My take on a common argument made regarding Global Warming

[GabonX]

Often times I hear people make the argument that people are to small to have an affect as dramatic as global warming on the planet we live on. If this were true it would be impossible for germs to make a person sick as germs are relative in size to a person as people are to the planet.

Discuss?

[black elk speaks]

i believe that you are right. more important to me is the moral obligation to make the least impact on the environment that you can. i recycle as much as i can and always try to make the most of what i have. if only mankind had a predator. like bacteria has white blood cells. then our waste would not be so toxic to our host.

[Snorri1234]

Often times I hear people make the argument that people are to small to have an affect as dramatic as global warming on the planet we live on. If this were true it would be impossible for germs to make a person sick as germs are relative in size to a person as people are to the planet.

Discuss?

I agree.

more important to me is the moral obligation to make the least impact on the environment that you can

I agree also. Even if global warming didn't exist, we're still depleting the world of resources by our careless use.

[jay_a2j]

Often times I hear people make the argument that people are to small to have an affect as dramatic as global warming on the planet we live on. If this were true it would be impossible for germs to make a person sick as germs are relative in size to a person as people are to the planet.

Discuss?

That is a lame argument. The Earth has its own cleansing system. It repairs itself. Just like the human body.

[GabonX]

Often times I hear people make the argument that people are to small to have an affect as dramatic as global warming on the planet we live on. If this were true it would be impossible for germs to make a person sick as germs are relative in size to a person as people are to the planet.

Discuss?

That is a lame argument. The Earth has its own cleansing system. It repairs itself. Just like the human body.

I'm not sure that the Earth does have a "cleansing system" as I do not know if the Earth is a living thing, but I'll go along with your statement anyway.

You claim that the Earth has a cleansing system like the human body's. We know that the human body's defenses are imperfect therefore it would stand to reason that the Earth's cleansing system would also be imperfect. We know this is the case as we have already deforested large areas, polluted others, and put holes in the ozone layer.

Rationally speaking, the argument that people are to small to have an affect on the planet holds no ground as germs are insignifigant in size when compared to the mass of a human body but can still end a person's life.

I've yet to hear a persuasive counter argument.

[jay_a2j]

Often times I hear people make the argument that people are to small to have an affect as dramatic as global warming on the planet we live on. If this were true it would be impossible for germs to make a person sick as germs are relative in size to a person as people are to the planet.

Discuss?

That is a lame argument. The Earth has its own cleansing system. It repairs itself. Just like the human body.

I'm not sure that the Earth does have a "cleansing system" as I do not know if the Earth is a living thing, but I'll go along with your statement anyway.

You claim that the Earth has a cleansing system like the human body's. We know that the human body's defenses are imperfect therefore it would stand to reason that the Earth's cleansing system would also be imperfect. We know this is the case as we have already deforested large areas, polluted others, and put holes in the ozone layer.

Rationally speaking, the argument that people are to small to have an affect on the planet holds no ground as germs are insignifigant in size when compared to the mass of a human body but can still end a person's life.

I've yet to hear a persuasive counter argument.

Of course if there was an all out nuclear war, it would have massive consequences on our environment. So man can effect the climate. The warming that people are taking about now, I believe is caused by sunspot activity. We aren't going to "save the Earth" by using less hairspray, stop diving, and recycling plastic bottles. This is giving us humans much more power than we actually have.

[bbqpenguin]

i dunno if that's a great metaphor... seems to me like you're comparing apples to oranges. also, humans compared to the earth are miniscule in relation to germs compared to humans.

interesting way of putting it though. i think a better metaphor for the earth might be "even a mighty mountain is worn down by enough raindrops" or something cheesy like that

[black elk speaks]

i dunno if that's a great metaphor... seems to me like you're comparing apples to oranges. also, humans compared to the earth are miniscule in relation to germs compared to humans.

interesting way of putting it though. i think a better metaphor for the earth might be "even a mighty mountain is worn down by enough raindrops" or something cheesy like that

germs don't generally make vast numbers of toxic factories to kill their hosts. and there are more than 6.7 billion people now. that is steadily rowing. to suggest that people are not a contributor global warming is a mistake. think of it this way, if you have a house and live on a major river and have a septic tank, you stand to risk the eco-system of that river if you neglect to maintain your septic system. now put 99 other homes around you and you all stand to risk that river. it only takes 5 percent of you to seriously impact that river by neglecting your system. every little bit counts, especially when you pay attention to long term impacts on cities and environments. how much trash to you put into the landfill every week.

[Snorri1234]

i dunno if that's a great metaphor... seems to me like you're comparing apples to oranges. also, humans compared to the earth are miniscule in relation to germs compared to humans.

A medium-sized virus next to a flea is roughly equivalent to a human next to a mountain twice the size of Mount Everest.


