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Continuation of Christianity debate.

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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby naxus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:11 pm

Sorry if this has been asked before in the previous 70+ pages but about what time yearwise did christianity come into being?
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby tzor on Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:37 pm

naxus wrote:Sorry if this has been asked before in the previous 70+ pages but about what time yearwise did christianity come into being?


I would say that it really came into being when it allowed the conversion of non jews without having to be first converted to judaism (ie circumcision) by the council of Jerusalem roughly around AD 50.

Or you could argue it came from day one which would be around pentacost AD 34.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby naxus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 12:52 pm

tzor wrote:
naxus wrote:Sorry if this has been asked before in the previous 70+ pages but about what time yearwise did christianity come into being?


I would say that it really came into being when it allowed the conversion of non jews without having to be first converted to judaism (ie circumcision) by the council of Jerusalem roughly around AD 50.

Or you could argue it came from day one which would be around pentacost AD 34.


So All the people who have died before 34 AD worshipped the wrong religions and believed in the wrong gods according to christianity and consequently went to hell?That would be hundreds of thousands if not millons of people
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Frigidus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:00 pm

naxus wrote:
tzor wrote:
naxus wrote:Sorry if this has been asked before in the previous 70+ pages but about what time yearwise did christianity come into being?


I would say that it really came into being when it allowed the conversion of non jews without having to be first converted to judaism (ie circumcision) by the council of Jerusalem roughly around AD 50.

Or you could argue it came from day one which would be around pentacost AD 34.


So All the people who have died before 34 AD worshipped the wrong religions and believed in the wrong gods according to christianity and consequently went to hell?That would be hundreds of thousands if not millons of people


They actually have an explanation for that. Limbo was a place that virtuous non-believers were sent to, it was basically peaceful but rather melancholy.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby naxus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:10 pm

Ok that answers that but if christianity is the "one" true religion then why are there other religions out there.Why didn't god stop the spreading of other Religions?
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Frigidus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:30 pm

naxus wrote:Ok that answers that but if christianity is the "one" true religion then why are there other religions out there.Why didn't god stop the spreading of other Religions?


Indeed. What makes Jesus any more or less legitimate than Mohammad, for example.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby muy_thaiguy on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:35 pm

naxus wrote:Ok that answers that but if christianity is the "one" true religion then why are there other religions out there.Why didn't god stop the spreading of other Religions?

Well, to be more specific, Roman Catholicism believes and preaches that. From what I have seen of some of the branches of Chrisitianity (Lutheranism, Baptists, and Methodists) they don't specifically say that.

Anyways, religions like Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism have been around much longer (as well as Shintoism and some other not so well heard of religions) and they, along with the other religions belive that their's is the true religion. And, I know what I'm about to say is going to probably cause the the debate (again), but, God gave people free will to choose, to choose their own paths.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Frigidus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:37 pm

muy_thaiguy wrote:
naxus wrote:Ok that answers that but if christianity is the "one" true religion then why are there other religions out there.Why didn't god stop the spreading of other Religions?

Well, to be more specific, Roman Catholicism believes and preaches that. From what I have seen of some of the branches of Chrisitianity (Lutheranism, Baptists, and Methodists) they don't specifically say that.

Anyways, religions like Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism have been around much longer (as well as Shintoism and some other not so well heard of religions) and they, along with the other religions belive that their's is the true religion. And, I know what I'm about to say is going to probably cause the the debate (again), but, God gave people free will to choose, to choose their own paths.


Indeed...sucks that he punishes us for it.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby tzor on Wed Jun 11, 2008 1:48 pm

naxus wrote:So All the people who have died before 34 AD worshipped the wrong religions and believed in the wrong gods according to christianity and consequently went to hell?That would be hundreds of thousands if not millons of people


Catechism of the Catholic Church wrote:1257 The Lord himself affirms that Baptism is necessary for salvation. He also commands his disciples to proclaim the Gospel to all nations and to baptize them. Baptism is necessary for salvation for those to whom the Gospel has been proclaimed and who have had the possibility of asking for this sacrament. The Church does not know of any means other than Baptism that assures entry into eternal beatitude; this is why she takes care not to neglect the mission she has received from the Lord to see that all who can be baptized are "reborn of water and the Spirit." God has bound salvation to the sacrament of Baptism, but he himself is not bound by his sacraments.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby PLAYER57832 on Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:07 pm

Frigidus wrote:
muy_thaiguy wrote:
naxus wrote:Ok that answers that but if christianity is the "one" true religion then why are there other religions out there.Why didn't god stop the spreading of other Religions?

