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account sitting issues..new rule? <updated - see 1st post>

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Babysitting Rule 1st poll

Poll ended at Sun May 18, 2008 10:15 am

 
Total votes : 0

Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby Twill on Wed May 07, 2008 2:45 pm

OK, I'll admit I got lost in the thread a while back, but many thanks for the users who caught me up on what's going on.

We have been mulling over the issues and have gotten to a point where we have formulated some thoughts (I know, thoughts are a rare and challenging thing for us, but here goes):

    Basic premises
  • Any change that happens needs to be focused on curbing abuse
  • Any change that happens needs to allow for people sitting for eachother for non-strategic purposes because this is a casual game. But curbing abuse is the primary goal
  • Any rule needs to be clearcut, well defined and not leave any loopholes or gray areas for mis-interpretation.
  • Team games should involve coordination, both of strategy and of moves and as such, one person should not be playing more than one account as many players consider this a strategic advantage leaving room for calls of abuse. In a doubles tennis match you can't just pick up a 2nd racket and call yourself a 2 person team...

With these basic premises in mind, we are going to propose the following amendment to Rule #1 (the multi rule):

Rule #1: No multiple accounts

Multiple accounts are discovered by routine scans and community cheating reports. They are strictly forbidden whether or not they play in the same games. If you suspect certain accounts belong to the same person, please report it following the instructions at the top of the Cheating & Abuse Reports forum.

We do allow members to occasionally "babysit" for other members that are away from the game. The babysitter may not play for more than one account in the same game (even if they are teammates) and may not start or join new games (with the exception of ongoing tournaments). It is common courtesy to announce in game chat that another player will take your turn(s) during your absence.


So, what this means is that we are taking the hardline that you cannot sit for your team mates. It does however, relieve the 24 hour rule so that you can have people sit your games even if you are going to be away for less than 24 hours.
It stops potential score abuse with a clear cut rule but does not stop you from finding a 3rd party friend to sit one or two games that you just can't make because you are busy.

We understand that this may not be as convenient as some of you would like, but in the interest of cracking down on users who have unfairly benefited from this, it is a sacrifice we are asking you to make for the benefit of all.

In the future we do plan on adding a hard coded babysitter feature that will let you designate sitters in a more secure way than giving out your password, but, as with everything on the to-do list, we may not get to it for a little, depending on priority issues that pop up here and there.

Thank you to everyone for all of your feedback, we are of course still looking for feedback on this rule as it is not set in stone until the next update roles around...which should be in a week or two ;)

Have a cheater free one!
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby greenoaks on Wed May 07, 2008 2:59 pm

it looks like a great rule to me. =D>
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby jiminski on Wed May 07, 2008 3:17 pm

not good guys
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby Twill on Wed May 07, 2008 3:19 pm

jiminski wrote:not good guys


Care to elaborate?

WHY is it not good?
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby jiminski on Wed May 07, 2008 3:19 pm

How many warnings before you ban me?
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby jiminski on Wed May 07, 2008 3:22 pm

Twill wrote:
jiminski wrote:not good guys


Care to elaborate?

WHY is it not good?


I have spoken at length in this thread mate.

You have made your decision and i am all fought out; Classic map, Babysitter etc. my crusades are over.

i am not sure to be honest that the ruling will change my behaviour so you will probably have to ban me as a cheat at some stage.
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby firstholliday on Wed May 07, 2008 3:44 pm

This is an total nonsense rule. All this started with freestyle and it should count for freestyle.

Now as i understand the rule is like this...

Me (brigadier) JIminski (major) and clapper( 1 minute a luit and the next a private) are playing tripps.

Clapper needs to go to see her sick kid, and can't ask me or jim to play.
BUT she can get seul, bilbo, SKY , Blitz etc etc (clanmembers and or friends) who are all brigadier and up to play for her.....

But if i am in the pub getting drunk and i sms Jim who is in my game to take my turn i can't? BUT if i sms warsteiner who is not in the game i can?

Aren't you guys thinking straight? I don't have the answer to solve the cheating freestyle. But this is no good.... No good at all.

