Obama and Hillary are in a sinking boat, who survives?

[Iliad]

Actually, that's a load of bullshit. Black men have traditionally stayed away from swimming sports because genetically they tend to develop a more dense muscle mass, which decreases buoyancy.

That actually sounds even more like bullshit than what pimpdave said.

The reason that black people are not present in some sports is probably cultural, though maybe not the reason that Pimpdave gives. I mean, you don't see any black people playing Hockey, are they genetically unable to do that?

That's because black people tend to have a less dense muscle mass, thus get cold very easily.

And a lot of them don't play chess for a living because umm...help me out here guys?

[Neoteny]

I'm pretty sure "muscle density" doesn't exist.

[jiminski]

I'm pretty sure "muscle density" doesn't exist.

I think he means 'mussel density'! Black people have developed a genetic symbiosis with various molluscs. (the hosts sweat acts to salinate and hydrate their land-bound passengers)
Though useful as a protein supplement on long journeys, in their largely nomadic life, the more successful and 'dense' the mollusc colony, the less aqua-dynamic the 'individual' becomes!

[Snorri1234]

Actually, that's a load of bullshit. Black men have traditionally stayed away from swimming sports because genetically they tend to develop a more dense muscle mass, which decreases buoyancy.

That actually sounds even more like bullshit than what pimpdave said.

*Sigh*

Book on the subject from 1998:

http://books.google.com/books?id=SAa_Ga ... t#PPA91,M1

Here's another one, 2004, on general health:

http://books.google.com/books?id=341lBf ... &ct=result

I don't actually know jack about these books, but it took me two minutes on Google to find them... and I didn't even bother looking at articles. It's been accepted as scientific fact for some time, with no specific information to indicate anything otherwise. For crying out loud, it's why African-Americans are at less risk for osteoporosis... a commonly known fact in today's pharmaceutical world. Try using your brain before your mouth?

To be sure, African-Americans are perfectly capable of developing the lower bone and muscle density required to be world-class swimmers - but they're genetically disposed not to do so. You can hunt cultural factors as much as you like - but that doesn't permit you to ignore the science. African Americans are genetically disposed towards higher bone and muscle density and lower body fat ratios, all of which reduce buoyancy. And while that won't matter much for your casual dip at the local pool, at world-class levels where hundredths of seconds count... well, it matters. So while an African-American certainly could become a world-class swimmer, they would have to deal with all the usual problems that swimmers deal with... plus their body's tendency to betray them.

The problem is that genetic factors rarely influence sports to such a great deal. Black people are far better sprinters, probably because of the same reason they're worse swimmers, but you still see white people running. And African Americans aren't the only black people in the world.


Honestly, the reason some sports aren't played by certain groups is cultural. America isn't in the top-countries for hockey (not ice, but normal), is that because they're genetically predisposed to suck at it or something? No, it's because they simply don't have it ingrained in their culture. It's as simple as that. You can see black people rarely play sports that are expensive to learn or that can not be done outside a specialized gym/field. It's not because they are genetically predisposed to suck at those sports, they just don't play them because of cultural factors.

[Snorri1234]

I'm pretty sure "muscle density" doesn't exist.

It does exist. Weird thing is that the density of mammelian muscles is pretty much the same. Rats, bears and humans have the same density.

[Frigidus]

I'm pretty sure "muscle density" doesn't exist.

It does exist. Weird thing is that the density of mammelian muscles is pretty much the same. Rats, bears and humans have the same density.

Indeed. It would seem that black people are the only exception.

[MeDeFe]

I'm pretty sure "muscle density" doesn't exist.

It does exist. Weird thing is that the density of mammelian muscles is pretty much the same. Rats, bears and humans have the same density.

Indeed. It would seem that black people are the only exception.

This proves that black humans aren't mammals. Maybe they're mussels...

[kerntheconkerer]

You guys are taking this way to seriously. I wasn't really asking that, but it was more of a joke to make fun of how lame they are and would ruin america

[Frigidus]

You guys are taking this way to seriously. I wasn't really asking that, but it was more of a joke to make fun of how lame they are and would ruin america

Oh...ooooooooooooooh, we must have missed that. Damn. All right boys, lets pack this one up, we've completely misread the point of this.

