Who has two thumbs and hates Barack Obama?

[xruan]

That guy. Oh and me.

Yeah, thats right, I'm 16 years old and am not yet brainwashed by the incessant media. I hate Barack Obama.

To all the high schoolers who think that Barack Obama is the messiah, take a good look at the actual facts of the Obama campaign.

Senator Barack Obama is a joke. He maybe an outsider to Washington but he's no enemy of the Daley Democratic Machine of Chicago. Obama slithered his way up the political ladder by being no more than a charismatic illusionist.

To quote Rudy Giuliani, America's mayor, "He's never run a city, he's never run a state, he's never run a business, he's never administered a payroll, he's never led people in crisis." Lets send a junior senator to the White house with little more than 4 years of legis... oh wait... he's spent most of that time in Africa or running for president. Where is the change for Illinois, Mr. Obama? Where is the dismantling of the old guard of Chicago , Mr. Obama? Oh right... there isn't any and there won't be any for America.

Obama is little more than a second Jimmy Carter who plays the race card. Nothing is new about Obama aside from the fact that his skin has slightly darker pigments than the other 43 presidents.

By no means do I say vote McCain, I was adamantly against his selection from the get go. However, when you size up both McCain and Obama, side by side and without the glitz and glamor. You see one clearly qualified man who has fought hard his whole life and one who has been given a free ticket to the top.

Obama is the epitome of America's ignorance. A vote for Obama is not a vote for progression, but regression.

[oVo]

Well at least you know how old you are.

[bbqpenguin]

i like you more and more every day exxy

[xruan]

Love ya too, bbq!

[InkL0sed]

ok this will certainly be brief, but anyone who is going to vote obama can be fairly confident that they are making a strong choice on a few different fronts.

1) the economy - honestly this is what should matter the most. Not the war, not global warming, not energy (though its important) but the economic stupid (as some have said in the past). We have a pretty ugly budget problem right now. For a very friendly look at obama's economic policy i recommend that article pimpdave/reminisco posted in cb in the biden thread. It shows in a number of key areas, especially taxation and sensible regulation, where obama makes very sound, and by no means strictly far left (socialist for the uniformed arguers out there) choices. The fact is for the vast majority of the country, you are getting more money in your pocketbook with obama rather than mccain. When you consider what really ruins many americans (payroll taxes) is being handled far more adequatly by obama than by mccain, you realize there is a lot of misinformation about economic policy out there. Mccains extension of the bush tax cuts, is about the worst long term economic decision you can make in my opinion right now, and does nothing but put us well behind the 8 ball as far as budgetary policy in the future. Likewise his argument that cutting out the pork will take care of it is rediculous as pork, although a serious problem, doesnt add up to nearly the type of money that your getting in debt.

As lefty thinkers one of things i saw in the article that really made me happy was how obamas redistribution doesnt end up accidentally screwing over lower income individuals (like previous plans by both parties have). The college credit was an especially notable example of this. When your full credit ends up being more than what you owe (when you qualify) they dont simply just pay the tuition bill and leave you with no money (something that often happens in current financial aid and is tragic when manifested out). You get the additional money, which has the positive effect of putting money into peoples pockets who need it and are likely to use it. In a sense its a more guided and sensible stimulus.

If i was a judge, i would certainly score the economy for obama.

2) Foreign policy - aside from the favorable nomination of biden as a veep, obama has shown at times that he has the right framework (thought he still kills me with some of the things he says - the 100 percent jerusalem for israel being the prime example). The middle east as far as foreign policy goes, is something that in our best interests has a number of competing states with no overly strong ones (other than israel). The consequence of a mccain presidency would very likely be a grouping of arab states led by Iran who would begin to threaten our interests by distorting what was a relatively stable area, even during the times of Saddam. Sharanksy is a bit of a losers proposition in the long run, as critical foreign policy thinkers who want the US best interest served, we should focus more on what they do and less on who they are. We have lost Syria and Lebanon and created a strong Iran as a part of a bush presidency, mccain would only exacerbate the problem. Obamas willingness to engage in diplomacy (and not the we are going to change your gov kind) is a far more mature step, and is the right approach to take in long term issues, like china and india.