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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby RiskTycoon on Wed May 07, 2008 3:46 pm

it's completely wrong... who ever thinks taking ALL the turns in a sequential team game gives an advantage is an idiot.... so in other words .... if i was to start a battle of math problems you folks seriously think one head is better than two or three? that is just plain stupid.... one person taking ALL the turns in a sequential team game IS NOT :!: an advantage and anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant ...... maybe in freestyle i agree 100% ... but not sequential .... it's just not true...
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby Twill on Wed May 07, 2008 3:54 pm

jiminski wrote:
Twill wrote:
jiminski wrote:not good guys


Care to elaborate?

WHY is it not good?


I have spoken at length in this thread mate.

You have made your decision and i am all fought out; Classic map, Babysitter etc. my crusades are over.

i am not sure to be honest that the ruling will change my behaviour so you will probably have to ban me as a cheat at some stage.


That's a useful attitude to have :shock:

As for how many warnings, it will probably depend on how much you abuse it. All we're saying is that you can't sit for team mates or opponents in a game. There is no reason why you would need to do that unless you're trying to gain a strategic advantage which defeats the purpose of a team game.
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby tzor on Wed May 07, 2008 3:55 pm

I think this is a good compromise. I’ve really been refraining from commenting on this since in the first place it doesn’t apply to me and in the second place passions are so heated that no matter what I say I would get flamed. So here is my thought on the babysitting rule.

ā€œYou give your password away?ā€

No seriously, I thought when that guy (not Gore by the way) came down from the mountain with the commandments of Computer and Internet use that one of the first commandments was ā€œNever give away passwords, not to nobody not no how.ā€

Thus Babysitting is sort of an unfair advantage; it gives preferences to people who are on CC who have friends they can trust their passwords to. People without such friends are at a disadvantage; they might on occasion loose turns. Shock and horror! Like me! And I say ā€œMeh.ā€ Ideally I think we need to have babysitting in the code itself because password sharing should not be tolerated at all, no way, no how.

Still I do think there needs to be a modification to your proposal if it is possible. ā€œThe babysitter may not play for more than one account in the same game in any given round.ā€ This allows for a team babysitter who might baby sit for Joe on Friday but later that week might sit for Bill on Monday. Other than that I think the best solution is in code.
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby RiskTycoon on Wed May 07, 2008 3:58 pm

please advise me as to this awesome stratagem i have been missing out on...... I just don't get it .... how does this make for an advantage? maybe for noobs playing together but i'm sorry ... any one of my regular partners would agree 100% ... communication is key ! and one person making all the moves is NOT an advantage ....
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby Twill on Wed May 07, 2008 4:07 pm

firstholliday wrote:Now as i understand the rule is like this...

Me (brigadier) JIminski (major) and clapper( 1 minute a luit and the next a private) are playing tripps.

Clapper needs to go to see her sick kid, and can't ask me or jim to play.
BUT she can get seul, bilbo, SKY , Blitz etc etc (clanmembers and or friends) who are all brigadier and up to play for her.....

But if i am in the pub getting drunk and i sms Jim who is in my game to take my turn i can't? BUT if i sms warsteiner who is not in the game i can?


Yup.

RiskTycoon wrote:it's completely wrong... who ever thinks taking ALL the turns in a sequential team game gives an advantage is an idiot.... so in other words .... if i was to start a battle of math problems you folks seriously think one head is better than two or three? that is just plain stupid.... one person taking ALL the turns in a sequential team game IS NOT :!: an advantage and anyone who thinks otherwise is ignorant ...... maybe in freestyle i agree 100% ... but not sequential .... it's just not true...


Ah, but by having several heads consider strategy and one person execute strategy you get the best of both worlds while everyone else doesn't.
Regardless of advantage or not, it's not a team game if only one person is making the moves.
Coordination is core to playing as a team. So coordinate.
If both players can't be online at the same time, don't play team games. If you need a stand in, find someone who isn't in the game already...I know you have more than 4 friends here...
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby detlef on Wed May 07, 2008 4:08 pm

Twill wrote:That's a useful attitude to have :shock:

As for how many warnings, it will probably depend on how much you abuse it. All we're saying is that you can't sit for team mates or opponents in a game. There is no reason why you would need to do that unless you're trying to gain a strategic advantage which defeats the purpose of a team game.

That is quite simply not true and there's no way you could arrive at that conclusion if you read the arguments in this thread.

