts becoming a bit more personal (this isn't directed at any one individual) and I'd like to see us get back to the matter at hand.

Thanks to the thousands who have stopped by to post or vote!

[bryguy]

As it has been said before in this thread, this is not Flame Wars. Please restrict your posts in this thread to discussion about the Classic changes, as there may still be may many points of view that deserve to be heard and concerns that deserve to be addressed. There has been a general trend in this thread of posts becoming a bit more personal (this isn't directed at any one individual) and I'd like to see us get back to the matter at hand.

Thanks to the thousands who have stopped by to post or vote!

hope mine wasnt considered flaming, cause i wasnt meaning to....


if it was then sorry!!


and sorry if i offended you T7!!!

[detlef]

It was a question, not a comment.

Seriously, it's like a black going to a KKK rally.....

God I hope that was just a really bad joke.

[lackattack]

yeti_c and Freetymes knock it off already!

[jiminski]

It was a question, not a comment.

Seriously, it's like a black going to a KKK rally.....

God I hope that was just a really bad joke.

very odd leap of logic for the lad ....I saw a note saying he was recently banned anyway.

[Snively_Sneed]

It was a question, not a comment.

Seriously, it's like a black going to a KKK rally.....

God I hope that was just a really bad joke.

very odd leap of logic for the lad ....I saw a note saying he was recently banned anyway.

Seriously??????..... I know Dekloren may come off as insulting and offensive... But his complaints (from time to time) do have warrant and merit... If he was indeed banned (which I sincerely hope he wasn't), then this organization has hit a new low in regards to censorship...

I have seen numerous "childish" arguments throughout this discussion post... But nothing would be more childish than banning Dekloren on the basis of his comments...

Besides, it's not like he doesn't have anything to be frustrated about... The Classic Map was changed without the PRIOR consent of the members!...

If Dekloren was indeed banned... Then shame on Lack... And shame on the moderators... With all that has gone on with this Classic Map fiasco, you shouldn't even have the right to ban Dekloren... It's childish and self-centered!...

Regards,



Snively

[oaktown]

Besides, it's not like he doesn't have anything to be frustrated about... The Classic Map was changed without the PRIOR consent of the members!...

Actually, the Classic update underwent a lengthy and very public review process to determine what changes were needed, and was determined ready to go by the users in a public forum. Announcements were made outside of the foundry about the pending changes before it went live.

In hindsight, the circles were imperfect... we (by which I mean the users, as I am a user) don't always get it right around here, but we do what we can to fix our mistakes.

[Snively_Sneed]

In hindsight, the circles were imperfect...

You have a talent for understatement... The circles were as "imperfect" as the first Tacoma Narrows Bridge...

But they corrected that problem...

WHAT A NOVEL CONCEPT!!!!!!

Regards,



Snively

[pascalleke]

power is at the few not at the mass although we state that the western worlds and nations are democratic...and is it not a sign or thrue strength to ban the single ones wo say what the many thinks??

lack and all mods : wenn i look at this new classic longer then 5 sec i get serious headache

[CaptainMoo]

its a terrible change...why they couldnt have released a classic 2008 or sumfing, whatched the game logs for a month realised no one played except the maker and then scrapped it i dunno

to be fair though a choice would have been better than just imposing it, classic was by far the most popular map for a reason......i now switch to british isles only to learn that is up for a "revamp".....bye bye gameplay quality

hmmm....just had a thought....is CC gonna start selling special glasses to view the hard to view "revamped" maps...if so at least it would explain the changes

[DiM]

bye bye gameplay quality

really?? was there a change in the gameplay? perhaps africa is now worth 7 and asia has 2 terits?

[CaptainMoo]

bye bye gameplay quality

really?? was there a change in the gameplay? perhaps africa is now worth 7 and asia has 2 terits?

seems obvious to encounter such stupidity in the foundry....to explain my friend:

by "gameplay" i relate to the game playing quality and experience.

Its a frequent occurrence unfortunately on popular gaming sites when they become popular they feel they need to become "fancier" and "make improvements" just like most computer game sequels that strive to be better, often just lose the essence of fun they first had

[DiM]

bye bye gameplay quality

really?? was there a change in the gameplay? perhaps africa is now worth 7 and asia has 2 terits?

seems obvious to encounter such stupidity in the foundry....to explain my friend:

by "gameplay" i relate to the game playing quality and experience.

Its a frequent occurrence unfortunately on popular gaming sites when they become popular they feel they need to become "fancier" and "make improvements" just like most computer game sequels that strive to be better, often just lose the essence of fun they first had

did i insult you? did i call you an idiot? i don't think so.
i think the way you reacted pretty much says everything about your intellect not mine.

