account sitting issues..new rule? <updated - see 1st post>

[lord voldemort]

yo i need some serious answers so owen nothing to smart arse like unless its really funny
if i log in at say 8 am and i have approx 25 or so games to take turns in right
all of them would expire at about 7 pm
but here is the deal right this day i will be out from 830 am until well past midnight where i get home i will be absolutely screwed and the last thing i wanna do is go on cc. if me finding a baby sitter or 2 cause of games involved in etc to take my turns but they take them during the day not before the get close to expiring is this in violation of baby sitting rules not that there are any official rules...

Click image to enlarge.

but anyway what is your opinion on this?
====
An Idea donated by Yeti_c

a) Teams, Freestyle without Babysitter.
b) Teams, Freestyle with Babysitter.
c) Teams, Sequential without Babysitter.
d) Teams, Sequential with Babysitter.
e) Teams with Babysitter on opposing teams.

So this means we need a rule for the following...

a) Babysitting for people you are playing against. (This already exists)
b) Babysitting Freestyle Team games. (How do we define this without stopping the actual fair use of freestyle babysitters?)

<update>
This issue has been put on hold until propper features can be put in place to manage account sitting properly.

We updated FAQ 15 slightly to reflect and clarify the current rules more clearly:

You can, with the stipulation that the account babysitter is not your opponent in any current game and does not start or join new games (except for ongoing tournaments). It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence. Furthermore, you should only take another player's turn if they are in danger of missing a turn, not for the purpose of gaining a tactical advantage.

(emphasis added)

This is not a departure from what was true before, it simply makes tactical account sitting a clearly punishable action (which is always has been in practice)

Have a good one
Twill

[wacicha]

nothing wrong with it. Owen might even sit the account for you!!! He is not always a smart --- well mostly he is but he --- (getting teary eyed laughing so hard)

[lord voldemort]

ok thanks....i got an official warning for this...

[wacicha]

how was the wording of the warning done.

Another words what was the warning really about

[lord voldemort]

in the situation described as above. i had 2 people take my turns. one person was a teammate in freestyle team games.
the other just a clan mate to take some turns
i asked them to make sure team games were done cause they were the most important. (you can make up singles position) but team games is harder.
so they took the turns and i got a warnign for strategic babysitting

[wacicha]

Thank you sir

Let me do some research on this. If you could send me a copy of the warning I would appreciate it.

I will look into it and get an answer I am happy with.

[CYCLOPS1]

i dont see what youre going on about its just a warning why do you have to right so much just about something so small

[lord voldemort]

i dont see what youre going on about its just a warning why do you have to right so much just about something so small

a i got a neg for it
b it looks bad like im cheating and im not cheating

[Kemmler]

i dont see what youre going on about its just a warning why do you have to right so much just about something so small

a i got a neg for it
b it looks bad like im cheating and im not cheating

Haha lol I should go posting that comment on everyone's profiles... it does look pretty bad

[owenshooter]

can you put up the official warning and who it is from? maybe even a game number...-0

[lord voldemort]

can you put up the official warning and who it is from? maybe even a game number...-0

i dont want this getting out as such like parties involved etc. check your inbox owen

[wacicha]

It is from the CC Staff And it states it is for Stratigic babysitting.

Presumable because he had babysitters because of freestyle -- but also logged in during the 24 hr period when babysitters logged in.

For causal games I can kinda understand, but for freestyle you need sometimes have a game watched for more often during a 24 than a causel

[owenshooter]

yeah, i read it, and i completely disagree with the warning... i think you can post the official warning if you remove the mod, and it shouldn't be a problem. in a team game, essentially any good team will gain a strategical advantage with every turn taken, right? i think this really needs to be clarified for team games. and possibly different rules for sequential and freestyle... i can't even see the advantage in a freestyle game... if someone tried that in a freestyle game against my teams, it just wouldn't work, because we co-ordinate to take our turns when the other team is off the site, and while we are all in real time communication and ready to blast off a turn (another reason i don't like freestyle. even when you play within the rules, a win can feel oh so dirty!). if this warning is correct, and the 24 hour rule is in effect for team games, i can name more than a few dozen teams that are "cheaters" that i would consider good team players. this should really be looked at and an official ruling made... it is VERY INTERESTING!-0