3) Energy - i am not entirely sold on mccain as far as energy goes. Though the two of them have fairly similar goals as far as platforms go, one of them is willing to spend on it and the other isnt. While obama has made some investments in the past i dont wish to see repeated (youd expect it from a farm state senator in an ethanol craze) i believe at least that he is willing to try and solve a problem that has long term economic and national security issues for our country. I believe mccain would just have us keep drilling and trying to use a big stick to solve our dependency issue. In this case, being willing to try and implement a plan is better than not doing so.

4) Global warming - one candidate has said things like "the polar bears have learned to adapt to the changing climate, so can we". Jon Stewart jokingly deadpanned that they did so by dying. While mccain has pandered quite a bit toward climate change in the run up to the election, i have a feeling it is one of his flipper issues, similar to how he has embraced religion after being staunchly against the religious right for a fair amount of his political career. I believe obama will be willing to make some difficult and potentially unpopular choices in order to start on solving the problem. I also believe though that he wouldnt get caught up in a frenzy about it, as global warming, though an incredibly serious issue, is not the primary issue of concern for the american right now, especially when you consider the political difficultly of implementing solutions.

5) He has a healthcare plan and it doesnt suck. People cry socialism everytime a democrat suggests a healthcare plan and it is a bit rediculous. Obamas plan differs in that it does not mandate that you get healthcare, but it provides the financial incentive to do so. While you could argue there is potential for abuse here, it seems rather silly when compared to mccains seemingly non existent healthcare plan with our world renowned healh insurance system which despite having the best healthcare in the world for the very rich, leaves about 30 million americans without healthcare (me being one of them when i get back home).

6) Although obama is often accused of lacking substance and simply spouting off dreams, mccain has very rarely actually shown what he is going to do. He has spent the latter part of the campaign using a karl rove strategy of attacking the opponent into a bloody mess, which is very unpresidential. His economic, healthcare, energy, and social policy is often rather vague, because for the most part he switches on it more than obama does. A lot of the things which obama is accused of, could just as accurately if not more so, be an indicator of mccain.

7) at the end of the day you should be able to look at your president and project where the country will be in a best and less so optimistic scenario. Since i find best case scenarios silly, i often prefer the worst. In a bad obama presidency, we likely do not solve many of the problems, because he is bogged down in a republican controlled congress and labeled as someone who is trying to overregulate your life. He would end up being a one term president and as he was leaving iran would be forcing the us to make tough decisions regarding involvement at the bequest of israel.

You may be saying, tonka that doesnt look very good. Your right its not.

However, in a mccain presidency we are looking at four more years of large scale debt growth just as the required expenditures for entitlements are raising in mass. We dont have a better healthcare system, nor are we any closer to solving any of our energy issues, other than perhaps having more tax breaks for our auto industries to compete. The richest percent of the country continues to have the best lifestyle in the world, while the calls for privatizing social security endanger a group of people whose taxes on payroll continues to regress them slowly farther down the ladder. Economic inequality continues to worsen getting worse instead of better. The religious right continues to slowly build sway in a third straight republican presidency. Our continued stay in Iraq forces us to start to leave Afghanistan for good, dropping our stock in the eyes of the international community. We still end up having to deal with a nuclear iran, but in this case we do so by force.

I actually dont think im that alarmist in either scenario to be honest.

Though i suppose one could get more nitpicky if one liked, i think this is a decent start outlining reasons for an obama vote.

[InkL0sed]

I'd like to note that your post is nothing much more than a personal rant against Obama's character.

Let me just say that I disagree fundamentally. And not because I've been brainwashed by the media

Finally: I've already asked you to stop belittling other peoples' opinions, you can do better than that. How about responding to GT's post on actual issues?

[got tonkaed]

I'd like to note that your post is nothing much more than a personal rant against Obama's character.