[t-o-m]

rite ill just cut to the chase, DiM's right your wrong.
-
gameplay in here basically means the fairness of the map, whether everyone has an equal chance i.e. having australasia as a bonus of 7 and europe as a bonus as 2 - that wouldnt be fair gameplay and wouldnt get the "gameplay passed" stamp

[oaktown]

as the "Gameplay CA," my experience in the Foundry is that when we speak of gameplay we consider fairness of the map as well as ease of play. If some element of a map is difficult to read or there is room for misinterpretation, this is a gameplay issue. For instance, the army circles were originally changed because many had trouble reading the army counts - for them this was a gameplay issue. The Scandinavia title was too close to the Iceland army circle, causing users to occasionally mis-deploy armies - this was a gameplay issue as well. If there is a specific issue with the current version of the map that is causing users to misinterpret or misread an element of the map, it should be brought up and discussed.

Now, let's play nice everybody.

[T7]

My opinion about 'gameplay', and I know not everyone shares it - by a long shot, but I think it's valuable...

To make all army deployments equally visible and tangible turns Risk into a game of statistics with a chance element. Part of the charm of the classic map was that if you were blue, you could hide out in Europe somewhat, or that some areas looked less 'visible' than other areas. People learn this, it become character of the game and adds to it's depth.

My problem with the white circles is that it removes a *whole element* of the game, they reduce it's character. So white dots make it better for scientists with their fancy calculators, but not as good for groovers who see an element of gameplay that's not evident to everybody.

I think this argument boils down to "politically correct" vs "real politik" (or however it's spelt) at it's core. There is merit in both and they're both validly arguable. My belief is that war is dirty... the white dots are trying to make war clean.

It's not an evolution of the map, it's a sanitisation of the map.

I think it's a crying shame, but most people want the white dots - which corresponds with most people wanting unrealistic adjustest equalness in the world.

It may make sense in some crummy office job, but it's not realistic in war. You've got to work with the terrain...

[DiM]

how can you say the fun of the map was that blue armies in europe were hard to see so you could hide better? we have fog for those that want to hide.

[T7]

how can you say the fun of the map was that blue armies in europe were hard to see so you could hide better? we have fog for those that want to hide.

Without going into all the details, usually by making sounds in my throat and forming them with my mouth and tounge but in this case by pressing littlle black keys with... yeah anyway, joke's over.

You summarise and maybe understand wrong. It's not *the* fun on the map, it's *one of the elements of the gameplay* which has been sanitised out of the game.

It's not the same as fog of war - fog is a constant which applies to everyone equally. What I'm talking about is character of a map where some territories are more apparent to the eye than other ones, and on top of that that gives different advantages to different colours and which are apparent to some people and other people are unaware of. Just like real war.

It's an element that's being removed out of the game. A much larger majority think it makes the game better by making it more fair, I'm one of a minority thinks it makes the game not as good by removing an element of gameplay.

I understand your viewpoint and it's a fair viewpoint. I don't think you understand my viewpoint - but regardless I'm not saying you need to agree with it, just to understand what you're disagreeing with.

[TaCktiX]

Your viewpoint is inherently flawed, especially considering that a fair portion of CC'ers use BOB. Your "hidden armies"? Oh yeah, Map Inspect finds them instantly. And if a map has readability issues, it is not fair. This is different from a map where you can have understanding issues (e.g., D-Day), in which case it's their own darn fault. Readability is a paramount concern of anyone in the Foundry, and it should be a concern of everyone outside the Foundry as well. Saying that being able to hide your armies from the harder of seeing than you is an interesting quirk in gameplay is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard.

[T7]

Your viewpoint is inherently flawed, especially considering that a fair portion of CC'ers use BOB. Your "hidden armies"? Oh yeah, Map Inspect finds them instantly.

A lot of people don't use Bob or Map Inspect. I can only guess but I'd say 25% to 50% not using Bob or Map Inspect is a conservative guess. That's a lot of enemies to be smited.

And if a map has readability issues, it is not fair.

Like I said in my previous post, I'm not one of the politically correct crowd. We simply differ on this point.

and it should be a concern of everyone outside the Foundry as well.

It doesn't keep me up at night

Saying that being able to hide your armies from the harder of seeing than you is an interesting quirk in gameplay is the most pathetic thing I've ever heard.

Well you misread. I'm talking about unobservant people, not people with physical vision problems. My brother is one of those red-green people. Now even if that were true, and that was the most pathetic thing you've ever heard in your life, then you really should get out more. There's some pretty crummy stuff going on everywhere outside your door, you're just exagurating for effect. Not every disagreement has to turn into an insult rally y'know.

By the way, is that an Excel map in your signature? Great idea, would be fun and would look great too.

[DiM]

By the way, is that an Excel map in your signature? Great idea, would be fun and would look great too.

[T7]

Yes I see now.