Unless your version of "gaining advantage" is not being saddled with the handicap of having an outsider step in an make your moves rather than a player who's been in the game from the beginning. I mean, who better to take your moves in a doubles game than you're freaking partner.

I guess I'll just be sure to never join any games with JR or Green Oaks as they seem to be the most likely to cry bloody murder if I do something horrible like log in as my partner, grab an easy card and fortify to keep the game running. Otherwise, I'm pretty sure I can continue to "cheat" by doing the unthinkable acts like that and also sign in as him to join public doubles games that we would likely otherwise not be able join.

Great job guys. This should keep the cheats at bay for about 5 minutes until they figure out the next angle. May I propose that nobody be able to make any moves in any games without 3rd party notarized witness? Or does that belong in the suggestions forum.
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Re:WONDERFUL RULE!!

Postby owenshooter on Wed May 07, 2008 4:08 pm

i think it is a great and wonderful rule to eliminate abuse in team games, especially the type of abuse that helps players climb to the top of the leader board quickly and remain there... all those guys playing in sequential... wait... oops... all the abuse takes place in FREESTYLE GAMES!! so, i hope this is meant for freestyle games and not sequential... whew... good thing you posted this here first, so we have an opportunity to reword it, and help you get it right, to eliminate all that freestyle team cheating!!! YOU ARE THE MAN, TWILL!!!-0
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby BENJIKAT IS DEAD on Wed May 07, 2008 4:13 pm

I really don't like this stance either.

The very people who I choose to team with are the very same ones that I would trust most to babysit my account.

And because I have multiple regular teammates (from my clan) I then need to get multiple babysitters too (who would naturally be from the same pool of people).


Oh - and instead just make it so that freestyle games don't count towards the scoreboard - that would solve SO many problems round here.
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby Twill on Wed May 07, 2008 4:14 pm

RiskTycoon wrote: any one of my regular partners would agree 100% ... communication is key ! and one person making all the moves is NOT an advantage ....


As would I. So communicate with someone other than yourself and play as a team ;)

That is quite simply not true and there's no way you could arrive at that conclusion if you read the arguments in this thread.


And just because 4 or 5 people posting in this thread don't think it's an advantage doesn't make it true.

If people are going to be playing against a team, they should be playing against a team.

Otherwise, I'm pretty sure I can continue to "cheat" by doing the unthinkable acts like that and also sign in as him to join public doubles games that we would likely otherwise not be able join.


We have tools that will make this pretty easy to check up on with this rule.
We stop one way to cheat at a time, when they pop up, we deal with them.

Owen, this is going to sit for freestyle and sequential. Yes it is controversial, but it is the only way to close the loopholes and clear up any situations where people might be wrongly accused...
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby jiminski on Wed May 07, 2008 4:20 pm

Twill wrote:
jiminski wrote:
Twill wrote:
jiminski wrote:not good guys


Care to elaborate?

WHY is it not good?


I have spoken at length in this thread mate.

You have made your decision and i am all fought out; Classic map, Babysitter etc. my crusades are over.

i am not sure to be honest that the ruling will change my behaviour so you will probably have to ban me as a cheat at some stage.


That's a useful attitude to have :shock:

As for how many warnings, it will probably depend on how much you abuse it. All we're saying is that you can't sit for team mates or opponents in a game. There is no reason why you would need to do that unless you're trying to gain a strategic advantage which defeats the purpose of a team game.


I am not sure how i can be any more helpful or productive or reasoned in my debating on this than i have already been throughout this thread!

therefore, useful or not, you leave me with no other option, i am sorry.. i am not being difficult but there is nothing i can say to change this!therefore i have been very honest with you as to the affect it will eventually have!honest about your new ruling making me into a cheat.

It is nothing to do with gaining an advantage in the way you have implied, so i have to assume you have not read any of my many posts so far in this thread, ergo my words are irrelevant to the debate.

So i can add nothing of any consequence other than a futile final gesture as a cheating babysitting martyr. .. a nice sentence which i never thought i'd get to use!
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby firstholliday on Wed May 07, 2008 4:40 pm

Are you the one in charge ruling about team games Twill? Just browsed to 2 of you lists and it seems to me according to the 1st and last page that you like Freestyle singles. And according to your points you suck at it.