Well, to be more specific, Roman Catholicism believes and preaches that. From what I have seen of some of the branches of Chrisitianity (Lutheranism, Baptists, and Methodists) they don't specifically say that.

Anyways, religions like Judaism, Buddhism, and Hinduism have been around much longer (as well as Shintoism and some other not so well heard of religions) and they, along with the other religions belive that their's is the true religion. And, I know what I'm about to say is going to probably cause the the debate (again), but, God gave people free will to choose, to choose their own paths.


Indeed...sucks that he punishes us for it.


Many Prostestants believe that God does not punish folks who have never heard fully about Christianity.

But, it is also seen as the (very big) down side of free choice.

Others, though this is definitely not "orthodox", believe that Christianity is possibly just one aspect of God, that those who are Christians are to follow Christianity, etc. and that God's truth is big enough to encompass all beliefs.

It is a difficult issue for any Christian.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby naxus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:40 pm

Ok so probably a really bad question but what if Christianity is not the "One true" Religion?

So if god doesn't punish people who havnt fully heard about it then what does he do to them?
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby bradleybadly on Wed Jun 11, 2008 2:57 pm

naxus wrote:Ok so probably a really bad question but what if Christianity is not the "One true" Religion?

So if god doesn't punish people who havnt fully heard about it then what does he do to them?


=D>

No matter how many times I throw this question to the Christians at work they have never had a really good response to it. I doubt you'll get one either.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby tzor on Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:14 pm

naxus wrote:So if god doesn't punish people who havnt fully heard about it then what does he do to them?


To those to whom much is given, much is required. To those whom little is given, little is required. Yes, it probably annoys people that God might grade on a curve, but then again the Gospels aready shows He tends to flat out ignore hourly wage maximums. "Are you jealous because I am generous?"
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Backglass on Wed Jun 11, 2008 3:52 pm

tzor wrote:To those to whom much is given, much is required. To those whom little is given, little is required. Yes, it probably annoys people that God might grade on a curve, but then again the Gospels aready shows He tends to flat out ignore hourly wage maximums. "Are you jealous because I am generous?"


Wow. Do you actually ever come up with a thought on your own? Or is everything you know and say just repeated, like your post?

I gave up invisible friends when I was 5. I see you still have yours. :lol:
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby naxus on Wed Jun 11, 2008 4:01 pm

naxus wrote:Ok so probably a really bad question but what if Christianity is not the "One true" Religion?


so anyone got an answer to this?
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby tzor on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:40 pm

Backglass wrote:
tzor wrote:To those to whom much is given, much is required. To those whom little is given, little is required. Yes, it probably annoys people that God might grade on a curve, but then again the Gospels aready shows He tends to flat out ignore hourly wage maximums. "Are you jealous because I am generous?"


Wow. Do you actually ever come up with a thought on your own? Or is everything you know and say just repeated, like your post?

I gave up invisible friends when I was 5. I see you still have yours. :lol:


Repeated? Who wrote "God might grade on a curve" before me? I am so ashamed. (not)

And as for "invisible friends," I don't know how I could survive a NaNoWriMo without them all adding to my yearly novel. Some years the novel writes itself.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby tzor on Wed Jun 11, 2008 5:44 pm

naxus wrote:
naxus wrote:Ok so probably a really bad question but what if Christianity is not the "One true" Religion?


so anyone got an answer to this?


I'l probably have one before the next century.
(Note I reserve the right to revise this statement should I reach the insane age of 140.) :twisted:
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby naxus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:08 pm

Ok let me put it out there that all religions are wrong.Personnaly i dont believe this but just want to start a conversation.That all religions are wrong and there is no higher being.Could we handle this?
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Neoteny on Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:11 pm

naxus wrote:Ok let me put it out there that all religions are wrong.Personnaly i dont believe this but just want to start a conversation.That all religions are wrong and there is no higher being.Could we handle this?


Surely. I do it every morning. And sometimes in the afternoon too. I just about lose it before bed though.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Jun 12, 2008 12:59 pm

naxus wrote:Ok let me put it out there that all religions are wrong.Personnaly i dont believe this but just want to start a conversation.That all religions are wrong and there is no higher being.Could we handle this?



Yup. I'm still truckin'.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby jonesthecurl on Thu Jun 12, 2008 1:23 pm

naxus wrote:Ok let me put it out there that all religions are wrong.Personnaly i dont believe this but just want to start a conversation.That all religions are wrong and there is no higher being.Could we handle this?


No arguments here.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Jenos Ridan on Thu Jun 12, 2008 7:53 pm

1. The existence of something is intelligible only if it has an explanation (this is confirmed by the definition of the term intelligibility.).