Viruses (or whatever you call them) are about 10x-7 metres. They are so fucking tiny you can't really grasp the size. Earth has a mean radius of about 6.371 km, which is far less holy shit big when you compare humans with it than if you compare viruses with humans. My maths may be a bit off, but honestly the difference is not that big.


It's a fitting analogy. Not entirely perfect, but at least it dispells the notion that something tiny can't affect something big. (Especially when you take 6 billion of those tiny's.)

[jay_a2j]

They could say "We found a cure for cancer and a vaccine that prevents cancer!" People would line up in droves to "get the shot" only to find out it causes the respiratory system to shut down and then you die. The media is a POWERFUL agent that can be used to deceive on a mass scale, and as long as sheep exist, they will stay in business. Not a single person here can say they know for a fact humans cause global warming. But the media says it, so it must be true. Think for yourselves for a change.

[pancakemix]

i dunno if that's a great metaphor... seems to me like you're comparing apples to oranges. also, humans compared to the earth are miniscule in relation to germs compared to humans.

A medium-sized virus next to a flea is roughly equivalent to a human next to a mountain twice the size of Mount Everest.


Viruses (or whatever you call them) are about 10x-7 metres. They are so fucking tiny you can't really grasp the size. Earth has a mean radius of about 6.371 km, which is far less holy shit big when you compare humans with it than if you compare viruses with humans. My maths may be a bit off, but honestly the difference is not that big.


It's a fitting analogy. Not entirely perfect, but at least it dispells the notion that something tiny can't affect something big. (Especially when you take 6 billion of those tiny's.)

Actually, with bacteria, it only takes one. If one bacterium/virus infects one cell, it mass produces genetic code and can spread throughout the body. If one person tries to change the environment, it doesn't make 1000 people do their part, and those people making 1000 more people each want to help, etc, ad infinitum. Unless of course, that person is a politician.

That analogy sucks.

[Snorri1234]

They could say "We found a cure for cancer and a vaccine that prevents cancer!" People would line up in droves to "get the shot" only to find out it causes the respiratory system to shut down and then you die. The media is a POWERFUL agent that can be used to deceive on a mass scale, and as long as sheep exist, they will stay in business. Not a single person here can say they know for a fact humans cause global warming. But the media says it, so it must be true. Think for yourselves for a change.

lol.

Actually, with bacteria, it only takes one. If one bacterium/virus infects one cell, it mass produces genetic code and can spread throughout the body. If one person tries to change the environment, it doesn't make 1000 people do their part, and those people making 1000 more people each want to help, etc, ad infinitum. Unless of course, that person is a politician.

That analogy sucks.

Ofcourse it sucks if you take the analogy too far. Humans are not viruses.

[pancakemix]

What defines "taking it too far", though? That's just on a base level of thought process and it undermines the whole analogy. Am I supposed to just not think about it and swallow it like it's fact just because it was said?

[Anarkistsdream]

Humans aren't a virus... They're a parasite...

[black elk speaks]

They could say "We found a cure for cancer and a vaccine that prevents cancer!" People would line up in droves to "get the shot" only to find out it causes the respiratory system to shut down and then you die. The media is a POWERFUL agent that can be used to deceive on a mass scale, and as long as sheep exist, they will stay in business. Not a single person here can say they know for a fact humans cause global warming. But the media says it, so it must be true. Think for yourselves for a change.

if you can think more abstractly and change the idea of a germ propagating itself to the concept of an idea, then it fits. besides it only makes sense to reuse as much of your recourses as possible. i hear that the energy that is saved from recycling one aluminum can is enough to power one tv set for the entire duration of the super bowl game.

[wrestler1ump]

There is no comparison. Germs are different than humans and the ozone layer.

[jay_a2j]

i hear that the energy that is saved from recycling one aluminum can is enough to power one tv set for the entire duration of the super bowl game.

You hear, so it must be true. This is the problem. The media has absolute control over us. What they say, the vast majority will believe. I wonder how much actual history varies from US history books.


We can't know if the energy saved from one aluminum can being recycled can power a tv for a year. But that's what we are told. There has to be a place we can draw the line, otherwise nothing can prevent the media from controlling us.

[Snorri1234]

What defines "taking it too far", though? That's just on a base level of thought process and it undermines the whole analogy. Am I supposed to just not think about it and swallow it like it's fact just because it was said?

No. You should actually read the analogy.

The intent of this analogy was to show that small things can affect large things. You can't dismiss the intent and compare the two things on a different note and claim it's a bad analogy. It's about one particular trait, not about the whole thing.

If you take “Dictionaries are like watches; the worst is better than none, and the best cannot be expected to go quite true.” and claim that it's a bad analogy because dictionaries don't tell you the time and are rarely made out of metal, then you're either an utter idiot or just a dick.