[owenshooter]

i dont see what youre going on about its just a warning why do you have to right so much just about something so small

this is HUGE... it is pretty much a basic aspect of team play in many occasions!-0

[wicked]

if this warning is correct, and the 24 hour rule is in effect for team games, i can name more than a few dozen teams that are "cheaters" that i would consider good team players. this should really be looked at and an official ruling made... it is VERY INTERESTING!-0

It was looked into, and a ruling was made. And just because it came from me, doesn't mean it was just my decision. It was posted for discussion in the mod forum and the result was the warnings sent. If you logged on for 30 minutes and didn't want to take your turns then and didn't want to take them later, that's not our fault, but it's also not a legit reason for a babysitter. The babysitting rule has always been very clearly explained... you're allowed this privilege when you cannot access your computer for a 24 hour period. This is the same for all game types. This has always been the rule. If people have taken to breaking this rule out of convenience, then obviously we need to write it down on the "official" page since before we've just relied on people using common sense and asking in the forums.

[owenshooter]

It was looked into, and a ruling was made. And just because it came from me, doesn't mean it was just my decision. It was posted for discussion in the mod forum and the result was the warnings sent.

wow... just a little defensive here? did i mention your name in the thread, even though i received it? nope... i for one have received "an official warning" from you, which was deemed unofficial and "user to user", so you can understand my hesitation in the outcome of the process... no offense intended, just stating a fact. furthermore, i know you are a mod, and i know you work hard on the site, i just tend to follow the letter of the law in the written rules and official rulings from andy or twill... and this ruling is so counter to how the actual world of doubles works, in my experience, that is truly interesting!

you're allowed this privilege when you cannot access your computer for a 24 hour period. This is the same for all game types. This has always been the rule.If people have taken to breaking this rule out of convenience, then obviously we need to write it down on the "official" page since before we've just relied on people using common sense and asking in the forums.

well, i have 413 team games to your 81, and would venture to guess that i may have some valid input as to how the team games are truly played on this site (that is just using my common sense). maybe you should all seek input from guys that have over 1,000 to 3,000 team games completed, perhaps they should be asked their opinion on this ruling, since they may have a better insight into the matter than either of us... and yes, perhaps it does need to be written down...-0

p.s.-my post wasn't an attack on you, it was a question as to the validity of the ruling, because it is truly counter to what goes on in the world of team games.

[Kemmler]

Ask me, I know everything

[wicked]

Not defensvie at all, just explaining what happened. Coordinating turns is fine for team games, it's how they should be played, as long as everyone is playing their own account. However, taking another person's turns in teams games when they're just not around for a few hours is a clear violation of the babysitting rule, which we're in the process of writing out. If that's how you've been playing team games, then I'm sorry to say you're in the wrong.

[owenshooter]

If that's how you've been playing team games, then I'm sorry to say you're in the wrong.

nope, i'm just saying you are pretty out of touch with how team games generally work... but, then again, you have 80 something team games, so i wouldn't expect you to have a very solid insight into the world of team games. it will be nice to have it in the official rules, to clear it all up...-0

[lord voldemort]

if this warning is correct, and the 24 hour rule is in effect for team games, i can name more than a few dozen teams that are "cheaters" that i would consider good team players. this should really be looked at and an official ruling made... it is VERY INTERESTING!-0

It was looked into, and a ruling was made. And just because it came from me, doesn't mean it was just my decision. It was posted for discussion in the mod forum and the result was the warnings sent. If you logged on for 30 minutes and didn't want to take your turns then and didn't want to take them later, that's not our fault, but it's also not a legit reason for a babysitter. The babysitting rule has always been very clearly explained... you're allowed this privilege when you cannot access your computer for a 24 hour period. This is the same for all game types. This has always been the rule. If people have taken to breaking this rule out of convenience, then obviously we need to write it down on the "official" page since before we've just relied on people using common sense and asking in the forums.

as i have stated to u i logged in briefly to tell people oh i cant take my turns can you. the whole day i wasnt online. like i said to you already you dont look at it case by case in which you should have done

freestyle team games are much different than all games wicked. like owen said. i missed turn is extremely difficult to make up.

