A question for the religious

[CrazyAnglican]

Too many are right now (much to my and my previously mentioned girlfriend's chagrin). But how many of them would be better off home-schooled? Particularly by individuals put through the same system. The best way to have wide-scale change is through the public schooling system. If only it were more simple to accomplish...

You and me both. I'm working on it 100 kids ata time.

Funny side story: I asked one of my kids (a really bright one) at the end of school last year what she'd learned in my class. She said "nothing I knew it all before" [I was crestfallen] , "but I can explain it all a lot better, now" [ I lived on that one for weeks]

Yes, but many a great teacher have been terribly misinformed...

Perhaps but that's life. What's the crime in doing the best with what you have?

[Juan_Bottom]

Funny side story: I asked one of my kids (a really bright one) at the end of school last year what she'd learned in my class. She said "nothing I knew it all before" [I was crestfallen] , "but I can explain it all a lot better, now" [ I lived on that one for weeks]

Wish I had a teacher that cared ...

[MeDeFe]

Funny side story: I asked one of my kids (a really bright one) at the end of school last year what she'd learned in my class. She said "nothing I knew it all before" [I was crestfallen] , "but I can explain it all a lot better, now" [ I lived on that one for weeks]

Wish I had a teacher that cared ...

I've had a few, and they're the best kind. I think partly because they demand more of the pupils.

[Juan_Bottom]

Honestly I never have.
But to be fair, I gave up on school in the 7th grade. Mr. Viesel failed me for being an ATHEIST. He failed quit a few of us non-Christians. I complained and got a parent-teacher conference. My mother took their side. It was such a mess, I could have tought his class. He used to hold Bible study during the lunch hour. Man I hate that guy.

And he was my small school's only science teacher. I nearly flunked outta high school. Four credits a year I lost.

[MeDeFe]

Good thing we're secular here.

[Juan_Bottom]

Good thing we're secular here.

You should have seen his tests. 50 questions on Evolution.......... 50 "bonus" questions on Creationism. Ahem *BULLSHIT*

Crazy thing.... everyone loved those test!!!! I was the only one to leave that blank. I'm glad he lost his legs.

[Frigidus]

Good thing we're secular here.

You should have seen his tests. 50 questions on Evolution.......... 50 "bonus" questions on Creationism. Ahem *BULLSHIT*

Crazy thing.... everyone loved those test!!!! I was the only one to leave that blank. I'm glad he lost his legs.

Jeez, I could see that in South Carolina or Georgia, maybe Kansas, but Wisconsin? That's a bit too close to home. Seriously, it's like the North's South.

[Juan_Bottom]

Well, just under the Wisconsin border... But yes. As a kid what I couldn't understand is how/why they were justifying it all. Why fail me? Now I don't care.

[jonesthecurl]

Anyway now for something important....After 30 years of indulging in the filthy habit I have now managed to quit smoking for 1 month and im quite proud of myself

Ok back to the Reasonable v Loony Christian debate....round 164

Keep it up!
I gave up after 25 years, it was the hardest thing ever. But I stuck with it, so did my Mrs, so can you.
Living somewhere that smoking in bars, restaurants, and other places is illegal means I only see people smoke in the street now. It seems like a very odd thing to do now.

But rest assured that you can still smoke in your dreams. I do even now occasionally. It's very satisfying, including the fact that (even though you're asleep) you're indulging in something forbidden.

[Frigidus]

Well, just under the Wisconsin border... But yes. As a kid what I couldn't understand is how/why they were justifying it all. Why fail me? Now I don't care.

WHAAAAT?!?! In Illinois?! My relatively normal home state?! This is appalling. These loonies have us by the throat. I can see why you wouldn't care now, but there's plenty of other non-Christians trying to work their way through the education system. Personally, I think it's pretty clear that as soon as a few complaints come in involving a teacher showing favoritism to particular religious groups he needs to be heavily investigated, and booted out on his ass for giving creationism tests. I'm appalled.

[Neoteny]

Good thing we're secular here.

You should have seen his tests. 50 questions on Evolution.......... 50 "bonus" questions on Creationism. Ahem *BULLSHIT*

Crazy thing.... everyone loved those test!!!! I was the only one to leave that blank. I'm glad he lost his legs.

That is enraging. This was a public school?

[pimpdave]

If I was an incredibly good person (ie. I loved absolutely everybody, always helped them out, good to my neighbors, gave to charity, etc etc), but I simply didn't believe in God - would you consider me damned to Hell? Or would I be accepted to the Pearly Gates anyway?