Let me just say that I disagree fundamentally. And not because I've been brainwashed by the media

Finally: I've already asked you to stop belittling other peoples' opinions, you can do better than that. How about responding to GT's post on actual issues?

trouble in cc lovers paradise?

story tonight at 11

[General Mojo]

Sarah Palin is smoking hot. Enough said.

[xruan]

btw guys. I haven't read got tonkaed post yet. I'll read it and reply tomorrow or the weekend at latest. I'm trying to do hw too.

This was actually a hw assignment, and I felt like I should post it here.


InkL0sed, I have not belittled anyone's opinions before I created this thread, and we have already discussed this.

[got tonkaed]

btw guys. I haven't read got tonkaed post yet. I'll read it and reply tomorrow or the weekend at latest. I'm trying to do hw too.

This was actually a hw assignment, and I felt like I should post it here.


InkL0sed, I have not belittled anyone's opinions before I created this thread, and we have already discussed this.

lefty propaganda imo, probably not worth anyones time.

[kerntheconkerer]

Agreed. he's just some guy that can convince a few people he's good enough to be president. he has no experience at all. he hasn't even voted on a bill in the senate in his (whopping) 2 years there...

[pimpdave]

btw guys. I haven't read got tonkaed post yet. I'll read it and reply tomorrow or the weekend at latest. I'm trying to do hw too.

This was actually a hw assignment, and I felt like I should post it here.


InkL0sed, I have not belittled anyone's opinions before I created this thread, and we have already discussed this.

For homework, they make you post pictures of dudes with an obvious herpes cold sore and bad fashion sense?

And what class is that for, Political Vitriol 101, or Faulty Debate Methods 405?

[pimpdave]

Agreed. he's just some guy that can convince a few people he's good enough to be president. he has no experience at all. he hasn't even voted on a bill in the senate in his (whopping) 2 years there...

So, how do you assess Abraham Lincoln's presidency? You think he was a complete failure as a president?

I guess you would be happier had Breckinridge won in 1860, huh, what with all of his experience.

(Edited to correct spelling error)

[apey]

yay XXX
I love you more n more everyday

[Simon Viavant]

That guy. Oh and me.

Yeah, thats right, I'm 16 years old and am not yet brainwashed by the incessant media. I hate Barack Obama.

To all the high schoolers who think that Barack Obama is the messiah, take a good look at the actual facts of the Obama campaign.

Senator Barack Obama is a joke. He maybe an outsider to Washington but he's no enemy of the Daley Democratic Machine of Chicago. Obama slithered his way up the political ladder by being no more than a charismatic illusionist.

To quote Rudy Giuliani, America's mayor, "He's never run a city, he's never run a state, he's never run a business, he's never administered a payroll, he's never led people in crisis." Lets send a junior senator to the White house with little more than 4 years of legis... oh wait... he's spent most of that time in Africa or running for president. Where is the change for Illinois, Mr. Obama? Where is the dismantling of the old guard of Chicago , Mr. Obama? Oh right... there isn't any and there won't be any for America.

Obama is little more than a second Jimmy Carter who plays the race card. Nothing is new about Obama aside from the fact that his skin has slightly darker pigments than the other 43 presidents.

By no means do I say vote McCain, I was adamantly against his selection from the get go. However, when you size up both McCain and Obama, side by side and without the glitz and glamor. You see one clearly qualified man who has fought hard his whole life and one who has been given a free ticket to the top.

Obama is the epitome of America's ignorance. A vote for Obama is not a vote for progression, but regression.

This is the problem with the American political system. It's always about the canidate's character, and degenerates into petty attacks. It's never about the actual issues. I think the Parliamentary system is much better.

[pimpdave]

ps. xruan, you still rule, in my book. Except when it comes to posting about presidential candidates.

[oVo]

Ex NYC mayor and presidential wannabe Guliani is still a sleazebag,
but Sarah Palin delivered an excellent keynote speech tonight.

[black elk speaks]

yay XXX
I love you more n more everyday

you're voting Republican? you saucy wench, I had you pegged as a liberal sex kitten. Not sure why.

