Regarding wicked...

[Frop]

please go read my posts under "short term disability vs long term ego" Employees have rights, especially when they are sick or disabled...sorry, but the "owner can do anything and it's ok because they own the business" went out of style legally a very LONG time ago.

Shouldn't one have to prove this short term disability before a judicial torrent brings CC to its knees?

[The Chosen One]

KidWhiskey, I don't think CC should be a democracy nor do I think the paying customers should run the business, but I do believe in people's rights (including employees). Rights are like muscles, use them or loose them. So I will continue to encourage each employee of this business to know their rights and to exercise the hell out of them.

[The Chosen One]

please go read my posts under "short term disability vs long term ego" Employees have rights, especially when they are sick or disabled...sorry, but the "owner can do anything and it's ok because they own the business" went out of style legally a very LONG time ago.

Shouldn't one have to prove this short term disability before a judicial torrent brings CC to its knees?

Sure Frop, but from what I read in the posts wicked was never given the opportunity to do just that..so another employee right violated?...sure seems that way

[GoVegan]

The difference with this is how its always mentioned that "the community is the most important thing".

In keeping with that ethic it should be disclosed if Wicked agrees.

[Frop]

please go read my posts under "short term disability vs long term ego" Employees have rights, especially when they are sick or disabled...sorry, but the "owner can do anything and it's ok because they own the business" went out of style legally a very LONG time ago.

Shouldn't one have to prove this short term disability before a judicial torrent brings CC to its knees?

Sure Frop, but from what I read in the posts wicked was never given the opportunity to do just that..so another employee right violated?...sure seems that way

From what I've read in the threads CC doesn't present her disease or her behaviour during said disease as a reason for letting her go, so where exactly does your copypasta come in?

[The Chosen One]

Frop if a change in the employee's behavior results in an inability to perform essential job functions that they have previously performed to the employer's satisfaction (and that includes cooperative working relationships with other employees) then the employer is obligated to consider the reasons for that change PRIOR to dismissal. THAT means listening to the employee's verbal response and reviewing any documentation on a diagnosed medical or psychological ailment presented by the employee in their defense. Employee rights vary from incredibly strong to non existent throughout the world, but in the US and Canada, employees have very clear and well defined rights

[KidWhisky]

Actually wicked was a volunteer, at least that is what they are saying. She was not actually an employee so the laws regarding employees and there rights do not come into play here.

As for CC being a democracy, that was more for suggs who apparently feels that this site should be run as one and that he should have a say in what goes on because he owns the site due to the fact that he pays for the service.

[user01]

This site is going down..., down..., down...
Post a disagreement with lack, and your post is removed.
Post a disagreement about unwanted and poor changes and you receive a forum ban.

Now mod wicked is removed... the only mod that I had any time for, despite her blind support of lacks unwanted changes.

I am very glad I did not pay for membership on this site.

Shame on you lack and co...
You may be good game site designer but as a personnel manager, well you suck...
Stick to your programming. Even that has been poor lately.

[demon7896]

and you could run this site any better??

[GabonX]

This site is going down..., down..., down...
Post a disagreement with lack, and your post is removed.
Post a disagreement about unwanted and poor changes and you receive a forum ban.

Now mod wicked is removed... the only mod that I had any time for, despite her blind support of lacks unwanted changes.

I am very glad I did not pay for membership on this site.

Shame on you lack and co...
You may be good game site designer but as a personnel manager, well you suck...
Stick to your programming. Even that has been poor lately.

If any of this were true this debate would have been silenced. In other words, the fact that you all are allowed to complain proves that your complaints are invalid...

[codeblue1018]

You didn't give us any answers Lack.
More disappointed customers is the result.

Case and point. This site is falling apart. Another reason why I will not renew. Joke!

[demon7896]

This site is going down..., down..., down...
Post a disagreement with lack, and your post is removed.
Post a disagreement about unwanted and poor changes and you receive a forum ban.

Now mod wicked is removed... the only mod that I had any time for, despite her blind support of lacks unwanted changes.

I am very glad I did not pay for membership on this site.

Shame on you lack and co...
You may be good game site designer but as a personnel manager, well you suck...
Stick to your programming. Even that has been poor lately.

If any of this were true this debate would have been silenced. In other words, the fact that you all are allowed to complain proves that your complaints are invalid...

owned.

[DaGip]

Bye Wicked!
FREE XTRA!

[Fircoal]

After all, CC is all about fun. I want you to have fun and I want our volunteers and staff to have fun helping you have fun. That's the way I've always envisioned how this website should be. Yes, this all sucks, a lot, but I'll continue to pour my life into keeping CC centred on fun.

While you at it (pouring I mean), I suggest that you pour some of your attention toward the fact that (as far as I have noticed) the faithful members (those who have been a part of these forums for a year or more) are unanimously agreeing that the Forums had been more fun and had better atmosphere before you decided to give the ultimate power over these forums to Twill. By keeping him in that position, despite repeated protest of Forum users, you have shown how little you care about fairness or user's opinions. While this is certainly your right, I think it is a little naive of you to expect that we will believe your side of the story over Wicked's, who really worked on making these forums fun and troll-free as opposed to your hire-Twill-and-how-you-won't-have-to-be-bothered-again approach.