[jonesthecurl]

They could say "We found a cure for cancer and a vaccine that prevents cancer!" People would line up in droves to "get the shot" only to find out it causes the respiratory system to shut down and then you die. The media is a POWERFUL agent that can be used to deceive on a mass scale, and as long as sheep exist, they will stay in business. Not a single person here can say they know for a fact humans cause global warming. But the media says it, so it must be true. Think for yourselves for a change.

Frankly, when someone takes every word in the bible as literal truth, and then tells you to "think for yourself", I think it's time to check the reading on the "bloody loony" meter.

[Iliad]

i hear that the energy that is saved from recycling one aluminum can is enough to power one tv set for the entire duration of the super bowl game.

You hear, so it must be true. This is the problem. The media has absolute control over us. What they say, the vast majority will believe. I wonder how much actual history varies from US history books.


We can't know if the energy saved from one aluminum can being recycled can power a tv for a year. But that's what we are told. There has to be a place we can draw the line, otherwise nothing can prevent the media from controlling us.

Jay you take so many things for granted. Why is it in this case, when experts state something, it has to be a lie? These are people who study this for their living. I'm guessing they know what they are talking about.

You on the other hand have no arguments but "don't believe everything they say!! CONSPIRACY!!!SHIFTY ELEVEN!!111"

[black elk speaks]

i hear that the energy that is saved from recycling one aluminum can is enough to power one tv set for the entire duration of the super bowl game.

You hear, so it must be true. This is the problem. The media has absolute control over us. What they say, the vast majority will believe. I wonder how much actual history varies from US history books.


We can't know if the energy saved from one aluminum can being recycled can power a tv for a year. But that's what we are told. There has to be a place we can draw the line, otherwise nothing can prevent the media from controlling us.

actually it was in an ad campaign for Anheisure Busch. i would hope that in their efforts to promote their green policies that they would not fabricate lies. and if you think about how much energy it takes to mine transport and refine raw aluminum, you might find that the claim is plausible. i mean, you could look a fact up before shooting it down:

http://www.google.com/search?source=ig&hl=en&rlz=1G1GGLQ_ENUS289&=&q=energy+saved+from+recycling+aluminum&btnG=Google+Search

and i didn't say "power a tv for a year" i said long enough to watch the super bowl. now, be careful how you read what people write, others are reading.

[jay_a2j]

They could say "We found a cure for cancer and a vaccine that prevents cancer!" People would line up in droves to "get the shot" only to find out it causes the respiratory system to shut down and then you die. The media is a POWERFUL agent that can be used to deceive on a mass scale, and as long as sheep exist, they will stay in business. Not a single person here can say they know for a fact humans cause global warming. But the media says it, so it must be true. Think for yourselves for a change.

Frankly, when someone takes every word in the bible as literal truth, and then tells you to "think for yourself", I think it's time to check the reading on the "bloody loony" meter.

That would be because the Bible has proven to be more reliable than the media.

[pancakemix]

What defines "taking it too far", though? That's just on a base level of thought process and it undermines the whole analogy. Am I supposed to just not think about it and swallow it like it's fact just because it was said?

No. You should actually read the analogy.

The intent of this analogy was to show that small things can affect large things. You can't dismiss the intent and compare the two things on a different note and claim it's a bad analogy. It's about one particular trait, not about the whole thing.

If you take “Dictionaries are like watches; the worst is better than none, and the best cannot be expected to go quite true.” and claim that it's a bad analogy because dictionaries don't tell you the time and are rarely made out of metal, then you're either an utter idiot or just a dick.

1 germ = possible infection of multiple people
100 germs = possible infection of hundreds of people
1 person = not enough to protect the environment
100 people = a little better, but nowhere close
10000 people = still not enough

Do you see where I'm going with this? One person doesn't mean jack squat, while 1 germ can lead to the death of 1/3 of Europe. Analogy = suck.

[black elk speaks]

That would be because the Bible has proven to be more reliable than the media.

and so we digress into a religious discussion? little more than names of people and places have been 'proven' in the bible, i am afraid.

1 germ = possible infection of multiple people
100 germs = possible infection of hundreds of people
1 person = not enough to protect the environment
100 people = a little better, but nowhere close
10000 people = still not enough

Do you see where I'm going with this? One person doesn't mean jack squat, while 1 germ can lead to the death of 1/3 of Europe. Analogy = suck.

i think you are looking at this backwards.

2 people = possibly procreate and make more people. create a nation with of millions people
100 people = possible create of hundreds of nations
1 person = not enough to pollute and kill the environment
100 people = a little better, but nowhere close
6,700,000,000 people = sure can put a strain on a planets health.

[pancakemix]

6,699,990,000 = still does a lot to harm the environment.