I have to say that Palin knocked my socks off tonight. I like her character and her voice (like someone from Fargo in office )

I liked what she was saying about how neither of the Democrats have any experience at all regarding administration. I still need to hear the debates (looking forward to that) as I am still on the fence, but I am starting to like Palin.

Did you know that she sold her States fancy jet on ebay as a part of her state reformation when she took office?

when they make the movie, I think this actress will play the role of Palin



hubba hubba

[apey]

do I really come off as an Obama lover
i need to rethink my whole personality now thanx
I hate talking politics so I am not going to!!! Just know that my vote lies with the republican party and yes ppl I am old enough to vote never have but I am registered and plan on being at the polls bright and early on election day

[gdeangel]

Agreed. he's just some guy that can convince a few people he's good enough to be president. he has no experience at all. he hasn't even voted on a bill in the senate in his (whopping) 2 years there...

So, how do you assess Abraham Lincoln's presidency? You think he was a complete failure as a president?

I guess you would be happier had Breckinridge won in 1860, huh, what with all of his experience.

(Edited to correct spelling error)

Obama is no Abraham Lincoln. And even Lincoln did not hit his stride as a leader until significantly into the war. He was generally unpopular through the last years of his first term, and, nearly without doubt, the instigating factor in the south's cession was his election as the "unknown entity". Much has been written about Lincolns mental instabilities, as well as his pragmatic nature. Undoubtedly, he was a charmer as Obama certainly is, but Lincoln was a folksy touch who connected at an individual level with people (I don't mean voters in the grass roots sense, but conventioneers and such power brokers). And although Lincoln did emerge from the Civil War a great figure of history who left an on the whole positive legacy to America, that does not mean he was the right man to elect in 1860 (remember, at the time he was a great proponent not of equal rights but of shipping off all the African Americans to Liberia). His great legacy was as much the product of the circumstances in which he governed, and his pragmatism, as well as his own skill. Obama is not selling pragmatism. He is peddling idealism.

Which leads me to the observation that Sara Palin kicked some ass in her convention speech tonight. Her words rung true with credibility of the "every American" that Obama wishes he had. What Obama really has is the credibility of the indoctrinated liberal campus student, and the privilege-seeking members of and an historically underprivileged group that has lost faith in the ability to prevail through industry and thrift (who can blame them, they probably have such a twisted view of industry and thrift with the way the economy has been run for the past 8 years that they are incapable of being thrifty and industrious even if they believed in it at one point). Noone but a member of a coveted minority could bring in $500,000 a year in salary as Michelle Obama did as a public interest fundraiser. That's more than she could have earned even if she had stayed at her big law firm in Chicago, and involves a hell of a lot less time and stress. So while the rest of us "every Americans" are chained to the next paycheck from indifferent mega-companies focused on their bottom line, tried to carve out time to kids, money for bills, and maybe save a little for those big deferred expenses, the Obama's are living what any lawyer would call "quality of life" jobs with top pay, and no doubt that there will be a place for their kids at whatever university they wish to attend, as part of a coveted minority. So we respect when someone can face the uncertainties and challenges that Sara Palin appears to have faced AND CONTINUES TO FACE, and we recognize that when, many times in the past few days, she has been tarred as "white trash" by the media and Obama's back-alley propagandists, that they use this term out of fear for what they know has the power to defeat their darling boy, and that is the common, folksy touch akin to that of Mr. Lincoln to whom you refer.

I'm calling it now - Obama will lose this election as long as Palin is not tripped up by the media (she needs to continue to tell it like it is, but avoid having a Howard Dean moment) and McCain continues to play the part of the quiet man with integrity and experience. I guaranty he will quote Regan in the debates when asked about his age, and it will bring down the house.

[OsmanPasha]

am I Obama fan- no
but see what happens when you elect gun happy full two terms in a row
do you really think we need another one

[Bones2484]

To quote Rudy Giuliani, America's mayor,

You lost me right there. Giuliani is the biggest piece of trash in "politics".

[got tonkaed]

While i cannot do anything but agree that palin's speech (while i only have the text) was a good one, especially given the spotlight she was under, allow me to offer a differing approach as to why.