Wicked - part of the CC community
Lackattack - the guy who's supposedly holding Twill's leash.

Who to trust, who to trust?

P.S. On the bright side of things, I still have a lot more respect you now, then I am going to have after Twill decides to get rid of Andy too.

I QFT Mandy. Of course he didn't listen at first when he should have gotten rid of AK_Iceman. Even after he deleted spamalot, it took a long time for him to be de-modded. >_>

[RjBeals]

I love Andy, but Wicked was the best Mod this site could have hoped for. You don't come across intelligent, respectful, savvy, good-looking and FUN mod's very often. As I said, Wicked did an outstanding job in my eyes. Glad to hear that Lack has no hard feelings. I hope Wicked sticks around this place. It's a better place with her than without.

[Robinette]

Frop if a change in the employee's behavior results in an inability to perform essential job functions that they have previously performed to the employer's satisfaction (and that includes cooperative working relationships with other employees) then the employer is obligated to consider the reasons for that change PRIOR to dismissal. THAT means listening to the employee's verbal response and reviewing any documentation on a diagnosed medical or psychological ailment presented by the employee in their defense. Employee rights vary from incredibly strong to non existent throughout the world, but in the US and Canada, employees have very clear and well defined rights

This is not accurate. The US has "at-will" employment, while Canada and Europe don't. In the US Employee rights provide only limited protection for getting fired from a job. Employment is "at will" in the US, which means that employment is presumed to be voluntary and indefinite for both employers and employees. Consequently, employers have the right to discharge employees, pretty much the same as employees have the right to quit.

So in the absence of employment agreements (contracts) that indicate otherwise, employers may fire employees for any reason, no reason, or even unfair reasons ... the same as employees generally may quit for any reason, no reason, or even unfair reasons.

Employers may not, however, illegally fire employees. But, just because getting fired from a job seemed unfair, doesn't mean that it was illegal. For example, if a manager unfairly discharges an employee clearly in violation of a specific discrimination law, then the discharge was illegal and thus, likely to be wrongful termination.

But, if a manager unfairly discharges an employee because of an unresolved personality conflict that adversely affects the employment relationship, then it's NOT likely to be an illegal discharge and thus, NOT likely to be wrongful termination.

The bottom line in the US... most employers have the right to discharge employees, pretty much the same as employees have the right to quit. I have never been an employer or an employee outside the US, so I don't really know the in's & out's of working life there... but I do know that the "at-will" doctrine that we use here in the US is NOT in Canada and Europe...

[jbrettlip]

Lack and Twill both wrote about Wicked "volunteering", she wrote about being employed. Big difference. With my current job at the IRS, I would be interested in how this income was documented and also if this violates US labor laws.

PS I don't work for the IRS, but I am auditing a fifth of Johnnie Walker Red right now.

[wicked]

I was a paid volunteer. I never said I was an employee. TCO said that based on the research she did and posted.

[Kaplowitz]

I was a paid volunteer. I never said I was an employee. TCO said that based on the research she did and posted.

Isnt that an oxymoron?!

[jpliberty]

...Employee rights vary from incredibly strong to non existent throughout the world, but in the US and Canada, employees have very clear and well defined rights...

As do employers.

Obviously the matter of removing Wicked from her mod duties was unpopular with the CC community. Doesn't make it illegal.

Besides, such law is crap for those who cannot or will not look after themselves. Contracts can be enforced, it's a simple as that. No magic, no bs law (such as MOST "employee" protections).

There are 2 simple issues here (lawyers like to find more, and they get paid for the time spent obfuscating any issue).

The first is Does Lack own the company? If he does, it is his to do with as he pleases.

The second issue is was the contract between Wicked and Lack violated by Lack.

No other crap, like citation of "employee" law will answer those questions.

I don't know if there was any written contract, so it probably is either or both implied/oral.

If, for ANY reason an employer and an employee are not getting along EITHER can terminate the agreement. Or, is there some union for mods with some kind of political pull to cite some BS laws like you are citing.

I don't knock employee protection, but when it butts up against property rights, and when it comes from someone who has written extensively on this topic while never mentioning property rights, well, I have to conclude you are talking out of your you know what.

I don't think the situation with Wicked was handled correctly. I KNOW it is STUPID to try and fan the flames.

[GabonX]

wicked may not have been as bad as some of the people here say she was, but she was far from being a fair and objective moderator as well. On top of that, I think her response to all of this has been very childish. She is acting as though she is entitled to hold a position on someone else's website and this just isn't the case.

[jbrettlip]

A paid volunteer is what I tried to sell my sister as on Bad street, USA> But the cops still said I was pimp.

Anything goes when it comes to ho's, because pimpin ain't easy.

And yes I posted some Big Daddy Kane lyrics. I am old and I am white.

[FabledIntegral]

please go read my posts under "short term disability vs long term ego" Employees have rights, especially when they are sick or disabled...sorry, but the "owner can do anything and it's ok because they own the business" went out of style legally a very LONG time ago.

Hence the firing happened ONCE she got better. Obviously you failed at reading my post, hence me specifying that. She was no longer disabled as she said she was better and off meds, correct?

[wicked]

I was let go for behavior while I was sick/medicated. The decision was sent to me a couple short days after the morphine was out of my system.

[FabledIntegral]

Out of curiosity, did they know from the start of your condition?