What you said in your 'yup' answer basicly means is that if you Blitzaholic and Clapper join 100 major or above tripps and you give me your pw. I can play all your moves and we can make Blitz conquerer.

Good?


Think Twill, this rule won't solve cheating it just frustrates a lot of people who don't cheat but who do have a social life. Freestyle is cheating from the beginning try to solve that.

Think buddy.
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby detlef on Wed May 07, 2008 4:54 pm

Assuming the "advantage" is that high ranking players can hijack some cook's account, start doubles with him and make all the moves in order to get better points, ponder this.

Two high ranking players each hijack two different cook's accounts and essentially play doubles, each playing for the cook in the other's games. Bingo, completely within the new rules and just as shady.

Somebody actually needs actually explain an real game-play advantage gained. Twill, you're quick to say that just because we don't see it, it isn't there. Well, what are we not seeing? Please, somebody, well somebody besides JR since none of his arguments have been remotely solid. Oh, and GreenOaks, please understand that your bit about depriving the other teams of the advantage of having your team miss a turn is also not valid since we're not doing away with babysitting altogether.
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby Soloman on Wed May 07, 2008 5:04 pm

it is sealed my Fiancee and I will definitely not be playing team games 2gether, not because of the ruling but the pandora's box the ruling opens up. I mean I already have JR attacking me when I was cleared relentlessly I am not giving anynew ammo against me because we log in back to back to play and must therefore be cheating. Would be smater if you just got rid of conventional freestyle and chaged it to where there was no order of play but only 1 player at a time could play because as things stand team Freestyle is dead and ripe for accusations...
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby detlef on Wed May 07, 2008 5:26 pm

While you're bothering to point out whatever alleged advantage can be gained, would you be so kind as to let us know if any appreciable amount of people are doing it? Once again, I'd like to ask JR to be excluded from this since I'm guessing there aren't 5 people on this site he hasn't accused of cheating.

I mean, there must be plenty if you're prepared to enact such a restrictive rule. There's a ton of rules that could be added to stop cheating but at some point you just have to let go and have faith until you're proven otherwise. Have we truly been proven otherwise? I mean, all of us besides JR?
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby MrMoody on Wed May 07, 2008 6:02 pm

This rule changes nothing. From now on all team games will be two player with a reserve. Big deal The people that abuse the system will now only add a third member to there plans. strategic babysitting will still happen. they will still defer there goes until a later time when its better strategically. babysitters will still make multiple moves in a single game when they can knowing that the player will return the next day. I cant see this changing any of the things that were wrong from the start.
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby owenshooter on Wed May 07, 2008 6:09 pm

MrMoody wrote:This rule changes nothing. From now on all team games will be two player with a reserve. Big deal The people that abuse the system will now only add a third member to there plans. strategic babysitting will still happen. they will still defer there goes until a later time when its better strategically. babysitters will still make multiple moves in a single game when they can knowing that the player will return the next day. I cant see this changing any of the things that were wrong from the start.

you are describing freestyle, not sequential. that is my problem with the language of the rule, it needs to reflect that this is for freestyle. you can not gain a strategic advantage in sequential through baby sitting, and nobody has show how it is possible.-0
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? discuss!!! New Poll added

Postby detlef on Wed May 07, 2008 6:15 pm

MrMoody wrote:This rule changes nothing. From now on all team games will be two player with a reserve. Big deal The people that abuse the system will now only add a third member to there plans. strategic babysitting will still happen. they will still defer there goes until a later time when its better strategically. babysitters will still make multiple moves in a single game when they can knowing that the player will return the next day. I cant see this changing any of the things that were wrong from the start.

=D>

Of course MrMoody, you're missing the point entirely. This, like so many other rules, are merely enacted to get the hand wringers off the backs of the admins for another 5 minutes. We'll discuss the myriad of ways that this rule accomplishes nothing later.
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Re: account sitting issues..new rule? (top p21) discuss

Postby lord voldemort on Wed May 07, 2008 6:27 pm

it solves the problem i originally had. but like someone said i have a group of say 5- 6 people who i trust with my account
these 5-6 people are also the people i would be playing team games with so i have to juggle that on the run and yer.
im still unsure if i like it and its defo still open to abuse
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