[owenshooter]

like i said before, someone with 81 games under her belt may not truly have a grasp of what it is you did or what goes on in the team game world. i think if they are going to really make a rule change, they should ask some of the heavy hitters of the doubles community (not myself by any stretch of the imagination), what they think of whatever rules it is they are going to rewrite.

all i can see is, you popped in to find a babysitter for over 40 games, so you wouldn't miss, found one, left... then you are accused of cheating because you signed in earlier in the day. funny, i will sign in on days when i am booked for a job and know i will miss a few turns, around 5 or 6am to PM the few people that have access to my password to ask them to cover my turns for me so i don't miss... sure, i'll take turns in a few of the games that are close to misses, but then i'm gone, and my account is in someone elses hands. so, if i then sign in at 10pm that night to take a turn in a doubles game with one of them, i have broken the rules? makes no sense. none at all. sooo, the solution is to not sign into CC to check the status of your games before searching for someone to sit for you?

i can see the allegations of cheating in a freestyle game, but not for a standard game... i know wicked has layed the rule out, but again, she isn't a regular doubles player and i just don't think she gets it. just like there is NO way i would roll into the world of freestyle 8 player games and try to determine if/how rules were being broken, because i have NO IDEA!!! i don't play it, i don't get it, i have nothing to say about it! i would ask OTHER PEOPLE that play that setting the most, respected players, for their opinion. not just rely on interpreting a rule that is obviously flawed and not very applicable to the way that team games truly work.

sooo, i look forward to a rewrite, but i also hope they ask some of the more prominent team players for their input. seems only fair... especially after i had to suffer through that classic ordeal with the ridiculous revote!!!-0

[wicked]

If that's how you've been playing team games, then I'm sorry to say you're in the wrong.

nope, i'm just saying you are pretty out of touch with how team games generally work... but, then again, you have 80 something team games, so i wouldn't expect you to have a very solid insight into the world of team games. it will be nice to have it in the official rules, to clear it all up...-0

Owen, I'm not sure where you get the idea that rules are set by how the games are being played. Rules are set by the staff here, not by the players. Yes, players can suggest rule changes, but they can't just decide to start breaking them because they feel like it and that how they think it should be. It doesn't matter how many team games I've played. I'm stating what the rule IS, not what I think it should be, but what it IS. If you guys want to change it, then feel free to fill out a suggestion form. Joining a team game shouldn't be an invitation to have free access to your teammates' accounts to take turns whenver you see fit. If people have been doing this, then yes that's wrong, and against the babysitting rule and harboring on multiple accounts. Babysitting is for vacations and such, not just when someone's busy for the day. But don't worry, we'll clear it all up.

[lord voldemort]

If that's how you've been playing team games, then I'm sorry to say you're in the wrong.

nope, i'm just saying you are pretty out of touch with how team games generally work... but, then again, you have 80 something team games, so i wouldn't expect you to have a very solid insight into the world of team games. it will be nice to have it in the official rules, to clear it all up...-0

Owen, it doesn't matter how many team games I've played. I'm stating what the rule IS, not what I think it should be, but what it IS. If you guys want to change it, then feel free to fill out a suggestion form. Joining a team game shouldn't be an invitation to have free access to your teammates' accounts to take turns whenver you see fit. If people have been doing this, then yes that's wrong, and against the babysitting rule and harboring on multiple accounts. Babysitting is for vacations and such, not just when someone's busy for the day. But don't worry, we'll clear it all up.

show me where on this website it shows this rule that says this
let me get this strait because im busy for a day but im not on vacation i can have a baby sitter. that is bullshit and you know it wicked. what if i was busy with a family death, would i not be entitled to a baby sitter then, sure i was honest with you saying i was at a music concert all day. but still.

[lord voldemort]

and my teammates dont have free access to my account...there is this lil invention called msn. and skype or even more recent a mobile phone...

[wicked]

This rule has been clarified time and time again whenever asked on the forums by the staff here. It has always been the same. As of now, it falls under the "unwritten rule" category, but we're working on writing something down, as we didn't realize there was such flagrant disregard for this rule.