The question presupposes that there is a heaven to begin with. Is that the intent of your question, to operate under the presupposition, or does questioning the concept of heaven first help you not care so much about the question?

I'm just not so sure that God has let any living humans know, for certain, exactly what comes next.

For all I know, after we all die, our souls go to a television studio and fight for entry to "heaven" in a Running Man contest. Or maybe THAT is heaven. (Of course, that is presupposing we have souls, which only reinforces the point I'm trying to make)

I can, however, tell you this, you'll find out soon enough. We all will.

[CrazyAnglican]

Honestly I never have.
But to be fair, I gave up on school in the 7th grade. Mr. Viesel failed me for being an ATHEIST. He failed quit a few of us non-Christians. I complained and got a parent-teacher conference. My mother took their side. It was such a mess, I could have tought his class. He used to hold Bible study during the lunch hour. Man I hate that guy.

And he was my small school's only science teacher. I nearly flunked outta high school. Four credits a year I lost.

Yeah I can commiserate there. It's pretty enraging to spend the time preparing a rational defense of the early Christian Church (for your professor who thinks that the fall of the Roman Empire can be summed up in one word "Christians") only to receive "Nice try - F" and this person was pulling down a government paycheck as well. There are jerks on both sides; sorry about your teacher.

[InkL0sed]

If I was an incredibly good person (ie. I loved absolutely everybody, always helped them out, good to my neighbors, gave to charity, etc etc), but I simply didn't believe in God - would you consider me damned to Hell? Or would I be accepted to the Pearly Gates anyway?

The question presupposes that there is a heaven to begin with. Is that the intent of your question, to operate under the presupposition, or does questioning the concept of heaven first help you not care so much about the question?

I'm just not so sure that God has let any living humans know, for certain, exactly what comes next.

For all I know, after we all die, our souls go to a television studio and fight for entry to "heaven" in a Running Man contest. Or maybe THAT is heaven. (Of course, that is presupposing we have souls, which only reinforces the point I'm trying to make)

I can, however, tell you this, you'll find out soon enough. We all will.

I'm inquiring as to the beliefs of the religious on these boards. I don't think there is a Heaven, but I want to know whether they think I'm going to Hell or not...

[Juan_Bottom]

Good thing we're secular here.

You should have seen his tests. 50 questions on Evolution.......... 50 "bonus" questions on Creationism. Ahem *BULLSHIT*

Crazy thing.... everyone loved those test!!!! I was the only one to leave that blank. I'm glad he lost his legs.

That is enraging. This was a public school?

Yes. Yes it was, and it was the community that protected him. I was literally powerless.

And it wasn't just his closed view of science that he preached. I can remember more than one occasion where he openly gave "homosexuality is wrong" speeches. As if a Sophmore in High School should care about whether or not some gay couple in New Hampshire decides to adopt.

Well, just under the Wisconsin border... But yes. As a kid what I couldn't understand is how/why they were justifying it all. Why fail me? Now I don't care.

WHAAAAT?!?! In Illinois?! My relatively normal home state?! This is appalling. These loonies have us by the throat. I can see why you wouldn't care now, but there's plenty of other non-Christians trying to work their way through the education system. Personally, I think it's pretty clear that as soon as a few complaints come in involving a teacher showing favoritism to particular religious groups he needs to be heavily investigated, and booted out on his ass for giving creationism tests. I'm appalled.

I tried... but by my Sophmore year I had completely given up hope. I had given up on school. I believe I failed HALF of my classes that year. And I only had two classes with him... But what would anyone else have done? I was utterly defeated.

When I say I don't care... I mean that I don't care what they told themselves to make it ok to fail me. I have no apathy for any of them.

I agree that he should have been removed. In the 7th grade I was certain that it would take a single LOUD complaint. Our superintendant would check my test, ask a few questions... and that would be that. Boy was I wrong.

I'm just not so sure that God has let any living humans know, for certain, exactly what comes next.

For all I know, after we all die, our souls go to a television studio and fight for entry to "heaven" in a Running Man contest. Or maybe THAT is heaven. (Of course, that is presupposing we have souls, which only reinforces the point I'm trying to make)

I heard that there are houses in heaven. And though we will be perfectly happy with whatever house we get, the size of your house will be in proportion to the amount of God's work that you do on Earth. Weirdos huh?

[jonesthecurl]

Do the houses have kitchens? bathrooms? Do you sleep in Heaven?