1) she hit a good bunch of populism. It is not hard for her to do, as her story has a lot of the everyman (or this case everywoman or person in it). She starts off at the PTA, decides she wants to move on, and is successful and keeps going. The story sounds american, and people eat it up. Also, i think she hit populism in a way that a lot of people are going to eat up, she did it on her own, not needing to know about special interests or how to lobby because she just knew the small town goodness of the people around her.

I have no doubts about her ability to know her consititenucy or that she did do a lot of good to trim some of the fat as she hits on in her speech. She also however secured a large scale infrastructure project in a time when we do not invest in infrastructure. She has also proven to be occasionally willing to take porkish legislation when it suited the needs of the state, something she would rail against as a reformer. Theres nothing wrong with presenting an image that you can fit that is desirable, but populism always sounds good, even when its presented in its best light.

2) she preaches victory. People like hearing they are the winners, especially when times arent so great. They especially love hearing it when they are told times arent so great. Mccain does have a truly great human interest story, but dont let that confuse all of the facts. While Mccain has attempted to do a great many things, a lot of them were before he made a great change into presidential hopeful and then nominee. Mccain has done a lot of shifting in his stances and while it would be unfair to say he has sold out, he is far less of a maverick than he was at one point in time. Obviously we extoll our virtues and hide our flaws, but even i as i read the text felt i was being led a bit by the ears.

3) she creates a rather identifiable enemy and puts easy sound bites in there. The beauty of a soundbite is it doesnt take a lot of work to get. Its short to the point and easy to digest. Anyone can say raise taxes or community manager with responsibilites. I know what those things mean, i know what they entail. But that doesnt get to the numerical truth to either plan, both with some issues and both with some potential highpoints. I can sell a good picture as well, but that doesnt mean your getting anything out of it. I continue to maintain Obama's plan for the country has been far more upfront for how it will be paid for, even if it means raising taxes. Also palins description of the tax plan was obviously too short for anyone who has attempted to even look at the plans both men have suggested.

The mccain campaign has done a great job of telling us what not to like about a potential obama presidency or what we stand to lose at the cost of his inexperience. What the mccain campaign has failed to do thus far is tell us how they are planning on doing what they are doing (even so much as say a whole lot about what they are doing). A rather simple rule of democracy, its usually a good idea to pick the leader who is telling you how they are going to do what they are going to do, under the simple premise that you at least can hold them accountable to what they did or did not do. What is anyone going to say to the Mccain adminstration in two years other than you extended the tax cuts and you took on the interests groups but nothing has magically changed. What interest groups, why? to what end?

[mpjh]

Wee you all on November 6th, if you are old enough to vote. Then you can start posting more shit about how Obama won.

[oVo]

Palin's speech was excellent, even though it contained nothing new. All the self referencial remarks and 'personal accomplishments' are things that have been dominating recent news reports as people try to understand who McCain's running mate is. I have yet to hear a single "white trash" reference in any network comments about her, she's the Governor of Alaska ffs... but preaching absinence over sex education only to have a seventeen year old daughter bcome pregnant is a curious irony about her decision making. The "bridge to nowhere" got nixed, but those earmarked federal dollars were not refunded and I suppose we'll all hear what that money bought in an upcoming report.

Her political rise is certainly a great success story still in the making, but she is probably not the best person to be poking fun at Obama's experience... as she approaches two years as governor. Correct me if I'm wrong but Palin may be the only person in this election who will receive an increase in job benefits if this campaign for the White House is successful. The McCain's recently listed one of their Arizona residences if anyone of "upper middle class" is in the market for a new home or maybe it was a former residence... but I doubt the presidential salary can cover his taxes.

It still hasn't been revealled who the single source was that altered thirty plus entries on Sarah Palin's wikipedia page right before her nomination was announced. It was noted that the same source also added entries to John McCain's page.

Tossing Palin's hockey puck onto the pitch has certainly added interest to this race and even though I'm not a big fan of the parasitic nature of politics... I am looking forward to seeing how this plays out. November isn't that far off and yet this election still has a long ways to go with lots of undecided voters to be courted and swayed.