[kerntheconkerer]

You guys are taking this way to seriously. I wasn't really asking that, but it was more of a joke to make fun of how lame they are and would ruin america

Oh...ooooooooooooooh, we must have missed that. Damn. All right boys, lets pack this one up, we've completely misread the point of this.

LOL
did you seriously not read the first post of this topic as well as the title? OMG this forum should be called 'idiots who have nothing better to do that be idiots'

[jiminski]

... OMG this forum should be called 'idiots who have nothing better to do that be idiots'

heheh you can be hall monitor.

[Bones2484]

You guys are taking this way to seriously. I wasn't really asking that, but it was more of a joke to make fun of how lame they are and would ruin america

Oh...ooooooooooooooh, we must have missed that. Damn. All right boys, lets pack this one up, we've completely misread the point of this.

LOL
did you seriously not read the first post of this topic as well as the title? OMG this forum should be called 'idiots who have nothing better to do that be idiots'

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sarcasm

[Neoteny]

I deem this thread to be a failure. Carry on.

[Fircoal]

You guys are taking this way to seriously. I wasn't really asking that, but it was more of a joke to make fun of how lame they are and would ruin america

Oh...ooooooooooooooh, we must have missed that. Damn. All right boys, lets pack this one up, we've completely misread the point of this.

LOL
did you seriously not read the first post of this topic as well as the title? OMG this forum should be called 'idiots who have nothing better to do that be idiots'

Considering you think McCain will be better than Obama, I believe the idiot is you

[Nikolai]

The problem is that genetic factors rarely influence sports to such a great deal. Black people are far better sprinters, probably because of the same reason they're worse swimmers, but you still see white people running. And African Americans aren't the only black people in the world.


Honestly, the reason some sports aren't played by certain groups is cultural. America isn't in the top-countries for hockey (not ice, but normal), is that because they're genetically predisposed to suck at it or something? No, it's because they simply don't have it ingrained in their culture. It's as simple as that. You can see black people rarely play sports that are expensive to learn or that can not be done outside a specialized gym/field. It's not because they are genetically predisposed to suck at those sports, they just don't play them because of cultural factors.

Umm... you quoted my answer to this idea. Congratulations - you fail fifth grade on reading comprehension... Let me try to make it more easily comprehensible.

Sure, there might be cultural reasons for participation in some sports. I happen to think that "culture" as used there can be defined very, very broadly, so it's hard to miss, but sure. It just so happens that there are genetic reasons for this one. Stop trying to explain them away.

[got tonkaed]

id argue you might be attempting to force them. We live in a world where athletic contests offer rewards than come at incredible price tags. I think i read somewhere on this forum that olympic gold cost about 50,000,000 dollars and that was in the last olympics. With that kind of money around it is perhaps foolish to assume the athletes that we see are not developed in a culture that is incredibly suited to honing the specific gifts and talents that they possess. When we start to talk about the incredible precision required to attain such levels of performance we can safely trod foward in removing the simplisitic explanation of genetic difference.

Children are tabbed too early and trained for far too long to simply tout genetic difference. It is not at all as if these individuals sat in an isolated state far from cultural attuning and just performed their craft at the end of a long road of training. To eliminate culture is to eliminate the process, and to eliminate the process and the costs involved is to in modern terms eliminate the competition.

[Nikolai]

Did you read any of the information to which I posted links earlier? No? Then stop rambling.

[got tonkaed]

Did you read any of the information to which I posted links earlier? No? Then stop rambling.

i simply responded to the post you made which had an analytical error, ill attempt to read the information posted later on, but ill assume if it comes from a similar framework, a similar charge could just as equally be leveled.

If your wrong in part the first time, your just as likely to be wrong again later.

[jiminski]

Did you read any of the information to which I posted links earlier? No? Then stop rambling.

i simply responded to the post you made which had an analytical error, ill attempt to read the information posted later on, but ill assume if it comes from a similar framework, a similar charge could just as equally be leveled.

If your wrong in part the first time, your just as likely to be wrong again later.

Having sprinted at a decent junior level throughout the UK, i can safely say that at the highest level, Black kids are inherently faster than anyone else.
Had i committed more to the discipline i could have been faster .. i could have reached a very respectable time as an adult... but not in a million years of physical,(even with steroids) mental and technical honing could i have reached the absolute highest level.