2. The existence of the Universe is therefore either:
a. unintelligible, or
b. has an explanation

(logical deduction from #1)

3. No rational person should accept 2a. (Confirmed by the definition of rationality.)

4. Therefore, 2b is the rational conclusion and the Universe has an explanation.

5. But there are only three kinds of explanation:
a) Scientific: C + L = E (Independent physical, initial conditions, plus relevant laws, yield the Event explained.)
b) Essential: the essence of the thing to be explained requires it's existence.
c) Personal: this posits explanations that cite the intentions and powers of some personal Agent.

6. The existence of the Universe cannot be explained Scientifically; if the Universe is just natural conditions and laws, there can be no initial physical conditions or laws outside of it--independent of it--to explain it.

7. The explanation cannot be an Essential one; the Universe is a contingent one, and therefore is not necessary. It could just as well 'not exist' as exist. Its essence doesn't require it to existence.

8. So a rational person should believe that the Universe has a Personal explanation.

9. The only personal agent capable--having the power and wisdom--to create the entire universe out of nothing is 'God'.

10. Therefore, a rational person believes there exists a God.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Frigidus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:27 pm

Jenos Ridan wrote:1. The existence of something is intelligible only if it has an explanation (this is confirmed by the definition of the term intelligibility.).

2. The existence of the Universe is therefore either:
a. unintelligible, or
b. has an explanation

(logical deduction from #1)

3. No rational person should accept 2a. (Confirmed by the definition of rationality.)

4. Therefore, 2b is the rational conclusion and the Universe has an explanation.

5. But there are only three kinds of explanation:
a) Scientific: C + L = E (Independent physical, initial conditions, plus relevant laws, yield the Event explained.)
b) Essential: the essence of the thing to be explained requires it's existence.
c) Personal: this posits explanations that cite the intentions and powers of some personal Agent.

6. The existence of the Universe cannot be explained Scientifically; if the Universe is just natural conditions and laws, there can be no initial physical conditions or laws outside of it--independent of it--to explain it.

7. The explanation cannot be an Essential one; the Universe is a contingent one, and therefore is not necessary. It could just as well 'not exist' as exist. Its essence doesn't require it to existence.

8. So a rational person should believe that the Universe has a Personal explanation.

9. The only personal agent capable--having the power and wisdom--to create the entire universe out of nothing is 'God'.

10. Therefore, a rational person believes there exists a God.


Bad copypasta is bad.
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby naxus on Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:30 pm

Jenos Ridan wrote:9. The only personal agent capable--having the power and wisdom--to create the entire universe out of nothing is 'God'.

10. Therefore, a rational person believes there exists a God.


on number nine i dissagree has it should be A god to include people of different religious backgrounds.

And on # 10 the average person isn't rational or smartenough to go through the 10 step process you so beatifully explained
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Re: Continuation of Christianity debate.

Postby Juan_Bottom on Thu Jun 12, 2008 8:31 pm

Jenos Ridan wrote:1. The existence of something is intelligible only if it has an explanation (this is confirmed by the definition of the term intelligibility.).

2. The existence of the Universe is therefore either:
a. unintelligible, or
b. has an explanation

(logical deduction from #1)

3. No rational person should accept 2a. (Confirmed by the definition of rationality.)

4. Therefore, 2b is the rational conclusion and the Universe has an explanation.

5. But there are only three kinds of explanation:
a) Scientific: C + L = E (Independent physical, initial conditions, plus relevant laws, yield the Event explained.)
b) Essential: the essence of the thing to be explained requires it's existence.
c) Personal: this posits explanations that cite the intentions and powers of some personal Agent.

6. The existence of the Universe cannot be explained Scientifically; if the Universe is just natural conditions and laws, there can be no initial physical conditions or laws outside of it--independent of it--to explain it.

7. The explanation cannot be an Essential one; the Universe is a contingent one, and therefore is not necessary. It could just as well 'not exist' as exist. Its essence doesn't require it to existence.

8. So a rational person should believe that the Universe has a Personal explanation.

9. The only personal agent capable--having the power and wisdom--to create the entire universe out of nothing is 'God'.

10. Therefore, a rational person believes there exists a God.



Haven't I seen this before??? Don't you make me copy and paste, rebuttles buddy! (FRIGIDUS, you cut me off! Awesome though!)
Also, this is a pointless debate. The Einstiens of Atheism live here in the chatterbox. Just look at the past religious threads. They always start out Jesus this, logical god that, but by the end of it, it's just a bunch of atheist arguing about dark matter.
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