[Juan_Bottom]

Do the houses have kitchens? bathrooms? Do you sleep in Heaven?

You'd have to ask PACKRAT... he was trying his best to explain it... and I did my best to be respectful and listen.

My thing was, if I'll be supremely happy either way, then why should I care now?

But I bit my tongue.

[CrazyAnglican]

Nobody is outraged at my unfair teacher?

Actually it doesn't surprise me. I can see where you guys wouldn't want to talk about it that much. I didn't mention it for sympathy as much as to further a point.

Juan, I still (as an educator) am outraged by your teacher's actions. From what you have said there are several things he's done that would get him censured or fired in my system (which is in Georgia btw Frigidus ). Other things you've mentioned like Bible Study are completely legal (assuming he wasn't grabbing kids in arm bars to get them to come). My point here is that he's a bad teacher (imo, from what you have said).

As a Christian I'm angered by his actions. He missed the point and distracted kids from the faith through his bigotry. Among other things, what you have there is a homophobe using Christianity as a "reason" to think less of others. Really, is it that he's a Christian or that he's a power abusing bigot that burns you up about him?

Let's turn it around though. You can read, and write. I'm assuming that you have picked up a thing or two like Algebra, History, Geography, etc. and odds are most of the people that taught you those things were Christian too. They came to work everyday (most everyday) and went about their jobs without the slightest interest in your religious views. To them you were a kid, period. You were every bit as important as every other kid in the class.

In contrast, my own experience with the same type of teacher doesn't really fuel any animosity (other than making a point of coming up and shaking her hand after graduation). She was just another person who had an agenda that she let become more important than actually doing her job. No need for a label beyond jerk.

[MeDeFe]

Of course we are CA, though not more than at Juan's, but one can only express so much outrage at a time on an internet forum before being accused of flaming OOFW.

[CrazyAnglican]

thanks

[Snorri1234]

:lol: thanks

It was also rather hard to really relate to because for all I know your teacher had a very valid point or something. I know virtually nothing about the early christian church, though thinking only one factor caused the fall of anything is rather silly indeed.

I'm also not very outraged because it wasn't a science-teacher.

[CrazyAnglican]

It was also rather hard to really relate to because for all I know your teacher had a very valid point or something.

So Juan gets the benefit of the doubt but not me Okay, let me clarify. I made nothing under a 85% or so in any history class that I've taken, ever (aside from that one which I failed). I recently took a multi-state test to get certified to teach History and missed a perfect score by 3 points out of 200 and something possible points. Not to mention when it's customary to actually tell a student the weaknesses in their paper (so they can, you know , learn something). This individual returned a paper that had no critique on it at all. Just "Nice Try - F".

thinking only one factor caused the fall of anything is rather silly indeed.

Bingo. Lead lined pipes, centuries of corruption, one possibly clinically disturbed autocrat after another in charge (most Roman Emperors were capable, but you can't overlook the likes of Commodus, Caligula, etc.). Never getting around to actually putting a mechanism in place to choose the best person for the job of head hancho. None of those things could contribute to the downfall of a government could they? Had to be the Christians.

I'm also not very outraged because it wasn't a science-teacher.

So more than 80% of the teachers in the world can be incompetent nutjobs and you don't care as long as they're not scientists. I have to admit I'm speechless there.

[MeDeFe]

I'm also not very outraged because it wasn't a science-teacher.

So more than 80% of the teachers in the world can be incompetent nutjobs and you don't care as long as they're not scientists. I have to admit I'm speechless there.

I think it might be that Snorri doesn't have a very high opinion of the humanities since they're "soft sciences".


And it's spelt 'honcho', not 'hancho'.

[CrazyAnglican]

I think it might be that Snorri doesn't have a very high opinion of the humanities since they're "soft sciences".

Sure, but good luck teaching hard sciences with a bunch of incompetent nutjob grammar, reading, and math teachers responsible for preparing your students for them. Not to mention why would you not be outraged by anyone abusing power to push an agenda.

And it's spelt 'honcho', not 'hancho'.

Quite true Japanese borrowed word, thanks.

[jonesthecurl]

I think the reason people responded more readily to Juan's outrage was the level of detail.
Consider me appalled by both examples.
I do think that in general teaching is probably better these days than it was a few decades ago. When I think back on my own school days, I don't remember any bigots particularly (apart from the French teacher, who was an avowed Fascist), but I do remember teachers who were appallingly incompetent.