For Javelin, discus, hockey, swimming, pole-vault etc... these activities have far greater cultural bias.. but for raw speed, for whatever reason, the fastest Black kids with a high protein, 1st world diet are faster than a comparable White kid.


Now the problem with this position is that it opens up the sinister specter of selective breading leading to genetic variations between races.. Though this is patently obviously the case, it then leads us down the road of mental superiority versus physical superiority!

this is a taboo subject which i will not entertain either.

[Nikolai]

Did you read any of the information to which I posted links earlier? No? Then stop rambling.

i simply responded to the post you made which had an analytical error, ill attempt to read the information posted later on, but ill assume if it comes from a similar framework, a similar charge could just as equally be leveled.

If your wrong in part the first time, your just as likely to be wrong again later.

Quite the contrary. You didn't point out any analytical error... you offered speculation to justify a hypothesis that ignores the information previously offered.

[got tonkaed]

Did you read any of the information to which I posted links earlier? No? Then stop rambling.

i simply responded to the post you made which had an analytical error, ill attempt to read the information posted later on, but ill assume if it comes from a similar framework, a similar charge could just as equally be leveled.

If your wrong in part the first time, your just as likely to be wrong again later.

Quite the contrary. You didn't point out any analytical error... you offered speculation to justify a hypothesis that ignores the information previously offered.

your analytical error was in that post so why would i resort originally to the information before until you brought it up. The error you made was simply to exclude culture or to attempt to explain it away because it was "too broadly defined". Simply saying someone is trying to explain away your answer, when it is in all likelyhood a smaller portion of the greater one at best, is an error of analysis.

[kerntheconkerer]

You guys are taking this way to seriously. I wasn't really asking that, but it was more of a joke to make fun of how lame they are and would ruin america

Oh...ooooooooooooooh, we must have missed that. Damn. All right boys, lets pack this one up, we've completely misread the point of this.

LOL
did you seriously not read the first post of this topic as well as the title? OMG this forum should be called 'idiots who have nothing better to do that be idiots'

Considering you think McCain will be better than Obama, I believe the idiot is you

obama has no experience whatsoever. McCain served in the army and was a POW, etc etc. all obama can do is convince some americans he can lead them, while also saying he'll raise taxes in almost every possible way. he hasnt even voted on a bill in the whopping 2 years he's been there

[Nikolai]

Did you read any of the information to which I posted links earlier? No? Then stop rambling.

i simply responded to the post you made which had an analytical error, ill attempt to read the information posted later on, but ill assume if it comes from a similar framework, a similar charge could just as equally be leveled.

If your wrong in part the first time, your just as likely to be wrong again later.

Quite the contrary. You didn't point out any analytical error... you offered speculation to justify a hypothesis that ignores the information previously offered.

your analytical error was in that post so why would i resort originally to the information before until you brought it up. The error you made was simply to exclude culture or to attempt to explain it away because it was "too broadly defined". Simply saying someone is trying to explain away your answer, when it is in all likelyhood a smaller portion of the greater one at best, is an error of analysis.

Actually, I was quite clear that culture could have an effect. I was also quite clear when I stated that this position was too easy to defend, since "culture" can mean almost anything, and that cultural effects certainly don't provide justification for ignoring physical reasons.

For instance, I offer this statement: clearly, there aren't as many Asian polo players because of culture. But that statement doesn't mean anything. It could mean that that historically, polo isn't an Asian sport. It could mean that horses aren't as common in Asia. It could mean that Asians see something dishonorable about it. Or (just to toss out a hypothesis) it could have to do with how Asians as a general rule don't have the arm length for effective polo play. (Note that I say as a general rule, since there are certainly exceptions... some of whom play in the NBA. But the general rule means a lower probability of long-armed polo players.)

Note that I am not excluding culture, as you charge. I am, however, saying that seeking out nebulous "cultural" reasons for everything you see is ridiculous, and attempting to pin under-representation in a specific sport on 150 year dead slaveowners is moronic when there is a simpler explanation at hand. Some things really can be explained by hard science!

[Neoteny]

= hard science is teh win.

[Nikolai]

Well, at least it's usually a good start.